ScottGunn Posted at 2015-2-17 07:45
When I fly, and the vast majority of other experienced pilots, I am not paying attention to the sti ...

Here is a ALTERNATE way to look at what "might" have happened.   There are things (Conditions) that can knock a RC aircraft out of the air and confuse GPS so that the craft just takes off.  Please see this report on UAV Pilots & Space Weather:
http://dronephotography.weebly.c ... ilots-space-weather

Hope this helps,
Drone Video Productions LLC

RichJ53 Posted at 2015-2-17 10:49
Absolutely agree with you on this point. This needs to be fixed on the next firmware release ... p ...

I also agree. When I fly, I don't think about stick positioning. Everything is muscle memory. I am now, a bit afraid of flying the Inspire due to the fact that it might shut down while executing a complex maneuver that has the sticks in the down/inward positions.

This is the easiest quad I have ever flown. I agree that if the users has issues flying, they're better off starting with smaller more "beginner friendly" units.

Jorgehlopezc Posted at 2015-2-16 14:02
Excuse me but you are absolutely wrong because I Made it, i turned off motors midair, An aircraft  ...

So it's confirmed? You can shut down the motors mid air with the sticks in the inward/down position? That's raises a lot of concerns for me.

franknesss Posted at 2015-2-18 02:47
So it's confirmed? You can shut down the motors mid air with the sticks in the inward/down positio ...

Apparently yes...it is true.  Crazy stupid engineering in my opinion.  Hopefully they will fix it in a firmware update FAST.

ScottGunn Posted at 2015-2-18 02:58
Apparently yes...it is true.  Crazy stupid engineering in my opinion.  Hopefully they will fix it  ...

Wow, so I got really lucky flying around. At the end of my flight, I decide to push the Inspire to see what i could do. Luckily for me I didn't shut off the motors accidentally.

So it begins...trying to get support to resolve the issue.

Been calling all morning trying to get in touch with US support.  Would just say they have a high volume of callers, try back later....click.

Finally got through at around 2:20 Pm.  9 callers ahead of me...estimated wait time - 55 minutes.

Holy crap this is going to be a long, long frustrating ordeal.

TheFlyGuy Posted at 2015-2-17 19:06
What about the battery?
Maybe you had a power failure cause by an issue with one of your batteries. ...

Wasn't my 4th flight of the day, was the 4th overall flight.  Battery was fully charged and at 90% at the time of the incident.

DVPLLC Posted at 2015-2-18 01:47
Here is a ALTERNATE way to look at what "might" have happened.   There are things (Conditions) that ...

How in the world do you use this app lol!!!!!!

I had an eerily similar problem happen just last Friday. My Inspire also arrived on Wednesday. It was the 3rd or 4th flight. I did have the camera on, however. It was hovering and I was about to return the copter  - before I could, everything shut down and it fell like a rock. It was probably 30 feet in the air - two bars on the side completely broke, among a few other less noticeable items. If you crash one of these, expect damage. I bought it from Drones, Etc. and I have experienced good service from them so far. I will keep you all posted on resolution. Definitely sucks to wait two months for the Inspire to arrive and lose it to a flaw immediately.

Thanks for sharing. That's scary! I'm the type that doesn't read manuals much, I guess now I have to.

ScottGunn Posted at 2015-2-16 09:55
If you are correct, and it will cut power in mid flight 20 feet off the ground with the arms up jus ...

Hi Scott,

Mike the cat has described correctly what is in the user manual. Now before you think that this operational feature is complete lunacy, it's there for a purpose. I'm going to take a nasty unhappy path scenario if that's ok please?

Something bad has happened (no fault, no blame), but the craft is out of control and flying towards dense population, in winds where it has become completely uncontollable. There needs to be a way of forcing the motors to stop, no matter what, to force the craft to drop it into woodland / uninhabited land / or wherever is safe (I'm assuming here that the craft's vortex free descent wouldn't have saved the day because its simply far too slow at getting the aircraft down)

That's why the 'emergency' CSC facility is there.

It's perhaps a little like a real pilot's option, where sometimes you need to ditch the power to save life or property.

Switch CSC off in the App option whilst in flight? No thanks. Just be very careful learning the craft and its control systems and intellectually consider and know what you are doing.

solution.design Posted at 2015-2-18 08:11
Hi Scott,

Mike the cat has described correctly what is in the user manual. Now before you think th ...

There may be a reason for it to exist, such as the scenario you described.  Having the CSC opration connected to the flight sticks, however, is still lunacy.  If CSC needs to be available during flight with the arms raised, it needs to be triggered in a way that is not accidentally done during normal flight using the sticks.  The way it is setup now is completely ridiculous.

If you are trying the "safety" approach to defend it, I think your defense stands on pretty shaky grounds.  It would be FAR more likely that someone would accidentally trigger the CSC while flying - causing possible injury and property damage - than the scenario you came up with.

Solution?  Make the CSC available but not where it could be accidentally triggered, AKA NOT ON THE STICKS!  Make it, for example, where you have to hold down the two back buttons and the RTH button and hold all three for a second.  I have not argued the need for CSC, only how it is activated.  The control sticks is the absolute last place it should be, and I believe anyone with flight experience (and without an agenda) would agree.  

I have over 39 flights now and am curious in what flight condition or what would you be trying to do, to put those sticks in that configuration? CSC that is

Mike

svencool Posted at 2015-2-18 09:28
I have over 39 flights now and am curious in what flight condition or what would you be trying to do ...

Read through the thread, it was discussed a bit earlier.

Ok I've just reread the thread as you suggested and I didn't see anything in there telling me why the sticks were in that position or what you were trying to do. All I seen to to quote you was

" Basically I will have to revert back to flying amateur moves to make sure I don't accidentally shut down power."

Maybe you can shed some light on it for me then? Was just asking a question?

svencool Posted at 2015-2-18 09:28
I have over 39 flights now and am curious in what flight condition or what would you be trying to do ...

Hi Svencool,

The argument or assertion is: In the many positions that are possible during flight where the operator is paying more attention to aircraft orientation than the exact position of both sticks...an accident can happen. CSC could be invoked accidentally.

This could happen with a new user who was nervous or an experienced user who was maneuvering at a fast pace.

Some could argue that the more appropriate question to ask might be: Why even have the potential for such error?  Is it at all necessary?

Dan

daninperth Posted at 2015-2-18 09:56
Hi Svencool,

The argument or assertion is; In the many positions that are possible during flight w ...

Amen brother!


let me add to that comment by saying that if you are still flying in beginner mode where the sticks response is greatly reduced, you don't even have to be flying at a fast pace.  It is very very easy to hit 100% on the sticks doing basic moves.

Maybe the CSC function is an issue that needs to be addressed industry-wide.  From what I see with my other multirotors, the Phantoms and Align m690l hexacopter also utilizes the same procedure to start or stop the motor.  These are pretty much leaders in RC copter manufacturing so any changes will help the entire hobby.

Hi Dan,

I'm not here to argue how many positions those sticks could be in, my heli before the Inspire was a Blade 450x which was a ton of fun to fly!!! I was trying to learn something from this post and if its ok with you I would like to ask my own questions. Thanks for offering to do it for me!!!

As far as the potential for error! There will always be monsters lurking in the dark. Can there be a better solution? Maybe but until then I have trained myself that if that dark day does come where I have to put it down I know how to do it. But it has to be something that can be done easily and fast as your fingers are almost always on those sticks. One solution holding them down for a couple secs like the RTH button maybe....

Mike

svencool Posted at 2015-2-18 09:46
Ok I've just reread the thread as you suggested and I didn't see anything in there telling me why th ...

sorry was not trying to be rude, I just had responded earlier to that same question.  Sometimes the DJI forum scrambles these posts on threads.  

post is on 2-17 at 7:45

I just explained one of many situations where that stick combination would come into play.  When shooting video, I can think of many times while dodging trees and obstacles and keeping the camera panned at the target it could happen.  Flying backwards is normal, flying to the left while turning the craft to the right is a basic move to keep camera on target.  Dropping altitude for the right shot or avoiding an obstacle?  you just cut the motors and crashed your $3,000 aircraft, hopefully without seriously injuring anyone...


Also, the picture posted of the manual earlier in this thread shows the CSC is tripped with both sticks down and in either the inward or outward position.  If this is the case then add twice as many maneuvers that can crash it.

ScottGunn Posted at 2015-2-18 10:16
sorry was not trying to be rude, I just had responded earlier to that same question.  Sometimes th ...

Ahhh ok I understand where your coming from now.... Sometimes I can be a bone head and have to ask again lol..... As I didn't get it the first time Right I always used the inner position and wasn't aware that it could be point out as well.....

Mike

dundee Posted at 2015-2-16 13:50
2015-2-16 13:47

sounds great now that I know what happened. Sounds like a simple and costly mistake, Too bad, I feel for him.

svencool Posted at 2015-2-18 10:19
Ahhh ok I understand where your coming from now.... Sometimes I can be a bone head and have to ask  ...

No problem, I didn't mean to come across that way.  When I re-read my comment I saw that I sounded a bit like an a-hole.

When mine lost power, however, it was in a hover not moving.  The sticks were not being used, it just lost power and fell straight to the ground.  The whole CSC issue has just come up during the thread and become a hot topic..

It's all good Scott!!! I just wanna bring positive things to the forum and like everyone else using it to learn from others! And it does suck!!!!! when someone's inspire gets injured Mann that blows I couldn't imagine and that's part of the reason I haven't flown over water as of yet as it would be gone and nothing to send back for repair....

svencool Posted at 2015-2-18 10:15
Hi Dan,

I'm not here to argue how many positions those sticks could be in, my heli before the Inspi ...

Sorry Mike, I did not mean to offend you.  The example of what some may think the question should be was given in a rhetorical sense.

Dan

andi.witech Posted at 2015-2-15 20:04
@Fawkem911
This is what armyturtle mean but it has been like this on every drone from DJI, so this i ...

I had this happen with my Phantom after an update. Fortunately I was on the ground and pulled the left st, left stick only.right stick was in the center/neutral position. when I pulled the left stick all of the way down the motors stopped entirely.

rodger Posted at 2015-2-18 10:30
I had this happen with my Phantom after an update. Fortunately I was on the ground and pulled the  ...

Well I can see that isn't not an isolated incident. I wonder if DJI moved the CSC trigger/function to both buttons being push in at the same time and held. The button to trigger video and the button to trigger picture taking? Your fingers are still there and that shouldn't cause anything else bad to happen would it?

Mike

And it's all good Dan

CSC followed by pressing C1 ?

After 5 hours on the phone today, I finally got hold of customer service and got the RMA emailed to me.  I sadly packed away my Inspire and said goodbye.  I pray that none of you here have to go through the process of getting an RMA from DJI...it is not pleasant at all.  The guy I finally talked to was friendly and helpful, the process of actually getting a human on the phone is not.

I will update the thread with new info as I get it as to what they find that caused the crash after the diagnose it.

Just me ranting about the DJI customer support below this line.  READ IF YOU NEED TO GET AN INSPIRE RMA!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, so you call the customer support line.  They give you three options:

Press 1 if you have QUESTIONS about the inspire
Press 2 if you have questions about any other DJI product
Press 3 if you need REPAIRS on ANY DJI product.

So I press 3...right?  Ok...estimated wait time to talk to a rep...47 minutes.  Crap.  After listening to more elevator music than ever in my life, about 40 minutes later it's my turn.  Explained what I needed to do, and Yep you guessed it, "I'm sorry sir but you need to speak with the Inspire specialists...please select 1 at the options menu".  FML

Start all over...press 1.  "We are experiencing high volume at this time.  Try again later". Click.  Dial tone.  3 hours straight of this just trying to get through.  When I finally do..."you are currently number ten in line, estimated wait time...59 minutes."

Moral of the story is...DONT PRESS OPTION 3!!!!

dundee Posted at 2015-2-18 11:01
CSC followed by pressing C1 ?

I like that idea...at least add a separate button click to the sticks...or the OPTION of allowing pilots to set it that way.  Win win

ScottGunn Posted at 2015-2-18 02:58
Apparently yes...it is true.  Crazy stupid engineering in my opinion.  Hopefully they will fix it  ...

I have replied before and I will again here. You have to do a full double stick manoeuvre and to HOLD it for a few seconds to 'accidentally' shut down. You would not normally go so far out with sticks with any flight move and certainly for not that long unless you had a motor co-ordination problem.

If you are really such and aggressive and advanced flyer, perhaps a racing drone would be more appropriate craft.

I have had a P2 fly into a tree before and the motors revved up to full power. I used the CSC to shut them down but not early enough for the ESCs to burn out.

Now if say, your craft got entangled in flight, you definitely need to shut it down. A double manoeuvre rather than a triple or quad (e.g. the transformer maneuver) would take more time and that time could be critical in an emergency.

If your are so insistent, why don't you get a specially programmed craft. It will be a matter of time before DJI releases SDK capability.

I can assure you many other  posters reading this blog who also have safety in mind find the current arrangement perfectly fine.

solution.design Posted at 2015-2-18 08:11
Hi Scott,

Mike the cat has described correctly what is in the user manual. Now before you think th ...

Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

As I mentioned in a recent  post, unhappy users are welcome to reprogram the bird when the SDK kit for the Inspire is eventually released.  

For those of us who fly with other DJI craft, this CSC move is used to fire up the bird and shut it down across all their flight systems.

Given the widespread use of DJI made NAZA flight controllers, other manufacturer's aircraft probably have the same standard. What might the implications of having a special flight control instruction set for one bird?

The usage of derogatory terms like 'lunacy', 'stupid' etc, is not appreciated. We can respect your point of view and concern and of course, nobody wants an accident. Being rude rarely gets the job done even if the suggestion is a good one.
Far more accidents can be prevented by flyers reading manuals before flying than by changing flight control instruction sets.

At the very least, fly a simulator to test different manoeuvres. The inbuilt one in the Inspire works well.

Mike-the-cat Posted at 2015-2-18 13:17
Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

As I mentioned in a recent  post, unhappy users are welcome  ...

As a first time DJI owner, I have never seen a system such as CSC be controlled by the flight sticks while in flight.  I did read the manual, and flew the simulator but I guess I missed the small comment under the stick diagram warning of in flight CSC.  It really should be more prominent in the manual.  Maybe the CSC issue should be a different post as it got a bit off topic here.

I do think it is great that it was brought up, as numerous owners have posted that they were shocked to learn about it.  At the very least talking about it here has enlightened many people of the risk.  

I have never called anyone any names or tried to insult in this thread.  I expressed my feelings towards the way the CSC is programmed, which I have every right to do.  The words stupid and lunacy are the best words I can think of to describe the way I view it.  It would be rude if I was calling someone stupid, but I never did.  And from the responses here, except for yours and 2-3 others, it seems the vast majority of owners share my concerns.  Why would you be against the option of allowing owners who are not happy with the current setupto add a third input to activate CSC?

Seeing most of your posts, it is obvious you fiercely defend every aspect of this product, and that is fine.  But discussions about potential flaws is how things get improved, and a forum is a place for everyone to discuss the issues they have.  If you are satisfied with the Inspire as is, that is great but you are just one owner.

I apologize if any of my statements offended you, it was not the intention.  Nor was a mid flight CSC issue the topic for this thread.  My incident happened while in a hover, no input on the sticks, and it fell straight to the ground.  If I had been moving the sticks to the position of CSC the aircraft would have moved in those directions before CSC was triggered.

Don't want to sound like a jerk but you should have either:

A.) Bought the 2nd controller, made a friend, pass the second controller to your new friend, get the shots you want without doing crazy aerobatic maneuvers.
B.) Kept the extra money, made a friend, pass the tablet/phone to your new friend, get the shots you want without doing crazy aerobatic maneuvers.

Also, for what it's worth, I thoroughly (obsessively) researched this whole industry for several months before pulling the trigger on buying a Phantom 2 Vision as my first quad. I must have read the manual at least 4 times before flying, and also watched all of the tutorial videos. I also bought a Hubsan X4 quad to practice with.

mindcontrols Posted at 2015-2-19 07:11
Don't want to sound like a jerk but you should have either:

A.) Bought the 2nd controller, made a f ...

Once again...THIS IS NOT THE REASON MINE CRASHED!  The CSC debate is a separate issue that was brought up during the discussion.  

And I do have a two controller model.  I just don't believe any owners should have to worry about this happening when it could easily be fixed with a firmware update allowing modification if they wished to do so.

ScottGunn Posted at 2015-2-19 03:30
As a first time DJI owner, I have never seen a system such as CSC be controlled by the flight stic ...

OK man, we are cool. I don't think posters have a particularly strong bias to DJI - it just makes sense to have some things standard (e.g. Mode 1 / Mode 2). If the kill switch saves someone's face or head at the expense of craft damage, its worth it. I think you might appreciate this if you fly more. In an emergency, you need to act reflexly and it really helps if there are cross-platform flight manoeuvre sets.

BTW, others have criticised the feature as well, eliciting similar responses to those you have read in this post:
http://multirotorforums.com/thre ... -of-altitude.19047/

ScottGunn Posted at 2015-2-19 07:20
Once again...THIS IS NOT THE REASON MINE CRASHED!  The CSC debate is a separate issue that was bro ...

Thread was too long, didn't read. Was just addressing the CSC topic that was brought up.

(and yes, I see the irony here in the not reading part.)

Mike-the-cat Posted at 2015-2-19 21:12
OK man, we are cool. I don't think posters have a particularly strong bias to DJI - it just makes  ...

I understand where you are coming from as well.  This being an aeria video platform makes it much less likely to encounter the sticks being accidentally put into the CSC position.  Just personally bothers me greatly to know it can possibly happen, mostly a piece of mind thing especially after mine powered down mid flight for reasons unknown.

I again apologize for upsetting anyone with the way I expressed my disapproval with the current CSC setup.

mindcontrols Posted at 2015-2-19 21:57
Thread was too long, didn't read. Was just addressing the CSC topic that was brought up.

(and yes, ...

Ha!

It's all good, it is a long thread and it jumps back and forth between topics.  I do the same thing all the time.

ScottGunn Posted at 2015-2-16 07:16
It is some good info posted on the subject, hopefully all of it isn't the correct info as it shoul ...

I cant tell you how frustrated we all are to see this has happened please keep us posted as we wish you a fast recovery from this fubar situation..