I'll start this off by saying that I really do like the majority of DJI's equipment...in fact I've supported them for many years with my finances. Even right now I have an S1000, an Inspire Pro Raw, a Ronin M and just recently purchased a Mavic Pro (more for fun than anything). I use their equipment for work all around the world and for the most part am highly satisfied.

That being said, building the Mavic without an ability to manually turn on ATTI mode I believe is irresponsible and frankly unsafe. I realize that they are trying to dumb down their equipment so that everyone can use it but this one is just rediculous. If you REALLY are that scared of your customers crashing their drones then just make it super difficult to get out of "beginning mode." Something that you have to physically program in DJI assistant or the like.

I am honestly more nervous about flying this little toy than I am any other gear knowing that at no point can I be fully in control. When I first started flying first gen Phantoms years ago I lost one in GPS mode as I had no idea how to even flip into manual mode. We all know the story, one moment you're in control, the next it's just gone. I learned my lesson after that and have had to save multiple other UAVs when the GPS gets scrambled. So what happens when this happens on the Mavic? I understand that the tech has come a long way from first gen but still...my computer is a whole lot faster and better than the one I had 5 years ago and I still sometimes have to restart it after it crashes.

My point is not wether or not the GPS will get scrambled on this little UAV but WHEN. And when it does, and I can't switch into manual mode on my own because "DJI knows better than the human piloting" what are your suggestions? Just laugh it off and hope it lands itself in a field away from humans or buildings?

This is absolutely irresponsible and I STRONGLY request, DJI, if you care about your customers at all, please give us an update to over ride GPS. With all these controlling updates you've suddenly implemented lately this one single problem might just be the straw that sends me looking elsewhere. I have around $30k of your equipment to sell that could jumpstart me pretty easily over at Freefly. Stop selling us equipment that you still own.

I absolutely agree. I'm coming from a little bit different background here as I've flown mostly race quads, with my "smartest" (and largest) multi being a TBS Discovery with the DJI Naza. The fact that I always have an electronic nanny pinching the sticks makes me nervous. This is how someone is going to get hurt, and overall this is what will negatively impact the community; the pilot not having absolute control over their equipment.

I think most people will agree with you having a separate switch for Atti mode should have been included.
Having said that Atti on Mavic is automatic and I have experience this it is quick to react and can be flown without much difficulty if you have flown Atti before and understand how it works and the need to use sticks full on to counteract wind movements and your own stick movements, as soon as it picks up gps again Atti mode goes. But Atti is there and it works like Atti should.

My problem with it is many of Mavic pilots have never used it and have no way of practicing on Mavic , so when signal is lost they don't realise that stick movements need to be bigger in order to control Mavic and many have crashed or been lost.

Sometimes it would help if dji came out and explained there reasons behind this exclusion. But certainly for me it works fine and is active immediately when gps is lost.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-6-22 12:13
I think most people will agree with you having a separate switch for Atti mode should have been included.
Having said that Atti on Mavic is automatic and I have experience this it is quick to react and can be flown without much difficulty if you have flown Atti before and understand how it works and the need to use sticks full on to counteract wind movements and your own stick movements, as soon as it picks up gps again Atti mode goes. But Atti is there and it works like Atti should.

I totally get what you're saying here but my concern isn't about the automatic ATTI (That happens with all DJI UAVs when they lose satellite), my concern is when the GPS stays on but gets sgrambled and all of a sudden starts following something else. This happens from time to time in congested areas or ones with frequency blockers like old buildings (LED paint) and whatnot. Before the only way to make the UAV snap back to listening to your controls and not some rogue GPS signal that is no longer connected to your radio was to physically snap it into ATTI or manual mode. My Inspire Pro RAW would have left me in Jakarta Indonesia if I couldn't have quickly done this (Yes I had police permission to be there). My S1000 would have left me in rural China could I not have done this...I've even had this happen in Joshua Tree in the States. It's a real thing that really happens and now we have no way to over ride the system. So stupid.

I do agree with what you're saying though that now if this is someones first drone and they have no idea about non GPS they are going to for sure freak.

Nothing is working "fine" if it can switch between GPS and ATTI at will.  Control speeds change and the whole experience is scary.  You are NOT in control if it switches on its own.  This is the one thing that is "suicidal" on this drone.

fans97344b8f Posted at 2017-6-22 14:41
I totally get what you're saying here but my concern isn't about the automatic ATTI (That happens with all DJI UAVs when they lose satellite), my concern is when the GPS stays on but gets sgrambled and all of a sudden starts following something else. This happens from time to time in congested areas or ones with frequency blockers like old buildings (LED paint) and whatnot. Before the only way to make the UAV snap back to listening to your controls and not some rogue GPS signal that is no longer connected to your radio was to physically snap it into ATTI or manual mode. My Inspire Pro RAW would have left me in Jakarta Indonesia if I couldn't have quickly done this (Yes I had police permission to be there). My S1000 would have left me in rural China could I not have done this...I've even had this happen in Joshua Tree in the States. It's a real thing that really happens and now we have no way to over ride the system. So stupid.

I do agree with what you're saying though that now if this is someones first drone and they have no idea about non GPS they are going to for sure freak.

I have seen some here report that problem, but I've never had it, as I said my experience of drone switching to Atti is same for me as switching to Atti and aircraft is very responsive straight off the bat, but I am used to flying in Atti . But as I said it should be on all aircraft option to switch.

I too wish I could practice flying in ATTi mode, but like Hallmark said, it'll be a rare day where this drones fails. My 30 hours of flying my Mavic I've only had once compass error that forced me to fight with it,   But it was only a 15 second drama and was over in no time.

I agree That Dji should put ATTi in fly Mode menu. Every one with drone should learn how to fly without GPS First

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-6-22 12:13
I think most people will agree with you having a separate switch for Atti mode should have been included.
Having said that Atti on Mavic is automatic and I have experience this it is quick to react and can be flown without much difficulty if you have flown Atti before and understand how it works and the need to use sticks full on to counteract wind movements and your own stick movements, as soon as it picks up gps again Atti mode goes. But Atti is there and it works like Atti should.

most people don't care and will be happy if they never have to see ATTI. and i guess that is about 95% of the mavic owners.

I agree 100% about needing the ability to be in control. I don't want a computer deciding my fate!

Totally agree. I have flown non GPS quads and other RC aerial equipment and it is quite satisfying and after a while easy to do. But as you say at the top of this thread the real problem comes in the 'surprise' - one second you are flying a stable machine, the next it is drifting with the wind and you need to be on your toes.. this happened for the first time in 6 months on my Mavic and luckily I was in a clear space - you can see it about here on the video as it loses Sats and goes into ATTI for no reason for 15 + seconds

UCBarkeeper Posted at 2017-6-23 03:29
most people don't care and will be happy if they never have to see ATTI. and i guess that is about 95% of the mavic owners.

I do agree, and I don't really have any worries about how the Mavic works as it is,

Reading all of this, it also makes it not possible to use a Mavic to do the BMFA's A cert as you need to do all the flying in Atti mode. Thus I have to buy a second quad just to pass this.

Also in Belgium you cannot use your Mavic to pass your drone pilot exam because of this.  How can you call this product a Mavic Pro and not include something as basic as ATTI mode.  Anyone wanting to use this drone professionally and that still has to pass the exam has to do so with another drone ...

ephektz Posted at 2017-6-22 09:38
I absolutely agree. I'm coming from a little bit different background here as I've flown mostly race quads, with my "smartest" (and largest) multi being a TBS Discovery with the DJI Naza. The fact that I always have an electronic nanny pinching the sticks makes me nervous. This is how someone is going to get hurt, and overall this is what will negatively impact the community; the pilot not having absolute control over their equipment.

I agree, same here learned to fly race quads FPV long before I bought any DJI equipment, I only use the Mavic when I want a low noise flight, bought the 5.5" Crystal Sky for the sole purpose of being able to connect my Fat Shark glasses to the HDMI output on the CS and always use them if I am going out of VLOS should a situation arise, I have a P3P & P4P that I have much more confidence in when flying long missions.

This has been brought up many times to deaf ears.  DJI will never respond to this.

Hi I'm a new drone owner. Can someone please explain why it's important to be able to fly without a GPS, and instead in ATTI mode?

honestly I would not risk flying mavic, 1400$ drone without gps! a gust of wind can suddenly snap it against an object, while this would be instantly impeded by the gps controller! I would try to fly without gps with a  80$ drone ... to train or gain experience ... my opinion

rshah921 Posted at 2017-11-2 07:02
Hi I'm a new drone owner. Can someone please explain why it's important to be able to fly without a GPS, and instead in ATTI mode?

The importance is that if you are ever unlucky enough to lose gps, your Mavic will enter Atti mode it will hold its current altitude but not position , the effect will be that Mavic will drift on the wind and must be controlled by pilot , it can be tricky if your in a strong to moderate wind to fly your Mavic to safety.

Preventing this from happening by flying in good environments with good gps reception always keeping your Mavic in vision line of sight VLOS.
Many will buy cheap small drones $50 with no gps to practice in the advent of this happening, they are also great fun and with prop guards you can fly indoors.

rshah921 Posted at 2017-11-2 07:02
Hi I'm a new drone owner. Can someone please explain why it's important to be able to fly without a GPS, and instead in ATTI mode?

Can someone please explain why it's important to be able to fly without a GPS, and instead in ATTI mode?

For most people it isn't.

As a couple of people have mentioned, some European countries apparently require demonstrating proficiency in ATTI mode to obtain a given certification / license. For example, I believe that's the case in the U.K. to get a PfCO (roughly equivalent to a 107 certification in the U.S.), though Hallmark or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Others would like user-selectable ATTI to be able to fly indoors in places where GPS is spotty but not completely blocked, as having the Mavic spontaneously switch between ATTI and GPS can cause bad things to happen (e.g., unsolicited RTH). This is certainly another legitimate reason to want it, but the truth is that few people have access to indoor spaces large enough to safely fly in with or without ATTI mode. As Hallmark mentioned above, there are also outdoor situations -- such as flying into a gorge -- where you may lose GPS and wind up in ATTI mode. As with flying indoors, that's a legitimate scenario where a user-selectable ATTI mode would be useful, but again is one most people won't encounter.

Another reason that's often mentioned -- but that has little validity in my opinion -- is the theory that being experienced flying in ATTI may save the aircraft in certain situations. While I don't claim that would never be that case, I can say that I don't recall analyzing even a single crash where better ATTI mode skills would probably have saved the aircraft. Admittedly it's something of a chicken-and-egg situation: if the Mavic did have a user-selectable ATTI mode I probably would have seen such cases, but it doesn't and I haven't.

In any case, what's clear is that the omission of ATTI from the Mavic wasn't just a bug or an oversight by DJI, which obviously has the ability to allow the Mavic to fly in ATTI mode but has chosen not to for one reason or another. I suspect that it's because they fear it would result in more losses, but that's just speculation on my part.

rshah921 Posted at 2017-11-2 07:02
Hi I'm a new drone owner. Can someone please explain why it's important to be able to fly without a GPS, and instead in ATTI mode?

A number of reasons. One is that that something may go wrong in GPS mode and the Mavic may then actively try to fly off. It's great to have the ability to quickly switch to ATTI mode and have complete control. That said I have never had any issues like that with DJI equipment but it *can* happen.  I have had this happen with non-DJI drone and quickly switching to the equivalent of ATTI mode prevented a crash.

DJI engineers: I have a suggestion. I understand that you don't want novices, accidentally enabling ATTI mode. How about putting an option into the menus where someone must go out of their way to enable it. Another way would be to make ATTI mode an option for one of the buttons (like a long hold on C1).

WolfgangStiller Posted at 2017-11-2 10:28
A number of reasons. One is that that something may go wrong in GPS mode and the Mavic may then actively try to fly off. It's great to have the ability to quickly switch to ATTI mode and have complete control. That said I have never had any issues like that with DJI equipment but it *can* happen.  I have had this happen with non-DJI drone and quickly switching to the equivalent of ATTI mode prevented a crash.

One [reason for wanting to be able to practice with a user-selectable ATTI mode] is that that something may go wrong in GPS mode and the Mavic may then actively try to fly off.

That scenario is what I was referring to in the second-to-last paragraph of my previous post. The trouble is that cases where that happens aren't the same as true ATTI mode at all but something I call BATTI mode, which seems to be most commonly caused by taking off from a location with a strong geomagnetic distortion. I've flown the Mavic both in true ATTI mode (intentionally) and BATTI mode (unintentionally) and they aren't the same at all despite both being reported by the app as "ATTI". That causes confusion because people think that ATTI and BATTI are the same and assume that practicing with the former would help when the latter occurs, but in my opinion that's not the case.

As you mentioned, when BATTI mode is triggered you aren't just fighting the wind and the Mavic's momentum (as in ATTI mode) but competing with the FC for control of the aircraft (it will "actively try to fly off"); they're very different things. Note that I'm not arguing against user-selectable ATTI mode on the Mavic: I'm just saying that it isn't likely to help when / if BATTI is triggered.

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-11-2 10:32
One [reason for wanting to be able to practice with a user-selectable ATTI mode] is that that something may go wrong in GPS mode and the Mavic may then actively try to fly off.

That scenario is what I was referring to in the second-to-last paragraph of my previous post. The trouble is that cases where that happens aren't the same as true ATTI mode at all but something I call BATTI mode, which seems to be most commonly caused by taking off from a location with a strong geomagnetic distortion. I've flown the Mavic both in true ATTI mode (intentionally) and BATTI mode (unintentionally) and they aren't the same at all despite both being reported by the app as "ATTI". That causes confusion because people think that ATTI and BATTI are the same and assume that practicing with the former would help when the latter occurs, but in my opinion that's not the case.

Good point. And that's why we need the ability to take control in the more basic ATTI mode.

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-11-2 09:37
Can someone please explain why it's important to be able to fly without a GPS, and instead in ATTI mode?

For most people it isn't.

Your correct you need to complete one section of exam in Atti mode from take off to landing same for UK and Ireland , indeed when I completed mine a guy in front of me done his whole exam in Atti mode flying inspire 1, he had to complete two tasks in gps but the rest he completed in Atti mode, so no pressure on me being next up.

WolfgangStiller Posted at 2017-11-2 10:28
A number of reasons. One is that that something may go wrong in GPS mode and the Mavic may then actively try to fly off. It's great to have the ability to quickly switch to ATTI mode and have complete control. That said I have never had any issues like that with DJI equipment but it *can* happen.  I have had this happen with non-DJI drone and quickly switching to the equivalent of ATTI mode prevented a crash.

Oh got it. So as of now the pilot cannot switch to ATTI mode mid-flight correct? How exactly can you use ATTI mode currently?

Thank you!

rshah921 Posted at 2017-11-3 07:59
Oh got it. So as of now the pilot cannot switch to ATTI mode mid-flight correct? How exactly can you use ATTI mode currently?

Thank you!

You can't initiate ATTI mode on the Mavic. It will automatically enter that mode if it loses GPS fix or has issues making it think GPS is unreliable (i.e. compass shows errors).  This causes problems for pilots who find them selves in ATTI mode but aren't prepared to fly the Mavic that way.

WolfgangStiller Posted at 2017-11-6 06:48
You can't initiate ATTI mode on the Mavic. It will automatically enter that mode if it loses GPS fix or has issues making it think GPS is unreliable (i.e. compass shows errors).  This causes problems for pilots who find them selves in ATTI mode but aren't prepared to fly the Mavic that way.

Got it, thank you! Is it much different to fly ATTI vs gps mode? As in anything drastically different where I can do something wrong? I'm still reading the manual but just wondering.

"In any case, what's clear is that the omission of ATTI from the Mavic wasn't just a bug or an oversight by DJI, which obviously has the ability to allow the Mavic to fly in ATTI mode but has chosen not to for one reason or another. I suspect that it's because they fear it would result in more losses, but that's just speculation on my part."

I agree, when flying "Toy", "Intermediate" & "Racing class" drones the intermediate and race quads are much more powerful than any DJI drone I have encountered, with adjustable parameters such as "angle of attack (Pitch), larger degree of sensitivity, and more powerful motors ect. I have a couple of 250mm / 4S class quads and I have flown them in winds > 30mph in "Horizon" (which holds horizontal axis to level but not altitude or position) AKA "Atti" mode, and they just power through it. Mavics & Phantoms just don't have the power. Probably a smart move on DJI's part as many new owners are not all that familiar with the characteristics and physics associated with white knuckled flying

rshah921 Posted at 2017-11-6 07:27
Got it, thank you! Is it much different to fly ATTI vs gps mode? As in anything drastically different where I can do something wrong? I'm still reading the manual but just wondering.

It can be a challenge because the drone will now be more affected by the wind and up/down drafts. It requires a lot more work on the sticks.  If you haven't already, practice with a drone that can fly without GPS mode.

Oh, that sad, i just bought mavic pro and somehow i was thinking that it should have manual mode with all sensors off ((.
I have some experience with RC helicopter and that was not easy compared to it quads feels like rock solid, and manual mode should not inflict too much problem even with novice, who could climbe up and activate manual mode just to train and if anything goes wrong switch back to gps.