Hi All,

Before the flight, I did the calibration and wait until it get 8 GPS signal. After 59 second and while moving forward, it simply turned off at Battery 87% and then the screen show "Signal lost" at 53m height and 34m distance away from me. Please noted I fly this flight with remote control. No warning messages showing up on screen for this flight. I am not able to recover it as it fell into the river. I submit my case to DJI Support and it is now 2 weeks without any feedback. I am lucky that at least it did not fall on someone heads or cars. I saw a lot of similar case report to DJI but it seem like no official statement from DJI yet.

Was this with the latest firmware on your Spark/battery?

fans5d9349b7 Posted at 2017-7-28 21:06
Was this with the latest firmware on your Spark/battery?

No, this happens 2 weeks ago

DoraeMonZ Posted at 2017-7-28 21:08
No, this happens 2 weeks ago

Ok, sorry for your loss. There has been a firmware update since this problem was found. Mine did the same as yours 2 weeks ago, but over a grassy field. I was just wondering if your issue was with the new firmware or not.

fans5d9349b7 Posted at 2017-7-28 21:11
Ok, sorry for your loss. There has been a firmware update since this problem was found. Mine did the same as yours 2 weeks ago, but over a grassy field. I was just wondering if your issue was with the new firmware or not.

I hope that the update will fix the power off issue.
I am very lucky that it fell into the river. If it fell on someone heads or cars, it can be a serious issue.

Why did u calibrate? Did it tell u too? U are not supoosed to calibrate unless app prompts u. This is in the manual

$gambino$ Posted at 2017-7-28 21:26
Why did u calibrate? Did it tell u too? U are not supoosed to calibrate unless app prompts u. This is in the manual

Yes, the app ask my to calibrate before the flight

Sorry to hear about this case, had you sent the drone back for repair? Could you please provide me with your case number or ticket number so I can check more info for this?

As said the autor of topic 2 times, his drone fell into the river.

Anyones know if some spark fell of the sky after .500 update?

DJI would not help, most of us have to pay for the repairing cost or claim the refresh care.

DJI Thor Posted at 2017-7-29 00:44
Sorry to hear about this case, had you sent the drone back for repair? Could you please provide me with your case number or ticket number so I can check more info for this?

I already send my case number to your PM. Please help follow up.
I am not able to recover it as it fell into the river

Same thing also happened to me last week before the new firmware updates...Once fell from ~5m over a beach as it was taking off, the other while indoors. Both times power just cut off. I'm just lucky that my Spark was not high up and close by when these happened. So far have not had any problems like these on the new firmware updates, except for multiple times of having signal lost then reconnecting :/

DoraeMonZ Posted at 2017-7-29 08:12
I already send my case number to your PM. Please help follow up.
I am not able to recover it as it fell into the river

Got it. I had checked the case and escalated the process. Hope we can sort it out quickly. Please wait patiently.

mzak Posted at 2017-7-29 21:55
Same thing also happened to me last week before the new firmware updates...Once fell from ~5m over a beach as it was taking off, the other while indoors. Both times power just cut off. I'm just lucky that my Spark was not high up and close by when these happened. So far have not had any problems like these on the new firmware updates, except for multiple times of having signal lost then reconnecting :/

Please be careful. At least, it my luck that it did not fall on someone heads...

DJI Thor Posted at 2017-7-30 19:57
Got it. I had checked the case and escalated the process. Hope we can sort it out quickly. Please wait patiently.

Hi DJI Thor,

It's more than 2 weeks and my patiently is almost run out.
I will post this issue on the biggest social board on Thailand and make everyone aware of this issue and how DJI does not care about their customer by tomorrow if there is no feedback from DJI.

Thank you,
Piyavut

After I got my result back from DJI Support, below is what they said:

For your claimed case CAS-796810-V3K3D2, we have already finished the analysis, and the result is as follows:

1. The aircraft worked in GPS mode, and responded to RC command actively;
2. At t=00:57, h=53 meters, d=33.6 meters, the aircraft flew forward after the pilot pushed pitch stick forward, then flight record ended;
3. Disconnected point: 13.6869478 100.5109749.

With the record ended without any sign of abnormality, we could not verify what happened afterwards.

I try to explain to them that the flight record end because my Spark just power off by itself at 87% batter and fell down into the river.
Below is what they reply without any care about their product error.

Thanks for getting back to us.

We are terribly sorry for your loss, and we also want to figure out that reason of the incident, and what happened afterwards. However as the record ended, the cause is inconclusive from the existing flight record. It is not that the engineers are incapable or we are unwilling to, however the flight file from the dji go app didn't record it.

And for your case, there was no product malfunction found before the record was cut off. You claim that the aircraft suddenly power off by itself, is also couldn't verified from the record. Piyavut, we do understand that it’s difficult to accept the result. However according to our warranty policy, we do could not get a replacement for you based on the analysis result.

Thanks for your understanding. Have a nice day.


Best Regards,

Evelyn
DJI Tech Support
http://www.dji.com/


This is how DJI taking care of their customer and handle their bad product.

mzak Posted at 2017-7-29 21:55
Same thing also happened to me last week before the new firmware updates...Once fell from ~5m over a beach as it was taking off, the other while indoors. Both times power just cut off. I'm just lucky that my Spark was not high up and close by when these happened. So far have not had any problems like these on the new firmware updates, except for multiple times of having signal lost then reconnecting :/

did you exchange new spark?

DoraeMonZ Posted at 2017-8-3 21:56
After I got my result back from DJI Support, below is what they said:

For your claimed case CAS-796810-V3K3D2, we have already finished the analysis, and the result is as follows:

We are sincerely sorry for this case, Evelyn, I'll check and confirm with our engineers again. Just to verify, was there any obstacles in front of the drone before it fell into the river?

DJI Thor Posted at 2017-8-5 03:06
We are sincerely sorry for this case, Evelyn, I'll check and confirm with our engineers again. Just to verify, was there any obstacles in front of the drone before it fell into the river?

There is no any obstacles.
As it mention many times, it just lost it power at 87% batter and fell down!!!

That why the record end. There is no record about the error and DJI just do nothing about it.
There are lot of report in this forum and also on news but DJI just ignore about it and said "the record ended without any sign of abnormality, we could not verify what happened afterwards."

This is how DJI taking care of their customer? Just say sorry and ignore this power lost issue?

https://forum.dji.com/forum.php? ... p;page=10#pid898853

How many Spark will need to fall down until DJI issue this as a serious case?

I am very lucky that at least it is not falling on some heads!!!

DoraeMonZ Posted at 2017-8-5 10:49
There is no any obstacles.
As it mention many times, it just lost it power at 87% batter and fell down!!!

As I had checked the data and confirmed by our engineers, please refer to screenshot below, the accident may cause by the flight environment, especially the buildings around. The aircraft was working in GPS mode and responded to RC command actively. Then the flight record ended without any abnormalities, so we could not evaluate what had happened after record disconnecting. Considering this special situation, we provided you with the best offer based on after-sales policy, hope your kindly understanding.

DoraeMonZ Posted at 2017-8-3 21:56
After I got my result back from DJI Support, below is what they said:

For your claimed case CAS-796810-V3K3D2, we have already finished the analysis, and the result is as follows:

This is the ridiculous answer from SPARK always. Is our fault that no more data was recorded because the drone just shut off by itself? DJI doesn't give a "shanonis" for the customer, and they don't have any sense what a good PR is. So , let me think to report this to the FAA, and have they take care banning all SPARK to fly until this is fixed, since this impose a great risk to the public. Also , the all US military already banned all DJI drones due to privacy concerns.  

LOKY Posted at 2017-8-7 04:34
This is the ridiculous answer from SPARK always. Is our fault that no more data was recorded because the drone just shut off by itself? DJI doesn't give a "shanonis" for the customer, and they don't have any sense what a good PR is. So , let me think to report this to the FAA, and have they take care banning all SPARK to fly until this is fixed, since this impose a great risk to the public. Also , the all US military already banned all DJI drones due to privacy concerns.

I think it's more than fair to say flying in the right environment is a prerequisite with all dji drones, it is clearly mentioned in your manual.
So when we choose to fly in unsuitable environment we are taking a risk of something outside our control occurring, we must take some responsibility for this.
And while we don't expect the aircraft to malfunction and it shouldn't, because aircraft is then lost it becomes a case of trying to prove what happened and why, without aircraft and its black box it becomes impossible to be conclusive. In the first place it was not dji who flew in unsuitable environment.

Regarding FAA I'm sure they would adopt a similar stance to dji regarding flying in unsuitable locations.
Remember dji have offered full warranty to those who have returned crashed aircraft with black box logs intact.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-8-7 05:51
I think it's more than fair to say flying in the right environment is a prerequisite with all dji drones, it is clearly mentioned in your manual.
So when we choose to fly in unsuitable environment we are taking a risk of something outside our control occurring, we must take some responsibility for this.
And while we don't expect the aircraft to malfunction and it shouldn't, because aircraft is then lost it becomes a case of trying to prove what happened and why, without aircraft and its black box it becomes impossible to be conclusive. In the first place it was not dji who flew in unsuitable environment.

"flying in the right environment" and "unsuitable environment", lets define then what is "right" environment and "unsuitable" environment. As far as I read here, not that I have read all posts, I can't see too many people trying to fly in what I will call "unsuitable environment". Of course, we have cases of "pilot" mistakes, but we have a lot of cases where the drone just gets "crazy" and fly away, drop as a rock from sky.

"Remember dji have offered full warranty to those", really? I may been reading the wrong threads then, when they offer ridiculous 30% discount, and most of the time, "sorry the drone crashed, not enough data, too bad when the drone has no power for some reason , drops , and is on the bottom of a lake.

"Regarding FAA I'm sure they would adopt a similar stance to dji regarding flying in unsuitable locations", yes they will do that after the first case when someone try to fly their drone on their back yard, and drop on some neighbors head, and make the news, like NY Times or Wash Post, and of course, after all the US military dropped DJI drones under privacy concerns, the actual power in place, is not going to be so in favor on products made outside US.

LOKY Posted at 2017-8-7 08:05
"flying in the right environment" and "unsuitable environment", lets define then what is "right" environment and "unsuitable" environment. As far as I read here, not that I have read all posts, I can't see too many people trying to fly in what I will call "unsuitable environment". Of course, we have cases of "pilot" mistakes, but we have a lot of cases where the drone just gets "crazy" and fly away, drop as a rock from sky.

"Remember dji have offered full warranty to those", really? I may been reading the wrong threads then, when they offer ridiculous 30% discount, and most of the time, "sorry the drone crashed, not enough data, too bad when the drone has no power for some reason , drops , and is on the bottom of a lake.

Go read your manual you will find what dji see a unsuitable environment, it's amazing you seem to think there are hundreds of Spark falling out of the sky, but as of yet no damage to people or property . I also feel you are reading stuff on this forum with blinkers on.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-8-7 08:13
Go read your manual you will find what dji see a suitable environment, it's amazing you seem to think there are hundreds of Spark falling out of the sky, but as of yet no damage to people or property . I also feel you are reading stuff on this forum with blinkers on.

I am not going to start a back and forth thread here, but your assumption that the manual defines what is "suitable" environment is kind of funny. I am not sure where I said that I think is hundreds of SPARKS dropping from the sky, the % as I pointed out in multiples threads is small compared as the number of SPARKS sold, but we need just one bad case to have all SPARKS to be banned to fly around. Also as a QA Engineer I can tell you DJI QA has been bad as can be as their strategy with customers, almost as bad as their PR group.

LOKY Posted at 2017-8-7 08:05
"flying in the right environment" and "unsuitable environment", lets define then what is "right" environment and "unsuitable" environment. As far as I read here, not that I have read all posts, I can't see too many people trying to fly in what I will call "unsuitable environment". Of course, we have cases of "pilot" mistakes, but we have a lot of cases where the drone just gets "crazy" and fly away, drop as a rock from sky.

"Remember dji have offered full warranty to those", really? I may been reading the wrong threads then, when they offer ridiculous 30% discount, and most of the time, "sorry the drone crashed, not enough data, too bad when the drone has no power for some reason , drops , and is on the bottom of a lake.

Please stop bringing up the military thing, it honestly holds no context to the above subject and takes away what little creditability your argument has.  The military thing is a political move. Nothing else.  

DJI Thor Posted at 2017-8-7 04:17
As I had checked the data and confirmed by our engineers, please refer to screenshot below, the accident may cause by the flight environment, especially the buildings around. [view_image]The aircraft was working in GPS mode and responded to RC command actively. Then the flight record ended without any abnormalities, so we could not evaluate what had happened after record disconnecting. Considering this special situation, we provided you with the best offer based on after-sales policy, hope your kindly understanding.

Hi DJI Thor,

First off, I want to state how much I do appreciate your efforts and the efforts of all the moderators.  There's a lot of different styles and topics and temperaments that you have to deal with.

I have not reviewed this flight record, and I could be speaking out of turn.

I have concerns with the statement that "The flight recorded ended without any abnormalities", and would like to respectfully convey my concerns.

We know that a flight that begins and ends normally will have very specific log events indicating such.  I've seen launch log entries, I've seen landing log entries.  If a full log contains a launch event and a list of various flight events, but suddenly ends and doesn't convey any landing event, that lack of data is in fact data.  Under such circumstances, there is an abnormal termination of telemetry.

The most direct analogy I can think of is the re-entry of the space shuttle Columbia.  I do not make this comparison lightly, as that event involved loss of life, and we are not talking about life and limb with the spark.  Never-the-less it is the transmission of data (and sudden end of transmission) that were key indicators of events.  When the tire pressure sensor data from the left wing stopped, the lack of data did not mean there was nothing wrong, and it didn't mean that there were no abnormalities.  On the contrary, this very lack of data was an early indicator of an ongoing catastrophic failure of the left wing.

My contention is that if the log data ends abruptly, and there is no indication of landing log entries, this lack of data IS data, and it is telling us that there was an abnormal termination of telemetry.

I concede here that there is at least one scenario I can think of that isn't related to the craft...  I suspect that if the DJI GO 4 app terminates that this would account for lack of "normal" end of flight log activity.  I intend to do some tests (I've so many tests I want to try) and find out.  I've seen that even if the app is exited, it stills shows up as running.  Maybe some background process is still collecting data.

In conclusion, I contend that if a log of a flight does not end with normal landing log events (or even unusual landing log events), that this demonstrates an "abnormality".

Charles Adams Posted at 2017-8-7 09:45
Hi DJI Thor,

First off, I want to state how much I do appreciate your efforts and the efforts of all the moderators.  There's a lot of different styles and topics and temperaments that you have to deal with.

The recovered log form your app is the actual flight. I.e. Flight distance altitude stick movements warnings long and lat all controls and telemetry, this log ends with disconnected transmission, there is also a dat file log in the AC itself continually logging much more detailed data, it would be safe to say this dat file has the answer or answers to the reason why AC suddenly lost power and crashed, it can tell in minute detail how all the working parts of the AC are operating and what part or parts of the AC may have been having problems and the reason for AC malfunction.
The problem with those who have not recovered their AC is this data is also lost, so we get the answer that up until loss of transmission everything was fine, so no proof of any fault of the aircraft or in most of these cases dji are just willing to accept without saying in words 30% at fault.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-8-7 10:38
The recovered log form your app is the actual flight. I.e. Flight distance altitude stick movements warnings long and lat all controls and telemetry, this log ends with disconnected transmission, there is also a dat file log in the AC itself continually logging much more detailed data, it would be safe to say this dat file has the answer or answers to the reason why AC suddenly lost power and crashed, it can tell in minute detail how all the working parts of the AC are operating and what part or parts of the AC may have been having problems and the reason for AC malfunction.
The problem with those who have not recovered their AC is this data is also lost, so we get the answer that up until loss of transmission everything was fine, so no proof of any fault of the aircraft or in most of these cases dji are just willing to accept without saying in words 30% at fault.

So far that does seem to be the case, that they want to see the dat file from the AC, and thus far DJI is willing to conclude (based on short logs) that they have no evidence of abnormality.

This is where I wish to work through Thor and the other moderators, and convey that maybe from a company perspective, this is a reasonable conclusion (there is no proof of anything "abnormal").  But from a forensic perspective, from a scientific perspective, from an engineering perspective, this is not an accurate conclusion.  Unless there is a "normal" use case where flight logs won't have a "landing" event (and I'm not aware of any such use case), a log file which terminates with none of the usual signatures and patterns IS abnormal.  Something abnormal did happen.

I'm not yet claiming that they would need to replace such a spark (though honestly that is where my brain leads me).  I just am trying to get DJI to take the next analytical step.  Loss of telemetry IS abnormal.  If I can get DJI to acknowledge this axiom, then we can advance the discussion.

Charles Adams Posted at 2017-8-7 11:03
So far that does seem to be the case, that they want to see the dat file from the AC, and thus far DJI is willing to conclude (based on short logs) that they have no evidence of abnormality.

This is where I wish to work through Thor and the other moderators, and convey that maybe from a company perspective, this is a reasonable conclusion (there is no proof of anything "abnormal").  But from a forensic perspective, from a scientific perspective, from an engineering perspective, this is not an accurate conclusion.  Unless there is a "normal" use case where flight logs won't have a "landing" event (and I'm not aware of any such use case), a log file which terminates with none of the usual signatures and patterns IS abnormal.  Something abnormal did happen.

There are some those who have recovered their AC sent in for evaluation and received warranty, why would dji offer these warranty, I have asked some to try to obtain dat file results from dji but most seem just glad to receive new AC and not rock the boat.

All the symptoms seem to be exactly the same.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-8-7 11:21
There are some those who have recovered their AC sent in for evaluation and received warranty, why would dji offer these warranty, I have asked some to try to obtain dat file results from dji but most seem just glad to receive new AC and not rock the boat.

All the symptoms seem to be exactly the same.

I have already decided that if such an event occurs while I'm flying, and if I am able to retrieve the spark, I'm going to obtain all the data, send it to DJI, AND share that same data with our forum participants.

I hope it doesn't happen to me, and if it happens over water, I'm hosed.

DJI Thor Posted at 2017-8-7 04:17
As I had checked the data and confirmed by our engineers, please refer to screenshot below, the accident may cause by the flight environment, especially the buildings around. [view_image]The aircraft was working in GPS mode and responded to RC command actively. Then the flight record ended without any abnormalities, so we could not evaluate what had happened after record disconnecting. Considering this special situation, we provided you with the best offer based on after-sales policy, hope your kindly understanding.

I'm sorry, but this seems like a stretch. Please elaborate on how the existence of a building hundreds of meters away would cause an aircraft to simply power off its motors. I'm not saying you're wrong (especially since mine powered off while ActiveTracking a non-moving house) but this "limitation" MUST be clearly documented and announced for safety purposes.

Charles Adams Posted at 2017-8-7 11:23
I have already decided that if such an event occurs while I'm flying, and if I am able to retrieve the spark, I'm going to obtain all the data, send it to DJI, AND share that same data with our forum participants.

I hope it doesn't happen to me, and if it happens over water, I'm hosed.

I'm with ya. I'm trying to replicate my incident so I can share the data.

DJI Thor Posted at 2017-8-7 04:17
As I had checked the data and confirmed by our engineers, please refer to screenshot below, the accident may cause by the flight environment, especially the buildings around. [view_image]The aircraft was working in GPS mode and responded to RC command actively. Then the flight record ended without any abnormalities, so we could not evaluate what had happened after record disconnecting. Considering this special situation, we provided you with the best offer based on after-sales policy, hope your kindly understanding.

Hi DJI Thor,

Sorry, it is not okay to understand as the flight log end when Spark fly over the river.

If you actually see my flight log, you will see that the Spark GPS end over the river and it did not hit the building. I saw it drop into the river with my own eyes. How can I understand that DJI push this product error responsible to their customer.

Thank you,
Piyavut

DJI puts the burden of proof on their customers, that a drone falling out of the sky was faulty. That is not acceptable. DJI should instead prove that it was a user default if this happens. A spark just falling out of the sky is not normal..  

fans7666527f Posted at 2017-8-7 22:03
DJI puts the burden of proof on their customers, that a drone falling out of the sky was faulty. That is not acceptable. DJI should instead prove that it was a user default if this happens. A spark just falling out of the sky is not normal..

ok, unless DJI may state, as their Mr. Hallmark07 did, that it may have hit a bird. It cannot get ridiculous enough if it is about money, right?

DoraeMonZ Posted at 2017-8-7 21:13
Hi DJI Thor,

Sorry, it is not okay to understand as the flight log end when Spark fly over the river.

Your case had aroused a high attention to us, and we had had someone contacted you. Thanks for your kindly understanding.

mmatos Posted at 2017-8-7 12:30
I'm sorry, but this seems like a stretch. Please elaborate on how the existence of a building hundreds of meters away would cause an aircraft to simply power off its motors. I'm not saying you're wrong (especially since mine powered off while ActiveTracking a non-moving house) but this "limitation" MUST be clearly documented and announced for safety purposes.

We need to evaluate it in a certain case. Let me make an assumption, if a drone lost GPS signal, the drone might enter into ATTI mode, the drone can also be controlled at this time, aircraft can only maintain altitude using the barometer, thus one needs to be more careful than the drone is in P Mode, or an accident might happen if user operate it improperly, but this will not show on the app nor the flight record if the app is disconnected at that time, thus we can't verify what happened after.
But as I mentioned, it is just an assumed occasion, it depends on a real case. Thanks for the kindly understanding.

Charles Adams Posted at 2017-8-7 09:45
Hi DJI Thor,

First off, I want to state how much I do appreciate your efforts and the efforts of all the moderators.  There's a lot of different styles and topics and temperaments that you have to deal with.

Thanks for the kindly inputs. There are reasons might cause a flight record terminated abruptly, such as app disconnected, RC signal loss and image transmission loss etc.. But it depends on a certain case. If something unexpected happened, we hope that we can a certain case by the certain data on the drone, also, more data like not only the flight record but the flight data on the drone, Black Box data will also help to make a more specific analysis.

DJI Thor Posted at 2017-8-9 23:28
We need to evaluate it in a certain case. Let me make an assumption, if a drone lost GPS signal, the drone might enter into ATTI mode, the drone can also be controlled at this time, aircraft can only maintain altitude using the barometer, thus one needs to be more careful than the drone is in P Mode, or an accident might happen if user operate it improperly, but this will not show on the app nor the flight record if the app is disconnected at that time, thus we can't verify what happened after.
But as I mentioned, it is just an assumed occasion, it depends on a real case. Thanks for the kindly understanding.

it is unacceptable, regardless..   if log ends suddenly, that is DJI's fault, solely their own for not being able to conclude a log properly or gather proper telemetry and diagnostic data or freeze frames, that would have resulted in losses.   i understand the "concerns" that once aircraft is down and offline it cannot receive data however that's how telemetry works.. sudden disconnection or gap and loss of data  = malfunction ..period.   

Dji is walking on thin glass....large media already has a natural hatred for "drones" of all types. US military has multiple security concerns AGAINST Dji after years of use and NEGLECT from DJi they finally cut the cord. multiple small media outlets have already picked up the spark falling like stones out of the sky stories and poor DJi customer care. and interms of customers reccomending you, good luck with that, like i said, DJi gets two thumbs down from me..  hardware is amazing, software is meh, but your company is completely messed up.