Just found a new arrival regarding the US Army's DJI ban:
https://www.suasnews.com/2017/08/us-army-walks-back-dji-decision-slightly/

It seems the Army may be preparing to rescind it's ban.  From the article, it sounds like the Army's problem was the Go app, not the drones.  Once a DJI plugin is developed for the Army's ATAK system (an Android app)(which will be the approved ground station) that passes the Army's standards for OPSEC the ban will be lifted, however until that is done the drones will remain shelved.

If I had to guess I would say they did not like the new geo system and or the way the app communicates with DJI.  There is also a long thread on RC groups that seems to have found some suspect code buried in the system (allows for the app to be modified remotely after installation and without user control, it was possibly left over by a lazy programmer from the development stage as it doesn't appear to have ever been used) which DJI says it plans to correct in the next version, might be what upset the Army.

Good news for military users I guess.

"If I had to guess I would say they did not like the new geo system and or the way the app communicates with DJI"

If they are using their own "secure" app then the problem would have been needing to also install the Go app to get the NFZs unlocked and running Go was a security concern, even if only running in the background.

Aloha 9245,

     This is almost Standard Operating Procedure for the Army.  Good that they got it sorted out.  A contractor will develop a SDK program for the Army, as you note (ATAK), and address security concerns, then they will be back in business.  DJI products have such advantages that they cannot be ignored.  They are the fastest way to get the technology into the air.

     This will also help address the problem of militants using DJI technology.  The military needs to figure out ways to compromise their use of the DJI products.  Apparently, there already is a hacking problem.

     Mahalo for the heads-up!

Aloha and Drone On!

Nigel_ Posted at 2017-8-14 23:04
"If I had to guess I would say they did not like the new geo system and or the way the app communicates with DJI"

If they are using their own "secure" app then the problem would have been needing to also install the Go app to get the NFZs unlocked and running Go was a security concern, even if only running in the background.

Aloha Nigel,

     Interesting point, but the US Military will probably just create a sanitized version of the DJI GO 4 app in SDK form and if you think about it, probably the CrystalSky displays in militarized form.  That could be deadly!  But, their version of CS would be the 7.85 version for a Cendence based P4 Pro++.  I want one of those!

     The military will also be using a lot of Inspire and Matrice based drones in a ++ configuration.  The Zenmuse XT (FLIR camera) will be very much in demand or a beefed up version made in the USA under contract.  The solutions are endless.

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2017-8-14 23:56
Aloha Nigel,

     Interesting point, but the US Military will probably just create a sanitized version of the DJI GO 4 app in SDK form and if you think about it, probably the CrystalSky displays in militarized form.  That could be deadly!  But, their version of CS would be the 7.85 version for a Cendence based P4 Pro++.  I want one of those!

If they are using them on the battleground then I would agree that it wont be Phantoms they are using, they would get shot down before the phantom camera is able to see much of use!

However other reports suggested that they do mainly have Phantoms so I imagine they are being used for support rather than front line duty.   Since this is only the army I'm a bit puzzled as to what they would be used for, maybe mainly building maintenance back home?  Or perimeter surveillance of army bases in the USA?  Maybe they were bought for dealing with natural disasters, e.g. they would have come in very useful after hurricane Katrina, although our local police use Inspires for these purposes since they want to use thermal cameras.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/ ... ne-security-privacy

Nigel_ Posted at 2017-8-15 00:26
If they are using them on the battleground then I would agree that it wont be Phantoms they are using, they would get shot down before the phantom camera is able to see much of use!

However other reports suggested that they do mainly have Phantoms so I imagine they are being used for support rather than front line duty.   Since this is only the army I'm a bit puzzled as to what they would be used for, maybe mainly building maintenance back home?  Or perimeter surveillance of army bases in the USA?  Maybe they were bought for dealing with natural disasters, e.g. they would have come in very useful after hurricane Katrina, although our local police use Inspires for these purposes since they want to use thermal cameras.

Aloha Nigel,

     All good points.   And you have the right to be puzzled, after all it is the military!  I am sure that any Phantom that gets anywhere near a conflict zone would get a quick flat black, brown or gray paint-job.  

     BTW, the Secret Service is testing a new surveillance quadcopter with a filimentateous tether for power, video and control for Trump while he is in New Jersey for vacation.  It will operate at 300-400 feet.

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2017-8-15 01:21
Aloha Nigel,

     All good points.   And you have the right to be puzzled, after all it is the military!  I am sure that any Phantom that gets anywhere near a conflict zone would get a quick flat black, brown or gray paint-job.  

Assuming that Trumps drone is going to have to follow him around the course, and the power generator is going to have to be mounted in a golf cart that follows him about on the ground, that filimentateous tether is going to get wrapped around tree branches pretty fast!   

I'm predicting that any golf course visited by Trump is going to have to cut down all the trees on the route around the course first

Cetacean Posted at 2017-8-15 01:21
Aloha Nigel,

     All good points.   And you have the right to be puzzled, after all it is the military!  I am sure that any Phantom that gets anywhere near a conflict zone would get a quick flat black, brown or gray paint-job.  

  

It boils down to this, simplicity of use and operation.  DARPA has come out with many gee-whiz drones for front line use.  However, many are either cost prohibitive to use on a large scale, require some in-depth skill & experience to be employed effectively, and/or they cannot be used in all environments or circumstances.  

  Conversely, DJI drones are simple to use, don’t require extensive training to effectively operate, and with the COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) program, they can be immediately procured at most likely less expense than the typical DoD procurement process.  However, there are many LIMFACs involved with using things like this in a battlefield environment.  Most of it has to do with enemy capabilities and advisories ability to exploit.  In our current primary conflict arena it is a relatively permissive environment where we have superiority, thus allowing the use of items such as these i.e. the jihadist have limited means to counter or exploit them, it is possible but it is not prolific enough to negate any advantage we hold.  However, other adversarial militaries will and do take advantage of surveilling our military operations any chance they get.  It’s called gathering intelligence, focusing on our TTPs (Tactics, Techniques, & Procedures); thus the need for OPSEC, and most likely one of the main reasons for the Army’s recent actions.  

  With respect to DJI product use, can’t speak to current TTPs the Army uses, couldn’t even if I knew, but it could be something as simple as using them for training purposes or any other imaginative way the drone will allow.  However, it is unlikely they are used for security surveillance as they don’t have a very good loiter time and there are many other persistent means they already employ that covers that area.  My guess is these items are used tactically, to permit battlefield troops the ability to briefly gain the high ground to view the battlespace and improve their SA.  Even so, we all know these things are A) not quiet and B) not stealthy, but as I noted before they are a cost effective way of getting the job done and in this current environment they are likely the right hammer for the nail we are hammering.

Genghis9 Posted at 2017-8-15 03:44
It boils down to this, simplicity of use and operation.  DARPA has come out with many gee-whiz drones for front line use.  However, many are either cost prohibitive to use on a large scale, require some in-depth skill & experience to be employed effectively, and/or they cannot be used in all environments or circumstances.    Conversely, DJI drones are simple to use, don’t require extensive training to effectively operate, and with the COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) program, they can be immediately procured at most likely less expense than the typical DoD procurement process.  However, there are many LIMFACs involved with using things like this in a battlefield environment.  Most of it has to do with enemy capabilities and advisories ability to exploit.  In our current primary conflict arena it is a relatively permissive environment where we have superiority, thus allowing the use of items such as these i.e. the jihadist have limited means to counter or exploit them, it is possible but it is not prolific enough to negate any advantage we hold.  However, other adversarial militaries will and do take advantage of surveilling our military operations any chance they get.  It’s called gathering intelligence, focusing on our TTPs (Tactics, Techniques, & Procedures); thus the need for OPSEC, and most likely one of the main reasons for the Army’s recent actions.    With respect to DJI product use, can’t speak to current TTPs the Army uses, couldn’t even if I knew, but it could be something as simple as using them for training purposes or any other imaginative way the drone will allow.  However, it is unlikely they are used for security surveillance as they don’t have a very good loiter time and there are many other persistent means they already employ that covers that area.  My guess is these items are used tactically, to permit battlefield troops the ability to briefly gain the high ground to view the battlespace and improve their SA.  Even so, we all know these things are A) not quiet and B) not stealthy, but as I noted before they are a cost effective way of getting the job done and in this current environment they are likely the right hammer for the nail we are hammering.

Aloha Genghis,

     Good points all around.  DARPA has excelled in the micro drone environment with one-way, expendable units.  Some are really amazing and give new definition to the term "Fly on the Wall".  Swarm and delivery of swarm units are also very interesting.  That will give most enemies the heebie geebies!  At least for a while.

     I was rather surprised about the military use of DJI products for the loiter and other points you make.  The Trump quadcopter appears to be a new application of one the military is already using for perimeter surveillance that also uses a filimentatious tether.  This has been written about previously.

     The DJI products really have no use in a combat environment, except as a decoy or distraction, due to the loiter and noise issues.  In those scenarios they could be equipped with small and lightweight explosives as part of the mission and we have seen that is easily done on this forum for other purposes than explosives.  (Not too many DJI customers want to blow up their Phantoms - except to talk about it on the Forum.)  But considering a $1000 Phantom vs a $10,000 (or more) militarized drone used for the same purpose, the DJI product looks very attractive.

     Every time you turn around, another micro drone is being used for military purposes and the most interesting are the Mavic size and style ones that are wiped out on a moment's notice to improve SA.  Just saw a video on that the other day.  But, like I said, these will have to sanitized DJI products for military use.  That is what contractors are for.

     Kind of nice to talk about of these interesting subjects with someone else who operates the subject matter.  Others just look at you - What?

Aloha and Drone On!

Cetacean Posted at 2017-8-15 16:36
Aloha Genghis,

     Good points all around.  DARPA has excelled in the micro drone environment with one-way, expendable units.  Some are really amazing and give new definition to the term "Fly on the Wall".  Swarm and delivery of swarm units are also very interesting.  That will give most enemies the heebie geebies!  At least for a while.

Agreed...but a touchy subject in general.  

Can't give away the store by talking to much about some of these topics, and I hate talking around stuff (1. you shouldn't) because it does accelerate those folks' eyes rolling to the back of their heads.

However, I do like pontificating about it when I can and it helps when someone else speaks the language.  I think most of us know that it’s the Space Industry and that vaunted Industrial Military Complex that helps bring some of these products to our doorstep where we can enjoy them and derive whole new industries from them.

  Aloha!

What bothers me is that DJI will rush out some firmware update to satisfy the military and government, and no doubt they will seriously hobble up something else in the process.  GO 4 and the firmware is getting too buggy as it is to straighten out without maybe a full re-write of the program, imho.

Missing maps is a new one where my iPad doesn't show them anymore, and now the Android does.  Then it was Androids that never connected (Mine connects again now!?!),  and now the Apple ones are having a disconnect issue.  Used to be the opposite for both.

Fix one thing, and then break another.

Genghis9 Posted at 2017-8-15 17:54
Agreed...but a touchy subject in general.  Can't give away the store by talking to much about some of these topics, and I hate talking around stuff (1. you shouldn't) because it does accelerate those folks' eyes rolling to the back of their heads. However, I do like pontificating about it when I can and it helps when someone else speaks the language.  I think most of us know that it’s the Space Industry and that vaunted Industrial Military Complex that helps bring some of these products to our doorstep where we can enjoy them and derive whole new industries from them.  Aloha!

Aloha Genghis,

     Truer words were never spake!  Not to mention it is hard for them to fly with their eyes in the back of their head.  We are here to help not make seeing the screen and bird harder.

Aloha and Drone On!

The suspect code you are referring to was most certainly planned. It was there to counter unauthorized modified flight parameters. When DJI detects a modified flight parameter like max altitude changed to 3000  meters for instance it can be changed back to default on the fly. Thats why its there. Its entirely they're to counter jailbreaking.