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Smart Charger
1250 21 2015-4-11
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smatchet42
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If any of you have purchased the "Smart Charger", how's it working out for you? Any problems or concerns with the function of the unit when using the "deep cycle" sequence? If it's working well for you, could you advise what firmware and battery version you are working with? Since DJI has a couple different battery versions and several different firmware versions, I'm wondering if the charger is compatible with all of them. I really like the "deep cycle" idea, but want to know if it works with all the various battery combinations before spending that kind of money. Yeah, I could ask the company, but I like to get some answers from end users when possible.

Please don't tell me I'm crazy for even considering spending that kind of money on the charger. In my younger days, I pissed more money that that away, literally, during a couple evenings spent in a bar. This thing is "front pocket money".

2015-4-11
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nrgwise
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Okay, I won't tell you you are crazy until you supply a link so I can see what this Smart Charger is.

(I searched but could not find it)
2015-4-11
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mike
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product ... Id=WX2YGMLC6HHBCGTU
2015-4-11
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smatchet42
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mike@singerscre Posted at 2015-4-11 21:55
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SNQNIH0/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=93 ...

That's the one.
2015-4-11
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i_anderson
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I read a review of it somewhere, but don't remember where now. IIRC, whoever did the review was a huge fan of the thing.

OTOH, I'm a little surprised there aren't any reviews on Amazon as yet - Particularly as they're saying "only 9 left in stock".

It'll only do one battery at a time, but I'm using a well trusted smart charger I already had - I like it as it has a nice display telling me whats going in/out etc and keeps track of the different batteries for me. IIRC, it was about $80. But, if you have a need to do 4 at a time, this certainly looks like the ticket.

FWIW, I also *vaguely* recall the review mentioned it would interface to your 'puter, so maybe it has some firmware that will give you info that way - I *really* like seeing what's going on.

Cheers,
Ian
2015-4-11
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smatchet42
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i_anderson@iclo Posted at 2015-4-12 01:27
I read a review of it somewhere, but don't remember where now. IIRC, whoever did the review was a hu ...

What is the charger you're utilizing?
2015-4-11
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i_anderson
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smatchet42@hotm Posted at 2015-4-12 01:30
What is the charger you're utilizing?

Here ya go;

https://www.commonsenserc.com/product_info.php?cPath=38_29&products_id=2100&osCsid=4uscht6bok209notusc2cpi2a1

There's many others of course, but I've had this one for a few years and "trust" it implicitly.

The biggest "problem" was sourcing the DJI charging plug......

Cheers,
Ian
2015-4-11
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nrgwise
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mike@singerscre Posted at 2015-4-11 21:55
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SNQNIH0/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=93 ...

Hmm...I actually like that charger.  It is a bit expensive though.
2015-4-11
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smatchet42
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nrgwise Posted at 2015-4-12 04:08
Hmm...I actually like that charger.  It is a bit expensive though.

If you think you might want to give one a try, there is a good deal in here:

http://www.dronethusiast.com/dji ... wercharge-spc-4000/
2015-4-11
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gary.ok
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I got the smart charger a month or so ago. So far I love the thing. It charges all four at once and is pretty easy to use. The circuitry allows you to leave your battery in so its not a big deal to drop them in at night and go to bed. The discharge cycle takes about four hours but again all done overnight. It takes about twice as long as the DJI charger to get a full charge, but that is primarily because the circuitry regulates the charge to protect battery.  I questioned the company about this when I first got it, and I don't know if I completely believe everything he said but it makes sense. He explained that the stock DJI charger is a fixed voltage designed to charge the battery fast. Too fast in fact.  They have a vested interest in getting the battery charge cycle as short as possible, but this fast charge rate is not all that good for the battery. The smart charger apparently varies the rate to the optimum rate throughout the cycle. Again not sure I buy it, but he claims the battery will last a lot longer.  Remains to be seen I guess. I have 30 cycles on one so it will be hitting that notorious 50 cycle mark soon.
2015-4-11
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i_anderson
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gary.ok@hotmail Posted at 2015-4-12 05:48
I got the smart charger a month or so ago. So far I love the thing. It charges all four at once and  ...

Glad to hear it's working for you - It damn well should at that price! :eek:

However, as you, I too "question" some of his comments.

- The DJI charger is rated @ 4A - Nowhere near enough to be overloading anything with these batteries.
- If you look at the charge curve, at 4A, the voltage rises fairly quickly till it gets to 4.2V. The charger then holds that voltage and reduces the current as it starts to "fill up" - Current demand drops. This is why your charger gets warmest at, pretty much, 70-80% then cools off after that till full.
- Sounds to me like they can't supply that much juice to that many batteries (Given some headroom, would need a 20A supply, and thats a fair bit.....) Which is fine, but claiming they're "protecting the batteries" is questionable at best IMO.

As always, just my 02c,
Cheers,
Ian
2015-4-11
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nrgwise
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smatchet42@hotm Posted at 2015-4-12 05:29
If you think you might want to give one a try, there is a good deal in here:

http://www.dronethus ...

Thank you for the link and code.  Much appreciated.  I did order the charger.
2015-4-11
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nrgwise
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i_anderson@iclo Posted at 2015-4-12 06:09
Sounds to me like they can't supply that much juice to that many batteries (... Which is fine, but claiming they're "protecting the batteries" is questionable

I am not so sure about that.  I have a charger that charges three batteries at once.  They state the exact same premise for their charger.  So far, I have found that the batteries I charge with that give me on average 4 to 6 minutes more flight time than the one I charge with the DJI charger.  What I don't like about that one is that there is no discharge or deep cycle function.  Hence my interest in this unit.

I work in the electronics industry - more specifically the capacitor industry.  A lot of the product we make is being used for capacitors in hybrid cars as well as batteries in general.  The rechargeable kind.  All these chargers take capacitors (obviously along with other components) to regulate the voltages and amperage supplied at any given time.  I have reviewed a LOT of specifications for these devices (caps and chargers and power supplies) and designed capacitors to fit a lot of these applications.  The theory is sound and proven.  A battery is a lot like a capacitor in that it stores a charge, it is the discharge rate that is different between the two.  You can charge a battery to 'full charge' quite rapidly as far as the voltmeter goes.  But to get the amperage out of it, you need that charge to be 'packed.'  Meaning, not only does the voltage have to be there, but the current needs to be as well.  The only way to do this is to saturate the charge material.  The only way to do this is over time and with fluctuation of both the voltage and amperage applied to the material.

Rapid charging may be convenient, but it is not the best for the life of the battery.  In fact, it is the most detrimental to long term stability and consistency in performance.
2015-4-11
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gary.ok
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I think that is all he's saying is that the charger regulates the voltage so that the current draw is more uniform across the entire charge cycle. These don't get all that hot but they are fan cooled and it does come on from time to time.  I know not apples to apples here, but the smart charger I had on my Rv (xantrex) was crazy expensive but claimed a lot of the same things.  Back then I would go the cheap Walmart charger route and replace my deep cycles every year or two. Got a good charger and I could go six or seven seasons.  So yeah this ones expensive but in the long run it could be worth it.
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smatchet42
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Yug Posted at 2015-4-12 07:22
Found this interesting (from the review).......

"8% discharge is fine as long as you don’t go belo ...

You've put this in at least four places. What is your point?
2015-4-11
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smatchet42
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Yug Posted at 2015-4-12 09:29
Sharing the information out there in the relavant threads. That is the point of a forum. What is yo ...

Thought you were trying to make a statement, but couldn't figure out what it was. Didn't take it at face value.
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i_anderson
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nrgwise Posted at 2015-4-12 06:33
I am not so sure about that.  I have a charger that charges three batteries at once.  They state th ...

*Very* interesting - Thanks for your thoughts & comments. Hopefully, we can keep this debate going with some "intelligent" input...... I'm certainly not arguing, just trying to add to the knowledge pool. So, my Q's/comments on some of what you said:

- 4-6 minutes extra flight time is *huge*! Congrats! What current is your 3 battery charger supplying to them? You're saying a "slow" charge is better for them. I agree to a degree, and you certainly don't want to constantly use "fast charging", but I don't think that's what the DJI charger is doing - Again, 4A is pretty small for these batteries. I actually believe a mix of fast & slow may be the optimum. I have no data to back this up, it just makes some empirical sense to me.

- AFAIK, all Li-Po chargers work basically the same way; Set the current (or in the case of the default charger, just accept that it's 4amps.) I can set mine anywhere from 1-5A, but for now have stuck with the accepted 4. Obviously, this gives about the same charge time as the DJI. The battery starts accepting juice, initially at the set rate until V reaches 3.7 x cell count - In our case, obviously 11.1V.  Once reached, it holds that V and the I reduces as it continues to charge. Once I drops to zero, it shuts off.

A "true" fast charger would be firing in around 6-8 amps (maybe more!) initially, but again, once max V is reached, that drops off fairly quickly so is doing nothing different to a slow charger at this time.

It would be nice to gather data on charge rate, time and subsequent flight time. Maybe I'll try setting one battery to always charge "slow", at say 2A. The second at 3A and the last at 5. (Still not enough to be anywhere near a true fast charge).  I'm sure it'll take many cycles to see any differences emerge, but would sure be interesting - Chasing more flight time is kinda the "holy grail" after all! ;)

If anyone else wanted to do the same we could probably learn fairly quickly though?

Having said all that, I too suspect, as you alluded to,  that "exercising" them using  different charge rates is probably a good idea - Sometimes "slow" & sometimes "fast" - This is after all the way they get discharged. Again, no evidence, just a "gut feel".

It's a shame the monster charger that spawned this thread doesn't have a display - As noted before, I really like to watch whats going on as they charge/discharge.

Cheers,
Ian
2015-4-12
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jliddil
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nrgwise Posted at 2015-4-12 06:33
I am not so sure about that.  I have a charger that charges three batteries at once.  They state th ...

thanks for the technical details. I appreciate it
2015-4-12
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nrgwise
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What the supplied charger does is fine for one cycle of charging.  As in, the cycle will never deviate from one charge to the next.  It will always perform the same.  What a variable charger (the type we are specifically talking about here) will do is alter not only the current, but the voltage, on a variable basis to each load connected.  The best way to charge not only a single battery, but a better way to charge multiple batteries at the same time since load compensation can be applied at the same time (what the specific charger in question applies).

As far as flight times:  my batteries are numbered 1 through 4.  Number 1 is ALWAYS and ONLY charged with the DJI supplied charger.  Batteries number 2 - 3 - 4 are ALWAYS and ONLY charged using the three battery charger.  I fly my batteries in order (anal I know, but I am an engineer and in Quality Assurance, so I keep records).  When I fly, like today, I flew 13 minutes on battery number one before it hit the yellow indicator and rapidly fell to red and I landed.  Two green bars on battery.  Total flight was 14 min 24 sec.

On battery number 2 I flew 20 minutes before I got to yellow and 22 before I landed, still in yellow - two green bars lit on battery.  On battery number 3 I flew 18 minutes before I got to yellow and 20 before I landed, still in yellow - two green bars lit on battery.  On battery number 4 I flew 17 minutes before I got to yellow and 21 before I landed, still in yellow - two green bars lit on battery.  I have a tendency to trust the battery so I have a habit of flying it back to me just so I can see the lights on the battery before I say it has flown enough.  I think this shows in my videos and something I have to work on (shows - the back and forth on some - I am checking battery lights).
2015-4-12
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smatchet42
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gary.ok@hotmail Posted at 2015-4-12 05:48
I got the smart charger a month or so ago. So far I love the thing. It charges all four at once and  ...

Never got around to asking you for more info, so here goes. Would you tell us what version DJI battery and what version firmware is loaded on the batteries you are using with this charger? I've gotten some good discussion going here, but answers to the original question seem to have gotten lost in the minutiae.
2015-4-13
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gary.ok
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I have no idea on the firmware loaded on the batteries.  To be honest I never pay all that much attention to them.  I plugged them all in when I first got them, and made sure they were matching the latest version, but I have never gone back to see if anything has changed.  I don't hook my machine to the computer all that often.  
2015-4-13
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nrgwise
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Just received my Smart Charger.  Nice looking unit, sturdy, well made it seems.  What I didn't realize is that there are two USB ports on the side so I can charge everything at once - 4 batteries, extender, transmitter.  They also sent an adapter to put on the battery with 2 USB ports on it so you can charge stuff using the dji battery when not near power.  Not sure I would use that, but in the kit it went.
2015-4-17
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