Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Phantoms/UAVs are now illegal to fly in the US
4596 35 2014-11-18
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
crc2004
lvl.3
Flight distance : 63461 ft
United States
Offline

Time to sell mine to someone who lives in another country..

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/faa-can-make-all-drone-flights-illegal-appeals-court-rules



2014-11-18
Use props
crc2004
lvl.3
Flight distance : 63461 ft
United States
Offline

$10,000 fine for flying under 500 feet
2014-11-18
Use props
mixstreme
lvl.4

United Kingdom
Offline

crc2004 Posted at 2014-11-19 02:59
$10,000 fine for flying under 500 feet


This will open the floodgates for numerous counts of backlash and a reversal of such embarrassing issues for the FAA.
They cant have it both ways......  Well actually they can and have.....    -  Only in America.

I think the implications will rattle a few cages and this is far from over....
But from what I can see its based on the fact that he was actually being paid....   not a hobbiest.

Simple definitions required.

The FAA's model aircraft guidelines, meanwhile, suggest that any flight over 400 feet by a drone is unsafe and potentially illegal.

The NTSB's latest ruling, meaning that the FAA can fine you $10,000 for flying one anywhere, for any purpose. And the fact that "any device that is used for flight" can be considered an aircraft seems to suggest that even tiny toy aircraft are subject to the FAA's whim.

What is "used for flight"?  Used to fly what -  passengers?   or used to fly?,  used as a flying machine?  

Flight = the action or process of flying through the air.
Flying = moving or able to move through the air with wings.

Aircraft =
an aeroplane, helicopter, or other machine capable of flight.






definition of model aircraft is consistent with the FAA’s existing definition of aircraft as “any contrivance invented, used, or designed to navigate, or fly in, the air.” 49 U.S.C. 40102;
see also 14 C.F.R. 1.1. Although model aircraft may take many forms, at a base level model aircraft are clearly “invented, used, or designed” to fly in the air. Id.
Section 336 also prohibits the FAA from promulgating “any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft” if the following statutory requirements are met:
the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;
the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower … with prior notice of the operation….
P.L. 112-95, section 336(a)(1)-(5).
Thus, based on the language of the statute, we conclude that aircraft that meet the statutory definition and operational requirements, as described above, would be exempt
7
from future FAA rulemaking action specifically regarding model aircraft. Model aircraft that do not meet these statutory requirements are nonetheless unmanned aircraft, and as such, are subject to all existing FAA regulations, as well as future rulemaking action, and the FAA intends to apply its regulations to such unmanned aircraft.

2014-11-18
Use props
smot311

United States
Offline

looks like i cant play frisbee golf anymore
2014-11-18
Use props
LIPHANTOM
lvl.1

United States
Offline

So I guess DJI is going to stop selling them to US people as well?   How legit is this?
2014-11-18
Use props
markkinley
First Officer

United States
Offline

Oh this is disturbing!
I'm a pilot and hold a valid/current  pilots license. I fly single engine turbo props and  I wonder if this ruling would change if the current owners attend a "FAA Approved Certified Training Class" online / onsite.

The federal regulators would have FITS!!!
I cannot see all of us current owners take a loss on the purchase, due to the recent  ruling...
2014-11-18
Use props
LIPHANTOM
lvl.1

United States
Offline

markkinley@yaho Posted at 2014-11-19 04:34
Oh this is disturbing!
I'm a pilot and hold a valid/current  pilots license. I fly single engine tur ...

A loss would be a big problem for DJI.  They would have lawsuits left and right.   This doesn't look good for DJI if its enforced
2014-11-18
Use props
b.w.j
First Officer

Denmark
Offline

Is FAA some kind of children garden, feel sorry for them
2014-11-18
Use props
smot311

United States
Offline

It's all out of whack.  So the FAA says you can't fly model aircraft/drones above 400 feet, but now that drones are in the same category as 747s it is reckless to fly them under 500 feet.  I'm moving.
2014-11-18
Use props
johnwarr
Captain
Flight distance : 6467 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Don't panic people.
The FAA just want to make it clear that they control the airspace, (the same way that the CAA do in the UK), if you follow their guidelines and fly responsibly you will not have any trouble now or in the future.
2014-11-18
Use props
LIPHANTOM
lvl.1

United States
Offline

b.w.j@joergense Posted at 2014-11-19 04:49
Is FAA some kind of children garden, feel sorry for them

Raphael Pirker should be fined and made an example of.  He was reckless and could have hurt someone for sure.  A ruling as broad as this is ridiculous. But it was only a matter of time until a few bad apples spoiled it for everyone.

So as others have pointed out paper planes are illegal,  all model air planes,  Parasailing, Wake boarding.  Kite surfing for sure...  Give me a break.

This completely sucks because you know the police will wield this ruling as a weapon now.   If you go out to your local field and a cop feels like being a you know what you can now be arrested and fined 10K.  That should bring great pleasure, relaxation and enjoyment to flying my Phantom from now on.  
2014-11-18
Use props
LIPHANTOM
lvl.1

United States
Offline

johnwarr@live.c Posted at 2014-11-19 04:54
Don't panic people.
The FAA just want to make it clear that they control the airspace, (the same way ...

What are those guidelines?
2014-11-18
Use props
johnwarr
Captain
Flight distance : 6467 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

FAA ?
Here

Each country will have its own Airspace regulations.
2014-11-18
Use props
LIPHANTOM
lvl.1

United States
Offline


Yes but this ruling contradicts that.   So which do you follow?   Something tells me that link is going to get updated soon.
2014-11-18
Use props
johnwarr
Captain
Flight distance : 6467 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

If you fly in the USA, follow the FAA guidelines as printed on their website.
Local and national restrictions also apply, its up to the pilot to make sure they are flying safely and within the regulations.
2014-11-18
Use props
markkinley
First Officer

United States
Offline

My question is?
How did the FAA miss this?
The US military files bigger/better drones remotely and at blocked out/ assigned altitudes for security purposes.(wink wink)

Moreover, how could a company from china, establish itself within the USA if the federal regulators had not approved it.

So, are  DJI & others going to have to screen it operators after the  purchase or before the purchase?

One person can cause a whole bunch of hell for us all...

DJI please put a disclaimer on the box.. "For Mature Individuals Only"

2014-11-18
Use props
gil
Captain
Flight distance : 1379308 ft
United States
Offline

Ahh, it gives me such a warm glow when the government is looking out for my best interests.  The FAA and the NTSB should adopt the motto: "Trust us not to abuse our Power" :@

This issue is far from being settled.  I suspect an avalanche of angry letters from thousands of model aircraft fliers as well as "drone" pilots directed to their congressmen and representatives might have an influence on the outcome.
2014-11-18
Use props
indesicant
lvl.1
United States
Offline

I just picked up my new Phantom 2 v2.0 today and I'm really hoping it doesn't go to me having to hide in the middle of the woods somewhere to fly this thing. Out of curiosity, how exactly does the FAA usually find you to fine you if were just out for a normal flight and went home? Is it the type of thing that they will catch up to you later with, or do you have to be caught and charged by an officer on the spot?

Needless to say, I'll definitely be educating myself on the laws (I live in Colorado). Could you guys help with some links to relevant current laws in the US for myself and others who are worried about this topic of the hobby? I'd definitely like to know what my rights are if I'm ever approached by a police officer.

I'm not really sure how I missed this video on YouTube the whole time I've been looking at the Phantom (and flying a QX350 to learn on). It doesn't need to be said, but man it sucks to see this guy ruin the hobby. I acknowledged as soon as I saw the Phantom in person that it could do damage and I needed to be even more responsible and learn on something smaller first... even now, there's no way I'd bring a Phantom into the city and fly it over the streets.

As my new Phantom charges before it's first flight, it definitely saddens me to read this.
2014-11-18
Use props
skymaker6
lvl.4
Flight distance : 49009 ft
United States
Offline

markkinley@yaho Posted at 2014-11-19 05:37
My question is?
How did the FAA miss this?
The US military files bigger/better drones remotely and a ...

They can't say anything about the Military. The US Gov. makes rules for US, but not for the US Gov. It's the same thing for anything the US Gov. make a rule for. It's not for them but for the rest of us.
2014-11-18
Use props
Gerry1124
Captain

United States
Offline

If you fly responsibly, I don't think anyone would bother you.  The clown flying in the street in the video gives everyone else a bad name.
2014-11-18
Use props
mixstreme
lvl.4

United Kingdom
Offline

Gerry1124 Posted at 2014-11-19 10:05
If you fly responsibly, I don't think anyone would bother you.  The clown flying in the street in th ...

Oh Gerry, I cant believe the amount of evidence some people post online.....  
Totally agree, responsible and considerate is the way to go.
2014-11-18
Use props
michael
New

United States
Offline

johnwarr@live.c Posted at 2014-11-19 04:54
Don't panic people.
The FAA just want to make it clear that they control the airspace, (the same way ...

Sometimes "we the people" are our own worse enemy.  The guy that flew over the Pirates ballgame, the guy that flew near the Birmingham Airport, etc.   Idiots that give the FAA fuel to make regs too severe.   My 2 cents.
2014-11-19
Use props
kenargo
First Officer
  • >>>
United States
Offline

michael@fhaar.o Posted at 2014-11-20 05:32
Sometimes "we the people" are our own worse enemy.  The guy that flew over the Pirates ballgame, t ...

Exactly my thoughts as well.

The FAA isn't going to shut down model aircraft (planes, helicopters, drones, etc.) but all it takes are people who fly in an unsafe way to give the government a reason to get involved and make more regulations.  This person (according to the article) is alleged to have flown over people or persons at a low enough altitude to make the people doge the drone to avoid collision.  If the allegation is true (I haven't seen the video so I cannot comment on it) then it would certainly meet (IMO) a violation of the basic principals of safe flight.

Fly safe and you have nothing to worry about, go chasing people, animals, etc. and risk messing things up for everyone.
2014-11-19
Use props
jamesnns
lvl.4

United States
Offline

Same thing happened in the Metal detecting community...Laws were passed, worries went up. Nothing happened.  A very few caused some problems, communities reacted...
Move along, move along.  
2014-11-19
Use props
insitb
lvl.4

Singapore
Offline

True, that PP. But generally, unless you're Indiana Jones, not a lot of peoples' lives are endangered by MD.

I'm afraid that in the case of UAV's, authorities will simply have to act, or else it's a matter of time before innocent bystanders get hurt or worse.

As a side-note, I was surprised to learn the other day that a lot of European countries only introduced a speed limit on their highways in the 1970s. Before that, there simply wasn't one at all! And this speed limit was enforced from the start. I'm pretty sure that car-owners back then were well pee'd off by that law, but, let's face it, in the end, we all know it's necessary.

I reckon the same applies to UAV's. There has to be some legislative framework to separate the responsible pilots from the cowboys.
2014-11-19
Use props
gil
Captain
Flight distance : 1379308 ft
United States
Offline

Sigh... it does not help the publics perception of the sport when Tuesdays episode of "Chicago Fire" depicts a horrific helicopter crash that spreads debris and injuries far and wide  -- which our intrepid firefighters and viewers soon discover was caused by some kid flying a quadcopter that became entangled in the main rotor.  Now is the timing of that episode just a very odd coincidence or what?

ChicagoFire_s03e08_Chopper.jpg
2014-11-19
Use props
rdelrosario
lvl.1

Puerto Rico
Offline

Does any one knows if DJI make any statement about this information?

2014-11-20
Use props
kenargo
First Officer
  • >>>
United States
Offline

crc2004 Posted at 2014-11-19 02:59
$10,000 fine for flying under 500 feet

$10,000 for flying in an unsafe manner; apparently in the film footage the drone is seeing flying very low over a crowd of people causing some to appear to dodge the drone.

No, I haven't seen the footage but the above information came from a response from the FAA in court.
2014-11-20
Use props
kenargo
First Officer
  • >>>
United States
Offline

It's articles like these that I worry about more:  Drone Sightings at NYC Airport.

If you want to see the FAA come down on the RC (drones, planes, helicopters, etc.) just see what happens if ever an RC flying object brings down a plane (or even hits one).

It's idiots like these who will ruin it for everyone; just look on YouTube to see the kind of crazy things people are doing all in the name of hits and attention.  I've seen videos of drones chasing people, to the point of pinning a person or persons on the ground.  This is NOT responsible flying!
2014-11-20
Use props
rethuringer
lvl.4
Flight distance : 16083 ft
United States
Offline

gil@wk.net Posted at 2014-11-20 14:35
Sigh... it does not help the publics perception of the sport when Tuesdays episode of "Chicago Fire" ...

Just saw that episode last night, gave me a bad feeling on the future of my drone ownership. I have had my P2v+ only a couple of months and since I have seen a lot of press concerning drones most of which was made out to be not a good thing. The public is being brainwashed into these being Bad Eveal things in the sky. Seems our days may be numbered. That TV episode was intense and when they showed that shot of  the tangled  mess lodged in the tail rotor found blocks away on top of that women, I had to rewind to confirm what I thought I saw, a quad copter. They basically showed the viewers that this hobby drone got tangled up in the tail rotor of a full sized helicopter causing it to explode spraying debris and body's over the neighborhood. Over exaggerated though still a very dangerous situation.
2014-11-22
Use props
gil
Captain
Flight distance : 1379308 ft
United States
Offline

Honestly, if a quadcopter got anywhere near either of the rotors of an actual helicopter it would be unrecognizable confetti, not the mostly intact version we saw i that episode!  My "suspension of disbelief" was insulted by their "dramatic license".
2014-11-22
Use props
rethuringer
lvl.4
Flight distance : 16083 ft
United States
Offline

gil@wk.net Posted at 2014-11-22 22:19
Honestly, if a quadcopter got anywhere near either of the rotors of an actual helicopter it would be ...

I agree with that but as presented to the potential millions of viewers who don't know any better, drones have the potential to kill people therefore they should be banned period. I feel we are a minority and subject to public opinion as long as the media continually shows drones in a negative perspective. I can already feel the repercussions of those I encounter  who have seen the negative press etc. and have formed an opinion and tell me " OH, your one of those people who fly those evil things that can kill/hurt inocent people.
I was once excited with this new technology but now that I have an investment in current equipment I feel my fun will be coming to a expensive end soon. Majority Rules ya know. There is no public  education on the positives of video drones. its all negitive in the media stream. Don't know how it can be changed. Seems we are doomed, I hope not. If it comes down to me having to remove my  camera and GPS and fly manual mode to conform to local laws, then I have spent a lot more than I had to for that. Maybe it will be back to park fliers for me sooner than I wanted.
2014-11-22
Use props
rethuringer
lvl.4
Flight distance : 16083 ft
United States
Offline

gil@wk.net Posted at 2014-11-22 22:19
Honestly, if a quadcopter got anywhere near either of the rotors of an actual helicopter it would be ...

Yea, I do n't think any drone could overcome the downforce of a full sized heli main rotor let alone being shredded by the tail rotor before any damage to the Heli. HOLLYWOOD!!!!!!!!!!
2014-11-22
Use props
josephbobowicz
Second Officer

United Kingdom
Offline

Things will continue to get interesting as clueless newbies take to the air on both sides of the pond. I hope it does not lead to . . .
houston-we-have-a-problem.jpg
2014-11-22
Use props
shep941
lvl.1

United States
Offline

From the video it looks to me like an idiot who is asking to screw it up for all of us. Why would you do high speed freestlye flying over traffic and groups of pedestrians? Idiocy.
2014-11-22
Use props
ronhowell
lvl.1

United States
Offline

shep941@gmail.c Posted at 2014-11-23 11:12
From the video it looks to me like an idiot who is asking to screw it up for all of us. Why would yo ...

There is so much paranoia exhibited in some of these posts that is difficult to know where to start.

I have been flying model aircraft for decades, and have been a member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) for as long. One of the first things one learns is that these models are on an electronic leash, which is susceptible to interference and/or corruption at any instant, which at some point WILL result in the loss of the control signal. At the speeds  we often fly, these 5-10 lb models can be inherently dangerous, especially when flown around buildings or people.

The AMA is well aware of the problems with these modern, remotely controlled drones with remotely controlled cameras and FPV capabilities, and are working with the FAA to preserve our modeling hobby freedoms, which we have enjoyed for decades. But the recent introduction of these latest modeling innovations, and the reckless mis-use by showoff idiots like Raphael Pirker can potentially ruin a splendid hobby for everyone. Some common sense has to be applied by every model flyer, which seems to be sadly lacking in many young jerks anxious to get their showoff videos uploaded to Youtube.
Time for some rational, experienced adults to step up and take a stand, for a hobby that has resulted in the greatest and safest aviation environment in the world. And make no mistake, the FAA, no matter how much you may malign the agency, has been a big part of that safety record. Which is why its standards and procedures are copied by others throughout the world.


2014-11-29
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules