Excellent communication and clearly outlined. You are looking out for the consumer and this is greatly appreciated. The P4 also reportedly loses altitude when you come to a stop and therefore does not feel as stable as the P3 that preceded it.

DroneSpeed,

The issue of range of the P3 vs the P4.  Note per DJI HQ they both have the same Lightbridge hardware.  We have been able to meet or exceed the rated range on the beta P4's.  I will say that the tests that were done were in environments that were devoid of interference for the most part.  The issues that have been reported have been mostly in urban environments.  I would recommend to those users to click on the HD icon and select custom and choose the channel with the least interference, -100 is best, and then move the transmission rate to 4mbps.  That will improve their range.

The issue with the flight times.  Users are taking a brand new battery that has not been conditioned and trying to fly to the maximum flight times.  Batteries need to be flown to normal 30/15 warnings for more than one flight until you get the maximum out of them.  My batteries continue to improve after multiple flights.  As an Apple Executive, I am surprised that you are posting here rather than taking this to you Senior Management to address these issues with DJI.  I have forwarded this to DJI's Senior Management.  I hope that you do the same.

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2016-3-23 18:33
DroneSpeed,

The issue of range of the P3 vs the P4.  Note per DJI HQ they both have the same Lightb ...

Ok same hardware. And same power output Ed?

Obviously people have different filming needs but this is a bit of a deal breaker for me so I'll hold off on an upgrade until the picture becomes clearer. I regularly fly far out over water filming ships and even with LightBridge 1 in CE mode in Europe I get over 3Km with the P3A.

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2016-3-23 13:33
DroneSpeed,

The issue of range of the P3 vs the P4.  Note per DJI HQ they both have the same Lightb ...

LOL you spoke what I was thinking.  When I first read this I thought (without a p4 yet) that it at least was a clearly conveyed summary of issues that a lot of people are claiming to experience with the p4.

Then I was checking out some other threads that he copy pasted this same "letter" into and thought "This guy is an executive for Apple, a company that sells DJI products in their outlets,  and he thought this was the best course of action?"  

I work for in the Corporate HQ for a Fortune 500 and I can't picture any of our execs copy pasting a complaint letter on an internet forum, especially on the site of a company we have a vendor relationship with.   (during business hours on a Wednesday no less)

This leads me to believe that he either a. Made this up to bolster his argument or b.  probably missed some of Apple's training on appropriate conduct.

All things equal, I think Ed has a valid response to both perceived issues.   Many people are flying in residential neighborhoods and urban areas.  In an age where everyone has a wi-fi network in their home, wireless printers, cell phones, cordless phones etc.   RF interference will hurt your range.  This is true in almost all similar tech.   
Edit*:This is also a very dynamic situation even in the same location.  Many devices change channels looking for the least interference, and some devices like printers can come by default with wireless signals on that can cause interference.   Also in dense populations it's impossible to say what RF devices are being introduced or removed from an environment on a daily basis.  When I was in college I worked for a large consumer electronics retailer, and we were having some major RF interference issues with many devices and networks.  A firm came in and created a hot map of RF interference zones,  and the majority of the interference at the time was like a giant red cloud over the printer aisle. One (very popular) brand of printers had wifi enabled by default on every single model,  and they also defaulted to channels commonly used by routers and other devices.

Point being, there is infinite variables. So while it may be easier to just spout theories with varying levels of supporting evidence,  Until ALL variables are accounted for it is simply speculation.  That said, This device was released a week ago.   Have you ever thought that rather than jump to conclusions to mitigate temper tantrums, they are actually addressing this through proper controlled testing?  Does apple respond to every person let alone admit to fault on their forum when they booger up a firmware release? No.  Their PR team would not allow for this, they get to work retesting and validating the fix, and then push it out immediately (usually with very little public comment).  Being an exec for them I'm sure you know this already.

As for battery life,  I just find it hard to believe that less than a week after release,  most of these people have properly broken these batteries in.  All the P3 batteries I have had  noticeably shorter flight times when they were out of the box vs. properly broken in.   Also Not Dronespeed,  but others have made similar complaints while simultaneously stating that they were flying at speed/in sport mode/in winds which basically invalidates their claims right off the bat.  They also never seem to have data that supports the claim.

It seems like (much like the P3)  most of the complaints I'm seeing surrounding these issues could just as easily be explained by user error/ environmental conditions  and until these people can provide the readily available data to support their claims,  said claims should be taken with a large grain of salt.

Before I get ripped, I'd just like to state once again, I am not affiliated with DJI in any way.  I'm a happy P3P user who is keeping a close eye on these issues with the P4 with hopes of upgrading in the future.

I'm calling BS on you being an Apple Executive, I have never known Apple wash their dirty linen in public. Working in a company that sells 3rd party items I know if I did any communications outside approved internal channels my career would be very short lived.

I added to my above post,  I'm sure you have personally tested with all of the above variables controlled.


"Edit*:This is also a very dynamic situation even in the same location.  Many devices change channels looking for the least interference, and some devices like printers can come by default with wireless signals on that can cause interference.   Also in dense populations it's impossible to say what RF devices are being introduced or removed from an environment on a daily basis.  When I was in college I worked for a large consumer electronics retailer, and we were having some major RF interference issues with many devices and networks.  A firm came in and created a hot map of RF interference zones,  and the majority of the interference at the time was like a giant red cloud over the printer aisle. One (very popular) brand of printers had wifi enabled by default on every single model,  and they also defaulted to channels commonly used by routers and other devices.

Point being, there is infinite variables. So while it may be easier to just spout theories with varying levels of supporting evidence,  Until ALL variables are accounted for it is simply speculation.  That said, This device was released a week ago.   Have you ever thought that rather than jump to conclusions to mitigate temper tantrums, they are actually addressing this through proper controlled testing?  Does apple respond to every person let alone admit to fault on their forum when they booger up a firmware release? No.  Their PR team would not allow for this, they get to work retesting and validating the fix, and then push it out immediately (usually with very little public comment).  Being an exec for them I'm sure you know this already."

DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-23 14:47
(1) Do you think this is the only course of action I am taking?
(2) I am an experienced pilot, and  ...

I didn't try to explain it away as user error at all.  I simply stated in the majority of the posts I've seen,  there was no evidence to rule user error OR environment out.

You make a lot of claims such as regarding FCC filings for transmission power , but you don't link to where you've proved this supposed change would lead to a 50% decrease in range as you claim or how you've ruled out all other possible factors for this symptom.  This is a pretty bold claim to make while stating you are an Apple executive based on an antecdote.
Im just supposed to take the online apple exec's word that a supposed 20% decrease in transmission power = 50% decrease in range.   Again I'm not stating it isn't true, I'm saying you have offered zero evidence other than antecdotes and supposed credentials.

I agree wholly with DroneSpeed. Whether he is an Apple Exec I don't know. I do know that the problems he is talking about I and many others have noticed and his logic is sound with the reports from the FCC

DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-24 03:57
The FCC demonstrates that the P4 remote has 20% LESS power than the P3 remote.  https://fccid.io/SS3 ...

I responded to your other threads
In the other thread I told you how to test and you will get the same results.

A public forum is just the place to air these issues, especially if you're not getting an acknowledgement of any issues... Public communication is a far stronger force than discreet polite but ignored letters to VPs....  Thanks Dronespeed for the efforts you're making.  It may feel like pushing water up hill but hopefully it will get you some acknowledgment from DJI and lead to some improvements.
Best of luck
Ian

I do understand that it is not a linear equation but while you state professionals have tested these theories, you make no mentions of any specifics, or how their testing accounts for other potential variables.

I don't disagree with a lot of the content of your post,  I am just curious for the background data and tend to be suspicious of people who include not technical credentials but a title in a post like this. While you do provide a lot of info that is interesting to me, IMO there is a lot of underlying information which could provide a more definitive answer that seems to be missing.   I am loyal to a brand until it stops being loyal to me,   or until a competitor comes out with a product with a distinct advantage I can take advantage of.    As of now,  My experience overall with DJI has been a positive one, but that doesn't mean that I have blinders on when the evidence is in my face that they have acted in bad faith.    All I've stated is that you seem to ask questions and then while it may be due to lack of responsiveness on DJI's part, you seem to come to your own conclusions, without all facts to support them.  You also didn't address ( I understand you aren't obligated to)  your own company's protocol.  While Apple is known for their service in their retail outlets,  They also are known for not admitting fault or not having any comment  where there is a firmware or hardware issue until it comes time to roll out the fix.   Do you think that DJI may also feels that it is counterintuitive to offer precanned or generic responses or apologies instead of doing their own testing to verify an actual issue exists and rolling out a fix?   

Let's say you are right,  DJI knows of these issues and have confirmed them but remained tight lipped.  Would your legal team at Apple allow you to publicly admit fault before a contingency plan was in place opening you up to potentially company damaging litigation?  I'm not trying to be an A$$ I'm genuinely curious.

DS, I have told you we have not been able to replicate the issue that you bring up.  That does not mean that it does not exist.  You can continue to drone on here or let your management team and DJI's come to a resolution.  That is up to you but it does not appear that you are looking for a solution, only to discredit DJI which is a strong partner of Apple.  

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2016-3-23 13:46
DS, I have told you we have not been able to replicate the issue that you bring up.  That does not m ...

Can you explain to the engineers in the audience how you reduced the transmit power by 20% but maintained the same range? I am not saying this is impossible with improved antenna design but I would like to know. I would also like to know why you reduced the transmit power. Please be transparent. The way you handle this issue could make all the difference.

On the battery issue, I believe I am seeing longer battery life after seven flights to around 50% than I was on the first few flights. I am open to the idea that the battery could have improved life after it is conditioned and will withhold judgement until after 10 flights when I start using the full battery.

It seems to me you are trying to pressure someone into saying something you can use to discredit them later.  Ed is I believe a moderator,  while the moderators here are very responsive he is obviously not who a confirmation like that should come from.   In fact he literally just said they have not been able to replicate the issue at all, so obviously, No he probably isn't going give you direct confirmation they are "actively working on this issue" (and therefor confirming and issue in the first place). When he just very clearly stated they cannot replicate the issue.

ryan209 Posted at 2016-3-23 14:08
It seems to me you are trying to pressure someone into saying something you can use to discredit the ...

Under normal circumstances you may have a point but in this case they are telling the customers something different than they are telling the FCC. That is a very serious problem.

An issue*. Again phantom 4 was release 8 days ago.  Should I start listing all the issues with apple products that lingered longer than 8 days with out an official response from the company or a personal letter from a VP?

grangerfx@gmail Posted at 2016-3-24 05:10
Under normal circumstances you may have a point but in this case they are telling the customers so ...

I do agree this is concerning, however stating the light bridge hardware is the same while possibly disingenuous, is not necessarily false do to reduced transmitter power in the remote.  I agree that if the range is significantly reduced they obviously can not continue to advertise the same spec, although I'm keeping an open mind till some objective verifiable evidence pops up

ryan209 Posted at 2016-3-23 14:13
An issue*. Again phantom 4 was release 8 days ago.  Should I start listing all the issues with apple ...

I think if Apple released a product that claimed to be as fast or faster than their previous product and it turned out to be considerably slower, they would not wait days for a response. They would say they were looking into the problem and then would likely issue a recall.

Due*. One thing I do hate about DJI is the mobile version of the forum

DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-24 04:52
Thank you for your response Tahoe-Ed. I appreciate you being more communicative than anyone else a ...

Our Management team will be in contact with Apple.

I can't think of one instance of Apple issuing a recall of a major product line but many where firmware was insecure or faulty and no comment was made till an update was released.   The big caveat is that if it was a percentage of users less than .1% of the user base,  and apple couldn't recreate the issue themselves you can be assured of no recall and more than likely no statement.

ryan209 Posted at 2016-3-23 14:17
Due*. One thing I do hate about DJI is the mobile version of the forum

Actually Apple is facing exactly this kind of problem right now with the new iPad Pro. Apple never announces how much RAM their mobile products have (a serious mistake IMHO) and now that policy is going to bite them. The 9.7" iPad Pro has half the RAM of the original iPad Pro (2GB vs 4GB). That makes it significantly less useful for "pro" type applications. In fact I would hesitate to call it "pro" at all. As of today this is still just a rumor but if true it would be a similar kind of problem for Apple as DJI is facing with the Phantom 4's range. Although they never said the new iPad had the same RAM as the previous Pro, they also never said it didn't. Developers like me are hoping Apple will announce XCode for the iPad Pro but I don't see that happening on the 9.7" version.

You haven't provided any objective data yet just anecdotes and other anecdotes "forum users" posted so I guess you guys are on par.

Ditto with the typos.   Maybe if you had addressed the issue as a consumer instead of trying to throw your company's prominence around the interaction would have been different.  You are stating what amount to veiled threats of action from Apple, or negative press, and are surprised nobody is dropping what they are doing to deal with you.   

I agree the devices should operate as stated.  I also believe that there are lots of people using P4's without any of the mentioned issues.   Complex CE devices can suffer from defect and those people who experience them are always the loudest voice in the room.  Why aren't these forums filled with glowing reviews?  Because most of the products DJI makes work well and people are out enjoying them (I would be if it wasn't raining today)

So again I'm not saying people aren't experiencing issues,  but a recall, an admission of guilt, a personal letter to each affected individual is just not how companies do business when only a small percentage of users are being affected by an issue they can't replicate.

Both those issues are serious, and to me sweeping it under the rug just doesn't make sense when eventually there will be verifiable controlled testing done by 3rd parties in the industry and they will be exposed.
But it's hard to fix an issue you can't recreate.  Maybe they are working on the fix and just taking a page out of apple's playbook?

http://www.macworld.com/article/ ... sis_management.html

from the apple god himself:

Consider what Steve Jobs said at Apple’s hastily-assembled iPhone 4 antenna press conference.

We heard about [reception problems] 22 days ago and have been working our butts off. It’s not like we’ve had our heads in the sand for three months.

And here’s what he told All Things D’s Ina Fried on Wednesday:

We’re an engineering-driven company… When people accuse us of things, the first thing we want to do is find out the truth. That took a certain amount of time to track all of these things down. And the accusations were coming day by day. By the time we had figured this all out, it took a few days. Then writing it up and trying to make it intelligible when this is a very high-tech topic took a few days. And here we are less than a week later.