Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Water color sharping Issue!
21841 277 2017-2-8
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
DJI-Ken
DJI team
Flight distance : 1515312 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

chriztian Posted at 2017-2-16 23:18
Nice to see how he simply ignores a simple question. Well What should I buy a drone for if not for filming?? Could you PLEASE answer my questions? Why should I exchange my drone if this is a camera limitation and why do you do marketing with features, the drone can not deliver? Not that I want to do this, but I wonder if this would even fit a lawsuit.

What question, the Mavic records 1080 60/90 and for my use it's perfectly fine.
2017-2-17
Use props
chriztian
lvl.1
Germany
Offline

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-17 06:49
What question, the Mavic records 1080 60/90 and for my use it's perfectly fine.

I notice it is not possible to discuss here. Look at at this video for instance. he's comparing a gopro with the mavic 1080p 60fps.

What is your use? Tell me? What do you use the mavic for if not for filming? Just to fly around, it is to expensive. The camera is broken. You can record with > 30fps, but you can't use the video as it looks rubbish. My own example proves it. And a lot of other videos also prove it. And you are still sitting there saying everything is good. no it's not. Your attitude about this whole topic, just saying it's fine for you really makes me mad.
And again you don't read my posts as it seems!! I asked what kind of sense does it make to exchange my mavic if you previously say that EVERY mavic has this problem?
2017-2-17
Use props
richard56
lvl.4
Flight distance : 675869 ft
United States
Offline

I have a question/comment about the sharpening issue or watercolor issue.  I had not experienced it within my first 69 flights I have logged.  Not sure how many hours of video, but there are over 9 hours of flight time.  I began to use litchi for the first time yesterday and the sharpening issue appears... I have not tried the Pal/NTSC workaround yet as the weather came in after I reviewed footage on my computer.  Are those that have the "watercolor issue" using litchi?  I have not had a chance to go back and fly on Go4 yet, but I will try next week.  Will not see dry weather for another week it appears.  It may have been a setting in Litchi as well.  It appears that it does not have the same settings and I have not figured all of them out yet.  I was hoping most of my settings would transfer over.  
2017-2-17
Use props
DJI-Ken
DJI team
Flight distance : 1515312 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

chriztian Posted at 2017-2-17 07:50
I notice it is not possible to discuss here. Look at at this video for instance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0fYyMXYZPQ he's comparing a gopro with the mavic 1080p 60fps.

What is your use? Tell me? What do you use the mavic for if not for filming? Just to fly around, it is to expensive. The camera is broken. You can record with > 30fps, but you can't use the video as it looks rubbish. My own example proves it. And a lot of other videos also prove it. And you are still sitting there saying everything is good. no it's not. Your attitude about this whole topic, just saying it's fine for you really makes me mad.

You said you are withing the exchange period, the Mavic is what it is and since you deemed it unusable I don't understand why you have not started the exchange yet.
As I said before, thousands of people are perfectly happy with it. If you are not then exchange it.
2017-2-17
Use props
chriztian
lvl.1
Germany
Offline

DJI-Ken Posted at 2017-2-17 08:43
You said you are withing the exchange period, the Mavic is what it is and since you deemed it unusable I don't understand why you have not started the exchange yet.
As I said before, thousands of people are perfectly happy with it. If you are not then exchange it.

You don't see my point and never did. I said you trick your customer by telling them they can use > 30 fps but in fact they can't as the video is just not usable. You are simply not interested in this point which is a good to know.

The main reason why you are selling drones is because ppl want to use it to make videos and photos. It's simply a shame how you behave in this topic. At least you could answer the question why dji is not writing on their homepage as one of the first sentences that the mavic is only able to shoot with 30fps if you want to have clear footage >30 fps is reserved for the goggles. It's that simple.
2017-2-17
Use props
jjmucker
lvl.1

United Kingdom
Offline

This was after firmware update. Granted, i never did the camera reset afterwards but look at the state of that!
Yes i focused, and focused again, and again, and again.
where is dji going with this? is it getting fixed, can it be fixed? it annoys me that we are all trying to do "hacks" to stop this from happening on a 1K quadcopter.
D-Log 30fps 4k -0 0 0
2017-2-18
Use props
boostedford
Second Officer
Flight distance : 144478 ft
United States
Offline

there used to be a camera focus calibration in the app about 3 firmware updates ago maybe they should of left it probably the fix to all of this?
2017-2-18
Use props
jjmucker
lvl.1

United Kingdom
Offline

boostedford Posted at 2017-2-18 12:08
there used to be a camera focus calibration in the app about 3 firmware updates ago maybe they should of left it probably the fix to all of this?

I dont remember that. Maybe it would. It's the fact it only happens now and then, other times is great, it baffles me
2017-2-18
Use props
CaptainFantasti
lvl.4
Flight distance : 48868 ft
Switzerland
Offline

jjmucker Posted at 2017-2-18 03:20
This was after firmware update. Granted, i never did the camera reset afterwards but look at the state of that!
Yes i focused, and focused again, and again, and again.
where is dji going with this? is it getting fixed, can it be fixed? it annoys me that we are all trying to do "hacks" to stop this from happening on a 1K quadcopter.

Are you sure this was with 0-0-0? does look like -3 to me. But anyway, they need to change how to encoder works that's for sure.

@ chriztian can you plz stop hijacking the thread with you "false advertising" issue. Thanks
2017-2-19
Use props
jjmucker
lvl.1

United Kingdom
Offline

Actually, it may have been -1 sharpen but still, that is the worst I've seen it.
I now do the PAL-NTSC-PAL before every flight now and this seems to work. Not ideal but hopefully dji will get their finger out and release a firmware update because this is a Noise Reduction issue which is software so this should be a simple fix for them. As easy as having the ability to disable noise reduction completely should the end error want to .
2017-2-19
Use props
DroneFlying
Captain
Flight distance : 10774613 ft
United States
Offline

Mad Photo boy Posted at 2017-2-19 12:44
*user has been banned for violating forum rules and post has been deleted*

Hmmm, there's something strangely familiar about your avatar. I can't quite place it, though I'm sure it'll come to me in a minute. Oh, wait, I think I got it: by any chance are you related to this guy?
2017-2-19
Use props
alirz5
Second Officer
Flight distance : 609833 ft
Canada
Offline

DroneFlying Posted at 2017-2-19 12:56
Hmmm, there's something strangely familiar about your avatar. I can't quite place it, though I'm sure it'll come to me in a minute. Oh, wait, I think I got it: by any chance are you related to this guy?

yeh, welcome back!!!
2017-2-19
Use props
DroneFlying
Captain
Flight distance : 10774613 ft
United States
Offline

Mad Photo boy Posted at 2017-2-19 13:21
*user has been banned for violating forum rules and post has been deleted*

Ah, ok. I won't tell anyone: it'll just be our little secret.
2017-2-19
Use props
jjmucker
lvl.1

United Kingdom
Offline

I love your dedication dude.  
2017-2-19
Use props
daivatam
lvl.4
Flight distance : 473389 ft
Romania
Offline

Also I observed now after reading this thread some way back that the 0 and +1 sharpness make a huge difference on low light shooting...at +1 the image it is perfectly clear with all the detail but noise is visible even in day light and the things get over sharped in day light, at 0 in poor or low light the video become to mushy. Best case will be when the user could access NR parameters in some way and has fine control over NR and sharpness. How it is now the -3/0/+3 on all correction it is way to step.
2017-2-19
Use props
jjmucker
lvl.1

United Kingdom
Offline

Did a few tests today. ( again )
I let the camera record whilst doing this, 4K, 24fps PAL. Had it on D-Log, 0-0-0 all round.
Footage looked great, went into and changed it to -1 sharpen, and the very moment i did that, NR kicked in and went horrible, and not horrible as in, oh its taken the sharpen down to -1, horrible as in, the dreaded water color effect - too much NR! Thats the first time ive seen it actually do it in real time.
And no post processing with your favourite editor will bring back that detail, ever.

The reason i know thats not what -1 should look like is because ive had it at -1 before and it looked nothing like that. When it works as it should, -1 should give you enough detail to bring back in post.

I then put it back to 0 sharpen but no effect, the NR cannot be removed.
A quick PAL-NTSC-PAL reset sorted it out.

I think we can all agree its a NR software problem. I dont claim to be an expert but you'd think a simple firmware update to have the end user disbale NR from within the app.
I dont think thats the only thing that triggers it though, i guess thats for dji to find out ( if they do )

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qdo4749prekq72d/NR.mp4?dl=0
2017-2-20
Use props
CaptainFantasti
lvl.4
Flight distance : 48868 ft
Switzerland
Offline

daivatam Posted at 2017-2-19 16:47
Also I observed now after reading this thread some way back that the 0 and -1 sharpness make a huge difference on low light shooting...at -1 the image it is perfectly clear with all the detail but noise is visible at 0 become to mushy best will be that the user could access NR parameters in some way.

are you sure it wasn't to other way around?


I did some tests with my new polar pro ND's today and -1&0 looked horrible. Super strange since 0
worked all right before as long as there was enough light.
2017-2-20
Use props
CaptainFantasti
lvl.4
Flight distance : 48868 ft
Switzerland
Offline

You are also dealing with humans so watch your tone please. I appreciate that you are fighting for a fix though. The camera is capable of creating better video for sure and it should be fixable with a firmware update also. They said they are looking into it, so let's have some (more;-) patience.
2017-2-20
Use props
daivatam
lvl.4
Flight distance : 473389 ft
Romania
Offline

CaptainFantasti Posted at 2017-2-20 09:26
are you sure it wasn't to other way around?

Yep, not really focused when I write that...I make it right now. Tx! Indeed with +1 sharpness in low light/interior light the image it is better ...better because it retain all the details vs no noise but mushy watercolor style...but the noise will be also visible...fine noise but there...in day light +1 it is not so good because the sharpness become to hard...and even then the noise will be visible.
2017-2-21
Use props
delsol95
First Officer
Flight distance : 7707018 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

CaptainFantasti Posted at 2017-2-20 09:26
are you sure it wasn't to other way around?

Just shot in 4K 30fps.  I was using an ND filter and have the water color issue too.  According to Mavic I was underexposed by -.7  Image looked perfectly exposed to me when I was composing shot (snow).  It looks like leaving it at -.7 caused the noise reduction to kick in and water color issue to appear.  Here's a screen capture from the vid.
snow.jpg
2017-2-22
Use props
delsol95
First Officer
Flight distance : 7707018 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

delsol95 Posted at 2017-2-22 19:26
Just shot in 4K 30fps.  I was using an ND filter and have the water color issue too.  According to Mavic I was underexposed by -.7  Image looked perfectly exposed to me when I was composing shot (snow).  It looks like leaving it at -.7 caused the noise reduction to kick in and water color issue to appear.  Here's a screen capture from the vid.

More water coloring. {:4_154:}
DTLA.jpg
2017-2-22
Use props
CaptainFantasti
lvl.4
Flight distance : 48868 ft
Switzerland
Offline


Sharpness setting? I expose for the highlights not the internal meter.
2017-2-23
Use props
delsol95
First Officer
Flight distance : 7707018 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

CaptainFantasti Posted at 2017-2-23 02:53
Sharpness setting? I expose for the highlights not the internal meter.


Sharpness set to 0.  Problem is Noise Reduction is over-aggressive and there's no way to control when it goes on or off.  (I can't remember how it was with my old Phantom 4, but I thought there was an option to turn it on/off.)  With Mavic, I don't see that option.  
2017-2-23
Use props
jjmucker
lvl.1

United Kingdom
Offline

It's their NR software doing a terrible terrible job, for whatever reason. If you have neat video installed, you can mimic this look ruining neat video. Dji should be able to send out a firmware and app update and give the end user the ability to switch this on or off. It should be that simple
2017-2-23
Use props
alirz5
Second Officer
Flight distance : 609833 ft
Canada
Offline

A while back DJI Ken had mentioned that this issue was raised to the R&D team. I hope they are still looking into this.
2017-2-24
Use props
DJI-Thor
Administrator
Flight distance : 13602 ft
Online

alirz5 Posted at 2017-2-24 18:13
A while back DJI Ken had mentioned that this issue was raised to the R&D team. I hope they are still looking into this.

They're fully aware of this and will say something when there is a solution.
2017-2-25
Use props
seleznev
lvl.1
Flight distance : 45627 ft
Russia
Offline

Got the same problem! It's not a problem for me to shoot in 30p, but I understand that I need to reset PAL settings to be sure in better result. It really looks like software problem not as hot spot in the center. So I think DJI must to solve it in next firmware update. I understand that the size of camera and sensor are small, but look to mobile devices - the provide good quality. So hope for solving because we all buy Mavic not only for easier transportation and flying but for video and photo too! Hey, somebody from DJI, please help us to be happy!
2017-2-25
Use props
rydfree41
Second Officer
Flight distance : 153268 ft
United States
Offline

I've never had a problem with the water color effect but after reading this entire thread I have noticed my friend's Inspire did look funny when I took a pic of it !
.
.
.
.
.
.
Sorry ,had to laugh .
dji.jpg
dji.jpg
2017-2-25
Use props
daivatam
lvl.4
Flight distance : 473389 ft
Romania
Offline

yep the camera on mavic has to many problems to be considered matching the drone and price...yellow spot in center, NR kicking hard and rendering video very poor, impossible to use for video 1080 resolution...frequent shaking gimbal...frequent sensor/lens misalignment   this is the reality...for the 1080 part the dji does wrong because they should state from the start that it is for googles only and not filming. Also they should optimize more before launching the camera and lens to rid out the yellow spot and to do a better qc control....for misalignment...an for other problems...a lot of mavics came with some sort of factory malfunction or shipping damage. MY mavic like on others had the plastic body deformed in 2-3 places on top front part like some finger over pressure or heat deformed depressions...now when I put some glossy skin on it it is more visible. Bun all in all for what it is and what it offer I am happy with it but not so  cheerful about dji...they should do better until the end, when they created and designed such good device...now they only loose respect on their hand. Mentioned also the wast delay of shipping the product?
2017-2-25
Use props
alirz5
Second Officer
Flight distance : 609833 ft
Canada
Offline

rydfree41 Posted at 2017-2-25 13:41
I've never had a problem with the water color effect but after reading this entire thread I have noticed my friend's Inspire did look funny when I took a pic of it !
.
.

Dude those pics cannot be for real. They are just too bad. I know the camera on the mavic is bad but it's not that bad. Everything in your pictures is like water paint... are you messing with us.
2017-2-25
Use props
seleznev
lvl.1
Flight distance : 45627 ft
Russia
Offline

Just want to confirm that reset of PAL and shooting in 2,7K 30fps gave much much better effect. But the yellow spot - its terrible. Now I see it even on iphone screen.
2017-2-26
Use props
fans27f1786c
New

United Kingdom
Offline

Hey all,

I recently had to ship my Mavic off for repair and I made a quick video about the entire process.
Documenting emails, procedure and timescales.





Hopefully it may be of interest to some.
I had a camera/sensor issue which started with what's mentioned here, oil painting lack of focus etc onto the final problem.
In the video is a link to the actual footage I had to send to DJI before they'd even look at the Mavic.


Thanks,

-Aidan
2017-2-26
Use props
rydfree41
Second Officer
Flight distance : 153268 ft
United States
Offline

alirz5 Posted at 2017-2-25 20:06
Dude those pics cannot be for real. They are just too bad. I know the camera on the mavic is bad but it's not that bad. Everything in your pictures is like water paint... are you messing with us.

No that's a REAL water color ,lol
2017-2-26
Use props
fansdb6ff1f7
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1998786 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

I Just finished a project  (Latest firmware Art. -1,-1, 0). The shots are immaculate. The footage is perfect. Lots of trees. No mush. No water colour. Focus stunning. Truly incredible definition. Minimal Post and it's superb.  The problem is this. From experience I know full well that I could land The Mavic. Power down. Walk 100 yards up the field. Re boot it and it the results would be totally different. I know this because it's happened to me and numerous others on this and other forums. Anyone who works with computers or cameras or software is prepared to accept that they have glitches. Getting to know that there are tricks & work arounds that you need to employ to get results. mastering these techniques is part of the skill. Otherwise everyone could do it. The problem with this piece of kit is that the issues that occur are totally random, unpredictable and seemingly impossible to forecast or replicate. As an operator If you can't replicate it, you can't fix it. I don't expect it to be out of the box perfect. Regarding ease of use It's the Canon / Nikon argument. I'd go Nikon every time because I want to master the setup. I've not contacted DJI because I'm too busy running my business which in which I'd hoped the Mavic could be employed but I can't trust it to yield predictable results in it's present state. The stories on the forums where users have come back from foreign trips with unusable footage is really, really bad for the Company. All the promo vids on the website now appear a little ... jaded. If the manufacturer could let us know officially (No offence Ken)  that this was being addressed it would mean a lot and I would suggest that the place to start is in my example. "Walk 100 yards up the field. Re boot it and it the results would be totally different". ........ "Reboot" .. It's not the hardware..  
2017-2-27
Use props
Ex Machina
Captain
Flight distance : 1806362 ft
United States
Offline

fansdb6ff1f7 Posted at 2017-2-27 03:58
I Just finished a project  (Latest firmware Art. -1,-1, 0). The shots are immaculate. The footage is perfect. Lots of trees. No mush. No water colour. Focus stunning. Truly incredible definition. Minimal Post and it's superb.  The problem is this. From experience I know full well that I could land The Mavic. Power down. Walk 100 yards up the field. Re boot it and it the results would be totally different. I know this because it's happened to me and numerous others on this and other forums. Anyone who works with computers or cameras or software is prepared to accept that they have glitches. Getting to know that there are tricks & work arounds that you need to employ to get results. mastering these techniques is part of the skill. Otherwise everyone could do it. The problem with this piece of kit is that the issues that occur are totally random, unpredictable and seemingly impossible to forecast or replicate. As an operator If you can't replicate it, you can't fix it. I don't expect it to be out of the box perfect. Regarding ease of use It's the Canon / Nikon argument. I'd go Nikon every time because I want to master the setup. I've not contacted DJI because I'm too busy running my business which in which I'd hoped the Mavic could be employed but I can't trust it to yield predictable results in it's present state. The stories on the forums where users have come back from foreign trips with unusable footage is really, really bad for the Company. All the promo vids on the website now appear a little ... jaded. If the manufacturer could let us know officially (No offence Ken)  that this was being addressed it would mean a lot and I would suggest that the place to start is in my example. "Walk 100 yards up the field. Re boot it and it the results would be totally different". ........ "Reboot" .. It's not the hardware..

I tried this reboot the camera to PAL and back to NTSC suggestion yesterday and couldn't tell a difference. Has anyone captured video before and after switching that demonstrates the effect?

I rather suspect the issue has more to do with the ambient light level than anything else -- when there's strong lighting, the camera stack does an admirable job for what it is, in low light, it does the best it can.

That said, maybe my camera is just working properly.
2017-2-28
Use props
MadImage BOI
lvl.1

United States
Offline

so what is DJI doing what the update they keep deleting  my post !
2017-2-28
Use props
Quadcoptercrazy
lvl.1
Flight distance : 1013038 ft
United States
Offline

Question about this whole watercolor issue.  Did you guys see the issue right out of the box or did it happen over time?
2017-2-28
Use props
Willik
Second Officer
Flight distance : 638796 ft
Czechia
Offline

Ex Machina Posted at 2017-2-28 14:53
I tried this reboot the camera to PAL and back to NTSC suggestion yesterday and couldn't tell a difference. Has anyone captured video before and after switching that demonstrates the effect?

I rather suspect the issue has more to do with the ambient light level than anything else -- when there's strong lighting, the camera stack does an admirable job for what it is, in low light, it does the best it can.

Exactly my experience. Ambient light or poor light conds outside make this effect more visible.
And also I can confirm if you don't touch the sharpness setting and stay at 0, it is better till the moment you set it for -1 for the first time. Then returning to 0 doesn't(!) work. Only the soft reset of the camera can help again (no matter if you do it via "reset all camera settings" or swith to PAL/NTSC and back - the second option I see as better since it doesn't delete all cam settings, just hot-restarts the camera).
It's clear that watercolor issue is caused by heavy post-processing in the Mavic internal SW, (NR & smoothening) visible at JPGs.
E.g. look at DNGs (Adobe RAWs) they all have significant vignette (darker corners) - this is a HW limitation of poor optics. But JPGs don't have vignettes - this meens Mavic DOES a lot of processing when shooting/filming. This is also connected with the red hot spot visible at JPGs / yellow warm center area at MGPs vids - all more visible under the poor light conds. So from my point of view, SW is trying to do the best to correct HW deficiences what are (known but from the marketing point of wiew yet) hidden to public.

I also suspect a bit the Adobe influence here. DNG is their standard (e.g. Nikon doesn't use DNGs), and embding this type of processing into HW (DJI and others) producers' FW makes great connection, doesn't it? You can go and buy AdobeLightroom and get many plug-ins (patches) for vignette correction, red hot spot corrections, and more! (Available specially for Phantom 3, 4, maybe for Mavic soon). And guess what (!?) - you can get rid of all these issues at once (!) by a sipmle click "apply patch" to the batch of DNG images (works also for Mavic red-hot spot and watercolor!) - sounds like a pure miracle, what you think? :-)

2017-3-1
Use props
alirz5
Second Officer
Flight distance : 609833 ft
Canada
Offline

came across a video on youtube. Sure the lighting conditions are bad. But damn, look at all the water color effect. Trees, building everything.

2017-3-1
Use props
Ex Machina
Captain
Flight distance : 1806362 ft
United States
Offline

alirz5 Posted at 2017-3-1 17:12
came across a video on youtube. Sure the lighting conditions are bad. But damn, look at all the water color effect. Trees, building everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBm_lSYarOU

That looks like an esthetic treatment, none of my lower light video looks remotely like that.
2017-3-1
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules