Hey guys -

My agency has permission to fly inside of an exposition center during an event, but before the crowd enters. The issue is, the building sits directly next to an airport in Class B airspace. Like literally next to the runway. I thought it may give me problems, and sure enough I couldn't even take off.

Is there any way to disable the no fly zone feature in the DJI Go 4 app?

Thanks,

No, FAA has no jurisdiction indoors, but you will need to ask DJI for temporary lifting the NFZ for you.

I'm surprised you can get your satellites indoors.  I've heard a few layers of foil on top of the bird will block the gps antenna from the satellites.  Good luck.  

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-3-4 11:58
I'm surprised you can get your satellites indoors.  I've heard a few layers of foil on top of the bird will block the gps antenna from the satellites.  Good luck.

I guess it all depends on the type of construction and the location, but normally I see 6-8 sats indoor. However, I wouldn't rely on them at all. I really like UAV Weather app, which shows you how many sats to expect at any given location and time. You can set up the minimum number you accept as safe for flying, but this is for outdoor of course.

Cover the GPS sensor ?

Matt-and-Riley Posted at 2017-3-4 13:09
Cover the GPS sensor ?

That is a good option, I have seen this before

Are you saying if you cover the drone before starting up and it is in ATTI mode can you fly next to an airport? or does it still know because the GPS is still running in the background ?

Snowwolfwarrior Posted at 2017-3-4 13:28
Are you saying if you cover the drone before starting up and it is in ATTI mode can you fly next to an airport? or does it still know because the GPS is still running in the background ?

I have that feeling, but not proven. Atti is just telling the flight controller what to do, the drone still knows where it is. But if you cover the sensor then it can't know anything about it's location.

It's right on top and when I pick mine up from above I always loose GPS, doesn't take much to block the very week signals.

Snowwolfwarrior Posted at 2017-3-4 13:28
Are you saying if you cover the drone before starting up and it is in ATTI mode can you fly next to an airport? or does it still know because the GPS is still running in the background ?

If you have the Phantom in sight, and you are indoor, you don't need GPS. And if you do not have GPS the Phantom does not know where it is located

Bullflyer Posted at 2017-3-4 13:42
If you have the Phantom in sight, and you are indoor, you don't need GPS. And if you do not have GPS the Phantom does not know where it is located

No, that is not true, you cannot switch off the GPS, it will always know where it is if it is able to receive satellites. And it can refuse to startt up if it knows it is inside a NFZ.
The best solution to this probloem is to use a non-DJI aircraft that does not implement a GEO system.

Geebax Posted at 2017-3-4 14:43
No, that is not true, you cannot switch off the GPS, it will always know where it is if it is able to receive satellites. And it can refuse to startt up if it knows it is inside a NFZ.
The best solution to this probloem is to use a non-DJI aircraft that does not implement a GEO system.

How about a non-dji app, Litchi doesn't care?

It doesn't matter what app you use.  You can even use no app.  The GPS is in the aircraft.  App doesn't matter.  ATTI won't matter.  Disconnecting the GPS module won't work either.  Your only hope is to somehow block the satellite from reaching the GPS antenna.  I suppose if you damaged the fragile porcelain antenna somehow while keeping the module operational, that might work, but it seems a little extreme.  

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-3-4 15:00
It doesn't matter what app you use.  You can even use no app.  The GPS is in the aircraft.  App doesn't matter.  ATTI won't matter.  Disconnecting the GPS module won't work either.  Your only hope is to somehow block the satellite from reaching the GPS antenna.  I suppose if you damaged the fragile porcelain antenna somehow while keeping the module operational, that might work, but it seems a little extreme.

Correct, the whole GEO detection is built into the aircraft firmware.

Geebax Posted at 2017-3-4 14:43
No, that is not true, you cannot switch off the GPS, it will always know where it is if it is able to receive satellites. And it can refuse to startt up if it knows it is inside a NFZ.
The best solution to this probloem is to use a non-DJI aircraft that does not implement a GEO system.

I think your missing the point Geebax, if you block the gps siginal it won't have any gps satellites and it won't know where it is. gps tracking is easy to block if you cover the antenna with alfoil. I work in the trucking industry and the drivers with gps tracking will put a aluminium pie tray over the antenna when they don't want the boss to know where they are. also they could start it up in a fly zone then block the antenna before the go in a no fly zone if it tries to use it's last known location.

mic75 Posted at 2017-3-4 15:10
I think your missing the point Geebax, if you block the gps siginal it won't have any gps satellites and it won't know where it is. gps tracking is easy to block if you cover the antenna with alfoil. I work in the trucking industry and the drivers with gps tracking will put a aluminium pie tray over the antenna when they don't want the boss to know where they are. also they could start it up in a fly zone then block the antenna before the go in a no fly zone if it tries to use it's last known location.

Perhaps give it a try.

piowoc73 Posted at 2017-3-4 11:46
No, FAA has no jurisdiction indoors, but you will need to ask DJI for temporary lifting the NFZ for you.

How do I ask them to lift the NFZ?

this is from "DJI NATALIA" two weeks ago
Here is the information for NFZ, please refer to it: http://www.dji.com/flysafe/no-fly
For other questions, please send an e-mail to flysafe@dji.com, our support will help you handle it.

this is also from dji website.
http://www.dji.com/flysafe/geo-system/unlock

If you block the GPS reception by taping some aluminium foil across the top of the Phantom, your Phantom will have no idea where in the world it is and will happily fly in atti mode.
You will have an altitude limit (can't remember how high - maybe 30 m?) but that probably won't be a problem indoors.

Grizz 1 Posted at 2017-3-4 17:33
this is also from dji website.
http://www.dji.com/flysafe/geo-system/unlock

Thanks. Unfortunately, this building is so close to the runway, it doesn't offer unlocking. I guess I'm out of luck.

Grizz 1 Posted at 2017-3-4 17:26
this is from "DJI NATALIA" two weeks ago
Here is the information for NFZ, please refer to it: http://www.dji.com/flysafe/no-fly
For other questions, please send an e-mail to , our support will help you handle it.

I was told by the DJI rep to use the following NFZ map for P4P: http://www.dji.com/flysafe/geo-system/map. It's supposed to work with all their new models.

avalancheaerial Posted at 2017-3-4 18:24
Thanks. Unfortunately, this building is so close to the runway, it doesn't offer unlocking. I guess I'm out of luck.

Look at post #19.

avalancheaerial Posted at 2017-3-4 18:24
Thanks. Unfortunately, this building is so close to the runway, it doesn't offer unlocking. I guess I'm out of luck.

And if you block GPS reception, your Phantom won't know it's in/near a no fly zone so there would be no unlocking to do.

Geebax Posted at 2017-3-4 14:43
No, that is not true, you cannot switch off the GPS, it will always know where it is if it is able to receive satellites. And it can refuse to startt up if it knows it is inside a NFZ.
The best solution to this probloem is to use a non-DJI aircraft that does not implement a GEO system.

No, what you say is not right. If you block the reception of the GPS antenna, as Labroides says, the Phantom does not know where it is. I've seen it done before, and it worked.

Bullflyer Posted at 2017-3-5 00:09
No, what you say is not right. If you block the reception of the GPS antenna, as Labroides says, the Phantom does not know where it is. I've seen it done before, and it worked.

I said you cannot switch off the GPS, blocking it with foil over the top is a whole other technique.

Sounds like an OSMO would be an acceptable alternative in a situation such as this.


RedHotPoker

Geebax Posted at 2017-3-5 00:16
I said you cannot switch off the GPS, blocking it with foil over the top is a whole other technique.

I never said to switch off the GPS

There is a self-adhesive material, composed of a thin sheet of lead, used to cover water leaks in roofs and water gutters.
This material is the one used in tests that were done to block the GPS signal in a Phantom, and it worked.
What I do not remember is if they used a sheet only, or they used more than one sheet.
The name translated is "water stop", manufactured by Ceys
You could try to get something similar.

piowoc73 Posted at 2017-3-4 20:26
I was told by the DJI rep to use the following NFZ map for P4P: http://www.dji.com/flysafe/geo-system/map. It's supposed to work with all their new models.

It will work for the P4P, but it's unable to unlock due to its close proximity to the airport. It's probably 300 yards from the runway.

avalancheaerial Posted at 2017-3-5 07:05
It will work for the P4P, but it's unable to unlock due to its close proximity to the airport. It's probably 300 yards from the runway.

Have you read all the posts above? They gave you very precise instructions on how to circumvent this issue,

piowoc73 Posted at 2017-3-5 07:32
Have you read all the posts above? They gave you very precise instructions on how to circumvent this issue,

I'm not really keen on taping foil to the top of the drone with millions of dollars of inventory sitting below it in the expo center.

avalancheaerial Posted at 2017-3-5 07:37
I'm not really keen on taping foil to the top of the drone with millions of dollars of inventory sitting below it in the expo center.

As a part 107 license holder, it also seems a little unprofessional to do so. I'm not sure Verifly would grant a claim after modding the stock Phantom 4 pro.

I do appreciate all of the responses though!

avalancheaerial Posted at 2017-3-5 07:39
As a part 107 license holder, it also seems a little unprofessional to do so. I'm not sure Verifly would grant a claim after modding the stock Phantom 4 pro.

I do appreciate all of the responses though!

Are you sure Verifly covers any indoor flying?

avalancheaerial Posted at 2017-3-5 07:37
I'm not really keen on taping foil to the top of the drone with millions of dollars of inventory sitting below it in the expo center.

You can still try the "legal" way and contact DJI to temporarily unlock the NFZ for you, assuming you can provide them with the documentation for your assignment, the property release form signed by the owner, etc.

avalancheaerial Posted at 2017-3-5 07:39
As a part 107 license holder, it also seems a little unprofessional to do so. I'm not sure Verifly would grant a claim after modding the stock Phantom 4 pro.

I do appreciate all of the responses though!

You should consider that flying indoors is completely legal as far as the FAA is concerned.  You could fly in the baggage claim area of LAX if you wanted to.  Sure, airport security might want to have a quick word with you, but FAA won't care.  So, given that your flight is indoors, I don't see anything inappropriate or unprofessional with blocking the GPS antenna.  

avalancheaerial Posted at 2017-3-5 07:39
As a part 107 license holder, it also seems a little unprofessional to do so. I'm not sure Verifly would grant a claim after modding the stock Phantom 4 pro.

I do appreciate all of the responses though!

Here you go: https://support.verifly.com/kb/article/52-may-i-fly-indoors
As I suspected Verifly does NOT cover any indoor flying. It's excluded from their policy.

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-3-5 07:54
You should consider that flying indoors is completely legal as far as the FAA is concerned.  You could fly in the baggage claim area of LAX if you wanted to.  Sure, airport security might want to have a quick word with you, but FAA won't care.  So, given that your flight is indoors, I don't see anything inappropriate or unprofessional with blocking the GPS antenna.

Mark is absolutely right. Like I said before FAA doesn't have any jurisdiction indoors, so you don't even need your part 107 cert for this assignment, because it doesn't apply.

If you have the opportunity, try within that site, and see if you receive GPS data.
Maybe you do not have to do anything if you do not get data.
On the other hand, it is advisable to know how to handle a drone without any type of aid

avalancheaerial Posted at 2017-3-5 07:39
As a part 107 license holder, it also seems a little unprofessional to do so. I'm not sure Verifly would grant a claim after modding the stock Phantom 4 pro.

I do appreciate all of the responses though!

Are you sure it is legal?  Flying indoors may be unregulated for a model aeroplane flown for hobby purposes, but a commercial aircraft flown for profit is a different matter.  I suspect that if you checked with the FAA they would say that they do regulate indoor flying and that you have to obey the normal rules...

Nigel_ Posted at 2017-3-5 12:45
Are you sure it is legal?  Flying indoors may be unregulated for a model aeroplane flown for hobby purposes, but a commercial aircraft flown for profit is a different matter.  I suspect that if you checked with the FAA they would say that they do regulate indoor flying and that you have to obey the normal rules...

Here is a quote from FAA website:
"If I'm just flying my UAS inside a building, or in my own yard, do I have to register it?
If you're flying indoors, you do not need to register your unmanned aircraft as the FAA does not regulate indoor UAS use. However, when flying in your own yard or over your own property, you will need to register your UAS if the UAS weighs more than 0.55 pounds."

Here is the link: https://www.faa.gov/uas/faqs/