Hi, I want to share my experience with a NFZ zone in Germany.

I started my Mavic and flown near a sea - after 40 seconds my Mavic was telling me that this a NFZ zone and started to land.
The problem was that my device was already above the sea. So I had absulutly no change to select a save place to land my Mavic ...


Support - I absoluty agree that there are Zones that you cant fly but if the Mavic goes into the air and found out a bit later "Its an NFZ Zone!" it should come back to me and not starting to land immediately! I had really luck that there was a tree so I crashed it not in the water.


Next time I will leave my Mavic on the ground until it has found some GPS Satelites and start after to fly...

Here are my logs:  http://healthydrones.com/main?share=bSLTJP



19sec Warning Zone D
42sec NFZ Zone - Landing started

While I agree that it shouldn't land in the water:

You were flying less than 1.5 km from Germany's busiest airport. All available maps show that what you did was illegal and dangerous.  

Stunts like this will just lead to drone use getting even more restricted.

And yes, you should always wait for a GPS fix. Otherwise the drone will also not know where to return to.

I'm really not one for going on about what people should and shouldn't do but probably best to do a Google Map search or something of where you're flying generally. Right next to Frankfurt Airport probably isn't best and multiple SID's out of Frankfurt go right over that area and depending on where you went, if not in GPS mode, they can be fairly low over there. Google the following SID's and you'll probably find a flight sim site somewhere with Jepp plates...

BIBTI 2R
DKB4F & DKB5G
RATIM3S
SOBRA3E
ANEK1E

There's others. Sorry to go on, not from a drone owner who gets annoyed when people do this but from a pilot who doesn't want to hit one of these
EDIT: Second thought... here's a list of the airport plates: http://www.rocketroute.com/airpo ... kfurtmain-eddf.html

it more more like "nice a lake" lets make a short video. I abolutly agree that the drone goes in landing mode if its a NFZ zone. My point is just why not fly back instead of going down. I just learned for the next time - what is good.

As you said wait for a GPS fix and after that ... start to fly

If the drone is in a No Fly Zone and is programmed to fly home, then that is bad.
The zone is not a zone saying "go home you shouldn't be here", its a zone saying "you cannot fly here, so land".

SteveDickin Posted at 2017-3-19 07:18
If the drone is in a No Fly Zone and is programmed to fly home, then that is bad.
The zone is not a zone saying "go home you shouldn't be here", its a zone saying "you cannot fly here, so land".

Sure... But if a private pilot accidentally finds himself in a NFZ and gets a call on the radio informing him of his violation of the air space, they don't expect him to simply land immediately directly below his current position :-)

I agree with the OP that there surely is a better way to handle the situation that to simply force the Mavic into the ground/water. What if there happened to be people below, and you have absolutely no way to stop the drone from descending onto somebody?

I had the same thing on my way up on a mountain and did not give me the error for 60 seconds maby (ish) and it halted in the air.
But it did not try to land or anything.. just stayed there and i could easily fly it home.
Found out later on that the military was training in the area and that is why NFZ.

This is, IMHO, a serious flaw in the way DJI handles entry into an NFZ.  An irreversible forced auto-land ingredients risks needless loss of the drone as well as potential injury.

If you had GPS lock & were already in an NFZ the drone should not have allowed you to start the motors & lift off.  If you flew into an NFZ, the drone should simply stop at the perimeter & allow you to withdraw.  This is how things worked with the P2/Vision+.  With that system there was also an automatic altitude restriction cone that became increasingly lower as you approached the perimeter.

The new system simply triggers an irreversible auto-land sequence. You can still control the aircraft horizontally as it lands but you can't stop the landing.

A fellow pilot had this happen when he entered an UNMARKED NFZ surrounding a stadium.  The stadium is surrounded on either side by highways & it was by sheer luck the aircraft came down safely in a small open lot.

The bird should simply stop further progress into the NFZ & allow the pilot to withdraw.  Why force it to land?  What happens if you are flying & the area suddenly becomes a temporary NFZ?  Is the bird just going to land on the spot?  I notified DJI about this issue many months ago but from your incident it appears the issue has not been addressed.

Drones are not recognised by radar, so nobody knows there there, who makes the call, it seems dji makes the call and I'm sure ICAO were involved along the way. I suppose if it's deemed that the pilot is responsible for where he flys, is also responsible for knowing how his AC works and where it works including what will happen if he flys in NFZ .
Jason mentioned in earlier post about small manned aircraft flying into NFZ well these will show up on radar and he will receive instructions from ATC , he will have to file a report as to what he was doing there, and also face the probability of a fine.

To this day, I don't understand DJI's decision to make it work this way.  Back before DJI limiting flights into NFZs and such, they were discussing it in the Phantom list and said it would work just like your limits on distance and altitude.  That is, you fly into an invisible wall, where it will just quit proceeding into the zone.  You hit the wall, turn around, and go another direction.  No landing required, etc.  When it came out in the firmware, it landed when it hit the NFZ and they made no comment to us at all about it.  It is not a good policy.  Just limit intrusion, don't land it, where any Joe Blow can come along and steal it while you're looking for it, or worse, land on top of someone slicing them up.  This is really stupid.

Yes, NEVER take off before getting GPS lock and safe IMU, etc.  Always take off and hover a minute or so to check stability before mashing levers.

So if I fly from a non NFZ zone into a NFZ zone the drone goes into landing mode or stop for the invisible wall?

@Trica, can you confirm something? Many of the messages on your Healthy Drones data are in German, but from what I can gather it looks like your Mavic was in GPS Mode when you started the motors at 18s. It seems like it gave you the NFZ warning immediate at that point. Perhaps you missed it, I don't know... But you then took off at 21s, and flew until 41s before the Mavic went into Autolanding. It seems odd that the Mavic apparently let you take off, fly for about 20s, and then suddenly forced you into Autolanding.

Is it possible that it wasn’t the NFZ that iniatied the Autolanding, but perhaps a VPS issue due to flying over water? If you can post a screen recording of your flight playback from the GO App, we might find more information in there.

http://forum.dji.com/thread-82897-1-3.html

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-3-19 23:08
@Trica, can you confirm something? Many of the messages on your Healthy Drones data are in German, but from what I can gather it looks like your Mavic was in GPS Mode when you started the motors at 18s. It seems like it gave you the NFZ warning immediate at that point. Perhaps you missed it, I don't know... But you then took off at 21s, and flew until 41s before the Mavic went into Autolanding. It seems odd that the Mavic apparently let you take off, fly for about 20s, and then suddenly forced you into Autolanding.

Is it possible that it wasn’t the NFZ that iniatied the Autolanding, but perhaps a VPS issue due to flying over water? If you can post a screen recording of your flight playback from the GO App, we might find more information in there.

My Mavic had a GPS signal but there was nothing on the display that told me "Hold on NFZ zone!!!" After some seconds (35-41sec) it told me NFZ zone starting landing... I just had time to naviagte it into a tree...

Here is the video



19sec Warning Zone D
42sec NFZ Zone - Landing started
42sec till the end I navigated into a tree near the lake...  

I agree with the OP that the drone should fly back to the pilot, rather than simply land. Aside from all the scenarios others have mentioned here, imagine the situation where the area under the drone is occupied by a large crowd of people. Auto landing over people is a major disaster waiting to happen.
I think the best way to handle this is to warn the pilot, restrict the maximum altitude to a reasonable height, so that the drone can fly over fences or walls, restrict further access into the NFZ, and allow the pilot to manually or automatically fly the drone back.

trica de Posted at 2017-3-19 23:16
My Mavic had a GPS signal but there was nothing on the display that told me "Hold on NFZ zone!!!" After some seconds (35-41sec) it told me NFZ zone starting landing... I just had time to naviagte it into a tree...

Here is the video

After watching this video, I think DJI should be nice and get your Mavic repaired for free. The reason simply is that the Mavic let you fly for more than 20 seconds after the Drone got GPS and should have known that is was in an NFZ (it knew it was in a class D airspace). If the Mavic had acted properly, it had gone into auto-land right after the GPS signal was available. In this situation the Mavic was 0.8m away from where it took off and it would have been safe to land.

If I was working for DJI, my reply to this would be: Sorry, that you had an issue with the Mavic Pro.  Please send it in for a free repair. We forwarded this case to our engineers. They will make sure that NFZ is checked immediately when the GPS signal is acquired. We will also introduce a setting, so that you have to confirm your take-off when no GPS signal is available and acknowledge the possible risks.

Well, obviously you know it was not the best place to take off... but I must agree that the autoland when reaching an NFZ is ridiculous... it should not let you go further and ask you to get back.

Crash cost me 20€ for new propeller so far (+ some scratch) and a huge heart attack.


The place where I started was good in my eyes but I agree I did not check if its a NFZ zone! Just the fact that it goes down and you have no choice or control is not good.

trica de Posted at 2017-3-20 01:15
Crash cost me 20€ for new propeller so far (+ some scratch) and a huge heart attack.

All that area is horrible... I work nearby and use to live close there... you've got frankfurt, and you've got egelsbach airport too... and the neighbors in the small towns are not really in favour of drones... it seems everybody thinks you want to spy their backyard... like if I was interested in a bunch of old grumpy grampas and their flowers...

Is it not equally as dangerous to have it RTH??

A pilot sets his RTH at say 100 feet so as to be sure to not run into any trees etc, and you enter a NFZ. Instead of just landing, as its unlikely there will be "crowds of people" it instead initiates a RTH and tries to fly back to you putting itself, out of your control, in line with a plane or helicopter.

You now have a device, flying in a NFZ which is not being controlled by anyone..... I cant see DJI allowing this.

Auto landing, from a safety point of view is the more obvious imo. They are taking action to take device that should not be flying in a NFZ out of the air as quickly as possible.

Just my 2 cents.

GSI_IRE Posted at 2017-3-20 02:13
Is it not equally as dangerous to have it RTH??

A pilot sets his RTH at say 100 feet so as to be sure to not run into any trees etc, and you enter a NFZ. Instead of just landing, as its unlikely there will be "crowds of people" it instead initiates a RTH and tries to fly back to you putting itself, out of your control, in line with a plane or helicopter.

A forced RTH probably isn't the best option, either, and I don't think anybody's suggesting that it is.

Personally, I think the best option would be to restrict the direction of travel so that you can only fly the drone back to yourself or the takeoff point.

hmmm I quite agree with OP here, even tho I check where I am flying, I would expect the drone to return to home location as opposed to just simply land there...

The problem is if you had RTH set at what might be a dangerous height you would be flying around being a danger to manned aircraft.

I don't know how dji could allow the pilot to be responsible for getting his aircraft back to a safe location, if he was that irresponsible or careless in the first place. The first and most important thing is to get the drone out of harms way of manned aircraft, and since there is no communication possible with the pilot, then for now the safest option to avoid collision is land the drone.

If manned aircraft are flying in NFZ without permission then they can be told what to do because there is communication between the pilot and ATC, and it's much easier to put him on a safe course out of harms way.

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-3-20 02:32
A forced RTH probably isn't the best option, either, and I don't think anybody's suggesting that it is.

Personally, I think the best option would be to restrict the direction of travel so that you can only fly the drone back to yourself or the takeoff point.

I think there is a good solution to handle such situations.

1) Without GPS the controller should not start a take-off before the user has acknowledged a warning that says "If GPS signal becomes available in an NFZ, the drone will auto-land immediately.".

2) When GPS signal becomes available, the NFZ check should happen immediately and not after 20 seconds.

3) When the aircraft recognizes that it is in a NFZ, it should auto-land as it was said in the warning the user got.

I have to agree with the terrible handling of NFZs by DJI.  There is NO REASON the GPS boundaries can't be used as an "electronic fence" to just stop the drone from flying further.  Once you hit the fence boundary, it behaves the same as when it sees an obstacle in front of it... it just stops and waits for you to change direction to one that is safe to fly.  

If you take off in a NFZ, it's a bit of a crap-shoot.  I'd like it to find the closest edge of the NFZ and make a bee-line for it.  However, I know this could actually put it (or others) in harm's way in the right circumstances.  It seems the "immediate landing" is probably best for safety... even if it isn't optimum for the drone and the operator.  Yes, always wait for GPS.

I recently flew in an area that I didn't realize had a NFZ.  It wasn't an airport, but more a "landmark" that there had been a NFZ established around.  I was unaware, but I was warned by the controller as I approached it.  Of course I turned and flew away immediately, so as to avoid a situation where my drone was landing in a area that would have been detrimental to us both.  I wish I didn't have that fear.  

I should be able to fly right up to the edge of the NFZ and have the drone just stop.  And yes, as others have mentioned, the NFZ could also be properly tapered to take into account approach areas and other height restrictions.  Done properly, it could allow you to actually take off a just few blocks from the side of an airport runway and be limited to 50 feet or 100 feet without any danger to anyone.  Attempt to take off that close to the approach and it would be limited to 15 feet or denied altogether.  Again, IF IT WAS DONE PROPERLY!

I think we are all getting tired of the "All-or-nothing" approach to NFZ and drones in general.  I SHOULD be able to take off and fly in my house or backyard if I live in DC.  I SHOULD be able to take off and fly at limited altitudes in the park next to the airport.  I SHOULD be able to fly in an area that has cool things to see and not be punished because I was "unaware" of a NFZ by losing my drone (or worse!) due to a forced landing.  

DJI... take note!

hopefully a MOD is reading this and can give us a Statement....

Always fly with GPS detected when out door make sure it capture the home point before you fly off  as when  RTH is initiated it will know where to return and land. I have encounter 'restricted area' but not a NFZ yet. So far no force landing.

Gary Mac Posted at 2017-3-20 05:49
I have to agree with the terrible handling of NFZs by DJI.  There is NO REASON the GPS boundaries can't be used as an "electronic fence" to just stop the drone from flying further.  Once you hit the fence boundary, it behaves the same as when it sees an obstacle in front of it... it just stops and waits for you to change direction to one that is safe to fly.  

If you take off in a NFZ, it's a bit of a crap-shoot.  I'd like it to find the closest edge of the NFZ and make a bee-line for it.  However, I know this could actually put it (or others) in harm's way in the right circumstances.  It seems the "immediate landing" is probably best for safety... even if it isn't optimum for the drone and the operator.  Yes, always wait for GPS.

But what if your GPS doesn't kick in until you'r inside the 'GPS Fence"?  

Griffith Posted at 2017-3-20 06:24
But what if your GPS doesn't kick in until you'r inside the 'GPS Fence"?

Then again, as much as it sucks, the drone lands.  That is why it is so crucial to WAIT for GPS lock so that your drone does not behave in a way that is unexpected.  
As for "variances" in GPS and the edge of the "fence" possibly moving a little, just have the software turn around and fly back out if that boundary is violated.  There is no reason to have a HARD cut-off with a 1000 foot NFZ.  A couple feet inside due to GPS variance or the drone taking a few feet to slow and stop should not result in a loss of control and forced landing.  The software should just turn the drone around and fly back out... or even just reverse until it finds the edge.

No Fly Zones are a special case of  the usual controlled airspace boundaries where notification or ATC permission is required (n the US).  In many, but not all, cases the NFZ may be within an airport's controlled airspace.  IMO, it's the pilots responsibility to know where he is before flying - functioning GPS or not. No Fly means just that, and it;s perfectly reasonable for any drone manufacturer to force an immediate landing. Not doing so could jeopardize the company's relationship with aviation authorities and may effect flying privileges for everyone.

trica de Posted at 2017-3-19 23:16
My Mavic had a GPS signal but there was nothing on the display that told me "Hold on NFZ zone!!!" After some seconds (35-41sec) it told me NFZ zone starting landing... I just had time to naviagte it into a tree...

Here is the video

At 21s, did the app tell you that you're in Class D airspace, and that you should fly with caution (not saying don't fly). And then at 41s, after flying for 20s and a few meters away, it suddenly told you it's a NFZ?

Have you checked some maps to see if where you were flying was literally on the border of a NFZ?

"All available maps show that what you did was illegal and dangerous."

Bah, gimme a break! People get too fricken serious about this crap. EVEN the gov't.
Just because it's an NFZ does not make it automatically dangerous! Even If he flew at a height of 15 meters it still wouldn't have been dangerous, Of course an idiot who flys at the same altitude as normal air traffic is being dangerous but what this guy was doing was not dangerous.

Jason Lane Posted at 2017-3-20 07:26
At 21s, did the app tell you that you're in Class D airspace, and that you should fly with caution (not saying don't fly). And then at 41s, after flying for 20s and a few meters away, it suddenly told you it's a NFZ?

Have you checked some maps to see if where you were flying was literally on the border of a NFZ?

no I did not checked the map next time I will do. anyway what you saying is correct after 41 bye bye

I wish that a MOD can forward it to the DEV team... this solution what we have is not good and its dangerous if the drone is in the air and start a instead landing for example in a crowd of people and YOU as the Pilot can not stop it

can a MOD give us an answer please or guide us?

In regards the pilots problem here, its unfortunate the turn of events that occurred, cut him a bit of slack.

But sorry, unfortunately, the hint is in the name. No Fly Zone. The device must land.

In event of this people a plane or helicopter, someone would be in contact, give directions, do X or Y, your in the path of Z, we will guide you out so no one is in danger. Or advise other craft in the area that they need to move away from said plane etc as they have no control of where its flying.

As a drone pilot you don't have that communication, even worse, they probably don't even know your there... which is probably even more dangerous. The only safe option, when INSIDE a NFZ is to land, immediately and without delay.

As for what should happen on approach etc, I suppose I would be of the mind, you should know where your flying, and shouldn't approach a NFZ.

This is in no way a dig at this pilot, we all have to learn, and I have know I have learned from just reading this thread... ITS THE PILOTS RESPONSIBILITY TO BE KNOW WHERE YOU ARE AND DO EVERYTHING TO STAY IN CONTROL OF YOUR DRONE.

@ trica de - I don't expect you will get any response from a MOD, other than maybe, the device was acting as designed when it found its self inside an NFZ

GSI_IRE Posted at 2017-3-21 08:25
In regards the pilots problem here, its unfortunate the turn of events that occurred, cut him a bit of slack.

But sorry, unfortunately, the hint is in the name. No Fly Zone. The device must land.

You don't get the point. The aircraft knew exactly where it was and allowed him to fly for more than 20 seconds in an NFZ. It even told him "Class D airspace, fly carefully". That is the real issue.

The aircraft should have performed a landing immediately after it got GPS signal. If it had done so, probably nothing would have happened, because at that time the aircraft was 0.8m away from where it took off.

And where do the 20 seconds delay come from? Could it be 30 seconds? In sports mode the aircraft can go 400m in 20 seconds. Does it mean, you can fly 400m into an NFZ with a Mavic? Give it 20 more seconds after startup to get GPS signal and you get 800m. That sounds like an issue to me!

Dronoob Posted at 2017-3-21 10:08
You don't get the point. The aircraft knew exactly where it was and allowed him to fly for more than 20 seconds in an NFZ. It even told him "Class D airspace, fly carefully". That is the real issue.

The aircraft should have performed a landing immediately after it got GPS signal. If it had done so, probably nothing would have happened, because at that time the aircraft was 0.8m away from where it took off.

The aircraft knew exactly where it was - exactly

Imagine you can start the drone and it land in a crowed of people?

As I said next time I will check NFZ zones before

trica de Posted at 2017-3-19 22:10
So if I fly from a non NFZ zone into a NFZ zone the drone goes into landing mode or stop for the invisible wall?

it happened to me in Seoul few days ago..
i went to see an amazing park and obviously i wanted to make a short video with my drone.. everything ready and when i'm about to start the motors(after gps lock..)
i GET a " no possible to start engine.. NFZ "
looking at the map i was in the middle of a NFZ... was trying to undertstand what that was and with a short search i was not far from PRESIDENT OF SOUTH KOREA residence.,..

that said without GPS lock i could have take off.. but what could happen when it would realize i'm in a NFZ?? so basically just wait for GPS LOCK and then go ! If you are close to NFZ drone won't enter.. and won't land automatically! i do agree that if FOR ANY reason u enter a NFZ then it should fly back folliwing the same route without auto landing !

ONE more thing..  i do agree that NFZ should be intelligent .. like? Like if i'm close by to an airport let me be free at 300 METERS from it to fly maximum 15-20  meters altitude ..and just DENY 100% the airport perimenter..

NO aircraft will ever be that LOW... so won't be any danger ! one single note though is that .. drone might get crazy fort any NOT pilot mistake.. but that is another story!

Bucefalo Posted at 2017-3-22 00:16
it happened to me in Seoul few days ago..
i went to see an amazing park and obviously i wanted to make a short video with my drone.. everything ready and when i'm about to start the motors(after gps lock..)
i GET a " no possible to start engine.. NFZ "

I wish I had the situation that my drone did not started !

trica de Posted at 2017-3-21 22:20
The aircraft knew exactly where it was - exactly

Imagine you can start the drone and it land in a crowed of people?

Imagine you can start the drone and it land in a crowed of people?

So you feel that dealing with the scenario where you don't check for NFZs, take off without GPS, and then fly over a crowd of people should be a high priority for DJI? Personally I don't think that's as important as better handling of the case where someone attaches razor blades to the props, strips naked, and then flies the Mavic directly into their own groin; I hate it when that happens.