Hi,

I would like to report and discuss an unexpected behavior that could lead to a crash.
I have reproduced the problem 3 times yesterday with 2 different batteries.

I am a very new DJI user and I apologize if this is normal behavior due to an error from me. Please tell me if so.

Conditions:
- Night flight
- City environnement (electro-magnetic perturbations but no transmission failure more than one second and not at the moment auto-landing activated)
- Normal mode / video shooting
- Take off and fly between alt. +70 and +120m, within a 50m radius
- Battery levels way over "low battery" and "critical"
- Firmware updated yesterday

Trigger:
At some point I decided to descend quickly to have my drone closer to the ground:
- I pushed the throttle down at -100% (ONLY control reached)
- My drone accelerated and started to go down (fast)
=> Almost immediately, the controler displayed "auto-landing" and started procedure without any confirmation request or "slide" as i have usually when i request it by clicking the control on my smartphone even though altitude was over +70 M
- The drone reduced descent speed at around -1m/s
- Impossible to "cancel" the auto-landing / get back throttle control (I can see on my log i'm pushing the throttle up at +100% but the drone continues to descend at constant speed)
- all other controls stayed active (camera / right joystick) which allowed me (fortunately !) to position the drone over a safe landing zone
- drone went down from 70M to ground without any pause (and landing was kind of rough) without any possibility from me to stop it

Problems:
- if auto-landing triggers when my drone is away over a non-secured landing pad it will crash (for example if I have to push down the throttle to avoid something)
- the controller does not give me control back the hand when i request it (big problem in case of emergency !)
- I can't do a "fast" descent (only -1m/s)

Solutions:
- I can override by SWITCHING TO SPORT MODE: it cancels the procedure and gives me the hand back
However:
- it's not intuitive (especially for a new user)
- it does not refrain the auto-landing to trigger in the first time

Questions:
- Anyone having this problem ?
- How to prevent the auto-landing to trigger at any altitude when i'm pushing down the throttle ?

Hello,

This issue was already reported to DJI and mentioned in a few threads here. You are right that the only way to deactivate it is by switching to sport mode. This is a new "feature" in the new firmware.

One way reported to work for disabling this is to deactivate safe landing in the options - and then supposedly auto landing will not trigger. Haven't had a chance to test it yet so for now it's only a theory as far as I'm concerned. Hope this answers your question for the moment.

Let's see if DJI does something about it in future firmware updates.

Cheers!

I am trying to figure out a reason for it, but did you checked if in the settings you have selected the option that when the AC has lost connection to the RC will begin landing/hover/RTH, maybe that could be part of the reason for this behavior. That's the first thing that popped into my mind based on the conditions. But it could be something else. Good luck!

rnrnrn Posted at 2017-3-29 00:27
Hello,

This issue was already reported to DJI and mentioned in a few threads here. You are right that the only way to deactivate it is by switching to sport mode. This is a new "feature" in the new firmware.

Hi Rnrnrn,

I saw the issue on the other topic about the "not giving back the hand" and "disabling it by switching to sport mode" however I didn't see anything about the auto-landing triggering for no reason at high altitude: why would they even think it's an useful function ?

I hope firmware updates are frequent and that they will correct it.

Thanks

Gotchock Posted at 2017-3-29 00:41
Hi Rnrnrn,

I saw the issue on the other topic about the "not giving back the hand" and "disabling it by switching to sport mode" however I didn't see anything about the auto-landing triggering for no reason at high altitude: why would they even think it's an useful function ?

Hi Gotchock,

I don't think it's a feature - it's just an overlooked consequence. You pull the stick to 100% down and the auto-landing initiates. That's it. It doesn't care what the height is. Hence switching off landing protection would be a good idea in this case. Anyhow - I always take off and land manually - always have with previous drones as well - so the landing protection "feature" was annoying to me because it stopped the landing for a moment before I could continue. Maybe that's why I've never experienced this forced landing at height altitudes either.

If you get a chance to fly in the near future do check if it helps (deactivating landing protection) - maybe it'll work ;-)

Cheers!

Isn't this because you had throttle at -100% for a longer time (holding throttle down all the way)? Doing this in the old Phantom 2 days, would disable the engines once you landed. I wonder, if holding the throttle like that for a longer time triggers auto land procedure???

Disabling auto land procedure in options could explain why it does not get triggered again.

I don't even have my Mavic yet, but this is my bet

Gotchock Posted at 2017-3-29 00:41
Hi Rnrnrn,

I saw the issue on the other topic about the "not giving back the hand" and "disabling it by switching to sport mode" however I didn't see anything about the auto-landing triggering for no reason at high altitude: why would they even think it's an useful function ?

There are two major problems with the current firmware. The first is that if the VPS system gives a momentary false height reading of less than 1m while the left stick is fully down it will trigger auto landing. The second is that it is not possible to cancel auto landing - except (fortunately) by toggling the P/S switch.

The VPS problem often happens over water, where surface ripples can confuse the stereo camera distance perception, and in this case in low light. There was a test done in another thread by hanging a loop of ribbon under the drone to make the drone think it was low and trigger landing. Once landing mode is triggered the system ignores the fact that the VPS no longer shows that it is close to the ground.

Not being able to cancel landing mode is a serious problem, and potentially quite dangerous. Surely, if the drone has been put into landing mode by holding the left stick fully down, releasing the left stick should cancel it immediately. The ideal situation would be to hold the stick down until the drone is on the ground, and if you release the stick it should return to a low hover.

I think is the combinatin of these two faults that has lead to a lot of the problems we see on the forums.

Wow.. Thanks for the "switching to Sports mode" to cancel auto landing tip.  Useful to know/try if anything like this happens.
SP.

Going 100% of the time in any direction with a drone isn't a great idea.  That's likely why they have it trigger at 100% throttle.  It's not something people should be doing often.

Glad to hear you were able to find a safe place to put it down under that kind of pressure. Well done. Let me assure you, there was no error on your part. Holding down the throttle 100% for any length of time is not supposed to start an auto-landing, UNLESS the Mavic is within 0.5m of the ground. When flying at altitude, you should be able to safely apply 100% stick input in any direction without worry. The aircraft's flight controller is pre-programmed to make sure the aircraft stays within safe operating limits. What you experienced was not normal behavior, although it's not completely unique, either. Basically, you experienced a combination of two known issues:

1. The Mavic going into auto-landing from altitude is almost always caused by a problem with the VPS system. If the system believes the aircraft is less than 0.5m from the ground, it will initiate auto-landing if you hold the throttle down for a few seconds. The VPS issue was supposed to be solved with the newer firmwares, but it seems like your experience shows otherwise. See this (long) thread for more details: http://forum.dji.com/thread-77495-1-1.html

2. Unable to abort the auto-landing using throttle or Pause button. This was a "feature" introduced only with the newest v01.03.0500 firmware. See more details here: http://forum.dji.com/thread-89386-1-1.html

I don't wish to be too negative here but honestly, as a beginner, you probably should not be out flying at night in the city and especially after recently updating the firmware.
Normally after a firmware update, some settings can be changed so did you go through all the settings and check them? We also don't know what settings you were using such as the RTH and VPS settings and maximum height. I also can't imagine why you needed to use 100% throttle down as the drone will descend relatively quickly at much less than that.
I tend to think the environment, being at nighttime and the 100% throttle down has triggered the forced landing.

I'm having the same issue with my mavic which I just got 2 weeks ago. The auto land happened to me and it caused a crash, luckily it just broke props and not the camera. I did the firmware updates and recalibrated the vps. I'm new to flying any tips on what I can do about this?

I was flying during the day and at about 100ft I started to descend and noticed that the vps (little person icon) went from n/a to about 1ft and went red. It then went into auto land sequence.

Professor Posted at 2017-3-29 16:53
I'm having the same issue with my mavic which I just got 2 weeks ago. The auto land happened to me and it caused a crash, luckily it just broke props and not the camera. I did the firmware updates and recalibrated the vps. I'm new to flying any tips on what I can do about this?

There is 3 options to avoid that problem (auto land) in future
1. never use down throttle 100% (all down)
OR
2. turn off the protective landing
OR
3. use sport mode

hungdang Posted at 2017-3-29 17:56
There is 3 options to avoid that problem (auto land) in future
1. never use down throttle 100% (all down)
OR

#4 GET DJI TO FIX THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!

Hi,

I follow up to my message yesterday
- action in case of a signal lost is (as yesterday) a return to home and not an immediate landing
- my log shows clearly altitude was correct at the moment auto landing triggered
- auto-landing triggered EXACTLY at the moment i pushed the throttle down to 100%
The question is WHY it triggered at 60M height and WHY i could not cancel it

I did new flights today:
- at noon in high luminosity
- impossible to reproduce the problem / only normal behavior

This pushes me to believe the problem is either:
- software: the VPS can't detect the ground in the dark (it was VERY dark under the drone and surface was concrete) - But WHY the throttle down trigger auto-landing ?
- hardware: the VPS sensors are failing for an unknown reason

Conclusion:
- i am not confident in flying the done in some conditions that should be OK
- i'd really like DJI to feedback on this kind of problem

Yesterday I had to perfect flights off a boat offshore in the third flight it started auto landing on me and I pressed cancel several times and we watched it land in the water and I lost it.  Yesterday I had to perfect flights off a boat offshore in the third flight it started auto landing on me and I press cancel several times and we watched it land in the water and I lost it.I have over 100 flights with my Mavic and it's been perfect not sure what happened or why.  I have over 100 flights with my Mavic and it's been perfect not sure what happened or what Why. Also my batteries were completely charged and I had the throttle up as far as I can go.Also my batteries were completely charged and I had the throttle up as far as it can go

Yesterday I had to perfect flights off a boat offshore in the third flight it started auto landing on me and I pressed cancel several times and we watched it land in the water and I lost it.  Yesterday I had to perfect flights off a boat offshore in the third flight it started auto landing on me and I press cancel several times and we watched it land in the water and I lost it.I have over 100 flights with my Mavic and it's been perfect not sure what happened or why.  I have over 100 flights with my Mavic and it's been perfect not sure what happened or what Why. Also my batteries were completely charged and I had the throttle up as far as I can go.Also my batteries were completely charged and I had the throttle up as far as it can go

Two basic questions -

1)  Why trigger auto-landing with throttle full down?  In the Phantom forum, we were told by DJI that full throttle down won't hurt a thing for fast descents.
2)  Why trigger auto-landing at .5 meters?  I like to fly at less than that and do frequently!  I also prefer to land myself, as I do a much smoother/softer job of it.

Auto-landing for anything other than battery or other mechanical issued is a safety hazard.  Taking control away from the pilot is never good.  THE PILOT is supposed to be responsible for his flight.  When he is locked out of the controls, this can't happen.  Is DJI going to fix what breaks or takes a deep dive when it goes down improperly?  Are they going to step up and take responsibility when it does property damage or injures/kills someone?  I think not.

AG0N-Gary Posted at 2017-3-30 05:16
Two basic questions -

1)  Why trigger auto-landing with throttle full down?  In the Phantom forum, we were told by DJI that full throttle down won't hurt a thing for fast descents.

Isn't there a setting to turn this off?

Gotchock Posted at 2017-3-30 02:52
Hi,

I follow up to my message yesterday

I'm having similar problems to you as well. Have you tried to use any active track features when having issues with auto landing? I get a "Forward Obstacle Sensing not Responding" error. http://forum.dji.com/thread-86553-1-1.html

If you have time, try this whenever you're having the auto landing problem. On mine, if I have the issue with auto landing not working, I can power cycle it and restart with the same battery with everything working again.

This all started with the firmware update around Dec. 25th. Before that I never had an issue.

Hi, new update !

Did some tests yesterday in the same location as before, but during the day.

Auto-landing triggered randomly when i was pushing down the throttle at 100% to lower my altitude.
All sensors when functioning normally and the altitude feedback was correct.

As usual, a switch to sport mode cancelled the landing and gave me back control.

This is clearly a faulty software and I hope it will be solved on next update.

Got an unwelcome auto-landing today.  I was bringing the Mavic in for a landing anyway, but hadn't reached my landing point yet and was over water.  Thankfully, I had read about this issue on these forums, and a quick switch to sport mode got me home.

Gotchock Posted at 2017-4-2 18:15
Hi, new update !

Did some tests yesterday in the same location as before, but during the day.

Definitely a major fault introduced into the latest FW. I really hope DJI makes good on losses caused by their lack of testing. Amazing that they are aware of this dangerous  problem possibility  they've added to their latest FW, but no communications warning pilots about this and work arounds. Irresponsible! The inability to cancel autoland by itself would not be too bad, but when complicated by the bug where full throttle down can initiate autoland at high altitudes......Huston, we have a problem!
I've found the best workaround is turning off landing protection. It also gives full control all the way to the ground. Still makes a soft landing even with full down throttle.

Reading this reminded me why it is good to check in to forums from time to time.  I would not have known (I doubt I would have stumbled on the problem even if "testing" every feature after update was realistic.)

Had been planning to take some shots from the air of my boat carving around the lake.  Can easily imagine that if what is described happened, switching to sport mode might not have occurred to me in time.  Scary.

Gotchock Posted at 2017-3-30 02:52
Hi,

I follow up to my message yesterday

Page 25 of manual warns (new version 1.4 and older versions) of situations where the downward and forward vision systems will have problems.  One of many is flying over dark surfaces (<10 Lux) also so over bright surfaces (> 10,000 Lux).  Which basically means it doesn't work at night.  Also on page 25 it says the downward  vision system is only good between .3 to 13 meters. Also Forward and Downward vision systems may not recognize patterns on the ground in low light (< 100 LUX).  So I would think tha night flying is problematic for the vision systems.

Side note:  Downward vision system includes sonar.  Keep away from animals, the sonar system operates at 40KHz, which is audible to some animals.  Warning on pg. 25.

Gotchock Posted at 2017-4-2 18:15
Hi, new update !

Did some tests yesterday in the same location as before, but during the day.

Check to make sure your sensors are clean and not obstructed, especially the sonic sensors as a piece of dirt or gravel will reflect sonar indicating near the ground even though you are at altitude.  That problem also occurs on the little Parrot Airborne drones with a sonic sensor (Airborne, Mambo, Rolling Spider) and the bigger Beebop.

DOES THE NEW FIRMWARE TODAY v01.03.0550 ADDRESS THIS ISSUE?

Hi all,

I have upgraded to the new firmware and made new tests in different conditions:
- city (day/night)
- suburbs (no interference) (day)

Note that similar tests have been carried out by a friend.
- My friend: no problem at all
- Me: VPS showing correct altitude, then jumping to 0.2-0.5m randomly
If at this moment I am pushing down the throttle: drone trigger landing
If landing is already activated: it stops going down because it thinks it's at 0.5m
The confirmation slider for landing (when you are at 0.5m) is showing and disappearing randomly as well during landing procedure.

THE VPS SYSTEM IS CLEARLY DEFECTIVE. THIS IS A HARDWARE PROBLEM
Only solution to avoid it is to disable the VPS.
I am very disappointed DJI gives no feedback on this and i'll be sending my drone for warranty after my holiday.

Reminder if it happens to you: switch to SPORT MODE !

M4BMW Posted at 2017-4-5 07:22
DOES THE NEW FIRMWARE TODAY v01.03.0550 ADDRESS THIS ISSUE?

For anybody experiencing these symptoms:

- Mavic ascending on its own
- Mavic entering auto-landing even from high altitude when the left stick is held down
- The VPS height on the screen continuously or intermittently wrong with a reading of eg 0.1m

you are most likely experiencing the VPS issues described in this thread: http://forum.dji.com/thread-77495-1-1.html

DJI claimed to have fixed this with a firmware update, but many (including myself) feel like this seems more like a hardware issue than simply software. I suggest you post about your problem in that thread, and also start a support case with DJI. If Mavics are still plagued by VPS issues, they need to know about it.

IMPORTANT TIP in the meantime: You should be able to prevent the auto-landing problem by disabling Landing Protection, but if the Mavic does enter an auto-landing, you will not be able to cancel it using the throttle stick or the Pause button. This is a bug in firmwares v1.03.0500 and 0.550. The only way to abort the auto-landing for now is to flick the Sport mode switch on the RC. See my thread here for more details: http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=89386

Gotchock Posted at 2017-4-8 01:57
Hi all,

I have upgraded to the new firmware and made new tests in different conditions:

Did you try disabling just the Landing Protection, so that you can still benefit from the rest of the VPS system's features?

Jason problem is more than that : for example active track mode requires you to gave Vps enabled. But as the altitude sent by the drone is wrong, you can't use it ("altitude too low").

So navigation modes are almost unusable, and of course vertical positioning is not as precise, which is a shame...

I will open a support case as soon as I go back from holiday.

NB: I see today there is a new firmware update. I will try to update if I get a stable connection then I'll if it solves anything...

Gotchock Posted at 2017-4-13 02:23
Jason problem is more than that : for example active track mode requires you to gave Vps enabled. But as the altitude sent by the drone is wrong, you can't use it ("altitude too low").

So navigation modes are almost unusable, and of course vertical positioning is not as precise, which is a shame...

I didn't mean that disabling Landing Protection would solve the problem, I just meant that until the problem is fixed, you can prevent the auto-landing by simply disabling the Landing Protection, without disabling the whole VPS. I personally do think it's a hardware issue, and you'll probably end up having to send it back.

Oh, and by the way, with firmware v01.03.0600 DJI thankfully added back the ability to cancel a forced auto-landing by throttling up.

Hi jason,

Disabling the landing protection does nothing: the drone does not allow a vertical speed higher than -0.3m/s, which is critical when you are above home at high altitude with low battery.

I've updated to the new firmre:
- I can now cancel the landing procedure with a throttle up
- VPS problems are still here

I'm opening a support case.

I have sent mine back to DJI. They recieved it on the 6th and still there is no update to the repair progress on the mavic. I hope they address the sensor issue. There is no question that some of us have a defective VPS. I will post if and when I get it back.

i got same issue here, firmaware v01.03.0800. last time i switch to sport mode, nothing change, happen to me at 2 different location, on the open space like field & beach

any more news about this. i also this is hardware issue (the battery, my other 2 batteries works fine, hopefully)

Hi !

I follow up on my problem:
- I sent back the drone for repair in China (where I bought it)
- they told me no problem had been found and that they would return the drone to me
- I contacted the support to hold the drone in repair: fortunately I had recorded my screen during during a flight and we can see clearly the VPS activating even at high altitude -> i sent it to them (wasn't easy as most of the cloud services and youtube are blocked in China (where the support is I think))
- One week of emails back and forth after I sent back the drone, they finally assessed the problem !
- I got obviously a motherboard replacement (1800 RMB = 230 EUR) - that was NOT charged to me as I was under warranty
- Drone was repaired and sent back to my friend's address in China in 2 days.

I tested extensively the drone in Norway last week: no problem at all it is repaired !

CONCLUSION:
- this is a hardware problem
- DJI will accept the repair under warranty terms
- you need to explain EXTREMELY well the problem with PROOF (record you smartphone screen)
- I advise to include an enveloppe in the box with a clear explanation and a video on

I encountered this problem today on my Spark .500 FW and DJI GO 4 App 4.1.4 on Android.

I was going up to 500M and reached maximum altitude (audible warning) at that point I was in the middle of a cloud.

I started to see my height values  fluctuating between 0 to -ve 5 (red colour) and tried to bring it down. Then started to Auto Land .

No control available then and return to home didn't work either. Disconnected and reconnecting remote also didn't work.  Thankfully it landed in nearby golf course and I would take off and fly back.

After looking through this thread, it does seem to be related to the downward vision positioning system and being in the cloud causing it to give a wrong reading.

Wasnt' aware that Sport mode is an option to disengage landing but glad I wasn't over water or  hazardous landing location.

I also got this problem on my Mavic .900
Any new information?