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What settings to use when flying inside a forest?
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Austevik Dronef
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Im doing a video about forests and want to fly low and through the forest, and wonder what if anyone know the best settings regarding the obstacle avoidance settings.
What to turn on or turn off.
Want to fly close to the trees but not into them in short: a balance of the best and safest settings.
If anyone can give some tips on this I would be very happy.
2017-4-30
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RedHotPoker
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The best method to record a forest is to fly well above it. Even small branches can crash your drone, and the OA may not see them.

Be very careful, if you insist on flying through the trees...


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Labroides
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The manual has a long list of limitations that can affect the obstacle avoidance sensors.
You'll probably run into a few in a forest situation so you should read them.
Depending on the canopy cover, GPS might also be a problem there.
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Fruxen
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Obstacle avoidance on will stop the aircraft from passing through tight spaces and close to trees even if it actually would be able to pass, that can be annoying now and then. But other times it might save you from a crash because of pilot error. Like you said, it's a balance.

Other than that I would suggest Course Lock and fly the aircraft in straight lines in and out from your position, where you can see a clear open path in the forest.
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Dobmatt
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As for now there's no 100% foolproof method when flying P4P below forest canopy and between tree trunks. Tripod mode with occasionally activated Narrow Sensing feature seems to be the most suitable, as being basically developed for indoor flying where the GPS anchor is not available. Unfortunately at this moment there is no way to disable GPS and rely exclusively on Obstacle Avoidance System when flying low thru forest. By default the drone is trying to get GPS grip as the most secure way of maintaining it's position. However, low and below branches (with green foliage in particular) GPS reception may be lost occasionally, causing automatic switch into Atti mode. When this happen, the drone will lost the flying smoothness of Tripod mode and may drift into nearest obstacle. Bottom line: a plenty of practicing, particularly in Atti mode, is required to master the art of low flying in tight spaces outdoor ...
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Geebax
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First step is to get yourself a grant to buy lots of drones. You are going to need them.......
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Austevik Dronef
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Geebax Posted at 2017-5-1 01:24
First step is to get yourself a grant to buy lots of drones. You are going to need them.......

Hehe good tip
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Austevik Dronef
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Thank you for the comment and tips. I suspected that it wouldnt be easy doing this, and I dont want to risk anything while flying.

Flying in tripod mode in a straight line with full vision of the drone and the obstacles seems like the best way. And that was my first thought too. Thanks for the heads up that I might loose GPS and go into Atti.
It's that or picking the drone up, press record and walk around with it over my head.
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Nigel_
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Austevik Dronef Posted at 2017-5-1 02:09
Thank you for the comment and tips. I suspected that it wouldnt be easy doing this, and I dont want to risk anything while flying.

Flying in tripod mode in a straight line with full vision of the drone and the obstacles seems like the best way. And that was my first thought too. Thanks for the heads up that I might loose GPS and go into Atti.

If you loose GPS then as long as there is decent lighting you will still have VPS and shouldn't notice a difference until you fly into a dark shaded area.  Try to fly around mid day, not in the evenings!
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Austevik Dronef
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Nigel_ Posted at 2017-5-1 02:23
If you loose GPS then as long as there is decent lighting you will still have VPS and shouldn't notice a difference until you fly into a dark shaded area.  Try to fly around mid day, not in the evenings!

Thanks, will do that.
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DIott3113
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I would suggest you use Tripod to activate as much collision avoidance functionality as possible and also to limit your speed.
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Fruxen
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Btw also be aware that moving foliage or whirled up leaves under the aircraft will easily disorient the visual positioning system and suddenly move around trying to "correct" it's position. The more I think about it ATTI mode would be a wise choice. ;)
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Austevik Dronef Posted at 2017-5-1 02:09
Thank you for the comment and tips. I suspected that it wouldnt be easy doing this, and I dont want to risk anything while flying.

Flying in tripod mode in a straight line with full vision of the drone and the obstacles seems like the best way. And that was my first thought too. Thanks for the heads up that I might loose GPS and go into Atti.

"It's that or picking the drone up, press record and walk around with it over my head"

Now this serious cheating! That is not allowed!  


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Fruxen
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I made a video last year with my Syma X8G and actioncam combo. Everything comes to life with moving 3D shots inside the forest instead of just flying above it. I flew in headless mode and... that was the only available setting on the Syma.


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Capo
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I live on a forested property and fly often below tree level. I often "walk the dog" for practice. The mode depends on how tight the area is. VPS is your friend as long as you stay low enough and have enough light for it to work. Tripod mode works only if the trail you are on is quite wide. But in a narrow trail, the side obstacle sensors want too much room. In this case, narrow obstacle sensing might be needed. Atti mode would be real tough in tight quarters due to drift, but it's necessary if you plan to climb above the VPS limit as loss of GPS in P mode will limit your height. Shooting waterfalls might a situation you'd use this. Climbing may allow GPS to connect though avoiding this limit. Do not fly in the woods in windy conditions. I would be very hesitant to fly off trail through the woods though, unless it's really mature, open woods. Keep to the trails. Also set signal loss to hover, not RTH just in case. You don't want it doing RTH through overhanging trees. That being said, it is very satisfying to shoot video of a walk through the woods. Would be nice video to use when exercising on a treadmill and such in winter.
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Eric13
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@ Dronef:
You might also want to make yourself familiar with "Narrow Sensing":




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Austevik Dronef
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Capo Posted at 2017-5-1 06:36
I live on a forested property and fly often below tree level. I often "walk the dog" for practice. The mode depends on how tight the area is. VPS is your friend as long as you stay low enough and have enough light for it to work. Tripod mode works only if the trail you are on is quite wide. But in a narrow trail, the side obstacle sensors want too much room. In this case, narrow obstacle sensing might be needed. Atti mode would be real tough in tight quarters due to drift, but it's necessary if you plan to climb above the VPS limit as loss of GPS in P mode will limit your height. Shooting waterfalls might a situation you'd use this. Climbing may allow GPS to connect though avoiding this limit. Do not fly in the woods in windy conditions. I would be very hesitant to fly off trail through the woods though, unless it's really mature, open woods. Keep to the trails. Also set signal loss to hover, not RTH just in case. You don't want it doing RTH through overhanging trees. That being said, it is very satisfying to shoot video of a walk through the woods. Would be nice video to use when exercising on a treadmill and such in winter.

Thanks alot for good advice. Will definintly use the narrow obstacle sensing, and setting and setting the RTH to hover is very smart also.
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Austevik Dronef
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Eric13 Posted at 2017-5-1 06:34
@ Dronef:
You might also want to make yourself familiar with "Narrow Sensing":


Thank you.
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ACW
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Regarding the camera settings - this will depend on the amount of light inside the forest and with close up subjects the motion blur will need to be controlled through the aperture. So set the camera to manual and adjust the ISO and iris to reflect the environment - I doubt you'll need an ND filter for this environment. With regards to controlling the P4P - I'd recommend using Tripod mode to take full advantage of the IR side sensors/360 avoidance. Select the narrow sensing feature in the C1/C2 drop down and don't forget to hold down the chosen C button when being used. Keep clear VLOS of drone whilst Tripod mode will massively slow down the EXPO of the quad giving you very controlled flight movements. Still ensure to fly over paths within the forest rather than into the bush as small tree branches may not be detected by you or the OA. If done successfully it will provide you with some amazing footage but you really need to be very careful. Also, keep the drone under 10m AGL so that the downward vision system remains fully effective during the whole flight incase you lose a GPS lock.
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Austevik Dronef
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ACW Posted at 2017-5-1 22:24
Regarding the camera settings - this will depend on the amount of light inside the forest and with close up subjects the motion blur will need to be controlled through the aperture. So set the camera to manual and adjust the ISO and iris to reflect the environment - I doubt you'll need an ND filter for this environment. With regards to controlling the P4P - I'd recommend using Tripod mode to take full advantage of the IR side sensors/360 avoidance. Select the narrow sensing feature in the C1/C2 drop down and don't forget to hold down the chosen C button when being used. Keep clear VLOS of drone whilst Tripod mode will massively slow down the EXPO of the quad giving you very controlled flight movements. Still ensure to fly over paths within the forest rather than into the bush as small tree branches may not be detected by you or the OA. If done successfully it will provide you with some amazing footage but you really need to be very careful. Also, keep the drone under 10m AGL so that the downward vision system remains fully effective during the whole flight incase you lose a GPS lock.

Very good tips! Thank you. Cant wait to get out and start this video!
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Dobmatt
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Fruxen Posted at 2017-5-1 06:06
Btw also be aware that moving foliage or whirled up leaves under the aircraft will easily disorient the visual positioning system and suddenly move around trying to "correct" it's position. The more I think about it ATTI mode would be a wise choice. ;)

This is another issue I wasn't taking into consideration! Indeed it may be true as the situation is somehow similar to flying low over shaky water: the drone will try to maintain it's position scanning the features of surroundings, but if things around are violently moving disturbed by prop wash ,,, Not good, not good at all ...
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Dobmatt
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Fruxen Posted at 2017-5-1 06:18
I made a video last year with my Syma X8G and actioncam combo. Everything comes to life with moving 3D shots inside the forest instead of just flying above it. I flew in headless mode and... that was the only available setting on the Syma.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMEMYO9Y2XI

Beautiful! This is exactly the kind of droning I'll try to master this year with P4P, no matter what ...
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Nigel_
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Dobmatt Posted at 2017-5-1 22:41
This is another issue I wasn't taking into consideration! Indeed it may be true as the situation is somehow similar to flying low over shaky water: the drone will try to maintain it's position scanning the features of surroundings, but if things around are violently moving disturbed by prop wash ,,, Not good, not good at all ...


I think normally it can tell the difference between leaves on the ground and leaves flying about.  It has two downward facing eyes so that it can judge the height of each leaf and work out what is on the ground and what is not,  it knows which is the ground because of the ultrasonic range finder.

Note that on some surfaces the ultrasonics will have difficulty from around 8m, other surfaces they will work up to 15 so be careful above 8m.  Also, the 3D vision can't work when it is too low, the images from the two eyes don't overlap enough - it starts to loose accuracy below about 1m.
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johnsr
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As underlined in the previous posts flying in a forest is tricky. Keep in mind that thinner branches with leaves can get pulled down into your props if you fly too close beneath them. Also many tiny twigs are nearly invisible while flying. I usually walk through the planned flight path (as best as I can). A "copilot" to watch the flight from a different angle can be helpful. Its a good idea to plan a simple exit or retreat. Good clips will require a few takes to get things smooth.
Have fun & don't panic...
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stalker
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johnsr Posted at 2017-5-2 00:01
As underlined in the previous posts flying in a forest is tricky. Keep in mind that thinner branches with leaves can get pulled down into your props if you fly too close beneath them. Also many tiny twigs are nearly invisible while flying. I usually walk through the planned flight path (as best as I can). A "copilot" to watch the flight from a different angle can be helpful. Its a good idea to plan a simple exit or retreat. Good clips will require a few takes to get things smooth.
Have fun & don't panic...

Never lose sight of your drone. I found out the hard way that the P4P doesn't recognize small branches and I was standing too far away to notice in time. Result: hampered propellers and a fatal fall. The gimbal broke so that's my first DJI Care Refresh...

Good luck and please post some results!
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Dobmatt
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johnsr Posted at 2017-5-2 00:01
As underlined in the previous posts flying in a forest is tricky. Keep in mind that thinner branches with leaves can get pulled down into your props if you fly too close beneath them. Also many tiny twigs are nearly invisible while flying. I usually walk through the planned flight path (as best as I can). A "copilot" to watch the flight from a different angle can be helpful. Its a good idea to plan a simple exit or retreat. Good clips will require a few takes to get things smooth.
Have fun & don't panic...

All right, I'm going to order 2 spare Phantoms and start practicing low'n'slow'n'between the trees flying ...
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Delta Nine
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Geebax Posted at 2017-5-1 01:24
First step is to get yourself a grant to buy lots of drones. You are going to need them.......

Or just learn how to fly in atti, like everyone should be doing before they try anything like this.
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Nigel_
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Delta Nine Posted at 2017-5-2 01:38
Or just learn how to fly in atti, like everyone should be doing before they try anything like this.

When you learn to drive a car, do you do it with the anti lock brakes, stability control, power steering etc disabled, and then also disable it when you do something safety critical?

There may be a safety advantage to disabling those systems to drive on ice, but almost nobody does, and if they tried they would probably crash because they don't have the required skills and experience!
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Delta Nine
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Nigel_ Posted at 2017-5-2 01:59
When you learn to drive a car, do you do it with the anti lock brakes, stability control, power steering etc disabled, and then also disable it when you do something safety critical?

There may be a safety advantage to disabling those systems to drive on ice, but almost nobody does, and if they tried they would probably crash because they don't have the required skills and experience!

I get your analogy, but it doesn't apply. If you wanted to take the car 'off road' you would drop it into four wheeled drive mode and learn how to drive 'off road'.

He wants to film in a forest (off road) the best way is to have complete control of the drone/camera in atti mode with custom stick settings for smooth buttery shots. And he can even practice in the wide open first.
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Capo
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Dobmatt Posted at 2017-5-1 22:41
This is another issue I wasn't taking into consideration! Indeed it may be true as the situation is somehow similar to flying low over shaky water: the drone will try to maintain it's position scanning the features of surroundings, but if things around are violently moving disturbed by prop wash ,,, Not good, not good at all ...

I haven't had too much of an issue with this, even with leaves blowing up, however I do suggest anyone that does this, have some practice in ATTI mode just in case and also practice hand catching. I usually stay pretty close when doing this, and usually fly at eye level as that's the experience I want to video. A hand catch when things get out of hand may be the best way to save the day.
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Capo
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Delta Nine Posted at 2017-5-2 03:35
I get your analogy, but it doesn't apply. If you wanted to take the car 'off road' you would drop it into four wheeled drive mode and learn how to drive 'off road'.

He wants to film in a forest (off road) the best way is to have complete control of the drone/camera in atti mode with custom stick settings for smooth buttery shots. And he can even practice in the wide open first.

I would agree for someone very experienced, but ATTI mode drifts a lot for less experienced users such as myself. I find VPS very helpful in the woods, but tripod is too restrictive. I think VPS with narrow sensing is the best option for less experienced pilots, however I would suggest that practice in ATTI mode is still required in case it does switch to that mode.
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Dobmatt
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Delta Nine Posted at 2017-5-2 01:38
Or just learn how to fly in atti, like everyone should be doing before they try anything like this.

If the ability to fly efficiently in Atti mode is all you can recommend, than why I would bother to deal with Phantom 4 Pro obstacle sensing technology, having 2+ years of experience with previous generations of DJI drones of various size? Believe me, piloting in Atti mode in such scenario is a suicidal decision and I'm not going to make this call ... Or maybe I will if Mother Nature allowes ...
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Dobmatt
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This guy is trying to do just that. He's annoyingly boring perfectionist, but actually quite brave piloting the drone in tight spaces, I must admit. Apparently here he's not aware of newly implemented Narrow Sensing feature ...

Oh, wait ... He just find it!



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I would suggest getting some small witch's hats or other markers. Lay them out  in an open area and then practice flying through them. Do this with GPS and in ATTI modes. It is best to master the control when you are only hitting virtual obstacles before trying it with the real thing. Only when you can navigate a path through those exercises with confidence will you be ready to go into the forest.
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Dobmatt
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Cabansail Posted at 2017-5-2 22:08
I would suggest getting some small witch's hats or other markers. Lay them out  in an open area and then practice flying through them. Do this with GPS and in ATTI modes. It is best to master the control when you are only hitting virtual obstacles before trying it with the real thing. Only when you can navigate a path through those exercises with confidence will you be ready to go into the forest.

Yep, I'm considering that as well, thanks for suggestion. Just can't figure any man made obstacles soft enough ... yet.
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Cabansail
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Dobmatt Posted at 2017-5-2 22:23
Yep, I'm considering that as well, thanks for suggestion. Just can't figure any man made obstacles soft enough ... yet.

You just need markers on the ground. Each one represents a tree and you fly clear of them. If you fly over it then that us a hit/fail
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Eric13 Posted at 2017-5-1 06:08
"It's that or picking the drone up, press record and walk around with it over my head"

Now this serious cheating! That is not allowed!

Yep Eric that's my suggestion BUT don't tell anybody you are holding the drone by hand and make sure there are a few propellers intruding into  shot. The result will drive the rest of us mad trying to copy. Hmm will probably increase DJI turnover as well
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Austevik Dronef Posted at 2017-5-1 22:33
Very good tips! Thank you. Cant wait to get out and start this video!

Aloha Austevik,

     As Dobmatt noted, "Tripod mode with occasionally activated Narrow Sensing feature seems to be the most suitable" is the best strategy.   I fly and train in the jungle around my house here in Hawai'i.  Here are some screen captures of my flight today.  I wanted to see how well Tripod and Narrow Sensing worked.  It works real well!
     The GPS went out fairly early, but as you can see, it was quite sunny.  The VPS worked great.  The Tripod was very tight and Narrow Sensing was excellent.  You have to remember that Narrow Sensing does not keep you from hitting anything, it only tells you how close objects are on the side.  Narrow Sensing splits open objects that are within a few meters of each other to allow you to pass through instead of stopping you from passing.  It does not then stop you from hitting objects on the side, you have to keep from hitting objects on the side.  But, boy do the alarms go off!

     When I got to the other side, the foilage was too dense to even penetrate with my parabolics and my nVidia Shield K1 did its thing, but I expected it and did the restart.  The test was exciting but uneventful.  Tripod even stayed on during the restart.  As long as you have direct line of sight with your Phantom, you should not have a problem.

     Hope this helps!

Aloha and Drone On!
TargetTrees.jpg
Getting Down.jpg
Lost GPS.jpg
Run Gauntlet.jpg
Restart.jpg
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Cetacean
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Austevik Dronef Posted at 2017-5-1 22:33
Very good tips! Thank you. Cant wait to get out and start this video!

Aloha Austevik,

     Here is a screen capture of the next tree tunnel for the Tripod testing.  I will try coming in from the other side since I will be able to see the obstacles better.  The Phantom will have to descend vertically to get to the tunnel.  Fortunately, the foliage will be less dense so I will prepare for a restart, but do not expect one.  The canopy is thin enough that I may not even loose GPS.

Aloha and Drone On!
Next Tree Test.jpg
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Nigel_
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Can you find some mini ones of these?



Maybe best not to do it over water!
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