Hi

I am going slightly insane here.  I have only had my Mavic for a week and I love every single thing about this drone except for the noisy / grainy image.  Can someone please download and view these videos and tell me if noise / grian is an issue or if i'm just expecting too much from this sensor?  

I have tried sharpness at 0 and -1 but takes a lot of detail from the image and i'm still left with a noise / grain.  I have also tried resetting camera to no avail.

Please take the time to dowload the larger first video as the issue is much more pronounced.  This was shot in auto almost right out of the box so i'm not sure if the camera was setting ISO above 100.

Video 1 (846mb)This was a bit of a cloudy afternoon on full auto.

Link - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8kybrsds5qc81bw/DJI_0002.MOV?dl=0

AUTO MODE (out of the box)

Resolution - 4k
FPS - 25
Format - PAL




Video 2 (80mb)  This is shot in ideal conditions with full sunlight in Manual mode at ISO 100.

MANUAL MODE

Link - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ty65tokxt3tcwbw/DJI_0030.MP4?dl=0

ISO -100
Sharpness +1
Colour Profile - Normal
White Balance - Sunny
Resolution - 4k
FPS - 25
Format - PAL

Thank you for input in advance.

Kieran

We all do have wishes, right?
Sensor is not the best in bad light conditions.
Choosing sharpness -1 or 0 means that the Mavic is doing all the noise reduction, allot of people are happy with that.

(I shoot dlog, +1/0/-1, 4k with 30fps/60 shutter speed, using ND filters to keep exposure within limits and the shutter speed fixed. Try to shoot ISO100.)
Letting my computer do all the hard work with noise reduction, this is integrated into premiere pro.
Using a plug-in that is specialised in doing removing noise.
Also created some de-noise profiles for the Mavic sensor, so in about every situation with low ISO, the most noise can be removed wit out loss of detail.
To me it is worth the investment, but I can imagine that other people cannot afford this additional cost.
example of video found on youtube(not mine)

I feel you are expecting too much from the sensor stack, which does quite well in good light but suffers in low and high-contrast lighting conditions.

There are a few things you could try:
* Unless you have a good reason to stick at 25fps PAL, I'd switch to 30fps NTSC (your computer won't care and you'll get smoother motion)
* The "Normal" color profile actually accentuates green, which can cause problems. Give TrueColor a try.
* +1 sharpening in strong light will only accentuate noise. In strong light even a 0 setting seems overly sharp to my taste. YMMV

As a brand new MP user, I have not experimented a lot with the video settings.
All I know is I shoot -1 -1 0 D-Cinelike and I set ev compensation to -0.7
I like the output so far, taking in consideration the fact that it is produced by a tiny sensor with a tiny lens.

Thank you for the replies.  I guess I figured in full sunlight at iso 100 and sharpness 0 or -1, no noise would be visible.  

I'll try shooting at -1 or 0 in good light but I heard it's a good idea to have the inbuilt NR turned off at all times because of the decent NR available in post?  I might have to purchase Neat Video and a decent profile in order to clean up the noise because at the moment it's a bit of a deal breaker for me.  
I'll try a different colour profile (True Colour) but i'm not ure this will clean things up much but i'll certainly test it out.

Looking at the first video with a bit of cloud cover on auto, the noise is terrible.

Thanks

Kieran

djiuser_30M5h3Q Posted at 2017-11-28 13:25
Thank you for the replies.  I guess I figured in full sunlight at iso 100 and sharpness 0 or -1, no noise would be visible.  

I'll try shooting at -1 or 0 in good light but I heard it's a good idea to have the inbuilt NR turned off at all times because of the decent NR available in post?  I might have to purchase Neat Video and a decent profile in order to clean up the noise because at the moment it's a bit of a deal breaker for me.  

Can I please ask that some people post their raw footage on Dropbox with a list of settings used so I have something to directly compare with???

Thanks in advance!!!

It is quite the same as the situation that the users posted. I had reflected this case and our engineers had discussed this issue before, please refer to our engineers' answer below:

I don't think that's a defective camera in terms of noise. Firstly please note that LOG footage increases dynamic range at the cost of noise. Meanwhile, if you shoot complex scenes with very fine and randomly moving details, it is impossible to fit everything in the H.264 stream and some details are discarded by the encoder, which repeats every 8 frames. This may result in a flicking look.

Recently in a firmware update, we slightly adjusted gamma which may induce a little bit different in noise. Not sure if that's the tiny difference that you are looking at. If yes, switching to "vivid" color can do some help. More details below:
https://forum.dji.com/forum.php? ... 1827&fromuid=502949
                                                                  

DJI Thor Posted at 2017-11-28 23:13
It is quite the same as the situation that the users posted. I had reflected this case and our engineers had discussed this issue before, please refer to our engineers' answer below:

I don't think that's a defective camera in terms of noise. Firstly please note that LOG footage increases dynamic range at the cost of noise. Meanwhile, if you shoot complex scenes with very fine and randomly moving details, it is impossible to fit everything in the H.264 stream and some details are discarded by the encoder, which repeats every 8 frames. This may result in a flicking look.

No offense but i'm not shooting DLOG and my issue is not a flicking look every 8 frames it's constant noise / grain.  I look like you have just copied and pasted a random answer that does not relate to my issue.

I'm shooting normal colour profile.  I agree the data rate is quite low for 4k so I will try 2.7k @ 45mbps and see if that helps the situation.

I appreciate the reply none the less.

DJI Thor Posted at 2017-11-28 23:13
It is quite the same as the situation that the users posted. I had reflected this case and our engineers had discussed this issue before, please refer to our engineers' answer below:

I don't think that's a defective camera in terms of noise. Firstly please note that LOG footage increases dynamic range at the cost of noise. Meanwhile, if you shoot complex scenes with very fine and randomly moving details, it is impossible to fit everything in the H.264 stream and some details are discarded by the encoder, which repeats every 8 frames. This may result in a flicking look.

Thank you, I did not know about this LOG increasing the noise level.
But it sort of makes sense now you mention it.
Also the H.264 limitations that might cause for flickering is interesting to know about.
I will also do more testings when I get more confidence flying, but so far I am pleased with the output.

djiuser_30M5h3Q Posted at 2017-11-28 23:37
No offense but i'm not shooting DLOG and my issue is not a flicking look every 8 frames it's constant noise / grain.  I look like you have just copied and pasted a random answer that does not relate to my issue.

I'm shooting normal colour profile.  I agree the data rate is quite low for 4k so I will try 2.7k @ 45mbps and see if that helps the situation.

If I read Thor's reply, he explains a possible reason for your noise issue.
LOG apparently increases the amount of noise. So you might want to test another profile also.
(it sort of makes sense, but I never thought of it that way).
I will do more testings also, for now I mainly fly for getting experienced with the controls.

djiuser_30M5h3Q Posted at 2017-11-28 13:39
Can I please ask that some people post their raw footage on Dropbox with a list of settings used so I have something to directly compare with???

Thanks in advance!!!

I deleted my original footage, since it was just test footage, so I could not share it with you.
If I make more footage I can save some raw clips and share them.
Do you need 2.7K footage or 4K?
(Until now I only shot 1080p)

Montfrooij Posted at 2017-11-29 00:13
If I read Thor's reply, he explains a possible reason for your noise issue.
LOG apparently increases the amount of noise. So you might want to test another profile also.
(it sort of makes sense, but I never thought of it that way).

I appreciate the reply but it was not tailored specifically to my issue as i'm not shooting in DLOG.

djiuser_30M5h3Q Posted at 2017-11-29 00:15
I appreciate the reply but it was not tailored specifically to my issue as i'm not shooting in DLOG.

That was my assumption then. (you also used LOG)
Indeed you never said so in your first post...
At least I find my settings work pretty noise free.
D-Cinelike -1 -1 0

But that might also be because I (so far) only shot in 1080p as the downscaling might remove a lot of noise also.

A lot of testing to do

Keep us posted if you find the 'best' setting for your needs.
I will do the same.

Montfrooij Posted at 2017-11-29 00:20
That was my assumption then. (you also used LOG)
Indeed you never said so in your first post...
At least I find my settings work pretty noise free.

Thanks! and indeed I forgot to post the Colour Profile on my first video.  I will keep you all posted for sure.

Thanks again

djiuser_30M5h3Q Posted at 2017-11-29 00:35
Thanks! and indeed I forgot to post the Colour Profile on my first video.  I will keep you all posted for sure.

Thanks again

Nice.
I'm sure we'll find our best settings soon.
Just takes some experimenting.

There are rather opposite opinions on this on youtube I found out.
Some say you should not shoot LOG since the datastream is too limited and use a colour profile, while others claim LOG is the way to go....

Hello all

I have an update.  I tested all colour profiles at 4k + 2.7k + 1080 and played with sharpness, contrast and saturation.  All was shot at 100 ISO with white balance set to AUTO.  What I have concluded is that the noisy grainy image seems to scale with detail and exposure (forgetting about ISO since I only use 100 which is recommended).  Basically the less grain and noise the less detail in the image.

This is what I have discovered.

1. Different colour profiles have little visible effect on noise / grain.
2. Slightly over exposed images have slightly less noise / grain.
3. 4K with Sharpness set to +1 or more is where noise / grain is at it's worst and picture detail is at it's highest.
4. 2.7K with Sharpness set to 0 is where noise / grain is at it's best (while maintaining an "acceptable level" of detail which is of course subjective.)  Keep in mind setting Sharpness set to 0 or less means auto noise reduction is happening in camera and will need to be correct in post.
5. Forget about 1080, it's rubbish soft.

As a consequence of the tests I have carried out, I will be shooting 2.7k with sharpness set to +1 at 100 ISO only with the image slightly over exposed (+0.3 to +0.7 EV).

This will still give me a super sharp picture (slightly less than 4k) while slightly minimising the grainy / noisy effect and will make my footage a lot easier to deal with being a much smaller file.  The data rate to resolution is also better in 2.7K compared to 4K on paper at least which should theoretically help out somewhat although I couldn't see a major difference concerning this specifically.

I will be purchasing Neat Video plugin and grabbing a profile designed for the Mavic camera in order to hopefully almost completely remove the noise / grain in post.  

Now on a completely separate note, I need to test out which colour settings are best for giving me more range in post while not creating too much work for myself in the process.  Shooting "Normal" for now which looks ok to me.

I would still love some raw files shot in either 2.7 or 4k if anyone can upload some with a list of their settings.  

Thanks!!

Kieran

Vivid is nice. Normal looks a little to bright / overexposed no matter what.

$gambino$ Posted at 2017-11-29 18:25
Vivid is nice. Normal looks a little to bright / overexposed no matter what.

The problem with Vivid is that the colour is quite intense (processed) meaning that you will have less flexibility to adjust the image in post.  This is why a lot of people shoot DLOG.  I don't think I can be bothered with editing DLOG in post and would prefer something a bit more "on the mark" from the get go while still giving me some flexibility.  I am thinking I might even shoot "Normal" or "True Colour" and just lower my Contrast and / or Saturation to give me a bit more flexibility later which is probably a nice balance.  More testing to come.

Update on settings I have found to work really well after doing some test flights this morning.

2.7k @ 25fps PAL (For Australian TV standards).
Manual exposure
Manual white balance (Sunny or Cloudy)
Manual focus (Tap to focus)
ISO 100
Colour Profile - d'cinelike
Sharpness +1 (no in camera NR)
Contrast -1
Saturation -1

This gives me a fairly flat image to work with in post while still maintaining as much detail as you can expect from 2.7k.  4k is sharper but is too noisy / grainy with too many artifacts for my liking.  The file size doesn't help either.

Thanks

Kieran

djiuser_30M5h3Q Posted at 2017-11-29 18:00
Hello all

I have an update.  I tested all colour profiles at 4k + 2.7k + 1080 and played with sharpness, contrast and saturation.  All was shot at 100 ISO with white balance set to AUTO.  What I have concluded is that the noisy grainy image seems to scale with detail and exposure (forgetting about ISO since I only use 100 which is recommended).  Basically the less grain and noise the less detail in the image.

If you like you can get a profile from me for your mavic sensor, setting file also included