Do the Phantom 4 motor bearings need oil?

There's lots of videos for Phantom 3 and below of people oiling the bearings, but non for the 4. Is it a new bearing system, can they be oiled or is it a motor replacement if the bearings go?

If you have clear knowledge on this, I would appreciate hearing from you.

Thanks for your time
Jamie

No, you should not oil the motors on the Phantom 4 (or Phantom 3).

i agree with msinger ....

Bearings in the brushless motors that DJI uses in its quads are sealed bearings and never require lubricant. If you oil these bearings they become dirt and dust magnets actually decreasing their lifespan..

Those bearings should last a lifetime without any type of service. Like was mentioned, if you are in a dirty environment, the oil can actually attract dust particles. A little blow off with low pressure compressed air might not be a bad idea in some cases. But the bearings are actually sealed anyway, lubricating them is not intended.

Agree with all the above never lubricate any bearings on your drone.
If you find you have dust or grit in the motors you are far better to use low presure compressed air to blow out any contamination.

I would never oil anything at all on the AC.

After the recent update to .700 in my P4 Std. and the shaking and howling it does on landing, I thought the bearing had failed in one motor.

On the RC heli board I found some use a thin silicon oil on their sealed (non-ceramic ball) helicopter bearings and it will wick into the bearing as it's almost like water.  I doubt if the bearings in these are of a high quality nor ceramic ball equipped and probably could use a drop once in a while, maybe annually.

I got some sewing machine oil (German Pfaff oil for embroidery and sewing machines.) and used a very fine tip CA glue nozzle from the hobby store that looks like a hair that can be put onto the oil can's spout.  About all you can get is one drop max out of the tiny thing and it is long enough to get into the shaft and bearing area.  I blow the dirt out before I apply it and spin it by hand for a while, and then blow it out again with compressed air.

So far so good - knock on wood.

Now if DJI would address their bad firmware matters for the shaking and howling on landing, maybe within a year at least.

Sorry but WRONG !!

The motors in DJI products are SHIELDED bearings - NOT sealed.

Second In a dust / grit environment - you would suffer MORE damage to the motors bearings by them being 'dry'.

It would be normal to not lubricate any Phantom motors in their designed life and use. But we are humans and we use out P's near the sea ... in dusty conditions ... in our sandy backyards .... in fact in what are actually quite hostile environment to any motor.

I have described a few times the method of lub'g a Phantom 3 motors bearings and I imagine a P4 would be similar.

It requires Sewing Machine OIl or LCO as we term it in the biz. A tiny drop wicked onto the shaft side when motor is unmounted and inverted ... spin the motor to get the LCO to wick in ... which it most certainly does ...

I have BL hobby motors in boats, planes, drones, heli's that all benefit from a drop of LCO ... and not one has suffered from use of lub .. in fact a number have gone from 'squeaky' motors to clean quiet runners with that tiny drop.

Nigel

R&L Aerial photography Posted at 2018-4-18 03:18
Bearings in the brushless motors that DJI uses in its quads are sealed bearings and never require lubricant. If you oil these bearings they become dirt and dust magnets actually decreasing their lifespan..

Sorry - not correct.

It is often wrongly posted by some others perpetuating the myth of sealed bearings ... they are SHIELDED bearings ...

Check out the Part numbers ... all bearings have an international ID system so you can replace ... you will find I am correct.

In fact I have never found any BL motor with sealed bearings and that includes expensive Hacker and Hyperion brands - and certyainly not the cheap motors we have in P's !!

Nigel

Just to labour a point .........

IF the bearings were SEALED ... how would dust and grit get in ? So saying they are Sealed and then saying OIl will bring in dust etc. ??



Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-4-18 08:05
Sorry but WRONG !!

The motors in DJI products are SHIELDED bearings - NOT sealed.

Actually the bearings are “sealed” meaning they don’t need to be oiled but for whatever reason it’s probably not a good idea to bust out the old oil can and start pumping oil into a tiny brushless motor. Also, last time I checked, dirt and dust kinda stick to oil a little bit but maybe you use a different kind of oil than the rest of us? Thanks for the help,anyway?

solentlife Posted at 2018-4-18 08:05
Sorry but WRONG !!

The motors in DJI products are SHIELDED bearings - NOT sealed.

Actually the bearings are “sealed” meaning they don’t need to be oiled but for whatever reason it’s probably not a good idea to bust out the old oil can and start pumping oil into a tiny brushless motor. Also, last time I checked, dirt and dust kinda sticks to oil a little bit but maybe you use a different kind of oil than the rest of us? Thanks for the help,anyway?

You obviously do not understand these motors then ....

They are Shielded ..... motors come in basically three forms when it comes to bearings :

Plain open type.
Shielded as we have on the Phantoms
Sealed which are reserved for extreme environment use.

The use of LCO (Sewing Machine Oil) is fine because

1. It is very light and thin - easily wicked in
2. Is used also as a cleaning / flushing agent
3. Is not like higher viscosity oils that can create a 'sticky' residue.

To those who don't believe - fine - not my problem.Just for the record - I have been in Fuels and Oil business for more years than I care to remember ....

Some of you are more than likely running fuel in your car based on one of my blends provided to various Oil Majors !!

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-4-18 11:05
You obviously do not understand these motors then ....

They are Shielded ..... motors come in basically three forms when it comes to bearings :

I don’t usually take my grandmothers sewing machine out for a flight but if I do,I will certainly use “sewing machine lube”

Good explanation of the differences between "Shielded" and "Sealed" bearings on RC gear:  

An interesting video.  I'm still not quite sold though.  

First - I just don't see a problem.  If we had a problem with motor bearings failing and quads dropping out of the sky, we'd be looking for a solution.  But where's the problem?  Who has had their quad drop due to bad bearings?  There must be somebody out there in this world who can say this has happened to him.  

How come DJI doesn't recommend lubricating their motors?  In fact, when asked, their representatives tell us to do the opposite.  They tell us NOT to lubricate the motor bearings.  Why would this be?  

This vid was done over three years ago.  Surely there is a vid somewhere demonstrating the lubricating process on a DJI motor.  Where is it?  

Banggood.. aren't they the guys who make those aftermarket batteries that fail mid-flight?  The going joke was, if you use a Banggood battery, your AC will BANG GOOD!  Not sure if I want to put their oil on my motor bearings.  

Maybe the guys at Banggood are smarter than the DJI engineers and we should dismiss DJI as a clown act and embrace Banggood, their products and their wisdom.  Maybe that's it.  

Thanks for posting

Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-4-18 13:28
An interesting video.  I'm still not quite sold though.  

First - I just don't see a problem.  If we had a problem with motor bearings failing and quads dropping out of the sky, we'd be looking for a solution.  But where's the problem?  Who has had their quad drop due to bad bearings?  There must be somebody out there in this world who can say this has happened to him.  

I’ve flown brushless lipo motors for at least 10 years and have only had one fail and it was due to me abusing it, I used to large of a prop and got the motor hot, hot.. never had a bearing failure or heard of one for that matter..

Hellsgate Posted at 2018-4-18 04:12
Agree with all the above never lubricate any bearings on your drone.
If you find you have dust or grit in the motors you are far better to use low presure compressed air to blow out any contamination.

I would use a vacuum cleaner and just put the hose over the motor to get out dust. The best super suction vacuums are shop vac, any central vacuum system or kenmore. I got plastic chips in my motor once and putting a vacuum hose over the drone motor to get out the plastic chips.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to respond. I've opened a can of worms, but when DJI DON'T release any official processes for maintaining a drone, then all we can do is investigate and make the best decision.

The reason behind the question, is I believe bearings in one of the Phantom 4 motors is not 100%. It sounds rougher than the others and it feels different to the others. I fly the drone daily and am working out if I replace the motor or oil the bearings, and as the motors are difficult to get to, I'm trying to work out the best solution.

Thanks again for your time

I would expect the bearings to have a bit of factory installed grease to lubricate them and keep the dust out.  Pouring oil into them, especially oil designed for cleaning like sewing machine oil, may over time remove the grease  and then allow the bearings to dry out and dust to get in.  So if you are going to oil them, you need to do it regularly, after every flight, like with a sewing machine or steam engine wheel bearing, if you don't oil them then you can replace the bearing when it gets noisy like a modern car wheel bearing which is also packed with grease for life.  Given that there is no access to the bearings without disassembly, or any oil hole provided, oiling every flight is not practical and was obviously not intended when the aircraft was designed.

If I had a noisy motor bearing then I would try disassembling it and try putting some extra grease in, maybe the factory didn't put enough, not oil that will dry up after a bit of use.  Or alternatively just replace the motor which is probably the better option.

However, I don't know what is in there, I've never even looked at the Phantom motor bearings.

What we need is the facts, in a proper service manual, giving the correct lubricants to use, correct torque values for the screws, correct disassembly/assembly sequence etc, not guesses from people with experience in other aircraft/machinery...

Well heres my 2 cents if you have a noisey or rough feeling motor replace it dont take the risk of it seizing up they are not that expensive to replace with a new one.
Compare the price of a new motor compared to a new drone i think the $ difference will speak for itself.
Ive never lubed a drone motor and ive never had one fail.
But the choice is ultimatly yours its your drone do what you like with it.

As I ORIGINALLY said...

It is not necessary to lub these motors in normal use and they should outlast usual owners use. But as I also said later - they are cheap BL motors - nothing special about them at all ... so replacement is cheap and cheerful.

Rough sounding motor though can be due to debris in it or just plain worn out. My P3S developed noisy motors after only short life ... and it was obvious unless a manufacturing error - it was likely debris ...

I dismounted the motors and did as I described earlier - those motors then ran as sweet as cherry pie ... with LESS noise than when out of box new. I never had to lub again except after those motors going for a swim in the river which totalled the P3S electronics - they are now fitted to my SK450 FPV drone ... running just as sweet and never lub'd again.

I'm sorry but I read negativity as just that ...

As for DJI - given the conflicting info given by DJI techs on various subjects such as battery use / maintenance etc. etc. - any comment about motors unless it comes from the ACTUAL manufacturer (who DJI is NOT) ... is ??
DJI do not provide comprehensive user maintenance guides for good reason ... service business.

I have provided an answer that myself and others have used. I have many thank-you's for this .... but its up to the individual to decide ... $15 replace motor .... or a drop pf lub ....... ignore it .... Not my problem.

Nigel

Also, there is nothing wrong with a slightly noisy bearing, or one that is slightly nosier than the others, the way they work means that there will be some noise, some bearings have plastic cages to help keep them quiet but those are not the best bearings, and the quietest are often the ones that are too tight and might bind up when they get hot.

When it starts squeaking, or when you can feel that the motor shaft is loose is the time to replace it.  A bit of noise does not indicate that it is about to fail.

solentlife Posted at 2018-4-19 00:36
As I ORIGINALLY said...

It is not necessary to lub these motors in normal use and they should outlast usual owners use. But as I also said later - they are cheap BL motors - nothing special about them at all ... so replacement is cheap and cheerful.

I agree with you on this issue, I use very tiny ball bearings in the small devices I manufacture. They are all shielded bearings, and I do not lubricate them at all because they arrive from China more or less saturated with oil, which is sufficient. In my documentation for customers, I recommend they oil the bearings VERY SPARINGLY, about once every two years. But I am wary of this because the average customer has no idea what sparingly means. If I get an entire device come back for repair, I often find they are either dripping with oil or none at all. The problem most people have is that they do not use a good oil with a hypodermic applicator, so they have no mechanism to meter out the oil.

Why not follow the manufacturer's suggestion?

Geebax Posted at 2018-4-19 01:08
I agree with you on this issue, I use very tiny ball bearings in the small devices I manufacture. They are all shielded bearings, and I do not lubricate them at all because they arrive from China more or less saturated with oil, which is sufficient. In my documentation for customers, I recommend they oil the bearings VERY SPARINGLY, about once every two years. But I am wary of this because the average customer has no idea what sparingly means. If I get an entire device come back for repair, I often find they are either dripping with oil or none at all. The problem most people have is that they do not use a good oil with a hypodermic applicator, so they have no mechanism to meter out the oil.

Tks G....

Agreed - its really the amount of oil that is used ....

I use the pointed end of a toothpick to put a tiny drop ....

If I need to 'wash' a motors bearings ... then its the thin spout of the can - but even then its very small amount and 'blown / wiped' away once job done ..

Nigel

BobUnplugged Posted at 2018-4-19 02:44
Why not follow the manufacturer's suggestion?

Yes indeed ............

Please find where DJI specifically state anything about this ....

If it was a decided done deal by DJI - don't you think they would have posted here ? It is THEIR forum ...

The post earlier claiming DJI statement - sorry I ask for the actual info from DJI as I have searched and cannot find anything from them ...
Even so - DJI have too often provided conflicting advice on various items.

Nigel

The question was :

''Do the Phantom 4 motor bearings need oil?''

If we consider the wording and use of ''NEED'' ............ then the answer is NO. Because regular oiling as we do with a car etc. is not required.

If we change that wording to ''occasionally benefit from oil'' ............ then the answer is yes if used in dusty / sea-air / environments that can cause corrosion / abrasion etc.

Nigel

Mark ...

''An interesting video.  I'm still not quite sold though. ''

Many people similar ... way of the world and each to their own.

''First - I just don't see a problem.  If we had a problem with motor bearings failing and quads dropping out of the sky, we'd be looking for a solution.  But where's the problem?  Who has had their quad drop due to bad bearings?  There must be somebody out there in this world who can say this has happened to him. ''

Valid point .... I also cannot remember post about failed bearing ... but there are posts on various forums about motors stopping / failing in flight ... who knows why ?

''How come DJI doesn't recommend lubricating their motors?  In fact, when asked, their representatives tell us to do the opposite.  They tell us NOT to lubricate the motor bearings.  Why would this be? ''

Like many things DJI does not advise anything ! Even when they do - its often conflicting info between even their own tech's !!  I would also like to see where DJI specifically state NOT to lub the bearings ... as you post it in a specific deliberate instruction ..

''This vid was done over three years ago.  Surely there is a vid somewhere demonstrating the lubricating process on a DJI motor.  Where is it?''  

Why ? BL motors are BL motors ... nothing special about DJI motors except they are bit short on wiring to allow clear lift out from mount.

''Banggood.. aren't they the guys who make those aftermarket batteries that fail mid-flight?  The going joke was, if you use a Banggood battery, your AC will BANG GOOD!  Not sure if I want to put their oil on my motor bearings.''

Arrrr interesting ..... because in fact the video is made by one of the leading GURU's of the RC world ... Xjet / RC Model Reviews - who has no connection to any product he reviews ... he does get revenue from his Youtube Monetisation - before anyone starts on that. All products he reviews are BOUGHT by him - if any is donated - he makes plain about the fact and that he will not sway in his judgement.
Second - you seem to ignore the fact its TAROT product - TAROT is a respected name in RC Heli world, their products are of good quality and well received by RC flyers. BG are only resellers of a known TAROT product.

''Maybe the guys at Banggood are smarter than the DJI engineers and we should dismiss DJI as a clown act and embrace Banggood, their products and their wisdom.  Maybe that's it.  

Thanks for posting''

I can only repeat that its an RC Model Reviews video that someone has uploaded to Banggood .... like many videos they have - are provided by others - not BG ... just because BG slaps a BG ending on is from the upload ... I have various vids on BG that have had it done ...
The good visual part though is the three bearings sitting on the mat ... guess which one resembles our DJI ones ?? It is certainly not the outer ones !!

Nigel

I guess the simple answer to your question is no, you don’t need to lube bearings. These quads haven’t been around long enough to pin point any weak links, I do know that the compass board are fairly fragile and some models are prone to stress cracks but bearings wearing out? No......P.S. I’m sure someone will correct me<

Nigel_ Posted at 2018-4-18 23:26
I would expect the bearings to have a bit of factory installed grease to lubricate them and keep the dust out.  Pouring oil into them, especially oil designed for cleaning like sewing machine oil, may over time remove the grease  and then allow the bearings to dry out and dust to get in.  So if you are going to oil them, you need to do it regularly, after every flight, like with a sewing machine or steam engine wheel bearing, if you don't oil them then you can replace the bearing when it gets noisy like a modern car wheel bearing which is also packed with grease for life.  Given that there is no access to the bearings without disassembly, or any oil hole provided, oiling every flight is not practical and was obviously not intended when the aircraft was designed.

If I had a noisy motor bearing then I would try disassembling it and try putting some extra grease in, maybe the factory didn't put enough, not oil that will dry up after a bit of use.  Or alternatively just replace the motor which is probably the better option.

I couldn't agree more Nigel, a maintenance sheet would be amazing. If DJI don't want inexperienced people opening their birds up, I would also happily get certified by DJI

Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-4-18 13:28
An interesting video.  I'm still not quite sold though.  

First - I just don't see a problem.  If we had a problem with motor bearings failing and quads dropping out of the sky, we'd be looking for a solution.  But where's the problem?  Who has had their quad drop due to bad bearings?  There must be somebody out there in this world who can say this has happened to him.  

Banggood.. aren't they the guys who make those aftermarket batteries that fail mid-flight?  
Banggood don't make anything.
They are an online marketplace that sells all kinds of cheap stuff from a large number of different manufacturers.

solentlife Posted at 2018-4-19 05:16
... because in fact the video is made by one of the leading GURU's of the RC world ... Xjet / RC Model Reviews - who has no connection to any product he reviews ... he does get revenue from his Youtube Monetisation - before anyone starts on that. All products he reviews are BOUGHT by him - if any is donated - he makes plain about the fact and that he will not sway in his judgement.
Second - you seem to ignore the fact its TAROT product - TAROT is a respected name in RC Heli world, their products are of good quality and well received by RC flyers.

Then let me ask you this...

If this guy is so good, how come you waited three years to show us his vid?  Why did somebody else have to come in and post the vid rather than you?  After all, you've been promoting DJI motor bearing maintenance for quite some time.  

Also, how come you use a toothpick when your hero here uses a hypodermic?  

Just curious.

''Then let me ask you this...''

OK ... no prob ...  its supposed to be a forum for debate ...

''If this guy is so good, how come you waited three years to show us his vid?  Why did somebody else have to come in and post the vid rather than you?  After all, you've been promoting DJI motor bearing maintenance for quite some time.''

Bruce is very good - maybe you should check out his youtube channel ? ME waiting 3 years ? Why didn't I post the video ? For what ? I have posted my reasons and method for the job - its up to others to decide if they wish to believe or not. Because someone else posted the video ... I can ask you why you did not post videos we see on other threads ...
Yes I do promote lub'g motors when I believe they can benefit from it. Note - I am being general here and NOT specific to DJI.... who use Brushless Motors similar to many other models. If you read my posts correctly - you will see that I do not advise willy nilly to lub. I qualify when and why. I also correct the mistaken identification of bearing type in our DJI's.

''Also, how come you use a toothpick when your hero here uses a hypodermic?''  

Simple answer ... the toothpick being a point carries a tiny drop .... a hypo delivers what is pushed out and is easily too much. The hypo is better used on a more accessible bearing than we have on the DJI where the motor leads are short and you cannot lift motor clear to access.

As to being silly and calling him my 'hero' - consider this : Xjet / RC Model Reviews has a huge following and is widely respected in the RC community. He puts his own time and money into his reviews. Instead of apparently mocking him as your post implies - why not check out his channel and see why he is so respected. He's not my 'Hero' ... I just respect and accept he has very good knowledge of RC.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCahqHsTaADV8MMmj2D5i1Vw

or his older site which has been quiet as he outputs more via his YT channel now .. but its still useful site :

http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/

''Just curious.''

Fine ... curious can lead to two results : Killing the cat or learning something ....

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2018-4-19 02:54
Yes indeed ............

Please find where DJI specifically state anything about this ....

That was kind of my point.  There is NOWHERE that DJI suggests oiling anything.  If they suggested it, they would have suggested it.  In the manual, online or elsewhere.

I would be among the ones that say not to add any oil to the bearings. Bearings is, unless placed down i a oil bath supposed to be packed full with grease and then sealed or shielded, in that way dirt going past the shielding would just stick to the outside of the grease while the balls/rollers live a protected life rolling around inside the grease.
By adding oil, particular a little amount would make dust and dirt stick to it making out an effective grinding compound eating it all up from the inside.

BobUnplugged Posted at 2018-4-24 03:57
That was kind of my point.  There is NOWHERE that DJI suggests oiling anything.  If they suggested it, they would have suggested it.  In the manual, online or elsewhere.

Not true, there a a whole raft of things that DJI do not mention in the manual, all that proves is that they are awful at writing manuals. ANY ball bearing, open, shielded or sealed needs periodic lubrication, anyone who says it does not does not have a clue about mechanics. The trick is knowing how to do it and doing it sparingly.

I got one motor that has a little more friction than the other motors when I move it back and forth with my middle finger and thumb.  It seems a little stiff.  I wonder why?  I wonder if it's due to bearing friction due to lack of oil/grease?  The Phantom flies fine and there's no noise when it's running.  But still - there's some resistance there when idle.  After my next flight, I will take its temp with my Breaking Bad laser temp gauge I have and see if it's running a little warm.  If so, just for fun, I will order some drone motor bearing grease and attempt to add some lube to the inner and outer races of the motor bearings to see if anything changes.  I will report back to this thread.  

https://drone.parts/products/mot ... EAkYASABEgJt6fD_BwE

Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-4-24 16:00
I got one motor that has a little more friction than the other motors when I move it back and forth with my middle finger and thumb.  It seems a little stiff.  I wonder why?  I wonder if it's due to bearing friction due to lack of oil/grease?  The Phantom flies fine and there's no noise when it's running.  But still - there's some resistance there when idle.  After my next flight, I will take its temp with my Breaking Bad laser temp gauge I have and see if it's running a little warm.  If so, just for fun, I will order some drone motor bearing grease and attempt to add some lube to the inner and outer races of the motor bearings to see if anything changes.  I will report back to this thread.  

https://drone.parts/products/mot ... EAkYASABEgJt6fD_BwE

If you give the motor a spin using your fingers, with the prop fitted, does it stop much quicker than the others?

If there is not much difference then it is probably just that the bearing is a little tighter than the others and there is nothing wrong.  You don't want the bearings too loose, or to tight, but there is an infinite range in-between that are all OK and which will make little difference once the motor is moving.  If the motor gets noticeably hotter than the others then there is a problem.  If it is too tight then lubrication is not the answer.