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DroneSpeed
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2016-3-28
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minim
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  123#
Donnie Posted at 2016-3-28 17:53
Drone Speed, You seem like a very smart individual , you made your point  regarding the range of t ...

This is the main problem. Most people do not have range issues with the Phantom 4. More and more videos of people with knowledge are popping up showing great range and no problems.

The common thing about those having issues with the range is that there is not much info provided along with videos and examples. The ones flying out the advertised range and further say how the hold their radio, what modes, how to push it, look for disturbance before takeoff, understand how radio transmissions work and so on. Again not saying that range is not a issue but I do not have issues and a lot of other people also don't have issues with it. A VERY common thing to see in here tho is people screaming very loud about issues and when everything is chopped down it stops at lack of knowledge, care to read the manual and things like that. I hope those with issues are able to track down what is causing it and I do hope they are man enough to post here if it was simple user errors causing it.
2016-3-28
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  124#
dacofty Posted at 2016-3-28 22:56
my P3A easliy gets 15000 plus feet.

Okay and that's in the place you fly. Didfferent from where I fly.
2016-3-28
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  125#
nickmedici@bell Posted at 2016-3-28 12:58
Okay and that's in the place you fly. Didfferent from where I fly.

Yes im in more of an open farm type land.
2016-3-28
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microcyb
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  126#
DJI-Ken Posted at 2016-3-27 14:47
The proper antenna orientation will also help.
https://youtu.be/P7M9JtfVwQE

Oh Gawd NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
You beat me to that reply with yours.  :@



2016-3-28
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Donnie
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  127#
DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-28 11:07
Hey Donnie- I have no experience with the Inspire at all. In looking at the forums, they do not se ...

I get it, that's cool and you may be right.  I think you will gain more support for your cause if you help with other issues other than just Rangegate.  If you are a one trick pony, Pilots on the forum will bore of the tirade.

-donnie  
2016-3-28
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  128#
microcyb Posted at 2016-3-28 19:45
Oh Gawd NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
You beat me to that reply with yours.

The do mention it when talking about flying above your head but it's also important when flying straight ahead.. Angle of the antennas of the phantom 4 will be at a different angle when flying ahead than when it's hoovering. This angle is not ideal and should be reduced as much as possible (going slower) when at long range to get better reception of the sent video signals. The antennas work in the same way on both the remote and the drone.
2016-3-28
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  129#
minim Posted at 2016-3-28 14:11
The do mention it when talking about flying above your head but it's also important when flying st ...

True, To solve that whole antenna issue, I use all panel antennas now.  They produce the signals vertically and horizonal so even straight above, I do not get any concern about losing the RC or FPV.
I really think this #RANGEGATE issue boils down to channel selection and low dBi stock antennas but without a P4 myself, I cannot confirm nor deny that theory.

2016-3-28
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microcyb
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  130#
DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-28 12:08
A few people on some of the other forums seem to be discussing a class action. One guy who runs a 40 ...

Ship me your bird, let me modify it, and problem fixed.

Also, have you tried another channel yet???  
2016-3-28
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  131#
pgrover516 Posted at 2016-3-28 09:31
Thanks again!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00R1PA9EO
Frequency Range: 2.4 GHz / 5 GHz
Gain: 8 dBi @ 2.4GHz 10dBi @ 5GHz
Connector: RP-SMA Plug (Male)
Dimension: 167.3 x 66 x 18mm

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VSQDTNK
5.8G high gain directional panel antenna;
Resistance: 50ohm;
14dB antenna gain;
The antenna weight 46g;
Polarization mode right polarized antenna;


http://www.amazon.com/NEEWER%C2% ... tenna/dp/B00E37BPKA


Once you do a base change to the controller to allow for RP-SMA you can try out any antennas out there (sad this is not by default but easy to do yourself).
http://www.amazon.com/U-FL-RP-SM ... Cable/dp/B005UWD0EG

Mix and match till you get that just the right flight you need.

In short, you do not need to fork out hundreds of dollars to mod your controller.
2016-3-28
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  132#
DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-28 12:08
A few people on some of the other forums seem to be discussing a class action. One guy who runs a 40 ...

So he says, don't believe anything you here on the Internet. Everybody's a keyboard warrior with a line of sh*! A mile long.
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  133#
R&L Aerial  Posted at 2016-3-28 14:33
So he says, don't believe anything you here on the Internet. Everybody's a keyboard warrior with a ...


Yea, good luck going against an international company located in the Peoples Republic of China.  That suit would take a decade between the United States and China.

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  134#
A class action suit against a Chinese company.   Hmmmmmmmmm..... CA suits don't do anything but enrich the lawyers involved.  Enjoy your 12$ check 6 years down the road #WHINEGATE, Although you might need it when your Apple store shift manager job goes up in smoke!
2016-3-28
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  135#
Flew today in my neighborhood. I launched out across a lake and continued into a somewhat urban area with presumably a decent amount of interference. Positioned antennas properly, decided to actually choose auto for my transmission channel, and took off. I got over 12,000 feet (2.25 miles) before my battery decided to tell me that it was time to head home. My fault though, as I did a bit of flying around and picture taking just prior to range testing. I'm relatively new to the P4 (who isn't) and fairly new to flying in general. I think this thing has some mad skills and don't see any issues with the range.
2016-3-28
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  136#
microcyb Posted at 2016-3-28 20:20
True, To solve that whole antenna issue, I use all panel antennas now.  They produce the signals ve ...

Also remember that the higher the gain the narrower the antennas radiation pattern are. The input to the antenna system is the same so the only thing you are doing with a increased antenna gain is narrowing down the radiation pattern. The gain is compared to a dipole antenna or a ideal antenna (isotropic antenna) depending on the manufacturer and the higher it is the harder it is going to be to aim the controller correctly but when you do it will be a lot better.

Keep in mind that when changing to higher gain antennas you are breaking the laws (at least in my country) since ERP will be to high compared to the allowed ERP on this band. I suspect that FCC might have the same rules but that would just be guessing.  
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  137#
And as posted in another thread:
Can someone with range problems provide some more info? I'm more curious on these things:
-A picture of how you hold your transmitter and antennas from the side. Do you think about how you aim them?
-A picture of the are you are flying in and the best would be a video showing from start to end
-What mode was used?
-Did you push it beyond the low signal warnings? I can't find the reference here but in auto mode it was told that P4 defaults to a higher bitrate and that will cause a warning earlier since signals needs to be       better. To change channel and or bitrate you need to force warnings and you will get dropouts.
-Do you fly in sport mode? If so the dipoles can be almost in a dead zone when angle of attack is big on the copter. When you get a warning try to switch to P-mode with obstacle off and see if it improves. It does with me. If you get it still try P-mode with obstacle on and it should be even better (ofc lower speed tho). P3P and lower phantom models  do not have the angle of attack that P4 has in sport mode.
-Not all areas are ideal to push ranges. I can have range if I fly in one direction from my house but if I fly another where a cell phone tower is placed 2km out I get into problems soon. I also get problems at that place with regular 1.2Ghz/2.4/5.8 analog video transmission and ezuhf/tbs crossfire long range radio systems.
-Be aware of that the further out you go the higher altitude is needed to keep "radio-los" or be within the best zone for radio transmission from dipole antennas.

I'm sorry for the low quality but I didn't want to spend any time on it since I just wanted to explain the basics of the angle of the phantom and the controller. The radiation pattern on a dipole is shown on the photo below borrowed from rc groups. This is physics and can only be altered by changing the antenna type and constructions but there is always a sacrifice to make. By making the radiation pattern more directional with for example a yagi antenna the gain is a lot higher (the cones will become longer and smaller) and you get more range but it's also a lot smaller pattern and it will require a lot higher accuracy when pointing it at the object. As far as I know DJI has used regular dipoles in our phantoms and the pattern is approx as illustrated here. As you can see with a angle on the phantom you are coming more and more into the "deadzone" of the radiation pattern. This will also increase with height and range from homepoint. For a best possible signal you want to angle the phantom as little as possible, keep the antennas correctly on the transmitter and if possible be high up from ground with the transmitter as well. There is also freznel zone to be kept in mind (read more in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_zone ). On the image below Imagine  the phantom at horizontal and with the red "cones" also tillted horizontal then recepion would be a lot better.


Image borrowed from rcgroups. this shows the radiation pattern from a dipole antenna. As you can see on top of the antenna it's almost completely dead. When having the phantom at a big angle heading away from you you will be in a deadzone  from the video transmitter if you are up to high.



Disclaimer. I am no expert in this so feel free to correct me of any mistakes here. I've been flying long range RC planes for a while and I'm a A-licensed radio amateur so issues like this catch my interest quick and it would be great if anyone with range issues reported back if any of this made sense and improved the range for them.
2016-3-28
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  138#
minim Posted at 2016-3-28 14:57
Also remember that the higher the gain the narrower the antennas radiation pattern are. The input  ...

OMG, yes!
Someone else gets it! I use the wonderful GPS and always point towards my bird and Tada!

So far have not broke any FCC regulations, but it is sooo tempting to crank up the power
2016-3-28
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microcyb
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  139#
minim Posted at 2016-3-28 14:59
And as posted in another thread:
Can someone with range problems provide some more info? I'm more c ...

That was spot on questions and explanation. {:3_52:}

I have the exact same results with my tests on a Phantom 3 Standard (after my mods).
I purposely fly towards areas with high out put cell towers (6 miles away) and my range drops to 5500 feet in distance at 300 feet attitude, but if I go the opposite direction, I reach a solid 7500 feet in distance.

Remote areas, so far can reach 8500 feet is distance, so I really am betting ( without a P4 myself), the channel and antenna is the cause of the problems.
Meaning both FPV and RC are solid and able to fly with no signal drops or RTH.

I am sure DJI test areas were not a as congested with so many various signals bouncing around (WiFi, cell, etc), plus the fact that many homes are now buying high gain dual band wireless routers that also add to the interference floating around.

It is a invisible traffic jam in the skies with radio frequencies bouncing all over the place.
2016-3-28
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  140#
It might be "dumb" questions and suggestions but in the "DJI Phantom 4 User Group (MFD)" facebook group now there was a guy complaining about only 1500ft range on it and a few minutes later he added some info about trees in front of him and put up a picture of a forrest with 50feet trees right like 100feet from where he was flying.  It might be simple basics to some but things like that is going to ruin your range no matter if it's a phantom 3 or a phantom 4 and some people doesn't know this. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't hurt to check if you are doing something wrong before making a lot of noise about it.
2016-3-28
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microcyb
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  141#
minim Posted at 2016-3-28 15:35
It might be "dumb" questions and suggestions but in the "DJI Phantom 4 User Group (MFD)" facebook gr ...

Once again, spot on.  
2016-3-28
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R&L Aerial
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  142#
I live in the trees so to speak and I normally fly from the same spot,  I fly toward the same farm at same altitude to test distances. Ok with that said here are my last results, inspire 1 2800ft, phantom 3, 2600 feet, phantom 4, 2200 feet before signal loss. I'm not saying the phantom 4 has any issues but I get similar results every time. I went to the lake Sunday night with the phantom 4 and  out in the open I was out over 8000 feet with the p4 before I turned around but still had full bars. Maybe there's something new on the p4 that makes it a little more susceptible to interference than the others but the range is still pretty impressive.
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  143#
DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-29 00:08
A few people on some of the other forums seem to be discussing a class action. One guy who runs a 40 ...

There is no way in hell an attorney in the U.S. is going to wast time on this! Too much money here where they are. If he does he better have some deep pockets!
2016-3-28
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  144#
minim Posted at 2016-3-29 02:59
And as posted in another thread:
Can someone with range problems provide some more info? I'm more c ...

Good job! Nice post
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  145#
Yet another range test, same place as a couple hours ago. I am happy to say that I now got over 17,200 feet out of my P4. This is over the advertised distance of 3.1 miles in FCC mode. So, #rangegate? Not so much.

Here is my HealthyDrones.com link for you guys to view my flight data.   http://healthydrones.com/main?share=gJJbEs
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  146#
R&L Aerial  Posted at 2016-3-28 22:33
I live in the trees so to speak and I normally fly from the same spot,  I fly toward the same farm a ...

did you push beyond warning? I can't find the statement but it's said that the P4 runs with higher bitrate by default than the others so you need to push through one drop of video before it lowers bitrate and checks for a channel with less disturbance before you can get full range.
2016-3-28
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  147#
medicdanderson Posted at 2016-3-28 22:52
Yet another range test, same place as a couple hours ago. I am happy to say that I now got over 17,2 ...

My thought exactly. More and more posts like yours are starting to show up and more and more of the guys with problems figured out that the problem they had could be explained with either physical things like antenna placement or RF interference. There could ofcourse be defective units but I'm not to convinced about this so called "rangegate" yet ^^
2016-3-28
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  149#
pgrover516 Posted at 2016-3-28 17:16
Sweet, Thanks! researching this will keep me busy for a while, so do you change the antenna on the ...

The controller itself, you do not need to mess with the bird itself unless you have the confidence to do so.
It really just boils down to increasing the pattern and the direction of the signal instead of letting it go all wild west on you.  So you can do the mod cheap or expensive.

Hence why a lot of people say the DIY windsurfing help a lot since you are deflecting wasted signals towards your bird.  

Yea, offered DroneSpeed some ideas, but never a response.  For me, stripping down something like this is just fun and easy only because I am a computer scientist but would not suggest others do it until they feel confident doing so.
2016-3-28
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  150#
DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-25 15:21
Just got a message from Tony at FPVLR. He says his customers are reporting that they get "noticeably ...

Why wouldn't a fella' who makes sells range extenders say that owners are getting limited range?

I think that we're starting to see the connection.......
2016-3-28
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  152#
DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-29 09:03
I think he was saying that his FPVLR mods on P4s were getting less range than on P3s and that is w ...

Most of the antenna mods are designed by people who don't have the faintest clue about RF antenna design. You can be just millimetres out with some factors in antenna design and reduce the effect of the antenna, not enhance it.
2016-3-28
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  154#
minim Posted at 2016-3-28 17:01
did you push beyond warning? I can't find the statement but it's said that the P4 runs with higher ...

Yes, at the distances I indicated I had lost signal and turned aroun.
2016-3-28
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  156#
DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-29 00:37
True. But even in unmodded form, this appears real. And no offense, but DJI doesn't exactly have t ...

State of the art antennas :p hehe Please read up a bit in the subject before commenting.
They do not design it anymore "state of the art" for many reasons. The simplest being that they cannot have a higher ERP and therefore by using what you call state of the art would only make it harder to aim and even harder to explain to customers how to use their equipment. A higher gain antenna equals a antenna that is harder to pinpoint in the direction that is needed. There is NO, absolutely NO WAY of making a higher gain antenna without sacrificing the angle with high gain it has to explain this easy. This is physics and it's been like this for like the last 100years of antenna technology.
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  157#
DroneSpeed Posted at 2016-3-28 11:07
Hey Donnie- I have no experience with the Inspire at all. In looking at the forums, they do not se ...

Just because you consider residential and highly populated areas filled with RF interference a normal flying environment doesn't make it true, and it certainly doesn't confirm your illogical conspiracies.
2016-3-30
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  158#
Hows that class action coming?{:2_34:}
2016-3-30
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  159#
I find it kinda funny that my post where I try to actually help people understand how it works and the limitations are completely overlooked by those that complain the worst This far I've seen a lot of people succeed in getting long range from their phantom 4 and the common thing when people ask how it's done is that  they do all the right things to max radio range. I'm really starting to doubt this whole range problem.

Another big observation coming from the DIY world (no offence to anyone) is that in DJI forums and facebook groups it's the common thing to shoot DJI first and never look for own errors or try to solve the problem. It's straight back to apple store or wherever it was bought and claim a new one. When the third one doesn't work they complain on the forums and on the fourth one they actually open the owners manual and read the procedure on howto operate the power button to turn the drone on This is popping up on every silly little thing so that it does on long range that is actually a bit complicated isn't a big surprise.   
2016-3-30
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  160#
ryan209 Posted at 2016-3-26 02:55
So You are really quiet about the fact that the most recent P3P filing from 2015 actually reflects L ...


"From Franks Post:
By the way, latest 2015 P3P FCC approval and P4.

https://fccid.io/SS3-WM3231510
Phantom 3 professional
0.52W
-------------------------------------------------
https://fccid.io/SS3-WM3301512
Phantom 4
0.598W"

SS3-WM3301512 is not the proper FCC ID for the P4.  The ID on my P4 Drone is  2AHAY-WM33011601 The FCC reports (page 29) says the highest conducted power output is on channel 13 - 24.83 dBm or .304 Watt  


From the FCC report SS3-WM3231503 (page 28) the highest conducted power output from the P3 is also channel 13 - 25.74 dBm or .427 Watt.  The important fact with all of these numbers is that by comparison there is just under 1 dB difference in power output between the two drones which translates to little difference in performance.
2016-3-30
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