Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-4 08:03
will there be also somebody from the other side, just to be fair?

DJI has every right to defend itself.  But considering there has been no apology from them I expect they won't be interested.  I'm told it could be next month before anything airs due to post editing and what not.  I'm also hearing rumors of failures over the weekend during search and rescue - that's not even funny.  I'm working to confirm that now.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-7-2 08:54
NFZ are not made by dji, manned aircraft pilots are not allowed fly in NFZ without permission what makes you think you can, dji alone does not decide where NFZ are.

If an aircraft pilot flys into NFZ he can be contacted ATC and asked to leave the area land or in the case of military NFZ be blown out of the sky.

I think you are missing the point, which is that the manufacturers of products do not ENFORCE limits on how you use their products, that is up to local communities in which they are used. Instead of cars think of guns (way more devastating than a UAV!), the manufacturers sell them into various jurisdictions which then enforce their use under certain conditions, open carry, concealed carry, magazine limits etc. It is then up to the end user to comply or face the consequences. Now think of DJI, as you mention, the NFZ's, guidelines etc. are already in place in most countries. Why should they now feel it is their duty to enforce those rules country by country when gun manufacturers (and others) don't? Seems like over reach to me when we have already signed T&C's which limit DJI's liability.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-7-2 08:19
So if FAA tell dji they need to put some control on there drones flying in NFZ , should dji tell them no and force governments to step in and enforce the exact same thing with NFZ rules on RC pilots. Sometimes be careful what you wish for as it might come true.

The reality is all pilots need permission to fly in NFZ including pilots of manned aircraft, pilots of manned aircraft are highly trained in there rules laws and regulations. If a pilot flying an aircraft in a NFZ he can be contacted by ATC and removed asked to land or in the case of flying over military airspace can be taken out of the sky .

My Government has the absolute right and obligation to put limits (or not) around how we act in our communities, DJI does not!

Officewallah Posted at 2017-7-4 09:22
I think you are missing the point, which is that the manufacturers of products do not ENFORCE limits on how you use their products, that is up to local communities in which they are used. Instead of cars think of guns (way more devastating than a UAV!), the manufacturers sell them into various jurisdictions which then enforce their use under certain conditions, open carry, concealed carry, magazine limits etc. It is then up to the end user to comply or face the consequences. Now think of DJI, as you mention, the NFZ's, guidelines etc. are already in place in most countries. Why should they now feel it is their duty to enforce those rules country by country when gun manufacturers (and others) don't? Seems like over reach to me when we have already signed T&C's which limit DJI's liability.

The NFZ and mandatory logon are already taking a toll on sales.  DJI is going to cut its own throat.  I'm OK with the NFZ but as information only.  DJI is already proving it can't manage the database properly.  The failed infrastructure thing over this past weekend with no one noticing until Monday morning is unacceptable.  

Officewallah Posted at 2017-7-4 09:37
My Government has the absolute right and obligation to put limits (or not) around how we act in our communities, DJI does not!

Except if they have permission.

KEDDK Posted at 2017-7-4 08:32
I know, i live a little NW of Højby and have almost 3 KM to the water both against NE and SW, so i am far from the Greenzones, the closest NFZ from me is the Amber Circle at Sonnerup Skov above Lumsås. :-)

Hej B.R.KEDDK, This is from EK Chart ENR-6 ANC Denmark, aka Aeronautical chart ICAO ANC 1:500000 Denmark edition 38, effective 31 march 1916. The areas bordered by a green dotted line. the same green-bordered areas were also in the previous edition.  However, I agree that DJI should clean up a bit their Geo enforcement... They could be a really valuable tool, if properly tuned.
mvh,
Antonio

Officewallah Posted at 2017-7-4 09:22
I think you are missing the point, which is that the manufacturers of products do not ENFORCE limits on how you use their products, that is up to local communities in which they are used. Instead of cars think of guns (way more devastating than a UAV!), the manufacturers sell them into various jurisdictions which then enforce their use under certain conditions, open carry, concealed carry, magazine limits etc. It is then up to the end user to comply or face the consequences. Now think of DJI, as you mention, the NFZ's, guidelines etc. are already in place in most countries. Why should they now feel it is their duty to enforce those rules country by country when gun manufacturers (and others) don't? Seems like over reach to me when we have already signed T&C's which limit DJI's liability.

I can only tell you I sat down at a meeting with EASA dji were present and these matters were discussed regarding new rules and regulations regarding SUA rules and regulations for Europe. If you think dji are not part of discussion with FAA regarding safety of their aircraft you might be wrong.

I'm not a US citizen so your gun laws are of no interest to me, so I won't  be commenting. But I'm sure if any manufacturer was breaking American laws then that's up to your police to sort out, I don't see anything happening yet, so maybe take it up with your local politicians.

Officewallah Posted at 2017-7-4 09:37
My Government has the absolute right and obligation to put limits (or not) around how we act in our communities, DJI does not!

In other words,
"A well regulated Drone Militia, being necessary to the amusement of a free pilot, the right of the people to keep and fly drones without NoFlyZones, shall not be infringed by DJI" ...

Officewallah Posted at 2017-7-4 09:22
I think you are missing the point, which is that the manufacturers of products do not ENFORCE limits on how you use their products, that is up to local communities in which they are used. Instead of cars think of guns (way more devastating than a UAV!), the manufacturers sell them into various jurisdictions which then enforce their use under certain conditions, open carry, concealed carry, magazine limits etc. It is then up to the end user to comply or face the consequences. Now think of DJI, as you mention, the NFZ's, guidelines etc. are already in place in most countries. Why should they now feel it is their duty to enforce those rules country by country when gun manufacturers (and others) don't? Seems like over reach to me when we have already signed T&C's which limit DJI's liability.

Just think how much the NRA is spending lobbying... and probably the car industry too.

The Roach Posted at 2017-7-4 08:33
DJI has every right to defend itself.  But considering there has been no apology from them I expect they won't be interested.  I'm told it could be next month before anything airs due to post editing and what not.  I'm also hearing rumors of failures over the weekend during search and rescue - that's not even funny.  I'm working to confirm that now.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/drones/a21503/drones-wildfires/

https://www.digitaltrends.com/co ... rone-over-wildfire/

https://www.cnet.com/news/drones ... lifornia-wildfires/

EU and EU countries are working towards a common regulation for EU member states. DJI surely have been in talk in these matters. EU and countries certainly to listen to what DJI does as they are a big drone manufacturer. Personally I think we need regulations so our airspace is safe, both for drones as well as for small aircraft, paragliders and for passenger traffic.

However, it's the countries and EU, FFA and the likes that make the rules and regulations. A private drone company don't make the laws. As it is now, DJI wants to sales pitch their solutions to the countries around their world, making it the total "solution" for airspace safety, for hindering drones close to airports etc. We DJI drone owners have become the guinea pigs in this sales pitch.

I'm all for safety, I've seen drone pilots flying crazily over my citys bus station. I was shocked. But a private moneymaking company should not decide where I can fly and when I can fly. That is up to my country and its laws and regulations.

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-4 10:09
Hej B.R.KEDDK, This is from EK Chart ENR-6 ANC Denmark, aka Aeronautical chart ICAO ANC 1:500000 Denmark edition 38, effective 31 march 1916. The areas bordered by a green dotted line. the same green-bordered areas were also in the previous edition.  However, I agree that DJI should clean up a bit their Geo enforcement... They could be a really valuable tool, if properly tuned.
mvh,
Antonio

Thx Antonio76

This further confirm that it should not be needed for me to do some extra confirmations before i can take off.
Strange thing is we often/daily have some helicopter flying over up here, some postal delivery to one of the islands i have been told. I am sure it often is below the 1000 feet (305m) but that is hard to tell.

Do you have a link for this map? - was wondering what the blue areas is about.

Best Regards, KEDDK

KEDDK Posted at 2017-7-4 10:35
Thx Antonio76

This further confirm that it should not be needed for me to do some extra confirmations before i can take off.

When you reer to the blue areas you mean those in the Naviair map? They are sensible locations, like industries with dangerous stuff, prisons, military locations etc... The ICAO Chart I downloaded  some time ago, will find the link and post it for you
the areas with a blue border in the ICAO Chart are:

KEDDK Posted at 2017-7-4 10:35
Thx Antonio76

This further confirm that it should not be needed for me to do some extra confirmations before i can take off.

here is the link:
https://naviair-public.sharepoin ... ame&SortDir=Asc
the map is the second one, 23.1 Mb, andyou may want to download the third one too (the other side of the map), just 770 Kb.

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-4 10:24
In other words,
"A well regulated Drone Militia, being necessary to the amusement of a free pilot, the right of the people to keep and fly drones without NoFlyZones, shall not be infringed by DJI" ...

lol -great!

Rob W Posted at 2017-7-4 10:31
EU and EU countries are working towards a common regulation for EU member states. DJI surely have been in talk in these matters. EU and countries certainly to listen to what DJI does as they are a big drone manufacturer. Personally I think we need regulations so our airspace is safe, both for drones as well as for small aircraft, paragliders and for passenger traffic.

However, it's the countries and EU, FFA and the likes that make the rules and regulations. A private drone company don't make the laws. As it is now, DJI wants to sales pitch their solutions to the countries around their world, making it the total "solution" for airspace safety, for hindering drones close to airports etc. We DJI drone owners have become the guinea pigs in this sales pitch.

Less we forget the RC industry has been around since the 1930s.  Law are in place and everything was working fine.  Now DJI want's to stick its nose in rather than allowing local law enforcement to do its work.  I at least want to fly my drone WHEN I want and after this weekend we know even that won't always be possible.  I'm no longer purchasing DJI.  Too much good competition to be married to DJI.  Gesture control isn't new, others have it.  Visual positioning isn't a DJI thing, others have it.  A 20mp camera isn't DJI exclusive.  This giant will fall, I'm not sticking around to watch.  I have a hand sized $100 drone with 4K, follow-me and vision positioning.  The storm is coming for DJI.   Really hope they wake up soon as they do have a great product - when you can use it.  

As much as I like my P4, after reading a few posts like this regarding forced updates etc. I am glad I did not sell all my home built quadcopters just yet. My multicopters with naza & wii based FC's are easy to fly, have the same or longer range and batteries are a lot cheaper, but getting all the FPV components, gimbals etc. working together is just a lot more work than just using the P4 is.  However, I NEVER have to worry about updates or being stuck somewhere unable to take off because I forgot to update and/or login before I left home, like I have a couple of times with my P4.

I've been in the aerial photography/video hobby since well before the time of DJI & other ready to fly drones. When it was just serious RC hobbyists doing this the issues with NFZ's etc were not issues - because most serious hobbyists knew better than to fly close to airports, impede law enforcement, fly over crowds etc. As soon as I saw the Phantoms come out and people with zero previous RC experience could be flying semi competently out of the box in an hour or so - I knew there would be a lot of negatives to go with the positives of this.

The Phantom does so many things so much better and so much easier than my home built units. However as soon as I saw them being sold in camera stores & the BB's of the worlds I knew that meant a whole slew of new regulations would be coming down the line. Some by necessity and some by zealous gov't bureaucrats eager to justify their existence. With thousands of inexperienced people now flying RC aircraft all over the world, often in places where RC aircraft have never flown nor are meant to be flown in, I knew the status quo of the RC world was soon coming to an end.

This is where we are today.   

The Roach Posted at 2017-7-4 11:50
lol -great!

Absolutely. Now all is needed, somebody to slip it as an Executive Order on Donald's desk. It will be signed  without even reading it  

The Roach Posted at 2017-7-4 04:31
OK, so our local news team, 12 On My Side, has agreed to interview our local Phantom club, discuss the mandatory logon requirements, DJIs over all policy, the poor service and lack of communications.  Not going to go the lawyer route when a hit to stock price is more likely to get some attention.   Once the piece airs it will be spread via social media.  EVERYONE I talk to goes another direction when I talk to them about the mandatory logon.   I've moved on to other brands as many of you will as well if this keeps up.

Going to your local news is a stroke of genius.   That'll show DJI not to mess with you.

"a hit to stock price is more likely to get some attention" - except DJI are a privately held company so there's no stock price.

Or you could just get things in perspective and write of the loss of a couple of days flying as a glitch and move on.

guys...
i say again. my whole frustration is not about the noflyzones but the fact that the user is forced to update when DJI feels like and if not, your drone get locked down without warning!
it cant be right to anybody of us to spend thousand of dollars for equipment, plan travels, organize shootings ect. and when you finally arrive after months at the flying spot half around the world, DJI choose to make an update and lock down your whole system because you have no chance to update outside in middle of nowhere. without ANY information that this happen plus the confirmation of DJI staff that: "you can always fly your drone and just ignore the update so dont worry and make your travel"
{:4_154:}
that was cheap dirty lie, its wrong and unacceptable! and the fact that they STILL not say anything in this topic proofs it.

i was NOT talking about the idea that DJI try to prevent some idi**s fly for fun near an airport to see what happen. thats totally fine for me and i agree.
but they randomly shut down thousands of drones here in china for example just because some political holidays?! seriously? so i cant make some nice sunset photos over a lake in a park because 50km away there is a meeting with some high rank government guys? even the most hardcore DJI lovers must see that this is wrong.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-7-4 10:05
Except if they have permission.

Which they don't!

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-4 10:27
Just think how much the NRA is spending lobbying... and probably the car industry too.

I think "we the people" would have a problem even without the lobbying!!

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-7-4 10:12
I can only tell you I sat down at a meeting with EASA dji were present and these matters were discussed regarding new rules and regulations regarding SUA rules and regulations for Europe. If you think dji are not part of discussion with FAA regarding safety of their aircraft you might be wrong.

I'm not a US citizen so your gun laws are of no interest to me, so I won't  be commenting. But I'm sure if any manufacturer was breaking American laws then that's up to your police to sort out, I don't see anything happening yet, so maybe take it up with your local politicians.

Don't disagree, I would be shocked if DJI are not in talks with regulatory agencies. But until it is mandated on them by country laws to build this capability into their products so they can be sold (which it is currently not) then I don't see the need for them to interfere with products that they have already sold. I think the user community sees the same issue given current activity with the firmware. Remember Apple? they were eventually forced to provide unlocked products.

Officewallah Posted at 2017-7-5 09:06
Which they don't!

Why are you wasting your time on the forum here when you could be reporting this crime to law enforcement.
It might make more sense than all the hysteria around here.

Officewallah Posted at 2017-7-5 09:23
Don't disagree, I would be shocked if DJI are not in talks with regulatory agencies. But until it is mandated on them by country laws to build this capability into their products so they can be sold (which it is currently not) then I don't see the need for them to interfere with products that they have already sold. I think the user community sees the same issue given current activity with the firmware. Remember Apple? they were eventually forced to provide unlocked products.

Well you have America the leader of the free world, yet in the free world America has so many many more laws rules and regulations than any other democracy on the planet, so not really as free as one might think  maybe dji are trying to be ahead of the game. I'm sure it will get sorted.

could you stick silver foil on top of the drone and fly atti mode, might that get around it

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-7-5 09:36
Why are you wasting your time on the forum here when you could be reporting this crime to law enforcement.
It might make more sense than all the hysteria around here.

Hallmark, arrogance doesn't make you right. You have your thoughts and others have different ones, both are valid. The purpose of the forum is discussion, perhaps you are wasting your time if you are not open this concept and just want to promote your perspective and not be open to alternatives.

fans0f54eaf6 Posted at 2017-7-5 09:59
could you stick silver foil on top of the drone and fly atti mode, might that get around it

Maybe I need to stick silver foil on the top of my head, could be simpler!

Officewallah Posted at 2017-7-5 12:25
Hallmark, arrogance doesn't make you right. You have your thoughts and others have different ones, both are valid. The purpose of the forum is discussion, perhaps you are wasting your time if you are not open this concept and just want to promote your perspective and not be open to alternatives.

I'm quite open , but sometimes when your continually quoted , with others telling you something is against the law, then maybe you have to concede , I don't know what US law is, on this matter , you tell me one thing I have accepted this, you entered the debate quoting US law you won. I see no point in flogging a dead horse.
So I'm not to sure how you thought I thought I was right when you have proved me wrong.

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-4 11:03
here is the link:
https://naviair-public.sharepoint.com/?FolderCTID=0x0120003D7852328536024F994367E836D2F352&View=%7Becb30325-da47-46b8-b10e-1a1d5ee71d81%7D&RootFolder=%2FAIM%20Documents%2FAIP%20Danmark%2FAIP%20PART%202%20-%20EN%20ROUTE%20%28ENR%29%2FENR%206%20EN%20ROUTE%20CHARTS&SortField=LinkFilename&SortDir=Asc
the map is the second one, 23.1 Mb, andyou may want to download the third one too (the other side of the map), just 770 Kb.

Thanks again

It was the TMA/TIA lines i wondered about.

Right now i also wonder if we get more problems the 10th., anyone knows how to see the version of NFZ control running on the thing?
I don't like what i found, shorted by me to say:

"version":"1.9.20"
"release_note": "1.Updated No-Fly Zone Management."
"enforce_time":"2017-07-10T00:00:00+08:00"

Already, even in my own garden surrounded by cultivated fields, i get NFZ warnings even as shown above, there is no NFZ here. I really fear what happen after a new update.

Best Regards, KEDDK

I think I am building a APM or Pixhawk backup drone

a bit of black humor is all i got left for this...


yesterday night i was curious and fly (well i TRY fly) 2 full batteries.
failed! i got error messages all over the place. disconnects, noflyzone warnings, no image transmission bug, suddenly after land and take off again my flight was limited to 30 meter around me. i change battery and then can fly 500 meter far until the bugs took over and i almost lost my p4. after landing start again and got stucked at 30m again blablabla you name it. before theupdate everything was perfect. no errors. no transmission problems. i could fly out 2km without any problem same place

i can not trust my equipment anymore. i hope DJI will solve this big mess soon. so many customers raging...

hello crew, just wanna say thanks to all people who tried to help with my never ending dji nightmare over last months.
i was able to fix all my problems i had with DJI and my p4A in 1 evening without DJIs help and i am extremely satisfied now with a product which is finally working perfectly like it should and we customer pay for it.
no more updates, noflyzones for no reason and locked motors in the future. i will hardware deactivate the wifi inside my build in screen and enjoy the experience from now on.  have a nice evening. cheers

I just got back from a trip to the mountains where the exact same thing happened - bought a Mavic Pro Fly More kit in April for the 4th of July trip to the San Juans.  Flew it 2-3 times to check it out around home.  One last time fired up when packing for the trip.  Get to the mountains and it's locked.  Firmware updates, Geo updates, and NFZ errors in the middle of no-innernets nowhere.  Got back and the retailer agreed to take it back several months beyond the 30day return policy and give me a refund.  DJI drones are awesome - if you only intend to fly around your back yard or RC park "Wheee!  Look at it go!", but I already have a $60 toy drone from Fry's for that.  I'd never accept this from any of my DSLRs, bricking every time an update comes out.  As for NFZ, I was "nowhere" near one.  I say "nowhere" in quotes because it depends on how generous a margin DJI puts around NFZs.  If they have a 30mi buffer around every State Park, National Park, or Congressionally Designated Wilderness area out there, I imagine all the overlapping buffers would indeed blanket out an entire corner of a state.  But ... I was in legally flyable areas, so that's DJIs problem, not mine, anymore.

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-4 12:41
Absolutely. Now all is needed, somebody to slip it as an Executive Order on Donald's desk. It will be signed  without even reading it

You made me smile
But it might even be true… oh Trumpppp

We know that if ONE person does silly things flying we will be punished all...

ThaBigPerm Posted at 2017-7-11 08:20
I just got back from a trip to the mountains where the exact same thing happened - bought a Mavic Pro Fly More kit in April for the 4th of July trip to the San Juans.  Flew it 2-3 times to check it out around home.  One last time fired up when packing for the trip.  Get to the mountains and it's locked.  Firmware updates, Geo updates, and NFZ errors in the middle of no-innernets nowhere.  Got back and the retailer agreed to take it back several months beyond the 30day return policy and give me a refund.  DJI drones are awesome - if you only intend to fly around your back yard or RC park "Wheee!  Look at it go!", but I already have a $60 toy drone from Fry's for that.  I'd never accept this from any of my DSLRs, bricking every time an update comes out.  As for NFZ, I was "nowhere" near one.  I say "nowhere" in quotes because it depends on how generous a margin DJI puts around NFZs.  If they have a 30mi buffer around every State Park, National Park, or Congressionally Designated Wilderness area out there, I imagine all the overlapping buffers would indeed blanket out an entire corner of a state.  But ... I was in legally flyable areas, so that's DJIs problem, not mine, anymore.

Sorry for your ruined vacation... may I ask you what kind of device you were using, iOS- or Android -based?

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-11 09:01
Sorry for your ruined vacation... may I ask you what kind of device you were using, iOS- or Android -based?

I had two different Android tablets and an Android phone - all pre-loaded with the app and tested the day before heading on the trip, all worked fine from home.  I've read most of this thread and think that I came up with the most practical and simple solution: return the drone and never buy another DJI product again (this was my first).  Was asked by another photographer if I'm going to take my refund and buy the GoPro drone - probably not.  No more drones until the hysterical moral panic settles down some.  DJIs response to this sucks major you-know-what, but they are stuck between the moral panic and calls for bans/regulation on one hand, and on the other hand the "no-fly-zone-Earth" meme - they currently seem to favor the no-fly-zone-Earth model.  Maybe that's better than 200-some-odd different screams for different restrictions in different countries, maybe not.  But I'll tell you this: it's not worth me paying $1300 for a piece of equipment that is impressive on paper but becomes a paper weight any time I take it somewhere worth photographing/filming.

ThaBigPerm Posted at 2017-7-11 08:20
I just got back from a trip to the mountains where the exact same thing happened - bought a Mavic Pro Fly More kit in April for the 4th of July trip to the San Juans.  Flew it 2-3 times to check it out around home.  One last time fired up when packing for the trip.  Get to the mountains and it's locked.  Firmware updates, Geo updates, and NFZ errors in the middle of no-innernets nowhere.  Got back and the retailer agreed to take it back several months beyond the 30day return policy and give me a refund.  DJI drones are awesome - if you only intend to fly around your back yard or RC park "Wheee!  Look at it go!", but I already have a $60 toy drone from Fry's for that.  I'd never accept this from any of my DSLRs, bricking every time an update comes out.  As for NFZ, I was "nowhere" near one.  I say "nowhere" in quotes because it depends on how generous a margin DJI puts around NFZs.  If they have a 30mi buffer around every State Park, National Park, or Congressionally Designated Wilderness area out there, I imagine all the overlapping buffers would indeed blanket out an entire corner of a state.  But ... I was in legally flyable areas, so that's DJIs problem, not mine, anymore.

You know you say you checked just before you left for your trip, but you never said exactly when, but let's say it was two days before you left, well there were no new firmware updates between this time in fact firmware updates were many days previous to when you left for your trip.
So without having to read much more I think this was partly due to your own neglect.

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-7-11 12:59
You know you say you checked just before you left for your trip, but you never said exactly when, but let's say it was two days before you left, well there were no new firmware updates between this time in fact firmware updates were many days previous to when you left for your trip.
So without having to read much more I think this was partly due to your own neglect.

Right - my own neglect.  I tested everything, on multiple devices, checking for app updates/firmware updates the day before heading out - everything worked fine and drone fired up.  Three days later it won't fly anywhere I take it.  Sorry, I like my idea better - it's not my problem anymore as I'm getting a refund.  Once the drone industry finally figures it's mess out, maybe, *maybe* I'll try one again.  But I'd never spend $1300 on a camera body that, with a coin toss may refuse to work when taken to strange and unusual places.

ThaBigPerm Posted at 2017-7-11 13:20
Right - my own neglect.  I tested everything, on multiple devices, checking for app updates/firmware updates the day before heading out - everything worked fine and drone fired up.  Three days later it won't fly anywhere I take it.  Sorry, I like my idea better - it's not my problem anymore as I'm getting a refund.  Once the drone industry finally figures it's mess out, maybe, *maybe* I'll try one again.  But I'd never spend $1300 on a camera body that, with a coin toss may refuse to work when taken to strange and unusual places.

I agree some have had genuine problems, and deserve sympathy. Your not one of them , you said you were asked to update firmware , but had checked 2/3 days before, that doesn't add up, because when you said you checked for updates there would have been a notice to update firmware, and if you had have done this you may not have had your problems, and it's your mistake that leads to a lot of confusion about these matters.

It's also strange you came to P4 forum and not Mavic , but there are almost no reports of this with Mavic.

But as you say it's not your problem anymore. Good luck.