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Lost new phantom 4 pro + drone this day
2079 35 2017-6-29
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fans4bd4007c
lvl.1
Flight distance : 151444 ft
Netherlands
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Hi,

I went out again for a flight today, i travelled to about 3100Meters distance, then suddenly the image lost, and connection lost appears.
Normally the drone would return to home at the altitude set (48 meters).
But after waiting for 30 minutes, i start to believe he dont come home anymore.

I drove to the woods where i was flying above, but cant find him anymore.

How is this possible?

The settings was set to return to home when signal lost... ?
I dont understand.

If you need flight logs, or other data from the remote, let me know, i can supply!

What does DJI do about this? this seems not okay drone, malfunction is the better word...
its a brand new drone, and had about 10 flights, and all returning good to home when initiated.

2017-6-29
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RedHotPoker
Captain
Flight distance : 165105 ft
Canada
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Please post the dat files once you have them.

Go here for instructions to upload...
www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload



RedHotPoker
2017-6-29
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Labroides
Captain
Flight distance : 9991457 ft
Australia
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"How is this possible?"

There are several things that could have gone wrong but without flight data, no-one will be able to help you.
The data is recorded by the app.
Go to http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/Upload/
Follow the instructions to upload your flight record.
Come back and post a link to the report it provides and someone here might be able to analyse it and give you an understanding of the cause of the incident.

2017-6-29
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Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
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Maybe it got hit by a helicopter?

Or maybe it hit someone paragliding?

At over 3km distance you wouldn't have any way to know!

But there may be some clues in the log...
2017-6-29
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DJI Diana
Administrator
Flight distance : 2408 ft

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Sorry for your loss, sync the flight records on the APP, then send an email with your DJI account email address and the date this occurred to support.nl@dji.com. we'll create a case and submit a data analysis for you.
2017-6-29
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Antonio76
Captain
Flight distance : 144403 ft
Denmark
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This is one of the reasons why in the Netherlands you are required to fly VLOS...
2017-6-30
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hdlou94
First Officer
Flight distance : 753163 ft
United States
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sorry to hear about your loss,
2017-6-30
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Twente
lvl.1
Flight distance : 13734 ft

Netherlands
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What does DJI do about this? this seems not okay drone, malfunction is the better word...
its a brand new drone, and had about 10 flights, and all returning good to home when initiated.


Expensive lesson learned: Don't fly beyond line of sight, and don't trust on the return to home feature. Analyse the flight data, maybe you'll see what happened. You probably hit a bird, or a propeller came off.
2017-6-30
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fans4bd4007c
lvl.1
Flight distance : 151444 ft
Netherlands
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-6-29 14:49
Please post the dat files once you have them.

Go here for instructions to upload...

Hi, here you go: http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/WXGESROZR994RG8QC6XI/
2017-6-30
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fans4bd4007c
lvl.1
Flight distance : 151444 ft
Netherlands
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Nigel_ Posted at 2017-6-29 22:59
Maybe it got hit by a helicopter?

Or maybe it hit someone paragliding?

Hi, No helicopters heard and never flying on 132 meters above woods.
No paragliding also here.
There was 1 line of sight , nothing between it... thats the whole problem.
2017-6-30
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fans4bd4007c
lvl.1
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Netherlands
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DJI Diana Posted at 2017-6-29 23:05
Sorry for your loss, sync the flight records on the APP, then send an email with your DJI account email address and the date this occurred to . we'll create a case and submit a data analysis for you.

Hi,

See here for flight record: http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/WXGESROZR994RG8QC6XI/
I will email now.
2017-6-30
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fans4bd4007c
lvl.1
Flight distance : 151444 ft
Netherlands
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Twente Posted at 2017-6-30 07:15
Expensive lesson learned: Don't fly beyond line of sight, and don't trust on the return to home feature. Analyse the flight data, maybe you'll see what happened. You probably hit a bird, or a propeller came off.

Hi,

I was flying in line of sight, nothing between it, at 100 meter height, there is no building that high here, return to home wasnt initiated, why not? , if the drone hit something or there broke something, okay, but suddenly the image signal lost and the remote connection lost, till the last second there was no strange image on the screen.
2017-6-30
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racer888
lvl.4
Flight distance : 99970 ft
United States
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Are you saying that at 132m high and 3100m out you could see the drone? That is approximately 2 miles away and 435 feet up......seriously?
2017-6-30
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Nigel_
Captain
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United Kingdom
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fans4bd4007c Posted at 2017-6-30 09:08
Hi, No helicopters heard and never flying on 132 meters above woods.
No paragliding also here.
There was 1 line of sight , nothing between it... thats the whole problem.

Must be some aircraft about, you were close enough to the airport to get the message "Unlock Authorization Zone" at the start of the log, and then you flew closer to the airport.

If it did try to fly back, I'm not sure it would have made it since you had used half the battery on the way out and there was going to be a head wind on the way back so would have required more than half a battery to return.

Why did it not do a low battery return to home before you lost contact?
2017-6-30
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Antonio76
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Flight distance : 144403 ft
Denmark
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fans4bd4007c Posted at 2017-6-30 09:23
Hi,

I was flying in line of sight, nothing between it, at 100 meter height, there is no building that high here, return to home wasnt initiated, why not? , if the drone hit something or there broke something, okay, but suddenly the image signal lost and the remote connection lost, till the last second there was no strange image on the screen.

Excuse me, but do you have any idea of the rules you have to abide by when you fly a recreational drone in the Netherlands? It looks like you broke them all...
lost 1.jpg
lost 2.jpg
NO FLY EINDHOVEN.jpg
2017-6-30
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RedHotPoker
Captain
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Canada
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fans4bd4007c Posted at 2017-6-30 09:09
Hi, here you go: http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/WXGESROZR994RG8QC6XI/

Fly like an eagle.... Into the horizon!!

Um. That was quite the excursion. ;-)
Were you making a delivery? Ha
Sorry, yeah, what were you thinking?


I hope it gets retrieved.


RedHotPoker
2017-6-30
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Antonio76
Captain
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Denmark
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2017-6-30 12:14
Fly like an eagle.... Into the horizon!!

Um. That was quite the excursion. ;-)

Apparently it "landed" near here...
last seen.jpg
2017-6-30
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Nigel_
Captain
Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
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I think you lost contact because you flew behind a building.  The further you fly the lower the angle gets and at that distance it only needs a short building to block the view for both you and the remote control.

Unless you were standing on a roof?
2017-6-30
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hallmark007
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fans4bd4007c Posted at 2017-6-30 09:23
Hi,

I was flying in line of sight, nothing between it, at 100 meter height, there is no building that high here, return to home wasnt initiated, why not? , if the drone hit something or there broke something, okay, but suddenly the image signal lost and the remote connection lost, till the last second there was no strange image on the screen.

It maybe when you lost signal your AC decided to RTH but didn't have enough battery power to get home so may have just landed.
You were also experiencing high wind velocity if your AC had to turn back into the wind and with only half battery power no chance of getting back.

It looks like you got plenty f warnings you must have seen battery power you had lost signal intermittently all signs you should have turned for home a lot sooner.

But hey it's your drone sometimes when you fly by the seat of your pants you get caught out. Sorry you lost your drone, but sometimes they're is a price to pay when we take a risk.
2017-6-30
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racer888
lvl.4
Flight distance : 99970 ft
United States
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Antonio76 Posted at 2017-6-30 12:35
Apparently it "landed" near here...

Unless I am reading his flight log wrong, this is where he took off from and it looks like it probably landed in the woods at the other end of his flight.
2017-6-30
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Antonio76
Captain
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Nigel_ Posted at 2017-6-30 11:41
Must be some aircraft about, you were close enough to the airport to get the message "Unlock Authorization Zone" at the start of the log, and then you flew closer to the airport.

If it did try to fly back, I'm not sure it would have made it since you had used half the battery on the way out and there was going to be a head wind on the way back so would have required more than half a battery to return.

Hi Nigel,
This really makes me doubt the utility of the authorization system... By the Dutch law, drones are *forbidden* to fly into TFRs, and this is a 0 to 3000 ft interdiction zone, but DJI lets you fly there simply by unlocking it???

https://kadata.kadaster.nl/dronekaart/
2017-6-30
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racer888
lvl.4
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Nigel_ Posted at 2017-6-30 12:35
I think you lost contact because you flew behind a building.  The further you fly the lower the angle gets and at that distance it only needs a short building to block the view for both you and the remote control.

Unless you were standing on a roof?

It looks like he took off from the roof top patio on that building and nobody's sight is good enough to be able to see that drone two miles away and 435 feet AGL. It looks like it crashed in the woods along that highway he was following.
2017-6-30
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Antonio76
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racer888 Posted at 2017-6-30 12:58
Unless I am reading his flight log wrong, this is where he took off from and it looks like it probably landed in the woods at the other end of his flight.

You are obviously  right...  I just downloaded and checked the KML file on GoogleEarth and there I saw the battery power percentages, and it says 94% over that building, so it must have been the starting point. Still, and I don't want to be the party pooper,  it must be stressed that some or many people are flying illegally, either willfully or by ignorance of the rules / laws. And this is not good...
2017-6-30
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NewPro4user
lvl.2
Flight distance : 34964 ft
United States
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I'm new to this Drone flying I've had mine going on eight months. One thing I know is over two miles away it is impossible to see that Drone. Under the right conditions, i.e., cloud coverage in the right spot you could lose sight of it 25 ft from you to the point you have to start scanning where you last remember seeing it. That's all I've got to say about that. Again sorry for your loss hopefully DJI could help you out.
2017-6-30
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Nigel_
Captain
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Antonio76 Posted at 2017-6-30 13:04
Hi Nigel,
This really makes me doubt the utility of the authorization system... By the Dutch law, drones are *forbidden* to fly into TFRs, and this is a 0 to 3000 ft interdiction zone, but DJI lets you fly there simply by unlocking it???

It has to be the pilot that is responsible, not DJI.  I do wonder if the message that was displayed was adequate to inform the pilot of the issue though.  

Possibly the no-fly zone is not on DJI's map and it was a warning due to the nearby airport, that would have just been a warning rather than an instruction that flying was not allowed.

Under the new authorisation system the self-authorisation should have been logged and the authorities can track down the pilots of drones flying illegally.  I think it should be enough as long as the pilots have sufficient knowledge of the situation.  We will have to see how well it works from experience though.  Do Dutch pilots get issued with government information in the same way that UK pilots get issued with our Drone Code when they purchase a drone?

Even with the excuse of not knowing the regulations, flying at 3.6Km distance with only 50% battery left and a head wind back over a city is not good to see, seems like some people need some training before taking to the air.

Lots of reasons why it would be an illegal flight in the UK, just flying over a city is not allowed without needing a no-fly zone, I don't want to comment on Netherlands law though.
2017-6-30
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Nigel_
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racer888 Posted at 2017-6-30 13:03
It looks like he took off from the roof top patio on that building and nobody's sight is good enough to be able to see that drone two miles away and 435 feet AGL. It looks like it crashed in the woods along that highway he was following.

I don't see any reason why it would have crashed or not come back into radio contact, but unless it is found I don't think we will ever know.   Maybe it crashed into another drone, the pilot could not possibly have seen that at 3.6Km distance, not even with binoculars!
2017-6-30
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Antonio76
Captain
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Nigel_ Posted at 2017-6-30 14:16
It has to be the pilot that is responsible, not DJI.  I do wonder if the message that was displayed was adequate to inform the pilot of the issue though.  

Possibly the no-fly zone is not on DJI's map and it was a warning due to the nearby airport, that would have just been a warning rather than an instruction that flying was not allowed.

I agree, the pilot is ultimately responsible for the flight, but IMHO the authorization system is flawed when it allows to fly where the local rule forbids it...  
I don't know how pilots get informed about Dutch rules, what I know is that months before buying my first drone I informed myself about Danish rules (it was very easy to find the official documents) and since today a new set of rules has come into effect,  I already registered (just past midlight local time) and even took the exam -and passed it- just in case, following the new rules which don't limit my flights more than the previous ones, but just ask for registering as a drone owner for drones above 250 grams, and if one is not a member of a recognized model club, to pass a theory exam regarding the rules, and, of course, an insurance for at least 750,000 Euros). So now  ijust have to print my registration number, stick it to the aircraft and continue flying (responsibly) exactly as I have done until now.
2017-6-30
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Labroides
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fans4bd4007c Posted at 2017-6-30 09:23
Hi,

I was flying in line of sight, nothing between it, at 100 meter height, there is no building that high here, return to home wasnt initiated, why not? , if the drone hit something or there broke something, okay, but suddenly the image signal lost and the remote connection lost, till the last second there was no strange image on the screen.

This is one of those frustrating cases where the flight record doesn't give any clear cause of the incident.
But it does give enough evidence to eliminate some of the common causes of lost Phantoms.
The flight record just stops at 9:18.5 with the Phantom at 132 metres and 3.6 km south of the launch point.
It's moving south at 10 m/s and battery at 55% and has climbed from 118-132 metres a few seconds earlier.

Normally on loss of signal, the Phantom would return to home after 3 seconds.
Looking at your speeds going north and south and comparing with your stick input, I can't see any evidence of wind strong enough to have caused a problem or even evidence that the wind direction would be unfavourable for the return flight.
There's no terrain or obstacles to block signal with the Phantom up high and flying over flat land.
(Did you launch from ground level or up on a building?)
Even if you were down low and a nearby building did block signal, there's no evidence of anything that would have prevented it from returning.

Without enough evidence to identify the cause, we can just say that it doesn't appear to be wind or terrain which are the most common causes of lost Phantom incidents like this.

That leaves very few possibilities.
All I can think of are a sudden electronic or battery failure that caused a total system shutdown or perhaps a collision with a large bird that caused the battery to come out (although I'd expect to see at least a line or two in the flight data that would confirm this if it happened.

And for those saying they know where the Phantom ended up, there is nothing in the flight record that indicates this.
It gives the last recorded position but nothing to indicate that the Phantom fell directly to earth at that point.

2017-6-30
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RedHotPoker
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Antonio76 Posted at 2017-6-30 12:35
Apparently it "landed" near here...

And the moral of this story, is to "please" maintain VLOS, when not out in the country away from all interferences and obstructions.



Hope that you can follow the line on your map and go retrieve it. ;-)



RedHotPoker
2017-6-30
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DJI Diana
Administrator
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fans4bd4007c Posted at 2017-6-30 09:09
Hi,

See here for flight record: http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/WXGESROZR994RG8QC6XI/

Ok, the Email Support Team will help you to deal with it soon.
2017-6-30
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JW5255
lvl.4
Flight distance : 5291158 ft
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I too got a disconnect, the AC was 200 m away behind some trees.  I pushed the left stick forward and was able to climb high enough to see the AC, but the screen still remained in disconnect.  I flew the AC home visually, after trying RTH (which did not work) and reset the RC, AC and my iPad.  All seemed to work fine after that, although I remain concerned that it happened, and very thankful that I was only a short distance away.  Not sure if I have the confidence in the AC I once had, and uncertain if I will trust it again after reading your story.
My Story:

I was flying the P4P out of sight behind trees this morning and began to lose the RC signal.  I tried to gain altitude and DJI Go crashed (iPad Pro) and displayed the iPad home screen.  I checked, and the DJI Go program was not running in background. I restarted the software, while also holding the left stick up, and the AC appeared in line of sight.   When DJI Go started again, it would not establish connection to the AC and displayed "disconnected" on the DJI Go screen.  Even with the RC within 100 m and in sight, it still would not connect  The compass on the screen was however still functioning, everything else, blank.  I felt under control, so I tried a RTH on the RC, and got no response from the AC.  I landed, restarted the iPad, RC and the AC and all worked fine again.  I have not updated to the newest firmware, so that cannot be to blame, however, I was taking a series of photos at the time in quick secession, with a 64GB card that is about 60 % full.  I am intimately familiar with both objective C and swift, and suspect that the DJI Go program was not to blame.  I suspect, that the RC or the AC software (language unknown) may have been running in a truncated manner since both control sticks functioned, but not RTH, or full feed to the iPad.  This leads me to believe it was the software on the RC that failed, and may have been directly related to the latency caused when writing both DNG and jpg files to the memory card.  I was fortunate to be close enough to the AC to fly home visually, but had I not been, I would have powered off the RC and hoped the AC would return on it's own.  I have made over 400 flights, and this failure scares me, especially since the RTH from the RC was not effective and AC did not respond.  




2017-7-1
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hallmark007
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JW5255 Posted at 2017-7-1 03:42
I too got a disconnect, the AC was 200 m away behind some trees.  I pushed the left stick forward and was able to climb high enough to see the AC, but the screen still remained in disconnect.  I flew the AC home visually, after trying RTH (which did not work) and reset the RC, AC and my iPad.  All seemed to work fine after that, although I remain concerned that it happened, and very thankful that I was only a short distance away.  Not sure if I have the confidence in the AC I once had, and uncertain if I will trust it again after reading your story.
My Story:


If you lost signal to RC you wouldn't be able to fly it and RTH should kick in , you obviously lost downlink data which may have caused app to crash or other way around so flying out of los to RC and iPad could have caused this.

It seems strange RTH didn't work . Did you hold it long enough to kick in. Also turning off your RC would have initiated RTH.
2017-7-1
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JW5255
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-7-1 04:24
If you lost signal to RC you wouldn't be able to fly it and RTH should kick in , you obviously lost downlink data which may have caused app to crash or other way around so flying out of los to RC and iPad could have caused this.

It seems strange RTH didn't work . Did you hold it long enough to kick in. Also turning off your RC would have initiated RTH.

I did the RTH the right way.  I have used the RTH many times as an auto return home.  The log of the flight ends where I lost the signal.  After reset, the following flight log started where the signal was lost on the previous flight.  Weird.  The AC must have lost all orientation, possibly a reset and reestablished the data from the RC once I was able to restart everything.  My confidence is very low now, and it will be a while before I can trust it out of my sight.
2017-7-1
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JW5255
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For what it is worth, I simulated multiple scenarios over a large open field (with an assistant) to see if I could replicate a continued disconnect similar to that I had expereinced two days ago:

Scenario one: Flying under normal conditions, everything in the green, I selected RTH on the RC.  Response: AC returned home.

Scenario two: Flying under normal conditions, I tuned off the iPad.  
Response:  AC continued to fly in accordance with stick input.  Restarted iPad, Go screen went back to normal.

Scenario three:  Flying under normal conditions, I turned of the iPad and the RC.
Response:  After several seconds the AC returned to home.

Repeated scenario three:  Flying normally, I turned off the RC and the iPad, and restarted both while the AC was in RTH mode.
Response: RC and iPad reconnected and was able to control AC and cancel RTH.  Go program returned to normal.

Conclusion: Was unable to replicate the disconnect I had experienced a few days ago.


2017-7-1
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Twente
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fans4bd4007c Posted at 2017-6-30 09:23
Hi,

I was flying in line of sight, nothing between it, at 100 meter height, there is no building that high here, return to home wasnt initiated, why not? , if the drone hit something or there broke something, okay, but suddenly the image signal lost and the remote connection lost, till the last second there was no strange image on the screen.

You broke several dutch laws flying the way you did, and now you complain to DJI that RTH didn't work? You don't even know what happened to your drone, you could not possible see it from that distance!


2017-7-4
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KEDDK
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fans4bd4007c Posted at 2017-6-30 09:09
Hi, here you go: http://www.phantomhelp.com/LogViewer/WXGESROZR994RG8QC6XI/

Hi

From the log it look like Home was first recorded after 10.07s, have you been looking on the roof at that point? or perhaps on a car in the parking space beside that building. :-/
2017-7-5
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