Dog Man Posted at 2017-7-8 15:49
Word of mouth gets around, every day someone ask me a question about drones, & also which one to buy.............

Yeah, tell them to go buy a Karma, or start building your own copter, like in the good old days.

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-7-10 10:18
All these speculations, conspiracy theories, people's moronity or not, responsibility or not, all these things aside - there's a messy situation right now, no doubt. Unfortunately the timing is the worst possible, as thousands of hardcore hobbyists and enthusiasts are in the middle of nowhere on summer vacations with malfunctioning aircrafts. I'm in such situation with a flock of 3 machines (Inspire 1 Pro, P3P and P4P+), all exhibiting erratic behavior at random since the beginning of this expedition. I did invest more than 12K in DJI aircrafts for one and only reason: to fly within specified distance radius and within allowed airspaces to record the images. That's all. Not to fight with machines trying to execute basic duties listed in specifications, internet or not in the air ... It's ruining my precisely planned summer vacation, and there's not too many of these vacations left for me ...

Since I also have p3p, what's happening? My p3A is just fine.. p3p I did not update yet.. what's erratic? Like I think I said in one of the posts.. after my first flight with internet, i had no more issues, with or without internet....  perhaps it's enough to take off for a minute with your phone as a hotspot, for each aircraft, and then i would hope u'd be fine....
Hope u can fix it before the vacation is over.....
There were discussions that one way to deal with it, is do not update the app, until the firmware is released and u r ready to go through the process...  but that came out more in the forums, not the official email announcements or warnings in the app, from DJI...
The timing would have always been bad for some.. no way to please everyone, but as far as i see, except for some people having issues, for the majority the update seemed to worked EXACTLY as DJI said it would...  but yes, there's always some exception to the rule, or a bug, or something.. Just wish people would cool down, and instead  of arguing, would just help each other to get over the hurdles, and get things working for the ones we can help.... Hope u get flying soon!

Aardvark Posted at 2017-7-9 05:51
My understanding of that is that the aircraft only needs to be connected to DJI Go or any other App' compatible with DJI aircraft (Litchi etc). Meaning that the aircraft needs to be able to see it is being controlled using an appropriate App'. So if you tried an RC only take off (no device) then the 30, 50 limit would come into play. Or as it seems the initial login has not been performed.

Since updating to DJI Go 4 V4.1.3 and logging into my account as a part of the process I have not been restricted at all, nor been asked to log into anything when flying in the middle of nowhere with no wifi connection.

I believe that once you've updated everything there are no more "update required" messages. But what if a new update comes and catches you in an inconviniet place, where you cannot do the update. Your AC may get blocked. It can happen to you already on the next update. DJI owns your drone, not you. They decide when it should be updated, not you. They decide if they remove any feature on the next update. They decide if the power output will be reduced. They have their own requirements and schedule. You are not part of it. It may just happen that their schedule and restrictions did not make any problem to you at this round of updates. May be next time.

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-9 06:06
In my experience, apart from the initial launch after an update, one only  *NEEDS* the internet connection when planning to fly in an area with YELLOW markings. So when planning a flight in a non familiar area one should first visit the DJI Maps page to make sure.  More so when the flight has a commercial motivation, with costs and obligations. When I fly at a place that is out of any DJI geofencing. I don't need to be connected to the Internet at all, and in fact I fly with WiFi disabled.

Really? So I do need Internet connection is certain areas?

Alxy Posted at 2017-7-10 11:18
Really? So I do need Internet connection is certain areas?

Apparently yes, you do need internet to fly. Look at P4P+ start-up procedure: once you power up the RC and the craft, the app first check the firmware version with DJI server. Than - and only after confirmation - you'll get the blessing to fly or warnings about necessary updates to perform ... So, unless DJI already launched their own communication satellite , yes - you need the Internet at location ... At least to my understanding ...

Alxy Posted at 2017-7-10 11:18
Really? So I do need Internet connection is certain areas?

As I understand it, you may need it to get the authorization to fly in yellow-marked zones, and this would be done with an internet connection. Opening of green- marked areas does not require internet connection. Opening of red- marked areas would be done in advance, as it might take some time. Visit http://www.dji.com/flysafe/geo-map for more details...

Dobmatt Posted at 2017-7-10 11:48
Apparently yes, you do need internet to fly. Look at P4P+ start-up procedure: once you power up the RC and the craft, the app first check the firmware version with DJI server. Than - and only after confirmation - you'll get the blessing to fly or warnings about necessary updates to perform ... So, unless DJI already launched their own communication satellite , yes - you need the Internet at location ... At least to my understanding ...

Dobmatt, is this just for the P4P+ ? I'm asking because I fly unconnected and I never had to be "veryfied" online -except right after making the last firmware update, and only once...

Alxy Posted at 2017-7-10 11:17
I believe that once you've updated everything there are no more "update required" messages. But what if a new update comes and catches you in an inconviniet place, where you cannot do the update. Your AC may get blocked. It can happen to you already on the next update. DJI owns your drone, not you. They decide when it should be updated, not you. They decide if they remove any feature on the next update. They decide if the power output will be reduced. They have their own requirements and schedule. You are not part of it. It may just happen that their schedule and restrictions did not make any problem to you at this round of updates. May be next time.

"May be next time."

Perhaps, time will tell.

I do know that so far I have always chosen whether or not to install my updates (Auto updates off on device). And that, so far at least for me, all have been beneficial. Whatever DJI, via the various governments, decide to impose on us I'm sure they will try their best to minimise wherever they can, the impact on their customer.

DJI Joe Posted at 2017-7-10 08:27
I can't confirm this exactly, but it may be the case that your app is getting incorrect information about the firmware. It should not be forcing you to update. This is why most users aren't having the same issues, but for some that are, it's not tolerable.

Have you tried reinstalling it?

I had a Phantom 4 flying fine with the DJI go app and one day in April I was FORCED to upgrade to the DJI 4 pro app upgraded to that App and the drone would not fly had to send it in for repair that they charged me 130 to fix.

Phantomski Posted at 2017-7-10 07:58
Well, I can explain the why.. because many morons fly where they should not and endanger people and aircraft.. if morons keep flying over fire aerial operations, the firmware/app will eventually require internet all the time, so they can download TFR data...  so, less morons flying where and way they should not, less chance for more restriction.. simple...

I agree with this statement. I knew this day was coming when some waterhead landed their 25 dollar walmart quad on the whitehouse lawn 2 years ago.  Having said that, PUNISH the morons who break the laws and leave the rest of us alone. Casey Nutsack should be in prison for the videos he has produced..... Talk about a moron, he leads the pack.

Cetacean Posted at 2017-7-10 02:04
Aloha 007,

     And I thought I had it bad.  Wow, this is strange.

You know funny thing I know same person is playing a very active roll in this thread. And it's more about knocking dji than getting things sorted, But there are some people and particularly some , highly defending this thread that have many  different avatars, they know who they are.

People!

1. You always needed internet to fly in yellow and red areas, not green, yellow and red - because that requires authorization to fly in No Fly Zone, and the authorication depends on internet.
2. If you did not update the app, and did not update the firmware, you could fly just fine without intternet... but if u updated the app, and not firmware, you'd have an issue.
3. If you updated everything, but then did not fly/power on the motors, and went to fly without internet, you'd have issues....

So, the moral of the story.. if u r going to a new place where internet may not be available do not allow your app to update, not do any any firmware updates, till you can do it and test with internet connection, then go fly wherever....

Not rocket science people, really!

Just learn and plan, and test, and you will be just fine!  I have been for over a year, always on current app/firmware within a week or so!

Eric13 Posted at 2017-7-9 11:33
There is no reality. What people describe as reality is their perception.
Thus Perception = Reality.

Aloha Eric,

     Great and bad are relative.  But, one can only shoot themselves in the foot so much before they are no longer able to walk.

Aloha and Drone On!

Dirty Bird Posted at 2017-7-10 13:48
Joe you got me thinking with your post.  So I was running Android 4.0.5 or 4.0.7 on my various devices.  I uninstalled Go 4 & reinstalled v4.0.7.  So far I've got it working properly on each device I've  reinstalled.  Two more devices to go but things are looking up!  Thanks!

Fantastic. Sorry you had to go through that, but it's great that you have it working as you'd like at this point. Thanks for your patience.

mhoppes Posted at 2017-7-10 08:29
Let's settle down and take the tin foil hat off.

People have been flying model aircraft without issue for decades.  The FAA does not have the authority to regulate recreational use of model aircraft, which is what most of these issues are caused by.

Aloha hoppes,

     Interesting idea except that non-military drones over a half pound will soon outnumber the total of all manned aircraft in the country.  Everyone has the right to fly in the sky which is why it has to be regulated.  Recreational RC aircraft are regulated by the FAA and new rules are being written as we speak.  DJI is on the committee working on both the recreational rules and regulations and the commercial ones for aircraft between a half pound and 5.5 pounds.  DJI knows a lot better than you or me what is coming down the pike in this endeavor.  

     DJI wants to continue the happy relationship between DJI consumers and and DJI.  Suggesting otherwise is to imply that DJI has a suicidal business plan.  Kind of hard to reconcile having over 70 percent of the drone market and being suicidal to get there and stay in that position.  

     Think about it.

Aloha and Drone On!

Phantomski Posted at 2017-7-10 08:30
Thx mate! I will test the next time i can...  but I KNOW I flew well over that distance with no internet yesterday, no issue.. now I did not try without the app.. just radio.. i will test that - and also what happens if the app crashes, and i am 1000 ft away, will it RTH properly? That is worth knowing....

Aloha Phantomski,

     Test it while you are still close enough to easily return without RTH.  Just shut off the device and fly straight radio with the RTH button activated (if it will activate).  Probably best if it is over a large field and more than 100 meters away.

Aloha and Drone On!

Alxy Posted at 2017-7-10 11:17
I believe that once you've updated everything there are no more "update required" messages. But what if a new update comes and catches you in an inconviniet place, where you cannot do the update. Your AC may get blocked. It can happen to you already on the next update. DJI owns your drone, not you. They decide when it should be updated, not you. They decide if they remove any feature on the next update. They decide if the power output will be reduced. They have their own requirements and schedule. You are not part of it. It may just happen that their schedule and restrictions did not make any problem to you at this round of updates. May be next time.

Aloha Alxy,

     What you are saying is simply not true.  Thousands of us have no problems and do not update or upgrade.  They just do not have the bells and whistles those of us who do update and upgrade do.  If you are having a problem, fix it like the rest of us do.  Do not suffer the problem and just belly-ache that DJI is against you.  DJI should not be expected to come to your house and hold your hand while you fix your machine.

     If you do not like fixing things, you are strongly advised to get out of this area of recreation and work.  We like to fix things because it is so nice when they work.  And fixing them is part of the fun.

     And for the record, DJI does not own your machine, they own the software that is used to fly your machine.  You license that software from DJI in order to fly.  Understanding your problems is half the solution.

Aloha and Drone On!

Dirty Bird Posted at 2017-7-10 02:58
I have auto updates disabled for select apps, including Go, Go 4, & Litchi, so as not to get hit with something unexpected.  Unfortunately Go is flagging itself as soon as it loads & connects.

Yes, but I don't even let mine connect. I don't use or need maps, so cell and WiFi are shut off. YMMV.

I find it not ok that flying a drone may depend on "don't update/don't go online/keep the old operating system" strategies.
Think of the hundreds of possible combinations. It is ridiculous.

The issues people are reporting reminds me of Mac OS 7 or Windows 3.0 in the early Ninties:
Daily struggle to keep the machine alive.
I guess this is the stage where consumer drone development is right now. (Imagine how everyone laughs about us in 20 years)

I don't blame DJI and I'm happy they make these drones.
But why the f**k are companies never able to face customers and their concerns, give some real answers??
We would all be glad and patient if DJI would say: Sorry guys, we messed something up. We work hard on it!

They can't do so. The moment a statement like this will be given, the sharholders will sell. The company is losing big time.
Look how Tesla shares went down a couple of days ago due to some crash test fail.

This is the brutal life of todays capitalism. Sharholders and their short-term horizon is crucial.
Customers, who should be the most valued capital of a company, are secondary...

Cetacean Posted at 2017-7-10 14:39
Aloha hoppes,

     Interesting idea except that non-military drones over a half pound will soon outnumber the total of all manned aircraft in the country.  Everyone has the right to fly in the sky which is why it has to be regulated.  Recreational RC aircraft are regulated by the FAA and new rules are being written as we speak.  DJI is on the committee working on both the recreational rules and regulations and the commercial ones for aircraft between a half pound and 5.5 pounds.  DJI knows a lot better than you or me what is coming down the pike in this endeavor.  

OK.  I'm not going to argue.  The FAA has already agreed they have no authority to regulate recreational flying.

Eric13 Posted at 2017-7-10 16:26
I find it not ok that flying a drone may depend on "don't update/don't go online/keep the old operating system" strategies.
Think of the hundreds of possible combinations. It is ridiculous.

"Shareholders and their short-term horizon is crucial."

DJI is privately held ... they aren't answerable to shareholders because there aren't any.
Your guess that the company is losing big time is probably also likely to be inaccurate.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2017-7-10 18:44
There used to be a warning for computer users & new BIOS issues advising, "Do not update unless you are experiencing problems."    I take this same approach to new apps & FW for my drones.  Unless it corrects a serious issue, or adds a new feature I really want to use, I leave things be.

nice thinking and i totally agree with you. problem from DJI recently is: i WANT keep it as it is because everything seems perfect. but DJI dont LET us have a perfectly working drone. they force us to update and later nothing but problems appear due to untested and very unstable firmware updates with no new fancy functions inside.
i think this is what people include me mean when say: DJI seems to try everything earthpossible to destroy the good relation with customers. luckily i fixed all my problems myself in one evening after a massive nightmare last over months with my new P4A+. i downloaded ALL maps around my area and hardware shut off the wifi connection from the build in screen so i will never make any update in future. that solved all problems.

Antonio76 Posted at 2017-7-10 12:01
Dobmatt, is this just for the P4P+ ? I'm asking because I fly unconnected and I never had to be "veryfied" online -except right after making the last firmware update, and only once...

No, Antonio, this issue affects ALL THREE OF MY DRONES, IN VARIOUS FORM,  RANDOMLY IN TERMS OF TIME AND PLACE, WITH NO PARTICULAR PATTERN ...

Two aircrafts operate under Go app on iPad Air2, that is Inspire 1 Pro and P3P. These once displayed "Aircraft Disconnected" message in one remote location, 2 weeks later "No Image Transmission Signal" message in another remote place. Both were back in working shape next day in nearest towns. P4P+, for change, recently refused to fly further than 30m in cellular covered region. Go figure ...

Phantomski Posted at 2017-7-10 13:56
People!

1. You always needed internet to fly in yellow and red areas, not green, yellow and red - because that requires authorization to fly in No Fly Zone, and the authorication depends on internet.

So, if pt.2 of your statement is true, than the only possible explanation of my troubles is randomly malfunctioning iPad Air 2 tablet, which controls both Inspire 1Pro and P3P with a year old firmwares and Go app. Or, Go app (v.3.1.2) is corrupted and need to be reinstalled ...

@dirty bird: For new sales I suggest a great big sticker on the box explicitly stating "Active internet connection required during flight.  DJI decides when & where you get to fly."  

BEST COMMENT SO FAR HAHAHAH! absolutely nailed it

Aardvark Posted at 2017-7-9 03:57
The Smart RTH disable option missing on the P4P must be a bug in the P4P firmware. It still exists in the very latest builds for the P4 (unless it's a glitch on the P4 build :-( ). In the P4 firmware notes they even say they have "Optimised Smart Return to Home" as part of the latest build.

Hi Aardvark. I think what we've seen there is a reversal of the DJI engineers thinking. In another thread Natalia (I think) reported that removing the switch for Smart RTH in the latest P4P release was a deliberate decision by the engineers, as who could possible want it disabled - right? She said she would feed back the subsequent teeth-gnashing.
No doubt a number of common 'optimisations' incorporated in P4P releases over the last year have made their way into the new P4 build, along with a few since the last P4P release itself. DJI would be taking every opportunity to slipstream updates from each code branch into future ones for others.

Dirty Bird Posted at 2017-7-9 15:44
It isn't that Smart-RTH is being removed.  It is the removal of the ability to disable it that is the issue.  From conversations posted here by DJI staff it would appear this was done deliberately by design &  was NOT an omission.   A P4P with high capacity battery can do ~60,000' runs.  A couple weeks back I watched one bail on a mission at a hair over 21,000' with 75% battery remaining

Hi. Just working my way through this thread, but as Aardvark has advised, you can disable Smart RTH with the new P4 build. That says to me that the app will provide the option depending on the firmware build, and THAT says to me that the engineers have listened to feedback and have reversed their thinking (assuming it was deliberate in the first place). I will bet that the function to disable will re-appear with the next P4P release.

mhoppes Posted at 2017-7-10 17:04
OK.  I'm not going to argue.  The FAA has already agreed they have no authority to regulate recreational flying.

Aloha hoppes,

     The FAA has no authority to require recreational hobbyists to register their drones.  That is a far cry from not having the authority to regulate recreational flight.  To my knowledge the full slate has not been erased, just the registration part of it.  As we speak, Congress is working on the next set of regulations for recreational flight.  Would you like to see the legislation?

Aloha and Drone On!

Phantomski Posted at 2017-7-8 15:43
I think my point is - do not point fingers at DJI blindly.. let's look at what happened, and see if there's a lesson for all of us, so we do not have the same issue.
I am sorry to say, but after all the issues I've read about firmware upgrade issues, from many users, over the last year+, I NEVER had a significant issue..  Usually I am not that lucky.. I've used a number of Android as well as IOS devices. I have an advanced and pro.. and, well, things are not as bad as many make them... so I am always trying to figure out what's happening, because I believe if we can zero in on issues people have, and the root cause.. perhapos someone else can avoid same issue...  Just blaming DJI and having a fit, as much as I understand, is not really helping anyone.. hence my approach... And believe me, I've made a share of mistakes, so I am in no way into blaming.. but knowledge is power...  ;)
I JUST upgraded, did not do a test flight yet.. will do in a few... http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=103743&fromuid=277621

I think its also unhelpful to use a sample size of 1 (your personal experience) to suggest that everyone else that has encountered an issue is doing something wrong.

Emdub 8 Posted at 2017-7-10 23:31
I think its also unhelpful to use a sample size of 1 (your personal experience) to suggest that everyone else that has encountered an issue is doing something wrong.

Perhaps not everybody, things happen, but i have been a user and an active member of this forum for over a year.. and well.. I am talking from experience... not just because I had no issues.... of course things happen, but overall, there are 2 sorts of people who come here with problems.. those who want to resolve them and learn, and those who come to scream and blame....  If people r not open to a possibility that they made a mistake, they might just as well not ask for help.... but that's digressing.. the bottom line, if u have issue, try to resolve them with the help of others, and more often than not, you will find that something broke in the process... if not, then u are one in a quite small % that actually encounter a bug, or some hardware/software issue that just cropped out....

Punchbuggy Posted at 2017-7-10 21:32
Hi. Just working my way through this thread, but as Aardvark has advised, you can disable Smart RTH with the new P4 build. That says to me that the app will provide the option depending on the firmware build, and THAT says to me that the engineers have listened to feedback and have reversed their thinking (assuming it was deliberate in the first place). I will bet that the function to disable will re-appear with the next P4P release.

You know before you speak , common sense and rational thinking , are two of the most repulsed traits around this forum, while hysteria and generalisation seem to attract the proverbial fly to S*it.

You need to be very careful of spreading so much common sense about.

I mean, you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist!”

hallmark007 Posted at 2017-7-11 12:32
You know before you speak , common sense and rational thinking , are two of the most repulsed traits around this forum, while hysteria and generalisation seem to attract the proverbial fly to S*it.

You need to be very careful of spreading so much common sense about.

Ha! Well, I can tell you that I wear a very effective charm for repelling elephants. Hey, look around me - do you see any elephants?

Punchbuggy Posted at 2017-7-11 14:13
Ha! Well, I can tell you that I wear a very effective charm for repelling elephants. Hey, look around me - do you see any elephants?

There's always one

The problem here is not enough people use the DJI Homeopathic Spray before each flight. Just one quick application will prevent any mechanical, electrical and software problems. Works on both aircraft and remote. It works with 100% reliability as long as the energy remains in the solution.  

Cabansail Posted at 2017-7-11 14:40
The problem here is not enough people use the DJI Homeopathic Spray before each flight. Just one quick application will prevent any mechanical, electrical and software problems. Works on both aircraft and remote. It works with 100% reliability as long as the energy remains in the solution.

Do you have the link to that store selling it? ;)

  
DJI appear to have initiated something which is either sinister, downright incompetent or a deception which they are not prepared to admit.

The very fact that they have disabled roll back on the firmware is very telling.

They are saying to their customers you will do what we want regardless of the consequences.
  
DJI should immediately allow roll back of the firmware to a point where all are satisfied that their drones are working to a level where the customer has a perfectly working drone.
  
If DJI insist in keeping control of drones which are no longer their property then they should be prosecuted to the greatest extent of the law.
  
I find their actions disgusting.

John.
  

Mayday Posted at 2017-7-11 14:56
DJI appear to have initiated something which is either sinister, downright incompetent or a deception which they are not prepared to admit.

The very fact that they have disabled roll back on the firmware is very telling.

It seems that you are not aware that DJI is responding to recent hacking of firmware.
That will be the major factor in preventing rollback.
I don't think that fits either sinister, incompetent or deception.

Aardvark Posted at 2017-7-11 14:15
There's always one

Oh, right. I should have said that it's a charm for repelling unhappy elephants. That guy is quite happy...

Punchbuggy Posted at 2017-7-11 15:09
Oh, right. I should have said that it's a charm for repelling unhappy elephants. That guy is quite happy...

Wonder if it works for Unicorns too?