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Just another theory about " FlyAways" - If wrong please explain
1689 28 2017-8-20
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STech - Hathder
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If Spark goes in atti mode midflight and max flight angle of aircraft its not  sufficicient to beat wind speeds, the aircraft will drift no matters how hard RC sticks are being pushed, this will looks like a FLYAWAY, but its not.

I really think that spark on normal mode ( no sport mode) just can beat  a little breeze if dont have GPS to help (10kmh) . Maybe even sport mode has trouble in some circustances and windy speeds.

The difference between spark and other previous DJI drones is that other drones have almost all AC angle capacity on normal mode, foward stick = means really 100% AC capacity.

AND IF, spark stay limited to 10kmh - angle of normal mode when it goes to ATTI mode? AND IF spark even in Sport mode, when have compass error and go to ATTI Mode, the aircraft returns to normal 10kmh limits or angle limit? Its 100% sure that almost every windy speed will make  the AC drift away and pilot has nothing that can do, just watch and think its a FLYAWAY ( when its not! its just a AC that cant beat windy speed because its being limited to 10kmh speed).  


Yes i know, when drone goes into ATTI, are not suposed to be limited by GPS speed, and is expected to be able to use all inclination angle as possible. But if its a Glitch - Bug on firmware? and if AC max angle is being limited? Remenber! Spark are the first DJI AC made to "everyone", its the first DJI drone that the "normal" mode are limited to just 10kmh speed, this shows how DJI are afraid to let "noob" users archieve greater velocity and made something stupid, so why not limit Atti speed-angle with the same purpose? ( avoid noob problems on extremely dangerous atti mode) ( avoid noob loses VPS indoor, and drone in atti mode go at 50kmh in one way and hit a person) ( avoid drone loses gps and vps in a park, and drone go full throtle at max angle and hit a person.) Limiting ATTI max angle its the unique way to "avoid" this type of problems that can happens when noobs are flying. DJI way to deal with this type of problem  its very clear when dont allow us to even disable VPS system, its a very protective way to deal with spark owners.

If Aircraft limits speed to 10kmh, this will looks like a Flyaway, explains why some "flyaway" sparks are going in one way at 50kmh, and explain why some of them managed to come back with AC after a compass problem ( maybe low windy speed at the moment or pilot experience on atti mode), if AC is limited to 10kmh speed and angle, every windy will easy blow spark like its nothing and make it go away  like a rocket.

2017-8-20
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Spaners
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That's a fair point,
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Rawsome
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Excellent point! I had "fly always" when the spark was in atti and with a slight wind there was no bringing her back, no madder how hard I pushed.
I think this should be addressed and atti mode should give us enough power to stop the drone from drifting.
I mean not against a hurricane but normal wind conditions.
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S-e-ven
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Actually, I am not sure, that atti will limit the speed to 10 kph!
I think it was in the DJI mavic forum, where people mentioned, in atti, even on 0 wind, the drone would "slip" to one side (right?)
Google will tell.
And there can be a connection over all the DJI-Drones
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STech - Hathder
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Rawsome Posted at 2017-8-20 10:48
Excellent point! I had "fly always" when the spark was in atti and with a slight wind there was no bringing her back, no madder how hard I pushed.
I think this should be addressed and atti mode should give us enough power to stop the drone from drifting.
I mean not against a hurricane but normal wind conditions.

Where i live , 100% of time the wind are faster than 10-15km-h ( on ground level and open area). What means 100% of time the wind are faster than the speed that my spark can archieve on normal GPS mode (10km-h). If my spark goes into ATTI and are not alowed to fly faster than 10km-h, i will NEVER , on 100% of flights i will do, be able to recover the drone and land, because the drone will never be able to fly faster than wind speed and back.

You understand my point? i really really really hope i am wrong!
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hallmark007
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There are a couple of things you fail to mention, if your AC has max 10kph speed limit if you are flying in winds higher than this than that is where the initial problem lies, actually when AC goes into Atti mode with no RC top speed will be 14kph, flying in Atti mode you first need much bigger stick movements if the wind is greater than your top speed then you will have only one choice that is to try to land, but it is a valid option.
I also think that flying without RC so flying within 80 metres also gives a fair chance if conditions are ok to safely land AC.
There is also a perception given by your post that somehow because spark flyers are less experienced than other AC pilots that they are having more crashes fly always , this couldn't be further from the truth , there have been just as many crashes and fly aways with Mavic for instance.
Yes there are many new flyers using spark, but from what I read and see most are getting on well they are responsible many have managed to save their AC from tough situations.

One thing is critical in all situations when flying these drones, and that is always fly in suitable environments.
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STech - Hathder
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S-e-ven Posted at 2017-8-20 10:57
Actually, I am not sure, that atti will limit the speed to 10 kph!
I think it was in the DJI mavic forum, where people mentioned, in atti, even on 0 wind, the drone would "slip" to one side (right?)
Google will tell.

I used to think on that way, but after starts thinking more and see spark in other way,  Spark its not a "usual" drone, and DJI starts to make thins on a "different way", being much much protective.

Whe are not alowed to modify spark gains, to turn off VPS, turn off lights, to change camera settings that are suposed to be easy to change and a bunch of other things. I am sure DJI made this decision to avoid "noobs" make bad things.

The fact is: i really dont doubt that DJI on SPARK ( and not on other more expensive and complete drones like mavic) changed a series of other things to make the spark "easy" and "safe" to fly.

Remember, mavic, phantons, inspires are expensive, "complete", and drones that target enthusiasts and pro consummers. Sparks targets everyone that has 499 dollars (thousands!) and wants to take a photo ( much more dangerous buyers that may put DJI brand name on trash if something goes bad).


Its much easier someone with a spark that never flyed before, start to fly on a park, the drone lost gps and vps, goes in atti mode and pilot doesnt even know what to do and push stick hard "trying" to do something and spark goes at full speed (50kmh) into a child.

For DJI its easier limit the spark max inclination on atti mode and make it easier to controll on that situation, especialy on a indoor flight, that is easy to lose VPS and drone go on ATTI.

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hallmark007
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STech - Hathder Posted at 2017-8-20 11:11
I used to think on that way, but after starts thinking more and see spark in other way,  Spark its not a "usual" drone, and DJI starts to make thins on a "different way", being much much protective.

Whe are not alowed to modify spark gains, to turn off VPS, turn off lights, to change camera settings that are suposed to be easy to change and a bunch of other things. I am sure DJI made this decision to avoid "noobs" make bad things.

I happen to think spark is a very safe drone, turning off lights VPS I don't know how this would make things difficult for new flyers and hopefully these will come with updates.
Before spark new flyers had to start somewhere and spark is a great option for new flyers, many new flyers start with P3 P4 P4Pro , if you are willing to do things right and are willing to learn then you can learn on any of these drones.

From the minute you start flying this is a learning curve for everyone, nobody was born for this , they just have to learn.
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hallmark007
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S-e-ven Posted at 2017-8-20 10:57
Actually, I am not sure, that atti will limit the speed to 10 kph!
I think it was in the DJI mavic forum, where people mentioned, in atti, even on 0 wind, the drone would "slip" to one side (right?)
Google will tell.

Atti flying with phone 14kph flying RC 36kph.
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hallmark007
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STech - Hathder Posted at 2017-8-20 10:57
Where i live , 100% of time the wind are faster than 10-15km-h ( on ground level and open area). What means 100% of time the wind are faster than the speed that my spark can archieve on normal GPS mode (10km-h). If my spark goes into ATTI and are not alowed to fly faster than 10km-h, i will NEVER , on 100% of flights i will do, be able to recover the drone and land, because the drone will never be able to fly faster than wind speed and back.

You understand my point? i really really really hope i am wrong!

14kph flying with phone 36kph flying with RC. if operator is flying in wind that is faster than his AC then that is the problem not going into Atti mode.
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STech - Hathder
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-8-20 11:31
Atti flying with phone 14kph flying RC 36kph.

If the max speed on atti using phone its really 14km/h. 100% of time that my spark goes into ATTI i will not be able to bring her back, wind are ALWAYS faster here.

And i dont have the controller, and dont plan to buy one.

Even with controller, 34km\h is not too much to go against wind at 100m height.
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hallmark007
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STech - Hathder Posted at 2017-8-20 11:33
If its really 14km/h. 100% of time my spark goes into ATTI i will not be able to being her back, wind are always faster here.

And i dont have the controller. But 34km/h at 100m altitude wind speed its like nothing too.

Don't fly in such high winds or buy RC .
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Kyokushin
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Easy to check.

Disable GPS in spark by alu tin foil, then it will fly only in ATTI, then check max speed on normal and sport.
You do not need to go high. Do it at not windy day on 1 meter altitude over the grass. You will see how funny is flying in atti. If You flied in other drones with atti mode then it will be a piece of cake.
You will know everything after few meters.
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STech - Hathder
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-8-20 11:44
Don't fly in such high winds or buy RC .

Like i said, 100% of days and times i flyed and will fly the wind speed will be more than 14km/h. 14km/h its almost like no wind where i live, and i realy sure thats the same on other hundreds of cities on world.

I think its a DJI mistake limit atti speed on phone to that very slow parameters and for sure this will cause hundreds of fakes "fly aways".

Even with controller ta 36km/h limit, its very easy to have 36+ winds at 100m altitude. That explains a LOT of "fly aways".

I dont plan to buy the controller, and want my drone to be 100% usable and safe without using it.

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Rawsome
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Agree though get the mote, you will get a lot more bang for your buck.
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Kilrah
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Spark is pointless without the remote IMO, speed way too limited, no sport mode, abysmal range.

With the RC in ATTI I get about 65km/h, so it's capable of anything you want. Would need to check if that's also in stock condition though, but I have 0 intention to even try WiFi to phone.
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STech - Hathder
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I made this video without the remote, and for me its good, even with limited speed and range. I choose not buy the controller, i just dont expect that ATTI limited speed puting it on dangerous situation. ( i came from p3 adv.)

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STech - Hathder
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Kilrah Posted at 2017-8-20 13:14
Spark is pointless without the remote IMO, speed way too limited, no sport mode, abysmal range.

With the RC in ATTI I get about 65km/h, so it's capable of anything you want. Would need to check if that's also in stock condition though, but I have 0 intention to even try WiFi to phone.

Its not atti, its Sport mode, if the speed that other user gives its real, on atti you are limited to 36km\h and will need to go against winds to bring drone back.
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Kilrah
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No, it is ATTI. This with about 20km/h tailwind:
84.jpg
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STech - Hathder
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If the max speed on atti given by the user Hallmark007 are right, the conclusions are:

- If you are using phone as controller and wind speed are more than 14km\h and you get compass error and lost GPS, YOUR DRONE WILL DRIFT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.

- If you are remote controller and wind speed are more than 36km\h and you get compass error and lost GPS, YOUR DRONE WILL DRIFT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.

- If you live on a place that wind are always more than 14km\h or 36km\h , just PRAY to dont lose GPS


- 14km\h is JUST a GENTLE BREEZE and 36km\h is just a FRESH BREEZE! The tests are made on ground level, imagine how diferent are the wind speed at 30 - 50 - 100m height.

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STech - Hathder
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Kilrah Posted at 2017-8-20 13:19
No, it is ATTI. This with about 20km/h tailwind:
[view_image]

How you manually activated ATTI mode on Spark? I think it justs changes to atti mode automatically.
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hallmark007
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STech - Hathder Posted at 2017-8-20 13:31
If the max speed on atti given by the user Hallmark007 are right, the conclusions are:

- If you are using phone as controller and wind speed are more than 14km\h and you get compass error and lost GPS, YOUR DRONE WILL DRIFT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.

As I have already said Atti mode won't come into the equation if you go flying in a wind that is faster than your drone can move, so really your argument is irrelevant.
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Kilrah
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Google is your friend, can't be discussed here.
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Kilrah
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My understanding is that by default the aircraft control system both in GPS and ATTI modes will do the ~36km/h regardless of whether you're using the phone or RC. The 14km/h limit with phone is a control side limit, not a flight limit. Otherwise he could not fly in >14km/h winds at all, period. He seems to say he can (if there was 25km/h wind he'd be flying at 36-25=11km/h instead of 14, but not flying away, and ATTI should be the same).
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hallmark007
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Kilrah Posted at 2017-8-20 13:51
My understanding is that by default the aircraft control system both in GPS and ATTI modes will do the ~36km/h regardless of whether you're using the phone or RC. The 14km/h limit with phone is a control side limit, not a flight limit. Otherwise he could not fly in >14km/h winds at all, period. He seems to say he can (if there was 25km/h wind he'd be flying at 36-25=11km/h instead of 14, but not flying away, and ATTI should be the same).

But max speed using phone is 14 kph.
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Kyokushin
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STech - Hathder Posted at 2017-8-20 13:32
How you manually activated ATTI mode on Spark? I think it justs changes to atti mode automatically.

Tin aluminium foil will block GPS signal if you want to enforce it to a test purpose.
You can deactivate ATTI by removing a foil ;)
Of course you need to do it very cautionsly because you may get flyaway... so do not fly high and on wind.

And as kilrah mentioned - other things cant be discussed here.
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Kilrah
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Max GROUND speed YOU can make it go at - but that doesn't mean it can't do any higher airspeed by itself when the navigation system needs it to hold position in winds higher than 14km/h. Different things.
If it didn't then he could not fly at all, it would fly away anytime there's more than 14km/h wind, but it's not the case.
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hallmark007
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Kilrah Posted at 2017-8-20 14:12
Max GROUND speed YOU can make it go at - but that doesn't mean it can't do any higher airspeed by itself when the navigation system needs it to hold position in winds higher than 14km/h. Different things.
If it didn't then he could not fly at all, it would fly away anytime there's more than 14km/h wind, but it's not the case.

Sorry my bad it's 14mph so 21kph but only if obstacles avoidance is turned off this is also the fastest speed in Atti mode.
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TexasAerials
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I think some of it is just people not used to the kind of corrective inputs needed to fight into the wind.  also if you're very high up when it happens you'll have a hard time keeping orientation and figuring out where the AC is in relation to you.  You also lose the location on your map as well as heading info so you can't even use the map to point it back towards home so you can get it down safely.  in short, it is a good example of why to keep the drone within sight or have a spotter to watch it for you.  

when mine had the countersheadingexception error, it was close by, but I was pushing it on the conditions flying in some gusty winds.  at first it did seem unresponsive but I had to give some heavy inputs to get it to fight into the wind.   keep in mind that when things are working normally, and you push 50% right stick, what you're really saying is, "fly to the right at X speed," and the aircraft software figures out what it needs to do in order to make that happen, which it won't do in atti mode.  
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