Hi All,


So, I think the Spark could be amazing and I love most of the video and the photos I get from it. But, the range (with RC) is so poor and the signal drop outs are really annoying. I pretty much always lose signal at about 100-150 meters even recently when I was on small island in the middle of the Indian Ocean with no obstructions and direct line of sight. Having previously owned a phantom 4 and a Mavic Pro, which were rock solid, this is disappointing. I wouldn't mind if I could get 500 meters!

I hope that the Spark 2 rectifies this as the form factor and portability of this drone are amazing. I knew it was limited, but it's way more limited than advertised!

Do you think this is just standard for the Spark, or does it indicate I may have a problem with my unit?

Cheers

Ben

I have gained enough confidence to send mine further. Yesterday I sent it 414 meters before turning back, so I'm happy with the range.

jyc Posted at 2017-9-12 08:22
I have gained enough confidence to send mine further. Yesterday I sent it 414 meters before turning back, so I'm happy with the range.

Yes, but bear in mind that you are in FCC mode, Ben is in CE mode. That is the problem.

Hi Ben, the problem you are facing is our region (Europe) where we are operating in CE mode. And in particular if the 5.8 Ghz band is used between RC and the Spark (and that is the default setting) the connection reliability is far from satisfactory. Please take some time to read through the other threads in this forum relating to this topic. It has already been extensively discussed and possible improvements suggested. It might help as well to find a good copter forum in the UK with other spark users where you can read about their solutions.

First of all, you can try to change the channel to 2.4 G. And adjust your antenna to a right position. Do not shield it during the flight. Please keep us updated, thanks.

ya unfortunately DJi really missed a golden opportunity with the spark here.  i personally do not mind the use of wifi, but what bothers me is that dji hasnt implemented a smarter use case for the wifi. the spark picks 1 channel at start up automatically then that's it. smart use would have been to created a switching system where the RC and aircraft talking on multiple channels or using both 2.4 ghz and 5.8 ghz.. and intelligently switches channels and frequencies as needed on each end.  proven that while wifi isn't ideal if you pick the right channel before flight, it can go pretty far, some people pushing 2 mile barrier.   i mean technically speaking, occusync doesnt have a very high power output, it is higher then spark's wifi system but what makes occusync better with mavic pro is it is smart and premptive in switching channels and bandwidth while in use.      dji is also pushing users to use build in wifi off the spark's RC and your phone instead of using OTG, making possibly crowded spectrum even tighter.  which in cities and such is far from ideal, what should be the case is when you plug your phone or tablet into OTG the RC should shut off the network you would use for your phone/tablet to connect with controller..
i imagine the spark 2 will fix these short comings and over sights...  or maybe a few months down the road dji will overhaul the wireless concept with the spark and RC

ImHereToCrash Posted at 2017-9-12 19:17
ya unfortunately DJi really missed a golden opportunity with the spark here.  i personally do not mind the use of wifi, but what bothers me is that dji hasnt implemented a smarter use case for the wifi. the spark picks 1 channel at start up automatically then that's it. smart use would have been to created a switching system where the RC and aircraft talking on multiple channels or using both 2.4 ghz and 5.8 ghz.. and intelligently switches channels and frequencies as needed on each end.  proven that while wifi isn't ideal if you pick the right channel before flight, it can go pretty far, some people pushing 2 mile barrier.   i mean technically speaking, occusync doesnt have a very high power output, it is higher then spark's wifi system but what makes occusync better with mavic pro is it is smart and premptive in switching channels and bandwidth while in use.      dji is also pushing users to use build in wifi off the spark's RC and your phone instead of using OTG, making possibly crowded spectrum even tighter.  which in cities and such is far from ideal, what should be the case is when you plug your phone or tablet into OTG the RC should shut off the network you would use for your phone/tablet to connect with controller..
i imagine the spark 2 will fix these short comings and over sights...  or maybe a few months down the road dji will overhaul the wireless concept with the spark and RC

Thanks for your review, we will try our best to solve the current problems.

Here in Thailand I got used to up to 2500m.
Which means, I am very confident to send it out 500+m always every flight.
Next week I will be in Europe for some days.
Will check the possible range there.
And report back.
I really hope that it will not be limited to 100-200m, only!
And, of course, I will try that with otg

I have tried to switch between 2.4 and 5.8, via wifi and OTG. I am very careful with the antennas direction: Vertical to the AC, not pointing to it, bla bla bla (I've seen the tutorials), and I have been going to fly to places where there were no buildings or industries, even very few people around, like lovely lonely beaches in Croatia, in example <Yes, my holidays are over >

The results were always more or less the same: The RC wifi signal was only 100% the first 10 meters (with luck), then it starts to fall out and at 30 meters can be 3/4. 80 meters = 2/4, and 100 meters (my maximum by now) 1/4. Besides that, image transmission starts to freeze at 40 or 60 meters.

Now I'm back to my city, near Barcelona, and here it will be more difficult to find 'very-free-interferences-zones' to keep testing. Buy anyway I have enough data to think that MAYBE some AC have their receptors defective, or maybe this is the RC, or maybe the combination of RC and AC. I don't know... but, how do we prove it? And, how will DJI deal with it? Because I've seen many people here regretting the same thing.

That, without mentioning the small (or not so small) software / hardware errors that are appearing day in, day out.

I think spark is lovely and DJI is doing a very good job with their drones, softwares, apps... but I also think we are being used to much as a beta tester with spark and that brings dissatisfaction to the customers. At least myself, and because of everything that is happening, I am not really confidence every time I'm going to use the product, suffering to see what fright will give us our little sparky this time.

I hope they know how to handle it, and give good service to those affected by any problem.

Meanwhile, and despite all that, flying the spark is great. I love it

jyc Posted at 2017-9-12 08:22
I have gained enough confidence to send mine further. Yesterday I sent it 414 meters before turning back, so I'm happy with the range.

Hi,

This is not  question of confidence. It's the fact that at 100-150 meters away the screen turns black and the Spark goes in to RTH mode.

Cheers

Ben

El Diablo Posted at 2017-9-13 00:33
Te mantienes muy calmo colega buceador (soy Divemaster), yo ya estoy harto de tener miedo de volar este aparato en cualquier sitio. Vivo en la ciudad como tu y no me apetece tener que hacerme 30Km de carretera para poder volar el dron en el medio del bosque...

Jaja, esa es la expresión: "miedo a volar"!

La verdad es que la intención es utilizar el drone principalmente para el trabajo, tema de buceo Ahora parto para el rojo.

También es cierto que cerca de mi ciudad no hay nada interesante para grabar, así que el tema es volar el spark en excursiones a la montaña o al mar, además de para el trabajo.

Al final, con que vayas a una bonita playa a las 7 de la mañana, aunque sea en zona poblada, estás bastante tranquilo (sin gente) para volar.

Otra cosa es el maldito alcance del wifi, y las interferencias....

Un saludo, compañero buceador ;)

Do you think I have a faulty set up and should return it, or is this just a standard experience?

fansebbd0beb Posted at 2017-9-13 01:18
Hi,

This is not  question of confidence. It's the fact that at 100-150 meters away the screen turns black and the Spark goes in to RTH mode.

Hi Ben, I see you own a Mavic and Phantom too (lucky you :p)

They don't have the same "distance / wifi signal / image transmission" issues?

Well at the distance thing ....CE and FCC are 2 different standards....Spark is optimized for FCC but in CE country if the user wants to connect to 2.4 ghz, firstly the controller connects with the phone to 5.8 ghz and then the controller to the ac with 2.4 ghz.BUT HERE IS THE CATCH our EU devices did not see the 5.8 ghz channel that rc emits because that channel is banned in eu and CE regulations, this channel is only available in FCC .This explains why many people did not  see the rc wifi when they switch to 2.4 ghz connection.On the other hand the only way to fly spark in CE county is the default 5.8 ghz connection.This can happen because rc first connects with phone in 2.4 ghz network which CE standard can use and then the rc connects with drone in 5.8 ghz.The only thing for the moment that can bypass thees problems is OTG connection.I expect that DJI will fix this problem as soon as possible because i want to use my device as advertised with out the use of otg......Also the silence in this forum from the mods generally in that particularly problem is scaring me....Maybe the don't know when this problem will be fixed or if they are willing to fix  it at all...I am thinking that they will come one day and say "yes we fully support OTG" ( the easy fix)...

Anuvis Posted at 2017-9-13 04:14
Well at the distance thing ....CE and FCC are 2 different standards....Spark is optimized for FCC but in CE country if the user wants to connect to 2.4 ghz, firstly the controller connects with the phone to 5.8 ghz and then the controller to the ac with 2.4 ghz.BUT HERE IS THE CATCH our EU devices did not see the 5.8 ghz channel that rc emits because that channel is banned in eu and CE regulations, this channel is only available in FCC .This explains why many people did not  see the rc wifi when they switch to 2.4 ghz connection.On the other hand the only way to fly spark in CE county is the default 5.8 ghz connection.This can happen because rc first connects with phone in 2.4 ghz network which CE standard can use and then the rc connects with drone in 5.8 ghz.The only thing for the moment that can bypass thees problems is OTG connection.I expect that DJI will fix this problem as soon as possible because i want to use my device as advertised with out the use of otg......Also the silence in this forum from the mods generally in that particularly problem is scaring me....Maybe the don't know when this problem will be fixed or if they are willing to fix  it at all...I am thinking that they will come one day and say "yes we fully support OTG" ( the easy fix)...

Hi Anuvis, I'm affraid I'm missing something; I apologize in advance if your explanation is obvious and I did not understand it, or if my explanations below are nonsense (most likely).

I have flown only in the CE and I have switched from 2.4 to 5.8 ghz within the App without problem.
I remember once I used only my iphone (no RC. The only time I totally lost connection to the AC) and may be that the 5.8 ghz band was not available. I don't remember and I'll check it again soon.

But the thing is: Using the RC I understand that the band I can choose is to connect my phone to the RC, right? In this case, as I said, I can always switch from 2.4 to 5.8 without problems in Europe. So my phone can see both RC frequencies.

But another thing is the frequency at which the RC is connected to the AC, which in this case we can not choose. Is it right?

if so, and understanding that we can not manage the signal between RC and AC, what does it matter if we connect our phone to the RC via wifi or OTG? (beyond that by OTG we eliminate a possible source of interference between the RC and the AC).

I think I'm more confused now than when I started writing it

EDIT: Maybe when we switch within the App between 2.4 and 5.8 ghz, we are actually managing the conection between RC and AC? If so, here in Europe there is no problem with that.
I think that what is banned is the distance that the AC can go depending on CE or FCC, but no problem with switching between frequencies.

El Diablo Posted at 2017-9-13 00:33
Better get the Dji refresh program and I hope you know how to fly in ATI mode... unless you intend to fly your drone in the Alps or in the middle of a lake, I bet that you will not see more than 70m before starting to have connection and video feed problems...

I am scanning on google earth right now my options for a safe route there.
Will see, no intention to fly around skyscrappers.
Can't "afford" not to have my Spark the week after, when I am in China.
And dont wanna have to buy another one.
Or would that get me help with the registration in China?
mmmmhhhhhh!
And I will fly it in 2 europe countries for the footprints mostly, methinks
;-)

I am satisfied with the range I am getting with my spark.  Given the laws in Canada requires to always have line of sight to a max of 500m, then it's all good.  Plus I've never lost connection with my spark even flying around trees, blocking my line of sight.  I think disconnects are related to device/app issues and possibly obstructions such as steel, frequency interference .. etc

Furthest I've got is 1300m in the UK. @ 80m high, 2.4GHZ, with OTG & clear LOS.  i have enough confidence in the Spark now to send it out as far as it will go until it looses signal. It always returns to home.

ImHereToCrash Posted at 2017-9-12 19:17
ya unfortunately DJi really missed a golden opportunity with the spark here.  i personally do not mind the use of wifi, but what bothers me is that dji hasnt implemented a smarter use case for the wifi. the spark picks 1 channel at start up automatically then that's it. smart use would have been to created a switching system where the RC and aircraft talking on multiple channels or using both 2.4 ghz and 5.8 ghz.. and intelligently switches channels and frequencies as needed on each end.  proven that while wifi isn't ideal if you pick the right channel before flight, it can go pretty far, some people pushing 2 mile barrier.   i mean technically speaking, occusync doesnt have a very high power output, it is higher then spark's wifi system but what makes occusync better with mavic pro is it is smart and premptive in switching channels and bandwidth while in use.      dji is also pushing users to use build in wifi off the spark's RC and your phone instead of using OTG, making possibly crowded spectrum even tighter.  which in cities and such is far from ideal, what should be the case is when you plug your phone or tablet into OTG the RC should shut off the network you would use for your phone/tablet to connect with controller..
i imagine the spark 2 will fix these short comings and over sights...  or maybe a few months down the road dji will overhaul the wireless concept with the spark and RC

Hello, in complete agreement with you, this communication method is known as "Frequency hopping" and invented in 40's by famous beautiful "Hedy Lammar". ( FHSS system). This hopping increases safety and security of radio communication and reduces interference significantly. Most advanced radios including mobile phones use this method and many radio chips have this function built in. If DJI used quality radio chips in wifi modules (with high probability) these chips could be used as SDR (software definition radio) simply by suitable firmware and this ability to use frequency hopping wifi will increase safety and reliability of spark wifi RC and its effective range. Again in complete agreement with you, transmission power of Mavic and Spark RC are the same in accordance to db/m . So, please DJi use this ability in spark RC/AC if possible and make Spark very robust and solid.

PedramN Posted at 2017-9-13 10:28
Hello, in complete agreement with you, this communication method is known as "Frequency hopping" and invented in 40's by famous beautiful "Hedy Lammar". ( FHSS system). This hopping increases safety and security of radio communication and reduces interference significantly. Most advanced radios including mobile phones use this method and many radio chips have this function built in. If DJI used quality radio chips in wifi modules (with high probability) these chips could be used as SDR (software definition radio) simply by suitable firmware and this ability to use frequency hopping wifi will increase safety and reliability of spark wifi RC and its effective range. Again in complete agreement with you, transmission power of Mavic and Spark RC are the same in accordance to db/m . So, please DJi use this ability in spark RC/AC if possible and make Spark very robust and solid.

ya and from my understanding on wifi and 802.11 standard, they didn't place any limitation on channel hopping and band hopping, some routers and mesh networks used in offices and apartments today that use such tech where it changes channels on same bands and splits into multiple channels/bands as needed with each access point and client.    the only limitation in place seems to deal with acting as an access barrier, which isn't a issue when you're keeping connections synced up.     the other thing that bothers me about the spark is its using 20Mhz bandwidth on 2.4Ghz and 40 Mhz bandwidth on 5.8Ghz, and its a huge waste of spectrum given the avg transfer rate is sub 2Mbps just a few feet inches away.  infact i was measuring via RC once and it was 850Kbps avg  only 12 inches away..  dji would halve or quarter their bandwidth still get same image quality given its already not that demanding, and increase their range because narrower bands are usually more resilient against losses.  if they combined hopping channels and bands with automagtically narrowing and widening bandwidth usage it would be extremely robust.  the spark seems to do all image proccessing on board and so the stream does not demand as much speed.   like how youtube videos work.. 720P 30fps video can use as little as 350kbps connection..  dji already has a system in place similar to youtube with the spark as well where it can drop in quality/res to 480P 30fps which demands even less!  im just baffled why dji is being so wasteful and not pushing their tech.

i understand dji's point about compatibility, but that should be limited to spark -> smartphone not spark -> RC.    but if someone has the dedication to use the RC and OTG cable, DJI should then work on better hopping and switching technology between the RC and the aircraft and working on disabling usable wifi network for the phone/tablet to hook into if OTG is present.


my guess is DJI are getting too comfortable int heir position.. they slacking off because they can, knowing unlikely a competitor will be competing very closely.  if Dji cant they probably will just reuse the same boards from spark 1st gen into 2nd gen spark and unlock a few more things to seem like they changed something may call wifi something else and unlock hopping tech, unlock camera so has some manual trimming, prob wont give us a 3 axis gimbal but instead use wider lens and cut that down and back with more EIS.  otherwise i doubt much will change, likely have same sensors, they may get tuned a bit for more range and speed trimming, same placements, etc etc..  calling it now, unless a compeitor scares DJi a bit, dji wont be touching that much of the spark...  but we probably wont see any changes make the spark a pro tool until a 3rd generation atleast.. unless someone scares dji into making changes sooner..  

ImHereToCrash Posted at 2017-9-13 11:11
ya and from my understanding on wifi and 802.11 standard, they didn't place any limitation on channel hopping and band hopping, some routers and mesh networks used in offices and apartments today that use such tech where it changes channels on same bands and splits into multiple channels/bands as needed with each access point and client.    the only limitation in place seems to deal with acting as an access barrier, which isn't a issue when you're keeping connections synced up.     the other thing that bothers me about the spark is its using 20Mhz bandwidth on 2.4Ghz and 40 Mhz bandwidth on 5.8Ghz, and its a huge waste of spectrum given the avg transfer rate is sub 2Mbps just a few feet inches away.  infact i was measuring via RC once and it was 850Kbps avg  only 12 inches away..  dji would halve or quarter their bandwidth still get same image quality given its already not that demanding, and increase their range because narrower bands are usually more resilient against losses.  if they combined hopping channels and bands with automagtically narrowing and widening bandwidth usage it would be extremely robust.  the spark seems to do all image proccessing on board and so the stream does not demand as much speed.   like how youtube videos work.. 720P 30fps video can use as little as 350kbps connection..  dji already has a system in place similar to youtube with the spark as well where it can drop in quality/res to 480P 30fps which demands even less!  im just baffled why dji is being so wasteful and not pushing their tech.

i understand dji's point about compatibility, but that should be limited to spark -> smartphone not spark -> RC.    but if someone has the dedication to use the RC and OTG cable, DJI should then work on better hopping and switching technology between the RC and the aircraft and working on disabling usable wifi network for the phone/tablet to hook into if OTG is present.

Excellent work dear bro!! Very good explanation of situation and possible resolutions. Yes , wasting less bandwidth (when is not required) and agile FHSS can extreemly empowers spark AC/RC communications and make Sparky very resistant to radio interferences especially in over crowded wifi bands in cities. Note that, all of this promotion is possible only by firmware revision and all required hardware is ready onboard now! This is one of resons that in some communities it has been said that "Spark is a Giant that prisoned in a little bottle by DJI"!  If DJI could release some powers of this beast, then we will see tottal different agile and robust bird! Thanks DJI for this great piece of hardware and technology but even the most advanced hardware needs suitable firmware to release power of technology.

PedramN Posted at 2017-9-13 11:29
Excellent work dear bro!! Very good explanation of situation and possible resolutions. Yes , wasting less bandwidth (when is not required) and agile FHSS can extreemly empowers spark AC/RC communications and make Sparky very resistant to radio interferences especially in ower crowded wifi bands in cities. Note that, all of this promotion is possible only by firmware revision and all required hardwares are ready onboard now! This is one of resons that in some communities it has been said that "Spark is a Giant that prisoned in little bottle by DJI"!  If DJI could release some powers of this beast, then we will see tottal different agile and robust bird! Thans DJI for this great piece of hardware and technology but even the most advanced hardware needs suitable firmware to release power of technology.

i totally know, i did some diggin in the firmware myself, its basically got everything flashed in already.. they just disabled so much and act like not capable of such..


dji  intentionally messed up some strings of code so it cant run because they are trying to stop modding community or they sneeze some snot on their keyboard and wiped it up or something..   (which btw dji, .600 been dumped and decompiled already, better get to another lossy made mandatory update!)

ImHereToCrash Posted at 2017-9-13 11:43
i totally know, i did some diggin in the firmware myself, its basically got everything flashed in already.. they just disabled so much and act like not capable of such..

Thanks a lot for info. Dear pal, I have read somwhere (web address not in my mind now) that Spark in fact has two onboard compasses but due to some reasons (no one knows as far as i know) rear compass data readings is not used in navigation and simply ignored. Is this possible to be true?  

PedramN Posted at 2017-9-13 11:55
Thanks a lot for info. Dear pal, I have read somwhere (web address not in my mind now) that Spark in fact has two onboard compasses but due to some reasons (no one knows as far as i know) rear compass data readings is not used in navigation and simply ignored. Is this possible to be true?

no, only a single stack of units. the IMU used does seem to have 2 accelerometers. but both are 3 axis, so more likely using 2 combined together to create 6 axis. which makes sense.  but in terms of what i have seen only one solid state compass used.

ImHereToCrash Posted at 2017-9-13 11:59
no, only a single stack of units. the IMU used does seem to have 2 accelerometers. but both are 3 axis, so more likely using 2 combined together to create 6 axis. which makes sense.  but in terms of what i have seen only one solid state compass used.

Again thank very much. Very useful communication. Hope DJI implement some improvement if possible. My pleasure to communicate with you. Take care of yours. Regards.

Some great insights here.  I am a newbie living in the middle of now where with no chance of any interference.  My first flight went to 100m and the signal dropped out.  Hit RTH and Sparkle came back.  I did a bit of research and bought an OTG cable fiddles with the bands and went out to 250m before the low battery warning came on and then Sparkle came home.  I was messing about with trying to get shots and also had a bit of a bird attack! A fun flight!
I would love the Spark to get at least 1km as this would open up a whole lot of possibilities for me.  I hope the DJI engineers are listening and we get an update.

El Diablo Posted at 2017-9-13 22:54
I am really curious to see if you will manage to fly without any connection losses... where I live there are no skyscrappers but obviously other folks have wifi around me. I usually fly in the middle of a park, not too big, 150m edge to edge surrounded by buildings max. 30m high. It is IMPOSSIBLE to fly without signal loss... looking forward for your feedback after your trip

I do not think that I will have a unspoiled experience.
Possible connection loss is a "must think off" checklist point.
But I hope to "beat" the <200m limitation, which seems to happen often in europe.
With an android device.
Right now I am looking for a free grasland area, ~500m or such.
For a first try.
I guess I found one with "general" starting permission in "controlled airspace" to max 50m height.
The airport is not too close to that park area, the next hospital NFZ is just close to the one end of this location.
Also it will be before the 1. of October, I won't need this fireresisting badge, attached to the AC with fireresisting glue.
Right?
Just try to find out any other limitations, which could get my drone impounded.

Really interesting, from my perspective it seems to be easier, to fly  in Singapore under the general no higher as 60m over sea altitude plus some other rules, as to find out the actual law/rules for europes countries and local regions.

X22 CRR Posted at 2017-9-13 08:16
Furthest I've got is 1300m in the UK. @ 80m high, 2.4GHZ, with OTG & clear LOS.  i have enough confidence in the Spark now to send it out as far as it will go until it looses signal. It always returns to home.

Then you are an idiot!

The furthest legal distance under CAP393 94/95 (The Air Navigation Order) you are allowed to fly a UAV in the UK is 500m or VLOS if less.

Tharg (from the Posted at 2017-9-14 01:01
Then you are an idiot!

The furthest legal distance under CAP393 94/95 (The Air Navigation Order) you are allowed to fly a UAV in the UK is 500m or VLOS if less.

Lool the problem is if he crashes into something/one then the rules 'll be more strict ( flight license and number + flight registration ) for all of us.

People need to understand that they have to keep their drone in LOS...

Arnor Posted at 2017-9-14 01:12
Lool the problem is if he crashes into something/one then the rules 'll be more strict ( flight license and number + flight registration ) for all of us.

People need to understand that they have to keep their drone in LOS...

-People need to understand that they have to keep their drone in LOS...-

Which right now is no problem for me.

I AM in LOS ( Land of Smile)

;-)

I just wish that the Spark behaviour would be more consistent in Europe. I don't need it to fly to huge distances, but I would like to be 100% confident to fly it to 250m-300m and not lose video feed and / or RC signal. Flying at the same location, 2.4GHz, same WiFi channel on different days can give you completely different experiences. One day everything could work decently (albeit at around 200m you start getting too much lag for the video feed), while on other days you could very well lose RC signal at 150m.

El Diablo Posted at 2017-9-14 01:22
I wish you good luck and waiting to hear your experience

I can confirm something:
After flying today 2 batteries in Hamburg at the location of the Stones-concert some days ago, I have mixed results.
First flight, about 250m,45m height,  connection losses and auto RTH
Second flight, same batterie, just 300m and connection went bad.

All in 5.8 GHz.

Second batterie 500m, limited to my max distance settings only.
But weak at this point, still video .

Will try to confirm tomorrow, I think.
500m on 5.8 in a CE country isnt bad, isnt it?

2.4 GHz is much more powerful in CE mode than 5.8GHz. Switching to 2.4 GHz will increase range and image transmission quality.

That people are anticipating a spark 2 to solve their problems is appalling. It's only been available a couple of months.

fans9ea9c44f Posted at 2017-9-21 05:49
That people are anticipating a spark 2 to solve their problems is appalling. It's only been available a couple of months.

Couldn't agree more!