Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Troubles to get the BEST 4k bitrate and quality
4413 35 2015-4-7
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
mauricio.copett
lvl.3
Flight distance : 49751 ft
Brazil
Offline

Hello,


I'm a DoP in Brazil and I'm having troubles to get the max bit rate (60mb/s) from the camera (using a 64GB Sandisk Extreme Plus UHS, .mov / 4K 24p / ntsc / LOG / 0 sharpness / 0 contrast) and it seems that that is resulting in a very pixelized picture,grany, plus bad flicking every second (if I film a moving cloud shadow on the ground it "jumps" every sencond, not giving a natural move) and when I check the metadata with my CatDV app it says the average is only 7mb/s (calculating time per final file size id have the same...). Where are the 60mb/s that I see people talking about ( and also comes with the Inspire specifications/manual!)?. Am I doing something wrong or is a problem with my camera? Ive seen on vimeo  wonderfull footage and no of these effects like I found on mine... Without that troubles, Im pretty happy with the equipment and the footage will look really great...


Dji says I need a better player and monitor to see in 4k, but I was working with 4K before, at least to check quality on a MacBook Pro 15 retina and no troubles like that were seen.


Any thoughts from anybody?


I would really appreciate as I'm in the middle of a film about nature.


Also t's a pitty that the ND filter is to bright,we should have more options for different situations and lights and the camera doesnt have iris to compensate... I prefer shooting from 1/50 to max 1/120, otherwise thats too much!


2015-4-7
Use props
Mkell_CA_SF.BAY
lvl.4
Flight distance : 307431 ft
United States
Offline

Hey there, the way I have been checking the bit rate on a windows pc running 8.1 is right clicking the file name and checking the details tab under properties. Should read ~60,000 kbps

as far as image quality, hard to tell without seeing it and knowing what your iso and shutter speeds were at. I've found that my footage also has been grainy at times, especially in the edges. Don't know if its a camera issue or something else.

Right now we don't have dedicated stronger ND filters for the inspire, but I went out and purchased some ND light gel sheets that do pretty well. you can get them from LEE filters in .3 .6. .9 or 1.2 ND strength. I've done some tests here that seem to show its a usable solution for now: Inspire 1 ND filter tests

Not sure if you would be able to get anything shipped to you where you are but its worth a look.

bitrate

bitrate
2015-4-7
Use props
mauricio.copett
lvl.3
Flight distance : 49751 ft
Brazil
Offline

Mkell_CA_SF.BAY Posted at 2015-4-8 02:16
Hey there, the way I have been checking the bit rate on a windows pc running 8.1 is right clicking t ...

Thanks, very kind and helpful.

I will try to by those filters gel by Ebay. Do you "glue" this on to the actual ND or fix direct on the lens? Couldn't get that...

Another think to understand: what size is the file you sent (the printed screen)? Maybe I can then calculate  mine is too... CatDV keep saying that is only 7,1Mb/s...
2015-4-7
Use props
mauricio.copett
lvl.3
Flight distance : 49751 ft
Brazil
Offline

mauricio.copett Posted at 2015-4-8 05:09
Thanks, very kind and helpful.

I will try to by those filters gel by Ebay. Do you "glue" this on ...

Just checked this:

the original .MOV file (7.1Mb/s) transcoded by DJI transcoder to ProRes HQ (last option) resulted in a file of 122.8 Mb/s, which is just the double of what it should be the original (60Mb/s). And I have seen people reporting a much higher bit rate when this transcode is done (up to 600Mb/s...). So I'm starting to believe that something is really wrong with my original files... I think the Sandisk Extreme Plus MicroSD card 64GB should be ok, shouldn't it ( it says can record from 50-80Mb/s...)?

Thanks for your help
2015-4-7
Use props
rodger
Captain
Flight distance : 15812070 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

The Macbook Pro Retina is the best out there. I would stick with that and work with that. Do you use Apple's Final Cut Pro X? Great program!
2015-4-7
Use props
rodger
Captain
Flight distance : 15812070 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

mauricio.copett Posted at 2015-4-8 05:09
Thanks, very kind and helpful.

I will try to by those filters gel by Ebay. Do you "glue" this on ...

The Filter is an issue that I have no idea as to why DJI went this way! Problem is that the DJI Filters have an inside thread and the camera has and outside thread, Female to Male.  Readily available Filters for a camera are just the opposite, the Camera thread is a female inside the camera barrel and the Filter has an outside male thread. Why? No idea.if it were the opposite, Filters are readily available. I would really like a Polarizer and Skylight Filter along with some ND Filters. Go Figure!!
2015-4-7
Use props
Mkell_CA_SF.BAY
lvl.4
Flight distance : 307431 ft
United States
Offline

mauricio.copett Posted at 2015-4-8 05:09
Thanks, very kind and helpful.

I will try to by those filters gel by Ebay. Do you "glue" this on ...

No glue or permanent procedure is necessary with using the ND gel. It's currently what I would call a stop gap solution until we get proper filters designed for use with the inspire 1 camera.

The method I find that works best is to purchase the ND Gel strength of your choice, a circle cutter, and some tweezers to handle the gel. Using the circle cutter you can measure out the diameter of the Dji stock clear lens filter, cut out a circle of your ND gel and then you can place it inside the recessed part of the lens filter, you want it to be a snug fit, but it doesn't have to be perfect. The camera won't pick up most of the imperfections of the gel. You can even cut multiple circles of ND and "stack" them inside the filter. When you go to screw the filter on the gel, it will stay snug and secure. Taking them out I've found to be as easy as blowing a little bit of canned air into the filter to loosen them. Then just use the tweeters to gently pull them out. You don't want to use your hands because of dirt and oil that can rub off on the gel.

If that sounds confusing or complex, it's simple in practice. And again it works for now. Maybe I'll put together a video to illustrate.

As far as the file size, I'm showing 60,000kbps or (60mbps) when I view the property details for the clip on Windows 8.1, MAC might show a different way of representing it, it's been a while since I edited on my 2007 MacBook pro. This is also the file straight out of the camera before using the transcoding tool.
2015-4-7
Use props
johnmont250
lvl.4

United States
Offline

try not to use light gels, use kodak wratten2  photo nd gels for best results.
2015-4-7
Use props
Mkell_CA_SF.BAY
lvl.4
Flight distance : 307431 ft
United States
Offline

johnmont250@hot Posted at 2015-4-8 07:07
try not to use light gels, use kodak wratten2  photo nd gels for best results.


Interesting, John do you have any around you are willing to test the camera with?
2015-4-7
Use props
Baldrick
lvl.1

Australia
Offline

Hi Mauricio.copett

Just a thought here over something that also trips me up.  60mb/sec is 60 megabits/second in SI units. SI values are calculated using the Internation System of Units. You CatDV is talking MegaBytes. MegaBytes is a BI unit. BI values are calculated using Binary Units. Binary units are prefered by operating systems.

MegaBytes (MB)  are not the same as megabits (mb).  60mb converts to 7.32MB, so you are getting the maximum bitrate from the Inspire, your computer just expresses it differently.
2015-4-7
Use props
johnmont250
lvl.4

United States
Offline

heres a few clips, nothing special,  i forget the combo, but i am able to get a 180deg shutter with either the .90 nd alone, or with the dji plus the .90 kodak nd filter.  oh ya, theres a tilt shift effect on the last two clips, but ts works best with more elevated shots

http://youtu.be/L0AkLUOv2Cc
2015-4-7
Use props
jimhare
Captain
Flight distance : 239035 ft
Australia
Offline

johnmont250@hot Posted at 2015-4-8 10:39
heres a few clips, nothing special,  i forget the combo, but i am able to get a 180deg shutter with  ...

Hmmm, seems like it's squashed the dynamic range, are you sure you weren't underexposed?
2015-4-7
Use props
jimhare
Captain
Flight distance : 239035 ft
Australia
Offline

mauricio.copett Posted at 2015-4-8 05:38
Just checked this:

the original .MOV file (7.1Mb/s) transcoded by DJI transcoder to ProRes HQ (la ...

You can't compare the highly compressed h.264 files to ProRes, they are worlds apart and have no relation to each other.

The math works out perfectly.

I have an original 4k,  2 minute Inspire clip which is 900MegaBytes (7,200MegaBits.)

It's running at 60MegaBits per second (7.5 MegaBytes.)

If I turn that same clip into ProResHQ 1080 it will grow from 900MB to 2.65GB running at 180MegaBits per second (22.5MegaBytes per second.)

No relation, ProRes is just a better CODEC.

But 60Mb/s is correct for the original h.264 from the Inspire.

The truth is the shots will be hit and miss.  Some will look glorious and others will be full of pixilated garbage.  Just hitting the limits of what the camera can do, but if you feed it the right image at the right exposure you can get some wonderful footage.
2015-4-7
Use props
johnmont250
lvl.4

United States
Offline

jimhare Posted at 2015-4-8 12:33
Hmmm, seems like it's squashed the dynamic range, are you sure you weren't underexposed?

ya, i agree, think I had both nds on.  i should look at the original file... i keep trying different things, and seems the more I try to work the footage the worse it gets.
2015-4-7
Use props
jimhare
Captain
Flight distance : 239035 ft
Australia
Offline

johnmont250@hot Posted at 2015-4-8 12:54
ya, i agree, think I had both nds on.  i should look at the original file... i keep trying differen ...

Yeah, I've always tried to avoid stacking NDs.   I'm trying to get hold of some good quality 1.2 ND and putting it into the clear filter that comes with the inspire, instead of stacking it onto their ND.

Great job though, it's good to keep experimenting and someone's going to find the magic combination!  
2015-4-7
Use props
johnmont250
lvl.4

United States
Offline

thx.   I know snake river prototypes is making some, they did a good job with the gopro nds. hopefully soon....
2015-4-8
Use props
mauricio.copett
lvl.3
Flight distance : 49751 ft
Brazil
Offline

Baldrick Posted at 2015-4-8 08:52
Hi Mauricio.copett

Just a thought here over something that also trips me up.  60mb/sec is 60 megabi ...

thanks mate! I haven't thought of that, which is totally right!
2015-4-8
Use props
mauricio.copett
lvl.3
Flight distance : 49751 ft
Brazil
Offline

Mkell_CA_SF.BAY Posted at 2015-4-8 07:00
No glue or permanent procedure is necessary with using the ND gel. It's currently what I would call ...

Cheers! thats useful enough to try
2015-4-8
Use props
mauricio.copett
lvl.3
Flight distance : 49751 ft
Brazil
Offline

jimhare Posted at 2015-4-8 12:44
You can't compare the highly compressed h.264 files to ProRes, they are worlds apart and have no re ...

Thanks. I need to do more tests and see what fits better for the best of the camera can do... By the way, what about sharpnes and contrast? what are you using mostly?
2015-4-8
Use props
mauricio.copett
lvl.3
Flight distance : 49751 ft
Brazil
Offline

jimhare Posted at 2015-4-8 13:03
Yeah, I've always tried to avoid stacking NDs.   I'm trying to get hold of some good quality 1.2 N ...

I tried a ND glass filter (the one that is made for GoPros... with a plastic little tube and holder...) by taping it with the DJI UV that has the same diameter. But it seems too heavy ( pushes the camera downwards when off) and I thought that may damage the gimbal system, although it was kept straight and working well with the gimbal. Would that force the system? Don't know...
2015-4-8
Use props
jimhare
Captain
Flight distance : 239035 ft
Australia
Offline

mauricio.copett Posted at 2015-4-9 13:26
Thanks. I need to do more tests and see what fits better for the best of the camera can do... By t ...

Hey Maurcio,  When I first got the Inspire I was using a sharpness setting of -1 but have found it is indeed too soft and now use ZERO pretty much all the time.

Contrast and Saturation always  -1.
2015-4-8
Use props
julien.mu
lvl.2
Italy
Offline

Hi Mauricio,

I see you use a Macbook pro retina which i use too with FCPX.
I am concerned by the twitchy and flickering playback and was too thinking of a problem with my Inspire's camera.
After trying many options, i have just transferred the clips on my desktop pc and to my surprise the same footages give me a perfect playback with VLC !! no flickering and far less pixelized pictures...
The conclusion could be: the problem is not from the Inspire's camera but from the Mac...
Could you please give it a try and let me know if you observe the same thing?

Best regards from France
2015-4-8
Use props
Baldrick
lvl.1

Australia
Offline

julien.mu@gmail Posted at 2015-4-9 14:56
Hi Mauricio,

I see you use a Macbook pro retina which i use too with FCPX.

Hi Julien.mu

As many have said, but it is always worth saying, the .mov H.264 files the camera records to the card are fine for that purpose but not a good choice for editing. Converting to ProRes - either MPEG stream clip or the DJI Transcoding tool will work - and your MacBook/FCPX combo will work brilliantly. VLC is a transcoding tool, not an edit suite so to cut with.
2015-4-9
Use props
julien.mu
lvl.2
France
Offline

Hi Baldrick,

My footage was of course all convert in ProRes for editing, as ever i do for flawlessly with my other gopro and canon 5d mkIII files.
As i said in my post, I was talking of vlc only for playback after editing in FCPX, i'm well aware that's not an editing toll
2015-4-9
Use props
mauricio.copett
lvl.3
Flight distance : 49751 ft
Brazil
Offline

julien.mu@gmail Posted at 2015-4-9 14:56
Hi Mauricio,

I see you use a Macbook pro retina which i use too with FCPX.

Thanks for your contribution Julien, I will try that ( and other ways too) and let you know. For the moment I just can tell you that FAST movings aren't good for that DJI 4K cam... I'm making a flight trip simulation within a wonderful wildlife place ( Pantanal - Brazil) for a "bioship" projection in a museum. Till now I'm scared to see my footage on a bigger screen and see those artifacts multiplied and bigger... I hope you are right, but I'm sure the camera doesn't read well water, cloud shadows moving on the ground and those sparkling pixels everywhere on the macbook screen... Following here @jimhare I will set sharpeness to zero ( was using +1) and try a newer MicroSD card of 90mb/second speed to try to improve at least a more natural looking ( and of course we cannot expect a real 4k footage out from this camera...). Try to zoom any frame within FCPX and you will see those artifacts...) Fortunately all the footage will be projected in 2K giving me more range to hide most of that... Lets find the best results and parameters to make better images, even with limitations.
2015-4-11
Use props
mauricio.copett
lvl.3
Flight distance : 49751 ft
Brazil
Offline

Baldrick Posted at 2015-4-9 18:04
Hi Julien.mu

As many have said, but it is always worth saying, the .mov H.264 files the camera re ...

Agree Baldrick, but that is only to edit ( converting to a bigger codec such as ProRes) and that won't make the footage better, the artifacts will still be there ( try to film a river with many trees and check the specially the shades when you travel with your drone: the camera will invent images that aren't there...lost random pixels deforming what should be natural...)
2015-4-11
Use props
martin.tvmedia
lvl.1
Flight distance : 148986 ft
New Zealand
Offline

jimhare Posted at 2015-4-8 13:03
Yeah, I've always tried to avoid stacking NDs.   I'm trying to get hold of some good quality 1.2 N ...

Hi Jim, I've been looking at your tutorials on YouTube, very helpful. Thank you. All of you out there may be very interested in this. I have purchased 3 additional ND filters that a guy in China managed to get produced especially for the Inspire. They are excellent and cost around $100 USD for a set of three ND8 ND16 & ND32 Shipping is another $28 and he sends them via DHL. Check him out Ceulenaere Renaat <ceulenaere@gmail.com>
In the meantime I am still struggling to get a perfect image from this camera and it doesn't help in the fact that we have to down res to SD for New Zealand TV News  :-(
2015-6-11
Use props
jimhare
Captain
Flight distance : 239035 ft
Australia
Offline

martin.tvmedia Posted at 2015-6-12 14:26
Hi Jim, I've been looking at your tutorials on YouTube, very helpful. Thank you. All of you out th ...

Thanks Martin!   Yeah, many of us have received NDs from Renaat and Aileen, very nice people!
http://forum.dji.com/thread-13938-1-1.html


Down resing to SD should give good results, how have you been processing the clips?

2015-6-11
Use props
blackbox
lvl.4

Switzerland
Offline

julien.mu@gmail Posted at 2015-4-9 14:56
Hi Mauricio,

I see you use a Macbook pro retina which i use too with FCPX.

You may try VLC on mac : no more flickering...
2015-6-12
Use props
jtheogr
lvl.2
Flight distance : 303973 ft
Greece
Offline

What about workflow steps i made some test

First Method
Import the file from inspire camera to FCPX
Make all the cuts corrections etcShare to file vimeo, youtube, etc

Second Method
Export the file from inspire camera with Transcoding Tool in Apple Prores HQ (the file become too big)
Import the transcoded file to FCPX
Make all the cuts corrections etc
Share to file vimeo, youtube, etc


The difference is noticable especially in sharpness, contrast, color, clarity.

I am shooting 4k 25p, log.

You can see the diferences in video

First Method Video  
Second Method Video

Any suggestions about the wokflow steps are welcome

What about the compressor settings, which is better way to share directly to youtube or vimeo or export to Apple ProRes 422 HQ and upload the file.......


2015-6-12
Use props
martin.tvmedia
lvl.1
Flight distance : 148986 ft
New Zealand
Offline

jimhare Posted at 2015-6-12 15:19
Thanks Martin!   Yeah, many of us have received NDs from Renaat and Aileen, very nice people!
http ...

Hi Jim, Thanks for your response. Yep those ND filters certainly help control that shutter speed. Now we have tried many methods to get a decent SD clip for News. Most recently having listened to your tutorial we experimented with this one. Set the camera to 1080 25p, LOG mode, Sharpness -2, Contrast -3 and Saturation -1. Then we put the clip on a XDCAM 50i timeline in FCPX and exported that via compressor to an SD QT file. The jury is still out on this one !
If you have any suggestions I would love to hear about them.

Cheers, Martin
2015-6-13
Use props
Pgale
lvl.3
Flight distance : 275207 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

I've seen the problem with jumping cloud shadows. It's pretty bad. In my case, the jumps were approx twice a second. My feeling is that it's an issue with the compression in the camera and low contrast areas. You can also see this in other low contrast scenes like grass from a distance. I hope DJI improve this aspect as it's the biggest problem for me so far in image quality.
2015-6-14
Use props
dopeytree
First Officer
Flight distance : 6716467 ft
  • >>>
United Kingdom
Offline

Please sign this petition - https://www.change.org/p/dji-100 ... ntom-3-professional
2015-8-14
Use props
ge0se
lvl.4
Flight distance : 3184721 ft
United States
Offline

dopeytree Posted at 2015-8-15 06:03
Please sign this petition - https://www.change.org/p/dji-100mbp-s-bit-rate-for-the-phantom-3-profess ...

Signed. If you take a close look at some videos published by Inspire 1 beta testers prior to it's release (some published around October 2014), you'll notice that bitrate was clearly higher then and upon release they dropped it for whatever reason.
2015-8-17
Use props
Machoman
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1036959 ft
Austria
Offline

Well they included the cheapshot lexar SD Card which CANNOT write 100Mbit/s - its a tricky card its 633x U1 = 633x READ but only 10MB/s WRITE
2015-8-17
Use props
Editart
lvl.3

Sweden
Offline

Im sorry to say but the flickering Is a bi-product of the settings in the H264 compression of the Inspire1 camera and will not go away In transcoding between different formats or other methods. You might feel it has disappeared on another player (VLC) or on a PC, but In reality Its still there. Watching It on a MacBookPro Retina Is probably on of the safest ways to check the footage quality. Or just watch It on a TV or on a big screen and you will see. You can limit the effect of the flickering but not without quality loss(heavy NR and temporal filtering). Its a setting in the compression algorithm that DJI needs to address, if they can? Both the Inspire1 and the Phantom3 Pro suffer from the same visual artefacts.

Simply raising the bitrate will probably not work but It would maybe help the overall quality impression of the image, rendering more details where compression previously would create some ugly blurry blocks, floating around. This has been discussed over and over many times on this forum and I am baffled that DJI has not commented on this or given any details on the problem.

Its like Jim says, hit and miss from shoot to shoot. Thats why it cant be used as a professional tool, yet. Im waiting patiently for an update that will give this bird the much deserved respect.

I cant think of anything more important than addressing this issue.

2015-8-17
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules