The new firmware introduces EI mode. What is this?
If I am to draw an assumption, other cameras use the term EI to describe a fixed ISO system. The Exposure Index (EI) can be changed, which doesn't change the ISO, it over or under exposes the image in a way where 1 EI is equivalent to 1 f/stop. I observe that, in the EI mode, the image looks flat, so it is assumed that no LUT is being applied to the RAW image.

Likewise, in normal mode, the image appears in full color with a variable ISO. So, I have to ask if it is RAW? Is a LUT being applied to the display and to the recorded image? And, what is the recommended ISO for this mode?

It's for the new X7 camera as far as I'm aware. I don't think it's backwards compatible for the X4S and X5S although I may be wrong.

This post and the main DJI page mention it a couple of times:

https://www.heliguy.com/blog/201 ... the-dji-zenmuse-x7/

&

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa= ... _92t8SpfTt0Cm6lNRe3

Would be good to get some more info @DJI.

For some basic understandig of Exposure Index one should study how celuloid film was used back in the days It is similar to shoting RAW (as RAW is always recorded in native sensitivity of sensor)  while looking at your monitor with some other ISO setting applied for monitoring. So, you end up with recording that is always in native sensitivity, while you can simulate any ISO on you monitor while recording.
Intresting thing is that mative sensitivity of X5S was ISO100 in regular (Normal/Rec709) color mode, while it was ISO 500 in D-Log -  both are 0db gain (no gain) but they are different curves/LUT/digital gain applied in camera processing , so middle gray gets positioned diferently and therefore they have different ISO designetor to have proper exposure calculation...

I did not test new firmware with X5S or X7 but hope that DJI did what is common for many cinema camera manufacturers. Still there is difference in Sony and Arri workflow, as Arri aplies its own EI LUTs for each EI setting, while Sony has only native sensitivity LUT.

In EI mode, the exposure system of the Zenmuse X7 is the same as that of most cinematographs. It is used to change exposure and adjust signal-noise ratio, highlight latitude, and ProRes’ dynamic range. The higher the EI, the better the highlight latitude. The lower the EI, the better the signal-noise ratio and smaller the ProRes’ dynamic range. Users can adjust it based on the actual demands.

There is no essential difference between EI and IOS. They are used to measure the sensitivity of the sensor to light (corresponding to high-speed film).
ISO Sensitivity (or ISO speed) is a measure of how strongly an image sensor and/or camera responds to light. The higher the sensitivity, the less light (smaller aperture and/or shorter exposure time) required to capture a good quality image.
Exposure Index (EI) is a camera setting derived from one or more of the Sensitivity measurements. It is used to determine the camera’s exposure in response to a light level measurement. Exposure Index and Sensitivity are closely related and sometimes used interchangeably, but should be kept distinct.

In DJI GO 4, ISO settings are replaced with EI. You can adjust the EI value with DJI GO 4 or remote controller.

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-11-17 00:38
In EI mode, the exposure system of the Zenmuse X7 is the same as that of most cinematographs. It is used to change exposure and adjust signal-noise ratio, highlight latitude, and ProRes’ dynamic range. The higher the EI, the better the highlight latitude. The lower the EI, the better the signal-noise ratio and smaller the ProRes’ dynamic range. Users can adjust it based on the actual demands.

There is no essential difference between EI and IOS. They are used to measure the sensitivity of the sensor to light (corresponding to high-speed film).

Thanks DJI Mindy. What is the native ISO of the X5s with this new system? Does the EI mode work for the X5s?

DJI Mindy Posted at 2017-11-17 00:38
In EI mode, the exposure system of the Zenmuse X7 is the same as that of most cinematographs. It is used to change exposure and adjust signal-noise ratio, highlight latitude, and ProRes’ dynamic range. The higher the EI, the better the highlight latitude. The lower the EI, the better the signal-noise ratio and smaller the ProRes’ dynamic range. Users can adjust it based on the actual demands.

There is no essential difference between EI and IOS. They are used to measure the sensitivity of the sensor to light (corresponding to high-speed film).

I kindly ask you to share with us crucial information - what is native sensitivity in EI mode  of X5s and X7.
Without such info EI mode is completely unusable and unpredictable.
Balancing sensitivity/DR/noise is.based on knowing some baseline for all of them.

Please note some important technical details:
- for same sensor gain of 0db, X5S can produce differently exposed images depending on electronic gain by gamma  curve applied (Notmal, Log etc). Therefore from same 0db sensitivity sensor readout you got ISO100 when selecting Normal color while you got ISO500 when selecting previous D-Log.

- ISO number  is calculated by estimating exposure of middle gray (18%) after in-camera gamma iz applied, in order to have exposure controls working. So, you get different ISO by applying different gama curves which map different input levels  to  middle gray.  So, all ISO setting as based on 0db gain sensor readout, just different gamma curves are digitally applied in camera before recording to ProRes or H264/265... When recording in RAW,  gamma curves are not applied before recording (recording of RAW is always in native sensitivity) but they apply in post (where you can change which one you would like to,apply, called ISO)...

Regarding a EI workflow, which is common for cinema productions, you could learn a bit by studying white papers of Arri, RED and Sony (they differ a bit in their workflows).

Please respond does DJI use  workflow of Arri style (El gamma backed in recording) or of Sony style (Ezi gamma is used for monitoring while recording is done always in baseline native EI).

So, most important thing for understanding EI is what is baseline for balancing act - ISO curve with best DR and least noise, and what are those numbers for baseline ISO.

I know that all of these are very technical question for one who is not experienced in cinematography picture, but DJI set direction in you should learn and use provided tools., so we need proper info (Pleas see prorper Arei info in the link).
page 3 on http://www.vocas.nl/webfm_send/964
question 3 on http://www.arri.com/de/camera/alexa/wissen/color_faq/

DrMrdalj Posted at 2017-11-18 05:07
I kindly ask you to share with us crucial information - what is native sensitivity in EI mode  of X5s and X7.
Without such info EI mode is completely unusable and unpredictable.
Balancing sensitivity/DR/noise is.based on knowing some baseline for all of them.

I'm finding the lack of information about the introduction of Cinecore 2.1 very frustrating. It would appear to have been  designed specifically for X7 working with Pro Res and SSIDs. I run an Inspire 2/X5s/MicroSD and my workflow was based around H264, DLOG locked at ISO 500. This setup appears to have become unavailible to me with the latest firmware update. The Go App seems to have a flaw where if only a micro SD card is on board, SSID cannot be disabled plus none of the video colour profiles appear other than Normal and Dcinelike. There is no way I want to  to invest in SSIDs or ProRes as the type of work I do doesn't need that level of quality.  If there is a flaw in the Go App or Firmware it would be usefull if DJI would let us know.

EI mode essentially "unlocks" the fixed 500ISO D-log and allows you to use ISO 100-1600 in D-log. It has improved DR, improved color response and generally lower noise with both x5s and x7 cameras. Unfortunately, at this point the h.264 version of EI mode D-log is broken in my opinion, and I would highly recommend against using it as it has serious encoding errors, banding and isn't ready for prime time. You might try turning off the EI mode, switching to photo mode and setting the RAW mode look to D-log. It at least appears to give you a D-log preview in video that resembles the "old" d-log, although I haven't recorded anything, so I'm not sure that's what's actually recording.

Frankly even the old d-log was a sketchy item when used on the SD card codecs, and while I get your argument about the type of work you do, you may be better off with d-cinelike as it's a close approximation to a wideDR gamma that you would normally grade d-log back to.

DrMrdalj Posted at 2017-11-18 05:07
I kindly ask you to share with us crucial information - what is native sensitivity in EI mode  of X5s and X7.
Without such info EI mode is completely unusable and unpredictable.
Balancing sensitivity/DR/noise is.based on knowing some baseline for all of them.

quote --So, most important thing for understanding EI is what is baseline for balancing act - ISO curve with best DR and least noise, and what are those numbers for baseline ISO.

From my tests, the Base ISO is 100. Correct exposure in EI mode with all ISOs is the same (max white increases as ISO increases with the same exposure. -- this is similar to Canon Log2).  All other ISO's are gained from there.  Iso 100 exhibits lower noise than the other ISO's, mostly due to some compression that's happening in the shadows (but when you grade ISO 100 to match the other ISO's, it still appears to have less nose overall, but all Iso's appear to have the same DR except 1600 which managed to eek out an extra .5-1 stop of DR, albeit a very noisy .5-1 stop.

Barry Goyette Posted at 2017-12-9 16:59
EI mode essentially "unlocks" the fixed 500ISO D-log and allows you to use ISO 100-1600 in D-log. It has improved DR, improved color response and generally lower noise with both x5s and x7 cameras. Unfortunately, at this point the h.264 version of EI mode D-log is broken in my opinion, and I would highly recommend against using it as it has serious encoding errors, banding and isn't ready for prime time. You might try turning off the EI mode, switching to photo mode and setting the RAW mode look to D-log. It at least appears to give you a D-log preview in video that resembles the "old" d-log, although I haven't recorded anything, so I'm not sure that's what's actually recording.

Frankly even the old d-log was a sketchy item when used on the SD card codecs, and while I get your argument about the type of work you do, you may be better off with d-cinelike as it's a close approximation to a wideDR gamma that you would normally grade d-log back to.

Thanks  for the explanation. That helps a lot. I agree with you about EI Dlog being broken. Pink cast and banding. Also producing extremely high Bitrate files. I found old DLog at ISO500 to be OK with SD.  I Had no issues at all.

fansdb6ff1f7 Posted at 2017-12-10 01:42
Thanks  for the explanation. That helps a lot. I agree with you about EI Dlog being broken. Pink cast and banding. Also producing extremely high Bitrate files. I found old DLog at ISO500 to be OK with SD.  I Had no issues at all.

In a pinch the old D-log in h264 was fine. But had issues with banding in the skies, and a few problems with highlight encoding. The new d-log in prores is approaching what a proper log gamma should be (still not there, but I think they plans to fix it). Much better color response than the old one. Again...try the RAW d-log "trick" and see if it works...the preview looks a lot like the old D-log and it may be something you can use till they get this sorted out.

Barry Goyette Posted at 2017-12-10 10:18
In a pinch the old D-log in h264 was fine. But had issues with banding in the skies, and a few problems with highlight encoding. The new d-log in prores is approaching what a proper log gamma should be (still not there, but I think they plans to fix it). Much better color response than the old one. Again...try the RAW d-log "trick" and see if it works...the preview looks a lot like the old D-log and it may be something you can use till they get this sorted out.

Thanks I'll try that. I'm not an expert on Codecs/Gammas Etc. Etc. but the bitrate of the files that the new
DLog is creating is huge. After ISO was locked at 500 in the old DLog  there was a lot of information from DJI about why that had happened but with this new EI setup we don't seem to be getting the same level of support.

fansdb6ff1f7 Posted at 2017-12-11 01:36
Thanks I'll try that. I'm not an expert on Codecs/Gammas Etc. Etc. but the bitrate of the files that the new
DLog is creating is huge. After ISO was locked at 500 in the old DLog  there was a lot of information from DJI about why that had happened but with this new EI setup we don't seem to be getting the same level of support.

Hmm...I'm looking at some of my clips taken pre/post EI firmware, and I'm not seeing any difference in data rate. UHD 30p approx 1GB for 1:20...or 12.5 mB per sec (actually getting much lower rates in static studio tests of EI mode, but I think theres some VBR encoding going on, so that doesn't surprise me.)

Barry Goyette Posted at 2017-12-11 09:07
Hmm...I'm looking at some of my clips taken pre/post EI firmware, and I'm not seeing any difference in data rate. UHD 30p approx 1GB for 1:20...or 12.5 mB per sec (actually getting much lower rates in static studio tests of EI mode, but I think theres some VBR encoding going on, so that doesn't surprise me.)

I'm sure you're right. As I say, I've never really taken much notice of Bitrates before as DLog was  working OK for me. New DLog definitely needs correcting. Very muddy at -3,-3,-3 on the X5s. Impossible to regain anything decent in post. Major Banding in the sky.

fansdb6ff1f7 Posted at 2017-12-12 04:10
I'm sure you're right. As I say, I've never really taken much notice of Bitrates before as DLog was  working OK for me. New DLog definitely needs correcting. Very muddy at -3,-3,-3 on the X5s. Impossible to regain anything decent in post. Major Banding in the sky.

it's broken completely. (D-log in h264) I wouldn't use it for anything until they correct whatever they did.

Barry Goyette Posted at 2017-12-12 10:40
it's broken completely. (D-log in h264) I wouldn't use it for anything until they correct whatever they did.

Good advice. The Rec709 option looks OK so I'll stick with that. It would be good if we could get some feedback from DJI that they've picked up on the problem and are working on it.

Wanted to see what the Color banding situation was like in the new EI mode. Did a comparison between normal Cinelike processing and the EI D-log at 100 iso. I matched the frames using the Arri LUT in FCPX as close as possible. Note the banding visible on my jeans and the sky. Its pretty bad...

Similar to what I've noticed. On a bright blue sky the banding was very obvious. Plus a pink cast and colour distortion similar to that on your photo on tarmac roads

Barry Goyette Posted at 2017-12-12 10:40
it's broken completely. (D-log in h264) I wouldn't use it for anything until they correct whatever they did.

Hi, Have you picked up on anything from DJI about this issue?

Why is this pink magenta cast remaining?  I'm tired of flying around with green filters.

Come on DJI, put "Tint" slider or control into GO to fix this like other manufacturers provide.

fansa84fe8a4 Posted at 2017-12-18 12:52
Why is this pink magenta cast remaining?  I'm tired of flying around with green filters.

Come on DJI, put "Tint" slider or control into GO to fix this like other manufacturers provide.

I, too, would love a tint slider! Mods: feel free to pass this suggestion along to the engineers.

DrMrdalj Posted at 2017-11-18 05:07
I kindly ask you to share with us crucial information - what is native sensitivity in EI mode  of X5s and X7.
Without such info EI mode is completely unusable and unpredictable.
Balancing sensitivity/DR/noise is.based on knowing some baseline for all of them.

Hi DJI Mindy just confirmed on another thread that The Native ISO in EI Mode on the X5s is  500

Extremely frustrating day. Flew earlier & recorded in the DLOG (h264/MicroSD). EI option and also the REC709 EI Option. Also recorded in the DCine option in standard setting. Both EI options are unusable. Filmed everything at my usual settings of -3,-3,-3. DLog is ok overexposed but won't correct properly, or when slightly underexposed produces crushed blacks. The histogram is way too narrow. Resorted to the old settings which are now inexplicably limited to Dcinelike & I think "none". DCine, produced a very unbalanced scope. Took a lot to correct & was difficult to grade. Before the latest firmware/OS updates, I could correct, grade and output to a presentable standard using a standard set of inputs that had taken months of experimentation to arrive at. (Correct, 3DLUT, Saturation, Sharpen).  This would take minutes. Happy to accept that any company would seek to  improve the imaging of their cameras but to delete what was a perfectly good setup and replace it with something that is obviously no where near ready for beta let alone general release make absolutely no sense.
And still no feedback from anyone at DJI on what is being done to fix this?  

Hello guys,

I'm new to the Inspire2/X5S so I quickly upgraded to the Cinecore 2.1 and I did not shoot so much before upgrading. As you noticed, with Cinecore 2.1 EI mode in H264 is unusable in Dlog and REC709.
So a few questions. Even in H264, was the previous D-Log usable before Cinecore 2.1 upgrade ? If so, I probably would consider downgrading if possible.
And, with Cinecore 2.1, are EI mode D-Log or REC709 usable in Prores ?

Thanks !

fansa84fe8a4 Posted at 2017-12-18 12:52
Why is this pink magenta cast remaining?  I'm tired of flying around with green filters.

Come on DJI, put "Tint" slider or control into GO to fix this like other manufacturers provide.

Yes the WB on auto is close but in manual mode with the same value it is out to lunch and needs a tint control to make white-white....

K64 Posted at 2018-1-1 15:32
Hello guys,

I'm new to the Inspire2/X5S so I quickly upgraded to the Cinecore 2.1 and I did not shoot so much before upgrading. As you noticed, with Cinecore 2.1 EI mode in H264 is unusable in Dlog and REC709.

To reply to your first question yes .. DLog locked at ISO500 was useable in h264/MicroSD. I can't comment on Pro Res as I don't use it.

K64 Posted at 2018-1-1 15:32
Hello guys,

I'm new to the Inspire2/X5S so I quickly upgraded to the Cinecore 2.1 and I did not shoot so much before upgrading. As you noticed, with Cinecore 2.1 EI mode in H264 is unusable in Dlog and REC709.

Hey,
The new El mode is working perfectly with ProRes, haven't really put it to the same test as the former CineCore footage but from what I've seen with the new footage it looks even more like good LOG.

Thanks for your feedbacks. So if I understand, we have the choice between an old firmware H264 D-Log compatible but with ISO locked to 500 or a new firmware not H264 D-Log compatible but with ISO unlocked. Great job DJI !

epicjib Posted at 2018-1-1 15:54
Yes the WB on auto is close but in manual mode with the same value it is out to lunch and needs a tint control to make white-white....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6IST4qrDDE

same problem here

K64 Posted at 2018-1-2 13:22
Thanks for your feedbacks. So if I understand, we have the choice between an old firmware H264 D-Log compatible but with ISO locked to 500 or a new firmware not H264 D-Log compatible but with ISO unlocked. Great job DJI !

Correct. Take a look at my post of 7 December "URGENT Go 4 App Video Colour Profiles Gone". New EI DLog not working with h264 has also been discussed at length by the camera experts in other posts. This subject, and the reasons for the problem get way too technical for me but the camera guys have come to the conclusion that New EI DLog is not useable with h264/MicroSD. I have found that REC709 is also unusable. Interesting to read that IE Dlog/ProRes is working OK with SSD. The problem is with the use of EI Mode/h264/MicroSD. At the moment on the I2 I am using the old settings of DCinelike but it is not as good as old DLog locked at ISO500 before Cinecore2.1. One of the reasons I upgraded from the Mavic was to be able to use a stable and solid DLog profile.  

Wihr Posted at 2018-1-2 11:29
Hey,
The new El mode is working perfectly with ProRes, haven't really put it to the same test as the former CineCore footage but from what I've seen with the new footage it looks even more like good LOG.

Thanks, that's interesting. That would appear to confirm that problems arise when the I2 capture setup is EI mode/h264/MicroSD.

fansdb6ff1f7 Posted at 2018-1-3 00:29
Thanks, that's interesting. That would appear to confirm that problems arise when the I2 capture setup is EI mode/h264/MicroSD.

Which isn't that suprising since h.264 is only a 8-bit codec, and now that D-LOG is improved to suit a more useful role in professional cinematography it has improved for the 10 and 12-bit codecs and made redundant for any less.
You don't see REDs or ARRIs shooting 8-bit either so why would the new DJI D-LOG color gammut made to be used side by side with them be expected to preform well with 8-bit anyway?

Wihr Posted at 2018-1-4 05:26
Which isn't that suprising since h.264 is only a 8-bit codec, and now that D-LOG is improved to suit a more useful role in professional cinematography it has improved for the 10 and 12-bit codecs and made redundant for any less.
You don't see REDs or ARRIs shooting 8-bit either so why would the new DJI D-LOG color gammut made to be used side by side with them be expected to preform well with 8-bit anyway?

I did not know this. Have DJI stated that DLog is now redundant for h264/MicroSD use? Because they have stated on this forum that h264 will work with EI mode DLog and REC709.

fansdb6ff1f7 Posted at 2018-1-4 08:56
I did not know this. Have DJI stated that DLog is now redundant for h264/MicroSD use? Because they have stated on this forum that h264 will work with EI mode DLog and REC709.

It's still able for use when only recording onto the microSD. D-LOG has always been kinda redundant for this. First it was a sort of gimmick to impress the professionals who needed really flat images, is my guess why it started in the first place, but as soon as the Inspire 1 RAW came along it became a pretty bland feature only used by people who had been told to use it by 'filmmakers'.

DJI released D-Cinelike for the microSD recordings, it records a bit more flat image but preserves important parts of the image for a "better" result after correcting it.
The new D-LOG is more based on the actual LOG gamma curve in 10-bit codecs like DNxHD or Apple ProRes as seen in the Inspire 2.  It also has been improved for the baked in LOG for the CinemaDNG raw recording.
Basically D-LOG became a more useable LOG curve in professional fields and thereby left the people recording 8-bit behind with the D-Cinelike, as 8-bit doesn't tend to take color correction and grading as well as 10-bit codecs.

I have noticed that the banding in rec709 and d-log shows up in EI Mode as well. If I turn off the SSD using the slider, I notice that d-log comes into the dropdown selection and the banding goes away.

fans72dc9910 Posted at 2018-1-4 17:05
I have noticed that the banding in rec709 and d-log shows up in EI Mode as well. If I turn off the SSD using the slider, I notice that d-log comes into the dropdown selection and the banding goes away.

That's interesting. Can I ask what tablet you use? One of the flaws in the latest Go4 App on my Ipad Mini is that the slider that you refer to doesn't function. It's "greyed out".  This issue has been discussed elsewhere. The problem appears to be that Go4 thinks that there is an SSD on board the I2 when there is none.  So if you can turn off the SSD on your setup that's good.  On my setup I get the SSD resolution options Etc.  but there isn't an SSD in the I2. It maybe that because my setup thinks that there is an SSD on board Cinecore is sending data to the MicroSD card that an SSD can handle but a MicroSD card cannot. Pushing the envelope of my knowledge here but someone may be able to advise. Does Cinecore output a different type/quality of Dlog (for example) data to SSD than that to MicroSD?  Do'es it auto adjust  to reflect the different read speeds Etc?

Wihr Posted at 2018-1-4 13:38
It's still able for use when only recording onto the microSD. D-LOG has always been kinda redundant for this. First it was a sort of gimmick to impress the professionals who needed really flat images, is my guess why it started in the first place, but as soon as the Inspire 1 RAW came along it became a pretty bland feature only used by people who had been told to use it by 'filmmakers'.

DJI released D-Cinelike for the microSD recordings, it records a bit more flat image but preserves important parts of the image for a "better" result after correcting it.

Thanks for the explanation. So with your information are DJI working to make DLog compatible with h264 again as it did with previous DLog locked at ISO 500? or  are they going to remove it from the options, as  from what you say, it will never work properly.

fansdb6ff1f7 Posted at 2018-1-5 02:04
That's interesting. Can I ask what tablet you use? One of the flaws in the latest Go4 App on my Ipad Mini is that the slider that you refer to doesn't function. It's "greyed out".  This issue has been discussed elsewhere. The problem appears to be that Go4 thinks that there is an SSD on board the I2 when there is none.  So if you can turn off the SSD on your setup that's good.  On my setup I get the SSD resolution options Etc.  but there isn't an SSD in the I2. It maybe that because my setup thinks that there is an SSD on board Cinecore is sending data to the MicroSD card that an SSD can handle but a MicroSD card cannot. Pushing the envelope of my knowledge here but someone may be able to advise. Does Cinecore output a different type/quality of Dlog (for example) data to SSD than that to MicroSD?  Do'es it auto adjust  to reflect the different read speeds Etc?

I have an Ipad mini 2 along with the actual SSD card in the Inspire 2.

fans72dc9910 Posted at 2018-1-5 09:19
I have an Ipad mini 2 along with the actual SSD card in the Inspire 2.

Even though you can use D-log here on the MicroSD, it still clips at 95 IREs. The top range is being cut at 95 IREs for some reason. Anyway, D-Cinelike is more reliable on the MicroSD.

fans72dc9910 Posted at 2018-1-5 09:23
Even though you can use D-log here on the MicroSD, it still clips at 95 IREs. The top range is being cut at 95 IREs for some reason. Anyway, D-Cinelike is more reliable on the MicroSD.

Thanks for confirming.
New EI DLog is definitely broken and it would appear that either Cinecore or Go4 has a issue where the the I2 is booting up as if there is an SSD on board, when there is none.