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Wolfman
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I undestand the need for the NO FLY ZONE feature. It is basically protecting the innocent from those born with the "stupid" gene. These special folk perform great acts of sillines and then post their stupidity on Youtube to prove to the world just how bad their infliction is!

My question is  - "how can legal and safe operators get around this feature?"

In oz, we can fly within 3nm of a licenced aerodrome or within controlled airspace provide we have clearance to do so and make mandatory broadcasts of our ops on the necessary frequency.

Does anyone know if there will be a way to switch off this feature for those that have obtained the clearance to operate in the no fly zone?

I am hoping DJI can offer some light on the subject, one rule cerainly does not fit all. If I have a clearance to be there, then I should be able to fly. From what I can see, this option will totally remove my ability to do this.
2015-4-12
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Farnk666
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Something to watch out for Wolfman!
I have been wondering about this as well as a number of my work locations are potentially affected by the implementation of the NFZs.

If they implement some sort of override, then the challenge will be to ensure that the system works within the overall governance and regulatory structure. Not sure that the various civil aviation authorities are quite ready to extend their systems and processes to that extent just now!
2015-4-12
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vonbaron1
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I don't believe a override of any sort would be in the works and just because of the stupid gene's.
2015-4-12
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Tahoe_Ed
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There will be no override of the NFZ for the Inspire, the Naza, the Phantoms.  However it can be disabled on the A2 and was never a part of the WKM.
2015-4-12
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Wolfman
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Farnk666 Posted at 2015-4-13 09:46
Something to watch out for Wolfman!
I have been wondering about this as well as a number of my work  ...

Hi farnk, I have had numerous flights in control zones with the appropriate clearance and radio calls. It takes a bit of time to organise but it is not a huge task.

Just disappointed to find out from Tahoe's reply that a good amount of area in oz is not going to be any good to me using the Inspire......not overly joyed at this!
2015-4-12
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Farnk666
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Wolfman Posted at 2015-4-13 14:34
Hi farnk, I have had numerous flights in control zones with the appropriate clearance and radio ca ...

I completely understand Wolfman!

I am working to establish RPAS based aerial inspections for Civil Assets at work.
A number of our sites are in close proximity to these zones, so I will need to take this into account in the strategy. Perhaps the way forward is to have an alternative airframe for those locations that isn't subject to the restrictions.

Wouldn't take too many inspections to pay for an alternative bird alongside the I1 and it would be a good backup for the process anyway.
2015-4-13
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Wolfman
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Farnk666 Posted at 2015-4-13 16:27
I completely understand Wolfman!

I am working to establish RPAS based aerial inspections for Civi ...

Yes farnk,

a back up airframe is the answer BUT we should have the option to be able to fly the Inspire with the appropriate clearance.

It  is kind of getting on the expensive side to have an aircraft for controlled airspace and one for uncontrolled when the one aircraft will be suitable to do both EXCEPT for the restrictions placed on us by a company on the other side of the world.  

Unfortunately, everything can only go at the speed of the weakest link like a flotilla of ships during a war can only go as fast as the slowest one. Society in general is now held back by the thoughtless and stupid acts of the few.
2015-4-13
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Farnk666
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Wolfman Posted at 2015-4-13 16:47
Yes farnk,

a back up airframe is the answer BUT we should have the option to be able to fly the I ...

That's a bleak but sadly accurate statement mate.
But to be honest - the amount I've spent on UAV contractors over the past few years would have bought me quite a fleet!

The Inspire's positioning as the 'Prosumer' (such an awful phrase!) model means that it is inherently a compromise feature wise - in this specific case we are stuck with the NFZ function. Were I to stick with a DJI based solution for the backup bird, maybe an A2 based heavier lift platform would be a good complement to the I1 and the two could cover most use cases. Add a P3 and you'd have pretty much all situations covered!

That's a lot of cash, but I've spent more on 2 days of UAV contractors than the combined cost of a P3, I1 and S1000..

Having said all that, it's a work thing and the guys were flying some serious hardware (Microdrones MD4-1000 and Ascending Technologies Falcon 8), not the sort of thing you'd buy for a hobby!
2015-4-13
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skyvideoct
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However it can be disabled on the A2

I've been wondering the same. I've submitted my Exemption to FAA and updating my Pilot cert. in preparation. I've already deemed major airports as "don't go there", but a lot of my intended work is expected to be near smaller regionals. This is where it can get stick if the firmware is written for a total exclusion of 5nm instead of using the same methodology as written in the DJI manual. Tha manual methodology makes sense, at least to me. Comments.
2015-4-13
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michael.kolowic
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I share this concern about how NFZ's are implemented.  I have coordinated with the local FAA air traffic control tower chief, and gotten permission to fly my Inspire 1 within Class D airspace, relatively close to a large, tower-controlled satellite airport.  I have been a licensed commercial pilot for 40 years, and have also held a flight instructor certificate.  I know how to handle myself around airports, I know the federal airspace system like the back of my hand.

I totally understand a level of protection against the "stupid gene".  But DJI *must* figure out how to provide a pathway for duly authorized Inspire pilots to have full utility of their aircraft in those cases where they really do know what they're doing.
2015-4-13
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Aerographis
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An onboard GPS that can be tracked would make this a simple affair.

Edit: I think this may be an issue to solve after the FAA completes their role in certification of operators and aircraft. In the meantime, after looking at the size of the no-fly zones in relation to airports, it seems like a reasonable decision by a company who would like to stay in business.
2015-4-13
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Acidsnow
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I am also quite concerned with this, this option should only be in if beginner mode is on.   This way DJI has done their due diligence, yet pilots that have authorization to file in certain areas can . . . .
2015-4-13
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w1der
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-13 10:12
There will be no override of the NFZ for the Inspire, the Naza, the Phantoms.  However it can be dis ...

S**t ... I just realized I bought a VERY expencive TOY ...

I really need to think about that ... before investing any more money into this!
2015-4-13
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w1der
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I don't get it ...

Car manufacturers isn't doing shit to prevent cars from going over the speed limits ...
Why do the drone manufacturers have to pull this stunt?

I would be OK with a warning on the screen with a concent to continue at my own responcibility when flying into a no fly zone!
2015-4-13
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PureSQNut
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-13 10:12
There will be no override of the NFZ for the Inspire, the Naza, the Phantoms.  However it can be dis ...

Ed,

  Maybe I am just blind but I am hoping for a little more clarification on this with some of the other posts I have seen on this and other forums. Are No-Fly zones defined as ones restricted by the FAA and other major governing agencies regarding major airports, national parks, government facilities etc and/or is DJI moving to  acknowledge and adhere to personally set Nofly zones thru websites like https://www.noflyzone.org that are defined by overly sensitive people who think that every person who owns a drone is only out to invade ones personal privacy.
2015-4-13
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GB44
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I understand the idea behind the No Fly Zones.  DJI want to make sure they stay on the right side with Aviation Authorities around the globe and what better way than to impose restrictions.  DJI I believe were forced into this by the Chinese Government to enforce No Fly Zones over Tiananmen Square  and outside press taking aerial footage of the area.  This I guess must have been further enhanced with regard to other key areas in China and naturally DJI has just rolled this out for everyone in an attempt to keep on the right side of each country aviation bodies.

However, I think that if you can prove you have a commercial uav pilot license and have formal approval from respective aviation authorities to operate in a specific area this should override any restrictions by DJI.  

Each country have their own Civil Aviation Authority and they are the respective country governing body not DJI.  Therefore DJI need to respect where approvals and licenses/ permits have been obtained from Aviations Authorities, DJI should be able to provide a code Inspire Owners to unlock the restrictions and No Fly Zones on their aircraft.  By doing it this way, they maintain some safety especially for unlicensed and hobby flyers who get complacent and fly anywhere they wish or at least some do from the internet YouTube posts we have all seen.

Just my opinion though ...
2015-4-13
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Tahoe_Ed
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The A2 can disable the no fly zones and the WKM never had them.  These controllers were meant to be our Professional versions.  What we are now seeing is that the consumer products are trying to be used by "professional" users.  You are creating a difficult position for us as a company.  
2015-4-13
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Wolfman
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-14 14:05
The A2 can disable the no fly zones and the WKM never had them.  These controllers were meant to be  ...

It is not a difficult position at all Ed, give us the option to disable this “Big Brother “restriction.

I am guessing this is a DJI thought bubble and nothing that has been imposed by any aviation authority, feel to correct me if I am wrong.

What is the thought process at DJI with regards to this anyway…..do you believe that ALL your customers are going to fly in an irresponsible manner?

If DJI are worried about legal implications of an Inspire flying within 3nm of an airport, then do as acidsnow so correctly suggested and have a message box pop up saying that flight in this area requires permission, do you have it.. YES.....NO. No legal issues from that point for DJI.

If I wanted to lug an s1000 around I would. The Inspire will cover up to 80% of what an s1000 can do but is easier to transport, quicker to setup, more stable in gusty conditions and fly's with a smaller footprint which in my book makes it a far safer option.

DJI should not be placing the limitations of where we can fly without any valid reason.

Seriously Ed, do you think that every Inspire owner fly's as a hobby? So the Inspire is just a consumer product now and not for professionals?  I did not get this feeling from the DJI marketing machine when the Inspire was released.
2015-4-13
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Farnk666
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Hey Wolfman,

I know you're frustrated, but Ed can't change the situation.
Those calls are made in China.

Maybe calm down the tone a bit? He doesn't deserve the flak he's getting
2015-4-14
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lesmess
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30369701
This is why it is needed, do a internet search drone near misses. You can't take chances with people's lives/safety.
2015-4-14
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Wolfman
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lesmess Posted at 2015-4-14 17:30
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30369701
This is why it is needed, do a internet search drone near mis ...

Lesmess, as per my opening comments, this is the stupid gene in action. Anyone can behave like this with any device. The Inspire is the only UAV with this feature and it is only going to limit the people doing the right thing. Just because the Inspire will not be within 3nm of an aerodrome, it wont stop these stupid acts
2015-4-14
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Wolfman
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Farnk666 Posted at 2015-4-14 16:48
Hey Wolfman,

I know you're frustrated, but Ed can't change the situation.

Farnk, not having a go at Ed but at the logic behind this decision that DJI have made. The.frustration is at DJI. Unfortunately, Ed is the one that makes most of the representation on behalf of DJI. Hopefully you can appreciate the difference.
2015-4-14
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Farnk666
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Oh I can mate, rest assured on that.
I've been in roles like his before and it's a tough gig.

What is needed is representation from a DJI product manager or someone from the design team.
Ed is a tech support guy, loneliest job on the planet when things go sour with a product and the punters are unhappy!

Happens all the time. Sales and Marketing hype up the gear to get the lust level up and units moving off the shelves, their advertising bearing little resemblance to what was engineered by the design team and built by the production guys.

That leaves Support to sort out the mess and deal with unhappy customers. It's at this stage that the marketing/sales people disappear into the distance, never to be seen again!

When a tech fix is needed, the 'B' team get the job of coming up with the solution, usually with no involvement from the original design guys or documentation. We get delays and cost starts to shoot up. At some point along this line someone in Management starts to feel the pain and 'knee jerk' reactions are made.

Over time, things settle down. The product faults and issues slowly fade away and the customer is left with a subset of functionality that the Sales guys promised at the start.

During the process however, the Support guys feel the sharp end and themselves have 0% support from the company.
The best way for you to get the message to DJI is to return your I1 to the dealer or agent under your consumer rights as it is not fit for the advertised purpose.

When enough people have done this, the Distributors will start to scream at those in DJI who have accountability for sales numbers. Mark my words, that will get them listening!
2015-4-14
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Acidsnow
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lesmess Posted at 2015-4-14 17:30
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30369701
This is why it is needed, do a internet search drone near mis ...


These comments have no merit. That's like saying car manufacturers are going limit where your car can go for safety reasons because some people are irresponsible and get into accidents, or because people speed. There are measures to enforce this kind of stuff legally... It's called a speeding ticket. I don't believe DJI is in a position to police this for the entire planet regardless of what country the drone owner is in.

PLUS I bought this drone without this restriction, I will gladly accepted "upgrades" to firmware not downgrades, I consider this a total downgrade.  What's next DJI? Limit the distance to 100m? Why not? it's safer....

This is a total, utter disgrace and slap in the face to anybody that bought this flying camera for a professional purpose.  Congratulations we will all own a $3k toy when this firmware comes out.

Legally,  this could be considered bait and switch... I dunno about China, but here in North America this is a big deal.

OWNERS NEED TO TAKE A STAND BEFORE THIS HAPPENS. ONCE THIS FIRMWARE COMES OUT YOU HAVE TO UPDATE OR DJI WILL GROUND YOU.

I feel like owners unfortunately do not see how serious this is, but we will all regret it when it comes out, and have NO CHOICE to do anything about it.
2015-4-14
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Rockeyes
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lesmess Posted at 2015-4-14 17:30
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30369701
This is why it is needed, do a internet search drone near mis ...

Do an internet search and see how many aircraft are flown with tired, drunk, poorly trained crews (No disrespect to the good guys). How many aircraft incidences are caused by pilot error? By the logic stated it would be better by all to ban all aircraft with a pilot on board. Don't listen to that Brussels Broadcasting Crap (BBC).
I fully understand that there will be idiots that do stupid things but as the guys say there are other options and getting restrictions lifted as suggested so far have been sensible suggestions. The suggestion that the inspire is a hoby toy by a DJI rep and not for professional use, contradicts the DJI advertisements and how its portrayed to the purchasers.
I think its great that everyone throws in their ideas for better or worse you never know by doing so we might get a sensible solution that most can live with.
For those without constructive comments go here   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28778728
Someone better own up to flying this drone http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/05/ve ... ow-airport-4250169/
Sorry could not resist
2015-4-14
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skyvideoct
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Since I posted above, I have looked deeper into the repercussions of the No Fly expected to be included in the next release of all of the DJI equipment/ platforms. In the US, I now feel the implementation (my understanding) is OK and I can work inside those parameters. I also am grateful that DJI is not implementing to an absurd level here. It will be interesting to test the actual when implemented rather than speculate. The only thing that worries me is if  the reasonable becomes absurd at a later date that seriously affects the usefulness of the platform. I'm grateful for now and can only hope that reason prevails going forward.
Jay
2015-4-14
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womosky
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These comments have no merit. That's like saying car manufacturers are going limit where your car can go for safety reasons because some people are irresponsible and get into accidents, or because people speed. There are measures to enforce this kind of stuff legally... It's called a speeding ticket. I don't believe DJI is in a position to police this for the entire planet regardless of what country the drone owner is in.

PLUS I bought this drone without this restriction, I will gladly accepted "upgrades" to firmware not downgrades, I consider this a total downgrade.  What's next DJI? Limit the distance to 100m? Why not it's safer....

This is a total, utter disgrace and slap in the face to anybody that bought this flying camera for a professional purpose.  Congratulations we will all own a $3k toy when this firmware comes out.

Legally,  this could be considered bait and switch... I dunno about China, but here in North America this is a big deal.

OWNERS NEED TO TAKE A STAND BEFORE THIS HAPPENS. ONCE THIS FIRMWARE COMES OUT YOU HAVE TO UPDATE OR DJI WILL GROUND YOU.

I feel like owners unfortunately to not see how serious this is, but we will all regret it when it comes out, and have NO CHOICE to do anything about it.

+1

What we are now seeing is that the consumer products are trying to be used by "professional"

Thank you DJI! Just bought the Inspire1 4 weeks ago. And yes I am using the inspire for my work - sorry for that.  I need to record some pictures in that areas. I have clearance from authorities ATC etc... I never thought that DJI will be the problem!
2015-4-14
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trice
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Is it a fact that the Inspire and P3 are going to have the No Fly Zone "feature"?  On DJI's website, I see it listed as part of P2, but there is no mention (that I can find) that the P3 and Inspire will have No Fly Zones.  Thank you.
2015-4-14
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Rockeyes
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trice Posted at 2015-4-15 06:29
Is it a fact that the Inspire and P3 are going to have the No Fly Zone "feature"?  On DJI's websit ...

What are those big round circles on the flight app? P46 of the manual.
2015-4-14
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Wolfman
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Acidsnow Posted at 2015-4-14 21:04
These comments have no merit. That's like saying car manufacturers are going limit where your car  ...

Acidsnow.....Rockeyes BRAVO exactly the point I have been making. We as a community need to let DJI know that this is not a function we want.
In Oz, we need to be licenced to operate for commercial purposes and I an sure the USA and other places without regs will implement a similar structure. Surely providing these details should be enough to get this restriction removed.

As per my opening, can someone from DJI please indicate to us the reason for this feature.

I have owned and flown quads that are tens of thousands more than the Inspire and guess what....the Inspire overall is far better in many repsects. To be told now that it is just a toy for weekend jollies is nothing short of rediculous. As rockeyes pointed out, it certainly was not portayed as this when it was released.

So basically we now have no control over where we can launch even if we have pernission to. If DJI are willing to place these restrictions without any justifiable reasoning ( apart from controlling the stupid gene) then where does that leave us down the track....software update # 5.04.99.......no fly zones past 20m or 50' from launch due to risk of hitting endangered birds.

To re-iterate farnk666 comments, this is not directed to you Ed. I realiae you have no control over this and you are just the messenger so nothing personal mate.

With this logic DJI, why are cars not speed limited to 100km/hr. They can be very dangerous in the wrong hands. Most max speed limits are around 100km/hr yet car speedo's go well over 180+. Most people on this planet are over weight, better limit the number of fizzy drinks and choc bars they can buy.

Yes, there have been some issues with the Inspire but overall compared to what has been available to date, this is a great product. PLEASE DJI  don't control what the majority of legitimate "roffesional" owners can do with it otherwise what is the point of it.

I will be patiently waiting on a DJI response to the purpose of this fantastic feature

2015-4-14
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Wolfman
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Bang on the money wormosky!
2015-4-14
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Tahoe_Ed
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Wolfman Posted at 2015-4-15 07:19
Acidsnow.....Rockeyes BRAVO  exactly the point I have been making. We as a community nee ...

Cars typically do not have the ability to take down an aircraft.  That is the concern that DJI has.  The political and potential liability could be enormous.  You already saw the uproar that the P2 landing on the Whitehouse lawn caused.  The flight restrictions were already in place for DC.  But the Pilot choose to ignore them.  DJI just made it so the "stupid" gene could not express itself.  Right now, like or not, agree or not, this is the direction that DJI as a company has decided to go.
2015-4-15
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Wolfman
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-15 23:57
Cars typically do not have the ability to take down an aircraft.  That is the concern that DJI has. ...

Thanks for the reply Ed.

I fully understand the theory behind it BUT there would be limited liability for DJI iif that did happen.... as you put it....the Inspire is a "consumer product"

This restriction will only be of use to your worst case scenario if EVERY UAV made is only made by DJI.

As there are hundreds of manufacturers of these products now, this limitation will only be effective if every manufacturer instigates this procedure - something that we know will never happen. Also, If the concern is there, then why does it not apply to your A2 and WKM.?

A fully loaded F100 ute through a cyclone fence and on to a runway.... anything can be used to affect aircraft if that is your persuasion, cars included.

Whilst this is DJIs position, I do not believe it will make any difference to the outcome of stupid people behaving stupidly, it will only limit the operations of those using the I1 for professional purposes.
2015-4-15
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joekeantang
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-15 23:57
Cars typically do not have the ability to take down an aircraft.  That is the concern that DJI has. ...

I though that the inspire 1 was made to be more thN just a consumer drone! I bough the inspire 1 to start up a business. If this is just for consumer purposes why show the potential or take pride of the inspire1 been use with big companies OR SHOW how it was use to film a volcano for some news company. Or sport networks? I did not spend 5 k to use a drone for personal entertainment or a hobby, not trying to offend anyone for those who actually are doing this as a hobby. I am talking about my personal use with the I1.  
2015-4-15
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joekeantang
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sm====

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-13 10:12
There will be no override of the NFZ for the Inspire, the Naza, the Phantoms.  However it can be dis ...

I though that the inspire 1 was made to be more thN just a consumer drone! I bough the inspire 1 to start up a business. If this is just for consumer purposes why show the potential or take pride of the inspire1 been use with big companies OR SHOW how it was use to film a volcano for some news company. Or take pride on how sport networks are considering using them for broadcast? I did not spend 5 k to use a drone for personal entertainment or a hobby, not trying to offend anyone for those who actually are doing this as a hobby. I am talking about my personal use with the I1.  I think Dji has to come to a mutual agreement with Inspire 1 owner that have bought the inspire 1 as a source of income. Why be ok with drones on the PROFFESIONAL LINE to  fly anywhere and not have a no fly zone restriction? You should do the same with any product that comes out of DJI IF THE CONCERN IS SAFETY. There are many of us that do fly responsibly and we are been affected because of a small percentage of people out there who fly carelessly. We have invested in this product and we should have the freedom to fly it without jeopardizing the life of others!
2015-4-15
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womosky
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Right now, like or not, agree or not....

It's an honour to be your customer! Hope there will be some work arrounds to turn of this "stupid gene"!
2015-4-16
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joshuacruse
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-15 23:57
Cars typically do not have the ability to take down an aircraft.  That is the concern that DJI has. ...

Tahoe_Ed,

"Like it or not, agree or not" – this is no way to reply to DJI's customers. Such comments are considered opinionated along the lines of 'editorial', and are generally not accepted as proper 'voicing' on behalf of a company/corporation.

Could you please provide us with a VP/higher official within DJI to voice our concerns to in regards to this matter?

Thank you,

Josh C.
Owner, Phantom 1, Inspire 1, Zenmuse Gimbals
2015-4-16
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joshuacruse
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Does anyone have contact information for a higher-level contact within DJI (above customer service representatives) to speak with in regards to this issue? There should be a way to request an override for instances where such operation is legal here in the US. For instance, flying *indoors* in a sports arena that falls under a no-fly zone (like the DC zone) should certainly be permitted.

DJI would be best served to engage in an open dialogue with customers in leu of comments like 'like it or not'. Will be contacting DJI on my own in regards to this rep's behavior on this forum.
2015-4-16
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taylor2d2
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I think the bigger issue here is the bait and switch aspect.  For those of us who live within or near these overly large no fly zones, we were sold a product that did one thing and then within a few months that functionality was removed.   It seems like that wouldn't be legal practice.  If I bought a car (which I could have for the price of an Inspire one) and then a couple of months later the car manufacturer came out with a mandatory update to the car's firmware that removed the ability to drive over the speed limit... I would expect a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer for selling a product that does one thing then replacing it with one that doesn't.  They should at the very least be offering full refunds for those who bought the inspire based on the ability to actually fly them.
2015-4-16
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Tahoe_Ed
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joshuacruse@me. Posted at 2015-4-17 07:40
Tahoe_Ed,

"Like it or not, agree or not" – this is no way to reply to DJI's customers. Such comm ...

Josh,

There have been many email conversations on this issue to the highest levels of DJI.  The response remains the same.  I had this same discussion with DJI's Washington lobbyist over the last three days at NAB.  It is not changing soon if at all.  If you do not like our corporate stance that is your opinion but as of this time there will be no changes.
2015-4-16
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