taylor2d2@gmail Posted at 2015-4-17 07:54
I think the bigger issue here is the bait and switch aspect.  For those of us who live within or nea ...

Taylor,

So it is your opinion that you should be able to fly over airports or Washington DC with impunity.  That is not our opinion or that of the majority of our users.  I am not sure what is your basis of the request for a refund.  You cannot do an illegal activity???

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-17 09:56
Taylor,

So it is your opinion that you should be able to fly over airports or Washington DC with i ...

It's not just airports, there is a huge convention center near the airport, if some one where to ask me to get footage inside the cone tin center I wouldn't be able to! Why because you have decided to choose where we can fly and where we can't fly. Another example I won't be able to fly my inspire 1 near a harbor just because you guys decided to make it a no fly zone because the stadium and the museum is near by! Why can't it b just that area not the entire surroundings  it's ridicules you guys are worse than the faa

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-17 09:56
Taylor,

So it is your opinion that you should be able to fly over airports or Washington DC with i ...

It's not just airports, there is a huge convention center near the airport, if some one where to ask me to get footage inside the cone tin center I wouldn't be able to! Why because you have decided to choose where we can fly and where we can't fly. Another example I won't be able to fly my inspire 1 near a harbor just because you guys decided to make it a no fly zone because the stadium and the museum is near by! Why can't it b just that area not the entire surroundings  it's ridicules you guys are worse than the faa

As an Inspire owner I'm very conflicted about this.  I absolutely see Tahoe's position.  If an Inspire gets sucked into the engine of an A320 or 767 within a mile or so of an airport and causes a crash, I would expect INSTANTANEOUS legislation - passed and signed, very likely, within 48 hours - making UAS illegal throughout the entire USA.  We would then go through years of litigation, legislation and rulemaking before, little by little, the market began to open up again.  You can have all the disclaimer screens you want, making it the responsibility and the fault of the operator for disabling the feature.  None of it would matter.  A "drone" caused the crash of an airliner and people died.  Case closed.  DJI's market would be obliterated (and disclaimer screen or not, they would likely be sued into oblivion by the airline and the estate of every lost passenger).

You can't compare this to a car, because nothing anyone can conceivably do with a car could result in immediate federal legislation outlawing all cars.  But I can ABSOLUTELY see that happening with UAS if one causes a mass casualty disaster.

On the other hand, if someone is certificated by the FAA, the tower is contacted, authorization is granted, and a NOTAM is issued (so the operation is perfectly legal and authorized), then and ONLY then, it should be possible to override the DJI-generated NFZ.  The problem I suspect is that this would require additional and rather expensive development, and there aren't enough "pro" users who need to work within NFZ's with proper authorization to warrant the cost of said development.

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-17 09:56
Taylor,

So it is your opinion that you should be able to fly over airports or Washington DC with i ...

Well... in fairness, the complaint would be that the device prevents a LEGAL activity.

It's perfectly lawful to fly a UAS in proximity to an airport with advance notice to the FAA and approval by the tower.  As with other airborne activity near an airport, if it's authorized, the FAA issues a Notice to Airmen ("NOTAM") for the vicinity of the operation, advising as to the area where operations will be conducted and the block of altitudes where they will occur.  Once approval is issued, it's perfectly legal to conduct the activity.

The pushback you're seeing is that even if the FAA (or other aviation authority depending on which nation we're talking about) approves the activity, it is still prevented by the Inspire's programming, and this was not disclosed in advance so the purchaser could make a knowing buying decision.  If I was the management of, say, a sports complex in proximity to an airport (but not on any cognizable approach or departure corridor), had consulted with the FAA about the use of a UAS and had approval to operate, had bought an Inspire and placed it in operation, and THEN had it grounded due to a firmware update that introduced this issue, I would be HOPPING mad.  Wouldn't you?

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-17 09:56
Taylor,

So it is your opinion that you should be able to fly over airports or Washington DC with i ...

I have done several perfectly legal shoots in the 30 mile no fly zone surrounding DC, both indoors and with FAA permission outdoors well outside of the reach of any federal buildings.  Now those legal flights are simply shut down.  I'm not asking to be able to fly onto the White house Lawn, Just the legal use of a product that I paid a lot of money for.

I am sorry.  There maybe many exceptions where the activities may be legal and lawful.  However, as a company to try and keep track of those few exceptions is not something that we can do.  That is why there is a blanket NFZ.

Not looking for 'sorry'

looking for a solution.... unless there was a company wide buy back policy for people affected.  Class action suit seems to be the best solution.  
I'm bout to miss out on work because my $3k product no longer operates, due an intentional action by the manufacturer.

A  quick google search on class action yields this:  

Class actions are lawsuits brought to protect many people who have been impacted by the same problem. For example, a class action lawsuit could be brought on behalf of everyone who:

Bought the same defective product,
Was billed for the same unauthorized charges,
Saw the same deceptive advertising, or
Worked at a company that violated employment laws.

To all Inspire 1 owners....There is a solution to fly in the NFZ.  I by no means condone nor indorse flying in NFZ's but for those who are responsible and aware of the liabilities that may follow - See Below

- Turn on remote and place in ATT mode (Note: Do not connect Mobile device to remote)
- Turn on I1
- Fly

For those you that wish to fly in NFZ's with live video.  You will have to use the HDMI out port for FPV, Video and Photography.

Good Luck!

DCAerials Posted at 2015-4-18 05:00
To all Inspire 1 owners....There is a solution to fly in the NFZ.  I by no means condone nor indorse ...

Could the second (slave) controller be connected so camera control is still available, or does this bring the NFZ into operation?
Also, at some point, I feel a clever software writer could mod the firmware file to disable NFZ.

Of course, none of these workarounds would be needed if there were something in place to allow licenced fliers to operate the inspire normaly where permitted.

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-17 09:55
Josh,

There have been many email conversations on this issue to the highest levels of DJI.  The r ...

How accurate is the "no fly zone" feature?  specifically, I live 1 mile out of the no fly zone.  will my bird accidentally be forced to land if i am a mile, or even a quarter mile out of the no fly zone?  thanks.

I don't get it, how it is ok to fly the s1000 in NFZ but not the inspire? If it's a safety issue what's the difference?
We all see an heared Dji spoke about the inspire many times as a professional tool, even lately when compared to the P3 dji said the the Inspire made for more professional use.

The issue here is that DJI can't decide suddenly the we can or can't do things with our drones. If they had told us before purchase that they will be limited the fly zone we had the chance to not spend so much money.  This is my drone and not Dji's.  If Dji want to help prevent stupidty so they should alert a stupid pilot that he is fly to hight in NFZ or limit the fly hight possible in NFZ, if the pilot will behave responsibly Dji can't provide the local police for a dangerous pilot and provide them the proof.

I know that in my country the police also bought several Inspire's and heared that Dji will provide them a FW without NFZ.

Don't worry ...

Terrorists will soon find theese UAVs useful some how ... And after that cops and military will start shooting them down on sight ...
Airports will have "tower defence" picking out anything suspicious ... The no fly zones wont need "software protection" then
Case closed!

Enjoy your toys as long as you are able ...

I have formally requested a refund.  I can no longer fly without driving approximately 35 miles from the city.  See Below:

To whom it may concern,

I purchased the Inspire 1 with the intent  onshooting aerial footage and recreational use.  As of today yesterdays firmware update, I can no longer fly without flying approximately 35 miles fom my home address because of the NFZ feature.  I am requesting a refund.  Please advise.

Dji don't fly in NFZ! Your latest actions are step after step to the wrong direction.

This is a new market and there will be more options soon enough. If Dji want to keep it's place as the market leader they should think about how their action influence us-the customers! Features that we supposed to have by now for better flying ability suddenly not sure to be arrive at all, and instead we get features that prevents us from flying pushed ahead. Dji you really don't want us to stay as costumers? Speak good about our investment at your products?

DCAerials Posted at 2015-4-19 02:15
I have formally requested a refund.  I can no longer fly without driving approximately 35 miles from ...

I would just call DJI, who is going to be driving 35 miles just to fly the inspire 1???? Thats nuts! they should refund you and not give you any problems. If they do i would find a lawyer. Its ridiculous... find another Drone company that might not be limittating you from flying. I think This whole new NFZ its crazy!!

DCAerials Posted at 2015-4-19 02:15
I have formally requested a refund.  I can no longer fly without driving approximately 35 miles from ...

Why do you have to drive 35 miles?  I thought the NFZ were only 5 miles from the airport and 15 from the capital?  

Is the NFZ feature accurate?  According to the map on DJI's website, I am 1 mile outside the NFZ.  Will I be able to fly my drone or am I too close (even though I am definitely 1 mile outside the circle shown on their website)?

Thank you.  

DCAerials Posted at 2015-4-19 02:15
I have formally requested a refund.  I can no longer fly without driving approximately 35 miles from ...

Let me know what they say, I do think that a class action suit would be more effective, but I would settle for a full refund for the inspire and extra batteries.

Ed...I feel for DJI on this one...It highlights how touchy and political the UAV issue really is...DJIs choice to impose the No Fly Zones  is the prudent move...I have talked with regulators here in Canada  and they are testy to say the least on drones...They are aviation people with huge responsibilities and do not appear to sympathetic for our industry...It was spelled out real early that if you don't like living under a lot of rules and regulations then you might want to find something else to do...Now with the next generation of drones coming out with advanced electronics and photography capabilities all within a $1000.00 to $1500.00 price point there will be a huge increase in folks flying them which will make them even more nervous about drones... Right now is a critical time that could go either way depending on how the customer base behaves...Good Luck to all of us...

Wildcat Willie Posted at 2015-4-20 05:05
Ed...I feel for DJI on this one...It highlights how touchy and political the UAV issue really is...D ...

You are correct.  The P3 is about to ship with a price point of $1000-1300.  It can fly 2K or more.  With the expanded capabilities of the P3 how many will abuse them.  I wish we did not have to take these measures.  But we have too many users that have more money that common sense.  This is not only with DJI but other products.  

w1der Posted at 2015-4-19 01:33
Don't worry ...

Terrorists will soon find theese UAVs useful some how ... And after that cops and  ...

It isn't only the 'stupid gene' (or even mostly the 'stupid gene') that I think companies like DJI are worried about but the 'terrorist gene'.  We, as responsible UAV pilots should think about that as well.

I am really conflicted about the people who are directly affected by these NFZs and hopefully there will be a work around that terrorists can't use or a refund for those of you who are completely out of business but (and God help me if this gives them ideas) if planes are brought down all over the world in one act of violence how are we going to feel about our 'need to fly' in NFZs?

Is it just me or have you guys noticed that the circles around the NFZs seems small than they use to be.

http://www.dji.com/fly-safe/no-fly

Sorry meant     smaller

Is it just me or have you guys noticed that the circles around the NFZs seems smaller than they use to be.

http://www.dji.com/fly-safe/no-fly

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-22 02:59
You are correct.  The P3 is about to ship with a price point of $1000-1300.  It can fly 2K or more ...

Pandora's box is open...Its amazing the people that come up to talk to you...Yesterday I was out in the middle of nowhere in the Alberta badlands and the diversity of people seriously interested  was amazing...Two farmers one who wanted his home filmed when it cleans up a bit after winter...Another interested in a birds eye view of his crop at different stages...A municipal Construction forman interested in Civil construction applications...I actually flew a section of road for him and an Water Engineer interested in flying a flood plain for him next week...Wow...all in one day and not soliciting a single one...What it does do is give me hope that there are a lot of good honest people out there with different legitimate applications ...I think they greatly outnumber the nut-bars who fly foolishly...The only problem is it will only take one or two fools to cause the rest of us a lot of harm...

Wildcat Willie Posted at 2015-4-23 02:37
Pandora's box is open...Its amazing the people that come up to talk to you...Yesterday I was out i ...

I hope you make a lot of money.  Your presence deserves it.  Have fun.

You know, I agree and understand the idea behind the No Fly Zones and how safety should be everyone's number one priority without the question. But in many cases, you can not use your inspire 1 at all. I can not use this device that i spent almost 4000$ on, in my own back yard which is a huge open space because it is in Potomac,  MD.The nearest house to me is around 5 miles away ( so you get how big my lot is)
DJI had to figure these things out before selling a product and making them available to everyone regardless of their knowledge about flying or related issues and decided to have an update and change things on people out of no where and without any warning.
They could have come up with a policy on the screen as a warning if you were to enter in the areas that you are not supposed to be rather than taking the options out for everyone, beginners or professionals!
SO basically i bought a very expensive paper weight.
very disappointing .

I received a reply from DJI and will keep you posted.

On Apr 19, 2015, at 4:09 AM, DJI, Sales <sales@dji.com> wrote:


Hello,

Thanks for using dji Inspire.

To increase flight safety and prevent any unwanted flight incidents in restricted and sensitive location, DJI introduced No-fly-zone feature. 

If your home is near to an airport or vital locations like military camp, it's highly advisable for you to use this feature, just to ensure safety to others and comply with local regulations.  

If not, please email us your home address, and we will see what we can do. 

Thank you 




Best regards,

DJI Sales Dept.

DCAerials Posted at 2015-4-24 23:11
On Apr 19, 2015, at 4:09 AM, DJI, Sales  wrote:

Hmmm.....now THAT is interesting.  It sounds like a good solution to allow people who are GPS locked due to unfortunate circumstances to get back in the air.  Good for them!

It was mention earlier in the post that this product (the inspire one) was to be used on a consumer level and the professionals have taken it upon themselves to use it in their everyday work flow.  When looking at the advertising from DJI I was never under the impression that this was to be used by ONLY consumer level operators.  With quotes like "A COMPLETE READY-TO-FLY SYSTEM Everything you need is included and ready to go, offering you a complete aerial filmmaking tool in one box. Just add your mobile device or other screen to use the live HD view." I was lead to believe that this model was to be used by professional operator or at the very least users on the pro-sumer level.  Lets face it, yes there are idiots out there that have more money they want they know what to do with it, but at a $3000-$4000 price tag you have put yourselves into the professional market if you like it or not.

I am requesting a refund or DJI will be called upon in Small claims court.  

Dear Veney,

You are in the area of white house where within 20KM will be the NFZ. You can fly which not reach the White house zoon.

Thanks



Best regards,

DJI Sales Dept.

DCAerials Posted at 2015-4-25 02:59
I am requesting a refund or DJI will be called upon in Small claims court.

I AM IN AS WELL!

I purchased my Inspire March 14th.

We live within a few blocks of CIA headquarters and limited our flying to parks and schools in McLean VA with lots of open spaces. Our family fell in love with the 4K video features that  when we accidentally flew the Inspire into a tree and had to send it in for repair we decided to purchase a Phantom for practice so we would be more skilled when our Inspire returned,

During these few weeks the NFZ was implemented for the DC area and now have to drive 40 minutes out to the Reston VA area and look for places to practice which reduces our use of these drones to practically zero. The DJI 15 mile radius of Washington DC encompasses nearly the entire metropolitan area. Look at it on the map. http://www.dji.com/fly-safe/category-mc

I am very upset about this and and from the comments from DJI on this forum it is clear they have no intention of offering relief to DC area customers.  

With so many of our products being made in China, the US government should require that they not place any software in them to disable our products. This is a free society, I think,  and if the government wants to set these limits they should do so, not some company out in China.

If anyone is interested in a forming an activist group against DJI's position on this I would be interested in joining.

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-4-13 10:12
There will be no override of the NFZ for the Inspire, the Naza, the Phantoms.  However it can be dis ...

There shouldn't be. I am in total agreement with DJI policy. I live outside of the fly zones and yet the Air Guard flies over my house in the country with C 130's and Blackhawks training in the area. Sometimes the C 130's are about 200 -300 feet above ground avoiding Radar. When I hear them in the airI don't even bother with the thought of putting the Phantom or Inspire in the air. I would definitely lose in a collision but the main issue is that the Pilot may try to make a quick maneuver to avoid a collision and tragedy may strike. I don't want any part of anything like that.

watson101 Posted at 2015-4-27 01:21
I purchased my Inspire March 14th.

We live within a few blocks of CIA headquarters and limited our ...

Watson, you do understand that where you want to fly is not just a DJI NFZ but regulated airspace that has been that way for some time.  Even if we did allow our craft to fly, you would be in violation of the existing law.  It is not just us, they are federal regulations around airports etc.  

Gentlemen and Ladies

It is about time that we pilots understood that we are not flying toys. They are Remotely Piloted Aircraft and must comply with the rules of the air implemented by the respective national authorities (US FAA, UK CAA, etc). If you study any low level aeronautical charts there are many areas (airfields, nuclear plants, sensitive locations) that ALL aircraft are barred from entering.  These restrictions typically apply from the surface upwards. With drones becoming the must have thing and increasing reports of irresponsible use, companies like DJI are obliged to stop fools and legitimate users from flying where they should not.  If the pro-user is seen flying legitimately in a restricted area then it will encourage the ignorant and less informed to ask why cannot also fly there.  The simply answer is to move or travel to where there are no restrictions - there is a lot of unrestricted airspace out there to enjoy our flying.

jon@thefullers. Posted at 2015-4-18 18:00
Could the second (slave) controller be connected so camera control is still available, or does this ...

So true the FAA needs to put a license structure in ASAP as this is total BS by DJI It reminds me of gun control the more restrictions you add only effect the guys flying legally and safe. The idiot who lands on the White House will always exist. I don't think that many people buying $3000 UAV's are in the lets go out and reck our UAV and fly it illegally category.

DCAerials Posted at 2015-4-24 23:11
On Apr 19, 2015, at 4:09 AM, DJI, Sales  wrote:

Any update?
were you able to return it?  

Scotflieger Posted at 2015-4-27 03:57
Gentlemen and Ladies

It is about time that we pilots understood that we are not flying toys. They a ...

I am glad this thread is bringing out both sides of the story.

At the end of the day though, DJI are simply covering their legal liability in the worst case scenario occurring.

Unfortunately, as per my opening post comments, YOU WILL NEVER EVER be able to safely regulate against the stupid gene. The idiot with his parrot at the white house is testimony to this.

What does amuse me though is that as an American, you are free to go down to Wallmart and buy a hire powered gun with ammo and no questions asked. If I was wanting to hurt a big shiny jet, this would be my first stop. Second stop would be an s1000 - much bigger, bigger payload and NO restrictions!

The ability to legally operate in these zones with the correct permission to do so should be allowed.