Dear Pilots,

I believe this practice has been widely known and practiced for safer launching/catching (especially when your children or pets are around).
You can also use this skill to fly your drone safely on the boat or narrow spaces. I love hand launching/catching my drone because it feels great as well.
For those who did not know about this, please check out below tutorial! thank you and happy droning

Not for beginners!

I hand catch almost exclusively, however I can envision a day when the strain on the gear may cause shell or leg cracks.  

It should be noted that, for recreational pilots, hand-catching your drone is not legal in the United States.

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-11-27 12:52
It should be noted that, for recreational pilots, hand-catching your drone is not legal in the United States.

Really??!!never heard of that.. where can i find that info?

It's in Public Law 112-95 which includes AMA's Safety Code.  Technically, if you hand catch, your flight defaults to 107.  

They have to catch you though   :-)  

Just don't hand catch at an FAA BBQ and you'll probably be ok

What section is that law?

Sec 336, sorry.  

I feel so bad for anyone getting jail time for hand catching a drone....  they better have 3 ropes on their soap   

Scary right..

Thanks for sharing! But it's not good for new pilots...

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-11-27 18:25
Sec 336, sorry.

OK ... how about quoting the relevant part of Sec 336 that pertains to hand catching drones.
I've read it twice and can't find anything even close.

Sec 336 (a)(2)

It's in the AMA (aka CBO) Safety Code mentioned in post 6...

B.7.

Under no circumstances may a pilot or other person touch an outdoor model aircraft in flight while it is still under power, except to divert it from striking an individual.

https://phantompilots.com/thread ... del-aircraft.94297/

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-11-28 03:04
Sec 336 (a)(2)

It's in the AMA (aka CBO) Safety Code mentioned in post 6...

It's a huge stretch to say as you did in post #4 that
It should be noted that, for recreational pilots, hand-catching your drone is not legal in the United States.

That's an AMA rule and not a law.

The section you referred to says:
(2)  the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community- based  set  of  safety  guidelines  and  within  the  programming  of a  nationwide community-based organization;
That's not saying that AMA rules are law and to contravene an AMA rule is illegal.

I learn something new in this forum a lot! I am glad i downloaded and read most recent part 107 public law, but I can't gind anything related to hand catch either.. however, I agree this skill may not be for beginner who is just starting to fly

Labroides Posted at 2017-11-28 03:59
It's a huge stretch to say as you did in post #4 that
It should be noted that, for recreational pilots, hand-catching your drone is not legal in the United States.

I think being in Japan you aren't up to date.  

https://www.google.com/search?q= ... chrome&ie=UTF-8

http://dronelawjournal.com/model-aircraft-operations/

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-11-28 04:07
I think being in Japan you aren't up to date.  

https://www.google.com/search?q=drone+law+hand+catch&rlz=1C1AVNE_enUS623US633&oq=drone+law+hand+catch&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64l2.12042j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Where I am has nothing to do with how up-to-date I am, but I'll keep that in mind if I ever go to Japan.
And I'd still say it's a huge stretch to suggest that AMA safety guidelines have the force of law or that contravening one of their guidelines is illegal.

A breach of AMA guidelines is just that.
It's not breaking any law.

I figured you were in Japan because your info below your name says "Japan."  

I don't understand.  It's right there in the public law in plain English.  How do you define "breaking the law?"  Isn't ignoring the law breaking the law?  If the law says you're required to follow AMA's Safety Code, and you choose not to, how is that not illegal?  I don't follow you at all.  

I don't understand this insistence on Hand Catching ....

I have seen and suffered prop 'bites' - some I personally known have resulted in Hospital visits where in particular one guy - Paul - was very lucky not to have lost 2 or more fingers.

Not long ago - UK papers had a spread about a guy who hand caught his pals drone ... he's now scarred for life and lucky not to have severed tendons etc. losing use of hand.

If situation such as a boat or location dictates hand catch / launch - OK .... but why do it if location is suitable for ground launch / landing. Even ground that is uneven / sandy / long grass etc. - I carry a mat I can lay down and use that.

Yes practice the technique - but advocating it as BEST way to launch - recover - is in my mind completely wrong.

One small mistake when hand catching can ruin the rest of your life ... but that same mistake when landing on the ground could just be an error affecting drone only. I know which I prefer.

Nigel

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-11-28 04:35
I figured you were in Japan because your info below your name says "Japan."  

I don't understand.  It's right there in the public law in plain English.  How do you define "breaking the law?"  Isn't ignoring the law breaking the law?  If the law says you're required to follow AMA's Safety Code, and you choose not to, how is that not illegal?  I don't follow you at all.

AMA safety guidelines are still AMA safety guidelines and haven't been magically changed into laws.

Violating AMA's Safety Code is violating PL 112-95.  It's not magic.  

There's nothing left for me to say.  All the information is right there in front of you.  

Thanks jcaerialstudio for the video. Not my preferred or routine way of launching or landing, but in rare instances the way to go. Good instructions, especially the control insets.

Unfortunately in Courts, not only Laws are used - but also Precedents. This brings in such as AMA Guidelines.

If you have an incident that results in Court Action - and its shown that you did not follow Industry / Association / Club Guidelines - that can bring about a judgement against you even if Laws do not stipulate.

Its one good reason why I stay out of Rules and Regs arguments usually, and having been an Area Rep for UK SMAE in the past .... where we had many discussions about model incidents and repercussions. The fact of guidelines was often taken in consideration by authorities.

Ignoring Guidelines can lead to unfortunate circumstances. Guidelines are usually issued based on more realistic base than Laws ..... ignore at your peril.

Another aspect - if AMA offers Judicial Assistance in event of proceedings - do you expect them to support you if you ignore AMA guidelines ?  

Just commenting .....

Back to Hand Catching .... just remember - however you stop those motors - requires 2 - 3 seconds STATIC to confirm shutdown. A fact that guy in UK found out to his cost .....

Nigel

I learn something new here always. No more hand launch or catch I guess. NP

I am learning something new here as well

Just a silly question- how about catching a DJI Spark and turn it upside down to turn it off as I saw some videos on Youtube?

Will that be considered............illegal as well? ;)

or... how about auto landing on your palm?!!! hehehe

Whatever turns you on ....

I have mini / micro quads - multi-rotors and fixed wing models I can hand catch. I even have mini Heli's I can ...

But do I ? Why - to impress the kids ?
Here's an extreme example of what I can do with a fixed wing ....



But do I make habit of it ? No because I do not regard it as 'safe' - it was OK that day because I was completely alone at the flight site ...

There are those that do and those that don't. Each have their preference and reasons.

Mark made a point about Guidelines that others threw back at him - unfairly I think.

I made a point about precedents in proceedings and ignoring guidelines.

Everyone is entitled to opinion. Good and Bad.

Nigel

I have two boys, for me it's safer since kids always tend to run into the drone because it's cool. Pros and Cons I guess it's best for us to consider surrounding environments all the time to ensure we do not fly over any people or object that we are not supposed to.

jcaerialstudio Posted at 2017-11-28 10:52
I have two boys, for me it's safer since kids always tend to run into the drone because it's cool. Pros and Cons  I guess it's best for us to consider surrounding environments all the time to ensure we do not fly over any people or object that we are not supposed to.

Agreed .... the location and environment in dictates style and ops.

Some might ask if the Kids need instruction to avoid accidents ?  I know what it's like - have my own kids - grown up now but I remember well their ignoring Dad's requests !

I must admit that I avoid flying anything when dogs / cats / kids around unless I have reasonable assurance I can be safe.

Nigel

tha nk you for the good advice

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-11-28 06:03
Violating AMA's Safety Code is violating PL 112-95.  It's not magic.  

There's nothing left for me to say.  All the information is right there in front of you.

The FAA can't create laws pertaining to model aircraft.
They said, just fly according to the AMA safe flight guidelines
Obviously they were concerned about aviation safety etc - not the fine details of how you land or catch.
But if you choose to land/catch your own way, that's between you and the AMA.
And if you aren't an AMA member flying at an AMA site, I doubt the AMA is going to do much about it.

If you do something seriously stupid and affect aviation safety, the FAA would charge you with reckless endangerment but they are never coming after anyone about how they land or catch their Phantom.
They really couldn't care less about that and there is no law governing it.

Coming back to the starting idea of this thread: I hand catch only when needed (mountainous terrain, snow, mud, deep brush, on a boat, etc.). It is necessary in windy conditions, but that is also probably the most risky hand catch situation with gusts. However, I rarely hand launch; you can always find a way to lift off from your rucksack or a small landing pad set on a rock or something. I wouldn't recommend it for beginners.

I don't know how any reasonable person can read the information provided in this thread and conclude that hand-catching is legal.

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-11-29 03:05
I don't know how any reasonable person can read the information provided in this thread and conclude that hand-catching is legal.

We have something in common.
I don't know how anyone reading the information can make the leap to thinking that somehow being advised to follow AMA safety guidelines makes AMA safety guidelines become law.

Go and ask a lawyer what a law is.

Advised?  A rec pilot is required by law to follow AMA's Safety Guidelines.

I'm surprised at you, Labroides.  You're no different than all the others you complain about in so many threads.  I'm surprised.  And disappointed.  

Mark The Droner Posted at 2017-11-29 04:00
Advised?  A rec pilot is required by law to follow AMA's Safety Guidelines.

I'm surprised at you, Labroides.  You're no different than all the others you complain about in so many threads.  I'm surprised.  And disappointed.

You're no different than all the others you complain about in so many threads.  I'm surprised.  And disappointed.  

I'm surprised that you're surprised and I'm surprised because I thought you had more common sense.
I'm a thinker and look into things to find out the truth rather than blindly accepting whatever is said on forums.

There's a huge difference between laws and AMA safety guidelines.
And AMA safety guidelines don't magically transform into laws just because they are mentioned in an FAA document.

Whether Law or not .... ignoring Safety Guidelines can :

Cause Insurance Co. to void any claim
Cause Court to decide you are violating safe practice and find against you

This in addition to the personal risk you take in ignoring safety guidelines.

Really forget about Law or not ... we are talking about safety !!

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2017-11-29 04:12
Whether Law or not .... ignoring Safety Guidelines can :

Cause Insurance Co. to void any claim

we are talking about safety
There are hazards everywhere but we still use stairs and ladders, cook on stoves, use knives, cross the road and drive on the highway etc.
Although there are risks and these things can kill or cause serious injury, there are also mitigating procedures that can minimise the risk down to acceptable levels.
hand catching is just another.
Done wrong, there is potential for injury.
But there are ways to do it that reduce or eliminate the risk.

L - that's a poor argument to use ....... many of what you quote as risk inherent are necessary items for everyday life ... and go to any public place / workplace and see the Safety Notices for use !! I spend a lot of time with VALERO  ... you know that company down south ... PITA for guidelines .............. CROSS JUST ONE and see what happens.

Hand Catching is not in same league and is unnecessary in most situations ..... can be avoided.

My problem with OP is the statement "I believe this practice has been widely known and practiced for safer launching/catching" .... when I know of accidents from this very action ..... But I cannot think of any from launch / landing properly on ground. I object to the word 'safer' ............. we have to remember that new owners who have no experience read these posts ............. would OP or anyone want on their conscience any consequence ? I know I don't ..... so avoid risk ! Play Safe !

Nigel

solentlife Posted at 2017-11-29 07:31
L - that's a poor argument to use ....... many of what you quote as risk inherent are necessary items for everyday life ... and go to any public place / workplace and see the Safety Notices for use !! I spend a lot of time with VALERO  ... you know that company down south ... PITA for guidelines .............. CROSS JUST ONE and see what happens.

Hand Catching is not in same league and is unnecessary in most situations ..... can be avoided.

that's a poor argument to use ....... many of what you quote as risk inherent are necessary items for everyday life.
The numbers of people that die from the everyday causes I listed are staggering.
But we think nothing of doing them and risk death every day - because it is possible to reduce the risk level to acceptable levels.
It's the same with hand catching.

The word safer in the original post seems wrong at first, but he follows it with a note about flying with children or animals around and it makes sense in that context.
He probably could have worded it a little better but it doesn't make a big difference.

"Doesn't make a big difference" ??

I think most will agree that if children or animals are around that could be at risk - that flight should be resisted until situation is 'safe' .....

I have a vision in my mind ...... out there hand catching a P3 and a child or a dog harries me when worst moment ...

Sorry but observing most kids today - most dogs are better 'trained' .... we've all seen the child who is literally devoid of control - jumping to grab anything regardless of parent saying no.

And if anyone wants to argue that one - its as valid as L's risk of life situations.

My way of illustrating how the discussion can pass into wider fields ....

I still return to defend my opinion that ignoring Safety Guidelines constitutes Negligence in eyes of authority and particularly Insurance co's ... I don't care if Guidelines are Law or not ... they are there for a reason - often created out of an incident or near incident. Work in many industries - ignore them at your peril.

Nigel