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Enabling ATTI-Mode
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dedreiix
First Officer
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Hey,

is it possible to force the Spark to fly in ATTI mode?
Why? I would like to train flying in this mode in a lower height to be better prepared for cases when the drone is loosing the GPS-Signal.

Thanks.
2017-12-6
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Wachtberger
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It is not possible for Spark. The only way to obtain it for training is indoors where there is no GPS link. Practising in lower height as you intend will not fully work because VPS will be operational and stabilise the Spark.
2017-12-6
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heliman
First Officer
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No. The spark is not meant for beginners.
2017-12-6
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dedreiix
First Officer
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Wachtberger Posted at 2017-12-6 03:35
It is not possible for Spark. The only way to obtain it for training is indoors where there is no GPS link. Practising in lower height as you intend will not fully work because VPS will be operational and stabilise the Spark.

Thanks.

So I would need a "bigger" hall for training this as my flat is no option for this. :-)
2017-12-6
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Wachtberger
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dedreiix Posted at 2017-12-6 03:37
Thanks.

So I would need a "bigger" hall for training this as my flat is no option for this. :-)

Exactly. But maybe you can find a place.
2017-12-6
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heliman
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I don’t see how a bigger place will help getting it to atti mode, except by chance.
A cheap way of training is with a hubsan (x4), blade or even a nano quad.
2017-12-6
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embayweather
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I would agree with Heliman. I trained on a Syma X5. Bounces of walls and things and comes to no harm. Try a small, toy type quad first then you will not lose your precious Spark.
2017-12-6
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dedreiix
First Officer
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But I do not want to buy something to train for my Spark that has different flight-attributes. I will check if I can get into a bigger hall somewhere. There GPS will not work and I can check it.
2017-12-6
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Pedro-BR
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I can give you a hint. Once you turn your spark and RC on and they are connected don't wait for the GPS's to connect, take off right away...
2017-12-6
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Mariuss
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dedreiix Posted at 2017-12-6 04:53
But I do not want to buy something to train for my Spark that has different flight-attributes. I will check if I can get into a bigger hall somewhere. There GPS will not work and I can check it.

I have a solution regarding this. On a job last week indoors, the spark got in n out of atti mode due to sudden connection with gps. This was really difficult to predict when doing manouvers, the result was rapid speed changes and exitation of flight mode( here: tripod). The solution is covering the rear end of the spark with tinfoil.
edit: would recommend propguards though
2017-12-6
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Pedro-BR
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I can give you a hint. Once you turn your spark and RC on and they are connected, don't wait for the GPS's to connect with the aircraft, take off right away...
You'll experience some seconds of flight without GPS in ATTI mode, once GPS's are properly found by AC it'll automatically switch to GPS mode.

In cloudy days it'll take longer to find all GPS's....

Good luck and don't go to high
2017-12-6
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Montfrooij
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dedreiix Posted at 2017-12-6 03:37
Thanks.

So I would need a "bigger" hall for training this as my flat is no option for this. :-)

Your max height is limited in ATTI mode.
I believe 5m.
At least, so it says in the manual.
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dedreiix
First Officer
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So I need a large basement. :-D
2017-12-6
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heliman
First Officer
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I would also suggest using sport mode. Because it feels the closest to atti mode.
In contrast, if you are going full speed sideways in tripod mode, and it suddenly pops to atti mode,
it will reach the wall 3 meters away much faster than you thought.
2017-12-6
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DJI Elektra
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Hi, sir. Please note that spark will enter ATTI mode when there is no GPS signal. We would not recommend users fly in a place with weak GPS signal as the vision system is disabled and fails to position well. Please check the details in our manual.
ATTI.png
2017-12-8
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xfirf_
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DJI Elektra Posted at 2017-12-8 01:47
Hi, sir. Please note that spark will enter ATTI mode when there is no GPS signal. We would not recommend users fly in a place with weak GPS signal as the vision system is disabled and fails to position well. Please check the details in our manual.

Hi,

as I´ve mentioned above I would like to fly in ATTI mode in a controlled enviroment to train the behaviour of the drone without gps-assist.

Why? To be prepared for those moments when the drone´s loosing gps and starts drifting away.
2017-12-8
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DJI Elektra
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xfirf_ Posted at 2017-12-8 02:00
Hi,

as I´ve mentioned above I would like to fly in ATTI mode in a controlled enviroment to train the behaviour of the drone without gps-assist.

I see. I think you can install props guard and fly indoor. Please choose a wide place and have less things that have a bad influence on the 3D vision system.
3D VISION SYSTEM.png
2017-12-10
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heliman
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Montfrooij Posted at 2017-12-6 05:06
Your max height is limited in ATTI mode.
I believe 5m.
At least, so it says in the manual.

Where does it say that?
It might be possible using the barometer, but I doubt it does that.
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-12-10 03:41
Where does it say that?
It might be possible using the barometer, but I doubt it does that.

You won’t be able to climb above 16ft in Atti mode as there is a failsafe built in to Aircraft not to allow aircraft with weak or no gps to ascend above this height.
If you are above this height in Atti mode you can fly your craft higher.
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heliman
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Are you confirming that it actually uses the barometer to control max height in atti mode?
Or are you just guessing.
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-12-10 06:38
Are you confirming that it actually uses the barometer to control max height in atti mode?
Or are you just guessing.

Maybe if you read page 47 of your Manual ,
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heliman
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There’s nothing about atti mode on page 47.In the beginning of the manual there is:
"In ATTI mode, the Vision System and some advanced features are disabled"
I also checked the mavic manual. It does not explain it further.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      

                                       
                               
                       
               

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Niterider4
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I'm thinking an underground parking garage when there are not many cars there ...
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S.J
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what happens when i switch off the RC while the SPARK is at say, 40 meter height away from home ?

Will return home and land by itself or should switch the RC on again and get connected ??
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-12-10 07:49
There’s nothing about atti mode on page 47.In the beginning of the manual there is:
"In ATTI mode, the Vision System and some advanced features are disabled"
I also checked the mavic manual. It does not explain it further.


Again I will try to explain, if you take off in Atti mode or weak gps your aircraft won’t climb above 16ft, if you want to try it go ahead, you will read in your flight logs what’s referred to as other mode in this mode you will not be able to climb past 16ft, and yes barometer is still measuring your height from the ground and holding Aircraft s height.
I have studied many flight logs for Mavic/Spark and have seen exactly what happens, and as I say go try it and come back and let us know your findings.
2017-12-10
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Montfrooij
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heliman Posted at 2017-12-10 03:41
Where does it say that?
It might be possible using the barometer, but I doubt it does that.

A search for 'GPS Signal Weak' will get you there.
There you find the flight limits when flying in weak GPS signal.

There is some inconsistency since Spark can't turn the VPS off (at least, not that I know about), so I guess you can ignore the other figure.

2017-12-10
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hostar
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Even in atti mode it still uses vps. I tried to disable vps and stay in atti mode. I couldn’t. The drone won’t even drift in vps. I few the nano qx, so coming over to the spark was easy.
2017-12-10
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heliman
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The manual says that in atti mode the "vision system” is disabled. I can’t verify that, because I can’t set atti mode.
Ok, the barometer is used for altitude lock and limitation in atti mode.
I have not found any documentation for that barometer or how it is involved, though. Not even in the go app.
But some users have seen barometer errors, so I assume the spark has one.

// offtopic
While searching in the manual I stumbled upon this sentence (page 22):
"If GPS signal is weak, the aircraft will exit autonomous fight and return to home.”
It does not sound right. Can it find home with weak gps signal?
2017-12-10
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hallmark007
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heliman Posted at 2017-12-10 13:21
The manual says that in atti mode the "vision system” is disabled. I can’t verify that, because I can’t set atti mode.
Ok, the barometer is used for altitude lock and limitation in atti mode.
I have not found any documentation for that barometer or how it is involved, though. Not even in the go app.

You will read somewhere in the manual regarding barometer in Atti mode don’t know what page but it’s there, if barometer VPs and gps all were not working Aircraft would just fall or at least try to.

I think but I’m not sure you might be talking about gps in automatic flight , yes because gps will or is getting weak Aircraft will abort mission and RTH this is pretty sensible as aircrafts mission is based on gps so it cannot complete .
As far as I know automatic flights in dji go need very strong satellite signal so I don’t think it will wait until it sees only 6/7 satellites.
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Gunship9
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hostar Posted at 2017-12-10 12:23
Even in atti mode it still uses vps. I tried to disable vps and stay in atti mode. I couldn’t. The drone won’t even drift in vps. I few the nano qx, so coming over to the spark was easy.

Flying in ATTI mode is easy when you can see it.  I wonder how easy it is when it is tried as most Sparks are flown.  Flying ATTI when the Spark is just a dot in the distance or isn't even visible is the challenge the "it flew away" pilots face.

It drives me nuts that the Spark autobrakes when the stick is returned to neutral.  I would rather it took reverse on the stick to get it to slow and stop.  I am constantly returning to neutral too fast while thinking of giving it some reverse only to have it violently stop (noisily and earlier than planned).
2017-12-10
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Ardenno
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Gunship9 Posted at 2017-12-10 15:56
Flying in ATTI mode is easy when you can see it.  I wonder how easy it is when it is tried as most Sparks are flown.  Flying ATTI when the Spark is just a dot in the distance or isn't even visible is the challenge the "it flew away" pilots face.

It drives me nuts that the Spark autobrakes when the stick is returned to neutral.  I would rather it took reverse on the stick to get it to slow and stop.  I am constantly returning to neutral too fast while thinking of giving it some reverse only to have it violently stop (noisily and earlier than planned).

If you dont know orientation of your drone, but you are still connected (mean you can see fpv footage on your display and ac reacting on your commands) that is possible land if its clear. That is better then fly away somewhere where you wont find your drone at all.
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hallmark007
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-12-10 14:16
You will read somewhere in the manual regarding barometer in Atti mode don’t know what page but it’s there, if barometer VPs and gps all were not working Aircraft would just fall or at least try to.

I think but I’m not sure you might be talking about gps in automatic flight , yes because gps will or is getting weak Aircraft will abort mission and RTH this is pretty sensible as aircrafts mission is based on gps so it cannot complete .

The safe procedure for Atti mode is always to land as soon as possible safely.
2017-12-10
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xfirf_
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-12-10 16:58
The safe procedure for Atti mode is always to land as soon as possible safely.

Yes!

And that´s it what I would like to "train" :-)
2017-12-11
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heliman
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DJI don’t wan’t us to be prepared for when atti mode happens.
That’s why it has become a fly away mode.
2017-12-11
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_pk
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Gunship9 Posted at 2017-12-10 15:56
Flying in ATTI mode is easy when you can see it.  I wonder how easy it is when it is tried as most Sparks are flown.  Flying ATTI when the Spark is just a dot in the distance or isn't even visible is the challenge the "it flew away" pilots face.

It drives me nuts that the Spark autobrakes when the stick is returned to neutral.  I would rather it took reverse on the stick to get it to slow and stop.  I am constantly returning to neutral too fast while thinking of giving it some reverse only to have it violently stop (noisily and earlier than planned).

If the Spark "isn't even visible" then it is beyond VLOS - in many (*) countries this is strictly illegal unless you have BVLOS license. And if one does have BVLOS license, one would probably not need to ask basic questions on this forum.

Ad (*) It's tempting to write "in most countries" but I didn't actually count.
2017-12-11
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Camaro50
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hallmark007 Posted at 2017-12-10 06:32
You won’t be able to climb above 16ft in Atti mode as there is a failsafe built in to Aircraft not to allow aircraft with weak or no gps to ascend above this height.
If you are above this height in Atti mode you can fly your craft higher.

Hallmark007, help me understand this.  I am new to drones and RC in general, so I really don't understand the whole ATTI thing.  The following is something I posted in another thread.  When this situation started, my Spark was about 20 -25 ft up and roughly 20 yards southwest of where I was standing.  Then it said something about "ATTI mode" and suddenly accelerated upward and northwest at a rate of speed I had never seen before.  It was up about 100' or so before my frantic taps on the down joystick start to bring it down in a rapid dive.

Does this mean that you cannot force-engage ATTI unless below 16', but if it goes into ATTI on its own, all bets are off?

Recently.  I was flying my Spark when I suddenly got the "Atti" notification.  The Spark suddenly took a sharp right and started climbing FAST!!  I still have my Spark in Beginner Mode so I had never seen it go so fast or so high before.  I kept slapping the DOWN joystick and it came down at a severe approach angle and still at a rapid speed.  I could not control direction and it almost hit a couple cars parked in the lot where I was flying it.  When it got down to about 4' from the ground it regained GPS and I was able to land it.
2017-12-11
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Camaro50
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Camaro50 Posted at 2017-12-11 05:50
Hallmark007, help me understand this.  I am new to drones and RC in general, so I really don't understand the whole ATTI thing.  The following is something I posted in another thread.  When this situation started, my Spark was about 20 -25 ft up and roughly 20 yards southwest of where I was standing.  Then it said something about "ATTI mode" and suddenly accelerated upward and northwest at a rate of speed I had never seen before.  It was up about 100' or so before my frantic taps on the down joystick start to bring it down in a rapid dive.

Does this mean that you cannot force-engage ATTI unless below 16', but if it goes into ATTI on its own, all bets are off?

Hallmark007,

Just saw your post on another thread that actually answers my question.  Thanks all around.

It doesn’t have height limitation in Atti mode, it does have a height when taking off with weak gps which is 16ft, and if it goes into Atti mode it will continue to limit that height.
If your flying a 50ft and you go to auto Atti you can raise it as high as you want up to 500 metres or if you have set other limit.

Reason is for safety and to protect your drone.
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hallmark007
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Camaro50 Posted at 2017-12-11 06:39
Hallmark007,

Just saw your post on another thread that actually answers my question.  Thanks all around.

Yeah that’s about it, it can be important to raise Aircraft when going into Atti mode particularly if there are obstacles at the altitude you are flying at and also you have a better chance of regaining gps the higher up you are,  It would certainly be the approach I would take.
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Gunship9
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_pk Posted at 2017-12-11 05:18
If the Spark "isn't even visible" then it is beyond VLOS - in many (*) countries this is strictly illegal unless you have BVLOS license. And if one does have BVLOS license, one would probably not need to ask basic questions on this forum.

Ad (*) It's tempting to write "in most countries" but I didn't actually count.

It is illegal in most countries but it is the way drone pilots fly them.  The way drone pilots fly them as they run into US Army blackhawk helicopters, chase cruise ships, building dive, fly offshore, etc.  Much to the fury of RC model aircraft hobbyists.  

RC model aircraft hobbyists who are now being oppressed due to these dingbats and their off the shelf drones.
2017-12-11
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