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WHY ARE DJI ALLOWED TO RELEASE UNTESTED PRODUCTS
946 24 2017-12-22
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Rotor Aerial Ci
lvl.2

United Kingdom
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I'm sick of reading posts on here about people who have bought DJI products for a certain use or application that just dont do what they were designed to do.

Why are DJI allowed to release products that are obviously completely untested? Am i missing something? Surely there must be something that can be done to stop DJI releasing products that simply dont work. SDI out on cendence for example. No one was made aware that we couldnt use the SDI out on the cendence with an ipad, why is this information not provided at the point of sale? Do they think they are somehow above the law? Here in the UK the sale of goods act states that a product should be fit for purpose from the date of purchase. Why are DJI allowed to completely ignore this?

I have never experienced anything like it. I'm an avid user of DJI products but I'll be seriously thinking twice about spending any more money on their products.

The thing that annoys me the most is the fact that the DJI representatives on here mostly just apologise, say they dont know when the problem will be fixed and just expect us to wait for DJI to fix a problem that should never have arisen in the first place.

TEST YOUR DAMN PRODUCTS DJI, TEST THEM IN ALL THE VARIABLES THAT COULD ARISE, TEST THEM UNTIL THEY FAIL AND THEN TEST THEM SOME MORE, UNTIL ALL THE PROBLEMS ARE IRONED OUT....... BEFORE YOU GO AHEAD AND RELEASE THEM.

WHY SHOULD WE AS CONSUMERS BE PAYING THOUSANDS OF POUNDS/DOLLARS OF OUR HARD EARNED MONEY TO TEST YOUR PRODUCTS FOR YOU.



I have now reported DJI to trading standards and had a very interesting response from one of their representatives. I've pointed them to this forum and they are currently investigating. I've had enough. Too many problems with too many of your products, not to mention the inherently dangerous design of your inspire 2 propellers. DISGRACEFUL.


2017-12-22
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luciens
First Officer
United States
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You're not missing anything. Though I think the majority of the problems are manufacturing related. The failure rate is higher than anything I've ever seen and DJI stuff has always been like that. I still have some older copters, a couple F550's and 2 S800's. I use Wookongs in the S800's and they're really flakey, so bad that I only fly them in manual mode just to be safe (the flyaway danger is very high in GPS mode). Basically the S800's are gigantic FPV racers with analog 5.8ghz downlinks. They're actually great for that, I've looped and rolled them and they actually fly really good in manual mode, tons of power . The F550's with Nazas are pretty good too, though the Naza has it's problems and I only use them in manual mode too for safety reasons.

But I would never try to build a business of any kind that depended on DJI products - they would put you out of business before you got started. They keep crippling their firmware with NFZ's and silly things like stranding you in beginner mode if you don't login to Go 4 first and things like that on the one hand. On the other hand, their updates are infested with bugs many of them show-stopper issues that can keep you on the ground for a long long time. And the safety issues with the Inspire 2 are already becoming widely circulated... So I remain a recreational user of DJI copters only, and they're ok for that.

Apart from the introduction of strong competitors (not there yet), the only hope I could see is crackdowns by the governments of countries where their products are sold - the UK and the US, etc. If they/we start demanding a minimum level of responsiveness to problems, adherence to good safety practices, honoring warranties in a timely manner, etc. that might apply pressure to clean things up. Otherwise, our only choice is not to buy.

In the meantime, like I said, I wouldn't hang a business on their stuff. It's great technology - all they have to do is just make it work reliably before I would consider using it professionally.
2017-12-23
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Des_B
Second Officer
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United Kingdom
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I have been using the Inspire 2 commercially for the last 6 months, I have only had one problem which was  to do with unlocking an NFZ, and that was down to my own finger trouble, DJI supported me well and pointed me in the right direction to get me back on the job.

I see so many threads on this forum which allude to problems occurring after a firmware upgrade etc.  I am pretty sure the majority of users don’t have any problems.

If I see a black cat and subsequently have an accident in my car, I don’t consider the black cat to be the cause of the accident.

Nobody forces anyone to purchase DJI products. They purchase them because they are probably the best out there at the moment.



You don’t have to buy.

2017-12-23
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luciens
First Officer
United States
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Des_B Posted at 2017-12-23 10:17
I have been using the Inspire 2 commercially for the last 6 months, I have only had one problem which was  to do with unlocking an NFZ, and that was down to my own finger trouble, DJI supported me well and pointed me in the right direction to get me back on the job.

I see so many threads on this forum which allude to problems occurring after a firmware upgrade etc.  I am pretty sure the majority of users don’t have any problems.

Even if they're occasional, there are problems and then there are problems . A dodgy gimbal here and there or a firmware update that fails is one kind of problem. But seizing control of the aircraft away from the pilot-in-command and doing a completely uncontrolled autoland if a NFZ is breached, or loose props on a large copter otherwise designed for use in the proximity of persons and property for commercial purposes is another set of problems altogether . In the US, you can go to prison for knowingly neglecting something like that, or at least you used to.

But your last point is definitely well taken: not buying and going to a competitor is probably the most right thing to do. I was thinking about going commercial with a part 107 and starting a business too until I started running into the problems I have with intentional and unintentional limitations with the current DJI products. I've put that on hold until I can find a competitor with a better product or some other alternative in the meantime......
2017-12-23
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dan_vector
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United Kingdom
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Des_B Posted at 2017-12-23 10:17
I have been using the Inspire 2 commercially for the last 6 months, I have only had one problem which was  to do with unlocking an NFZ, and that was down to my own finger trouble, DJI supported me well and pointed me in the right direction to get me back on the job.

I see so many threads on this forum which allude to problems occurring after a firmware upgrade etc.  I am pretty sure the majority of users don’t have any problems.

Yes I agree. If you take the thousands (10's of thousands?) of I2 units sold around the world and then see how many posts on here with the issues it does go to show that the vast majority of people are happy with DJI products. If you open it up to the amount of Sparks, Mavics, P series drones out there - it must be in the millions by now? I do think that most people are happy.

HOWEVER, The I2 in particular has a major design flaw in it's prop/prop attachment design which many of the more experienced pilots/engineers on this forum will attest needs to be addressed which it isn't being. Certainly not satisfactorily.

I don't agree at all with the OP. Such a statement is completely unwarranted and unfounded. Of course DJI test the product before it goes into mass production. However with all products around the world and in particular something as complex as the I2 the REAL test happens when a product is released into the wild. Only when a product goes mainstream will you find certain issues, I mean its very difficult to make a product idiot/human proof!

Us brits do like to have a moan every now and then..... Sorry!
2017-12-23
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flighttime1
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United States
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The phrase is, cutting edge technology. There is no question that is what defines DJI and all their products. The bane of that type of business is the conflict between the marketing and engineering departments. When millions of dollars are at stake, the marketing department will always win. I agree with Dan. The percentage of problems is very low, based on what I've seen in the field, and in my opinion, quite a few of those problems are what I would call, pilot error. Saying that you haven't started a business because of DJI quality is great and the rest of us who have somehow managed to deal with the problems thank you. ;-)
2017-12-23
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Elektrica
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They have pretty amazing products with some issue, just like every other brand. I've had a ton of DJI products and I still love them. I had issues here and there, but I am still a SUPER HAPPY client. Nothing else on the market makes such a complex, easy to use and sophisticated array of drones. I am checking for new products on a weekely basis on the DJI website. Like I said before, Samsung made exploding phones, Apple flawed antennas and now they just got caught throtthling their iPhones. The list goes on and on.These are amazing flying machines with gorgeous cameras. Yes, the I2 has an issue with the rotors, but we can also swap them more often. The I2 is a complex machine that requires more maintanance. On the other hand, the P4P is just wonderful, always a pleasure to use, very few issues and so is the Mavic. I just could not get myself to use the Spark.
2017-12-23
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luciens
First Officer
United States
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flighttime1 Posted at 2017-12-23 11:41
The phrase is, cutting edge technology. There is no question that is what defines DJI and all their products. The bane of that type of business is the conflict between the marketing and engineering departments. When millions of dollars are at stake, the marketing department will always win. I agree with Dan. The percentage of problems is very low, based on what I've seen in the field, and in my opinion, quite a few of those problems are what I would call, pilot error. Saying that you haven't started a business because of DJI quality is great and the rest of us who have somehow managed to deal with the problems thank you. ;-)

Better you than me to go through the time, cost and effort it and get it working - I'll get back in just as soon as you all work it out for me .

But in all seriousness, my P4P was defect free out of the box and is a fine copter. And I do have to give credit where it's due on the overall designs. If you can get hold of a good one without defects anyway, their designs are pretty remarkable in what they can do....
2017-12-23
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DTK
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1943159 ft
Australia
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Most people buying DJI products are geeks and technology admirers. There is no doubt that people are loving their technology advancement. As the previous poster said, DJI is the leader in this field and there is still no real and close competitor out there. Sure, a lot of people are happy with DJI 's products and they have not experienced any issues "so far". Or they are willing to hack it to fix any issues they are presented with while using the drones for their projects. However, DJI as a resource rich and matured listed company now, it has to respond with users' complain. It needs to respond to any issues in a responsible, prompt and transparent manner. As the other posters here say, there is only a very limited/small no. of products that are defective or otherwise, DJI should respond to their claims and replace or deal with the issues in a positive manner. There is no excuse as reputable company if they are not dealing with users' complaints or claims. Users frustration is lack of response/slow response in dealing with their complaints or claims. The lack of response/ slow response/ unreasonable response are reasons for many negative sentiments shown in the forum. DJI, don't seem to respond appropriately to save their reputation, or do they care at all?

Everyone will base on what they see and experience on whether to continue to buy any DJI products. I am definitely one of them, having first bought their Osmo Pro then Inspire One. Then I frequent this forum and see so many issues and wonder some issues could linger on for months if not years. For me, I was disappointed after spending money on Osmo Pro, not that I have not done tons of research before my purchase decision. I have not had any big issues since owning and using Osmo. However, there is a lot issues that one reasonable user will expect for owning a commercial product like Osmo. Obviously you compare with an equally price camera. People will give them the benefit of doubt if there are some issues. However, customers will be disappointed or angry if some known issues are not resolved and dragged on for years. So the focus is whether DJI has met customers reasonable expectation.

Since then, I am always mindful of what I see for any DJI new product and new firmware. One sure thing I do is not to be the first one to use their product not even my life is not dependent on it. It is only a hobby and definitely I don't want to spend my time getting angry or feeling helplessness seeing any product issues.

Don't shoot me, I am only a messenger.
2017-12-23
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RichJ53
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I agree with DTK and Elektrica  points of view.

I have had some minor disruptions from my DJI drones but for the most part they work well.  As hardware improves so must the software and the battle goes on as we move forward. I am very happy with my DJI drones and agree that some things could be made better. Until another company comes along that will challenge the technology and cost....  it is what it is.


Merry Christmas guys
Rich
2017-12-23
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Farnk666
Captain
Flight distance : 1711394 ft
Australia
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DJI's Hardware is usually solid, it's the app/firmware software side of things that continually fails.
Support is usually less informed and knowledgeable than the User base - and anything stated publicly here or on the website is so subject to corporate 'filtration' so as not to imply or admit anything could ever possibly be wrong.

This is because DJI is 100% entirely sales driven.
2017-12-24
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unstoppable
lvl.3
Flight distance : 1039029 ft
Taiwan
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I am also unhappy about this whole situation. I spent 10K USD on something that can fell from the sky at anytime. This is beyond ridicolous.
2017-12-28
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Mark Guille
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unstoppable Posted at 2017-12-28 06:13
I am also unhappy about this whole situation. I spent 10K USD on something that can fell from the sky at anytime. This is beyond ridicolous.

So you are complaining about there being a possibility that something could go wrong? Dude! Have you got nothing better to do? For real?  Bitching about issues that you don't have but have heard other people may have had? Today, my friend, I have heard it all! There is some serious SH#'T going on in this world but from reading your posts, I want to jump in my space rocket and come live on your planet, cuz obviously you ain't got nothing bad going on up there, Jesus man, how old are you even, are you retarded?

FFS

Mark G.
2017-12-28
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unstoppable
lvl.3
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Taiwan
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Mark Guille Posted at 2017-12-28 11:35
So you are complaining about there being a possibility that something could go wrong? Dude! Have you got nothing better to do? For real?  Bitching about issues that you don't have but have heard other people may have had? Today, my friend, I have heard it all! There is some serious SH#'T going on in this world but from reading your posts, I want to jump in my space rocket and come live on your planet, cuz obviously you ain't got nothing bad going on up there, Jesus man, how old are you even, are you retarded?

FFS

Mark, with all respect, are you a troll?
2017-12-28
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djiuser_GKuYgZx
lvl.1
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Thank you for reporting DJI. I bought an Inspire 1 v2 a week ago and I’ve had problems with the image transmission out of the box.
2017-12-28
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Rotor Aerial Ci
lvl.2

United Kingdom
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dan_vector Posted at 2017-12-23 10:55
Yes I agree. If you take the thousands (10's of thousands?) of I2 units sold around the world and then see how many posts on here with the issues it does go to show that the vast majority of people are happy with DJI products. If you open it up to the amount of Sparks, Mavics, P series drones out there - it must be in the millions by now? I do think that most people are happy.

HOWEVER, The I2 in particular has a major design flaw in it's prop/prop attachment design which many of the more experienced pilots/engineers on this forum will attest needs to be addressed which it isn't being. Certainly not satisfactorily.

Please explain to me how you think my comments are unwarranted and unfounded??

First off, I've owned dji froducts for years, I have an Inspire 1, Inspire 1 pro, Inspire 2, osmo,  cendence and CrystalSky.


Upon purchasing the Cendence I found there was a comparability issue between the Cendence and the original Inspire controller...this was not caused by human error on my part...this was caused by a software issue and this problem should have been discovered if...as you say...DJI test their products extensively before release. As far as I'm aware I was the first person to have this issue...DJI didn't know about it because clearly, the product had not been tested in all the variables. So therefore....the product was UNTESTED.

All DJI could say was that there would be a firmware update to fix the issue. I'm sorry, but as a multi million or even billion dollar company, surely DJI have the resources in place to test this before they shipped the controllers, Its not hard is it?? Took me two minutes to realise there was an issue.

If your going to charge £1000 for what you say is a professional controller, you'd at least test the thing first to make sure it worked...the fact you think differently is frankly laughable.


Granted these are complex pieces of kit, I know that better than most as I work with them daily. But saying that, a car is a complex piece of machinery, if you bought a new car, sat in it, turned the key and nothing happened, would you just accept that it's a complex piece of machinery and then get the bus home? I don't think so. You'd kick the F**k off, and quite rightly so!

So don't give me the spiel that these are complex pieces of kit. If DJI are selling something, designed for a certain job, we as the customers should expect that what we buy works straight away. Not after we've told DJI there's a problem with it, that's what testing is for!

All the people on here sticking up for DJI and saying that's just the way it is are clearly diluded or have some form of  objectophila towards there drones.

The fact of the matter is that DJI are selling these products worldwide, through distributors, online and in store., not down the local market amongst the knockoff trainers and illegal DVD sellers. There are laws in place to protect our consumer rights, which, at almost every turn DJI are completely ignoring.

DJI make amazing products, but there only amazing when they do what they're supposed to do, which quite often is not the case.

But yeah, carry on defending that worldwide corporation. I'm sure they'd be there to fight your corner should you kill someone because of their defective Inspire 2 propellers......NOT!








2018-1-1
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fansdb6ff1f7
Second Officer
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United Kingdom
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Rotor Aerial Ci Posted at 2018-1-1 05:30
Please explain to me how you think my comments are unwarranted and unfounded??

First off, I've owned dji froducts for years, I have an Inspire 1, Inspire 1 pro, Inspire 2, osmo,  cendence and CrystalSky.

I totally agree with this post. The I2 is advertised and marketed as a professional tool. Not a hobbyists plaything. Take a look at the DJI I2 advert vids. Particularly the film they made using I2's only. The guys making the film presumably are  movie making pro's. It is really farcical. The launch day presentation where they filmed live? "Oh we'll need to postpone because we just downloaded the latest firmware now the cameras won't work and the things are wobbling around to the point where the guy in the helmet can't hand catch it. Oh yes and we need to take time to cut up battery boxes to fix the prop rattles". Watching those adverts are what persuaded me and presumably others to invest in this thing as a reliable PROFESSIONAL tool for business use. Tens of thousand pounds later and I'm reading on here that the I2 isn't actually a pro tool?     
2018-1-1
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fans37898345
lvl.2
United States
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Des_B Posted at 2017-12-23 10:17
I have been using the Inspire 2 commercially for the last 6 months, I have only had one problem which was  to do with unlocking an NFZ, and that was down to my own finger trouble, DJI supported me well and pointed me in the right direction to get me back on the job.

I see so many threads on this forum which allude to problems occurring after a firmware upgrade etc.  I am pretty sure the majority of users don’t have any problems.

I agree that you don't have to buy.  Unfortunatley DJI has led the general public to believe that their products (in my case: I2, X5s, Cendence, and CSU) are the perfect solution for their business needs and are functional enough to get the job done. A minimum level of functionality should be expected at all times, even with future updates.  
Although this is still a young industry which is steadily advancing/improving, there seems to be an attitude at DJI that it's ok to repeatedly release "unfinished" products to the general public for further testing.  I believe this might be acceptable if buyers were simply made aware by DJI that this product requires more testing and may not be fully functional for its intended use and is considered "experimental".  Also, at any moment the product may be rendered useless for an undisclosed period of time due to "updates" with unforeseen consequences.
Never have I purchased an item or system of any kind which seemed to promise so much and yet lack a sense of finish. This would be like going to the Auto Mall and purchasing a new truck for your construction business.  All the videos and info you've seen regarding this new truck, show it performing everything you want it to do and the company goes on and on about how it will get the job done, even going so far as showing you finished productions it performed in.
You get your new truck home and familiarize yourself with it and realize there is a lot more to it than your last truck and you get excited about the potential it has to improve/build your business. (Don't forget about all the extra $$ you invested in options to make it PERFECT) Lots of cool functions and abilities!!!
And then....
Ooooh, exciting..."my first update"!.....  I have to rotate my tires? I've only driven it around the block!  Why does the parking brake not release now? Oh, my seatbelt wasn't fastened! Oil change already? Why does it say I can only use premium gasoline now and my windows only roll down on weekends. Will not exceed 45 mph if you refuse to update and therefore you can't take it on the freeway.
Suddenly I have a very expensive paperweight, which does nothing to help complete tasks reliably.
As excited and happy as I am when this aircraft and components work together as expected, I don't feel it is frequent enough or reliable enough to justify the cost.  I expected some growing pains and some limitations but I didn't expect this level.  
I can honestly say, I feel I am too deep to turn back but would consider heading a different direction if I had an option for a refund.
I don't dislike DJI products, but I do feel they are misrepresented and way overpriced for the level of product testing/troubleshooting a buyer must face.  I had originally thought of doing a custom build but I was convinced that DJI had the better solution  which for similar money wouldn't have as many headaches.  Now, I believe that perhaps I chose wrong.

2018-1-2
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Farnk666
Captain
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OP, you seem to be under the impression that this industry is regulated somehow.
There are no internationally set engineering standards for UAV, no independent Quality assurance processes or bodies and no international laws or treaties covering such manufacturing.
To your example of the automotive sector, each country has documented minimum engineering standards that products must comply with for sale, this is not the case with UAV.
To answer your original question, there is no-one to either allow or forbid DJI to do anything.

The only factor DJI is affected by is sales. As long as people buy the product, they will continue to sell it.
Until a competitor arises who can challenge DJI on price and functionality this will be the case and nothing will change.

The quality and feature issues you mention are commonly reported with each generation of DJI product (and to be fair, the same could also be said of other UAV manufacturers!) many of which are/were also marketed as 'professional' platforms and were very expensive.

The only answer is to ignore the marketing, and make a purchase decision on what the product can actually do now, not what might be 'Coming Soon'.

Peace.
2018-1-2
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fansdb6ff1f7
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United Kingdom
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fans37898345 Posted at 2018-1-2 16:33
I agree that you don't have to buy.  Unfortunatley DJI has led the general public to believe that their products (in my case: I2, X5s, Cendence, and CSU) are the perfect solution for their business needs and are functional enough to get the job done. A minimum level of functionality should be expected at all times, even with future updates.  
Although this is still a young industry which is steadily advancing/improving, there seems to be an attitude at DJI that it's ok to repeatedly release "unfinished" products to the general public for further testing.  I believe this might be acceptable if buyers were simply made aware by DJI that this product requires more testing and may not be fully functional for its intended use and is considered "experimental".  Also, at any moment the product may be rendered useless for an undisclosed period of time due to "updates" with unforeseen consequences.
Never have I purchased an item or system of any kind which seemed to promise so much and yet lack a sense of finish. This would be like going to the Auto Mall and purchasing a new truck for your construction business.  All the videos and info you've seen regarding this new truck, show it performing everything you want it to do and the company goes on and on about how it will get the job done, even going so far as showing you finished productions it performed in.

Totally Correct. I'm now using my Mavic for business. Totally ridiculous I know but until DJI release either a statement that addresses the issues with the latest I2 firmware update & confirms when those issues will be fixed I cannot risk my reputation.   
2018-1-6
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Upper Limit Fil
Second Officer
Flight distance : 81683 ft
United States
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I agree the fact that we have gone over a year without intelligent flight mode is ridiculous.
2018-1-9
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Rotor Aerial Ci
lvl.2

United Kingdom
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Farnk666 Posted at 2018-1-2 17:07
OP, you seem to be under the impression that this industry is regulated somehow.
There are no internationally set engineering standards for UAV, no independent Quality assurance processes or bodies and no international laws or treaties covering such manufacturing.
To your example of the automotive sector, each country has documented minimum engineering standards that products must comply with for sale, this is not the case with UAV.

The industry might not be regulated, but the sale of goods is. A product should be fit for purpose from the date of purchase and if its not, its manufacturers are breaking the law. FACT.

Were not buying these drones because of what they may or may not be able to do in the future, we buy them because of what DJI tells us they can do now...and we as the naive customers believe them, only to be sorely disappointed when we find out that actually, they're not the professional pieces of kit that we thought we were buying. DJI needs to up its game massively if it wants to remain in the pro drone market. Its products are great, unbelieveable in fact....when they work. Unfortunately they are loaded with issues and when you rely on your drone to feed your family, frankly thats not good enough.
2018-1-12
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Farnk666
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Australia
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Rotor Aerial Ci Posted at 2018-1-12 13:15
The industry might not be regulated, but the sale of goods is. A product should be fit for purpose from the date of purchase and if its not, its manufacturers are breaking the law. FACT.

Were not buying these drones because of what they may or may not be able to do in the future, we buy them because of what DJI tells us they can do now...and we as the naive customers believe them, only to be sorely disappointed when we find out that actually, they're not the professional pieces of kit that we thought we were buying. DJI needs to up its game massively if it wants to remain in the pro drone market. Its products are great, unbelieveable in fact....when they work. Unfortunately they are loaded with issues and when you rely on your drone to feed your family, frankly thats not good enough.

Yes, all true - but how much consideration do you think DJI's management give to consumer law in countries across the world when there are punters everywhere lining up to buy anything / everything they make?

The only factor they will recognise is sales - as long as people keep buying, the same quality issues will happen over and over. Exactly the same issues and arguments have appeared with every generation of product.

The best thing that could happen in improving DJI's quality assurance is for a competitor to emerge.
2018-1-12
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DTK
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Australia
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I think that is why we need consumer protection in any country. In Western world, consumer protection is very much set up and working to consumers' benefits. Of course, you need disgruntle customers to set the process in train for these organizations to take action.
2018-1-13
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RobAlbania
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Albania
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After many "teething problems" reported elsewhere, my Inspire 2 is now flying very nicely.  I used to fly first generation r/c helicopters (without any gyro).  Then second generation (with tail gyro).  I then missed a few generations where GPS and automatic hover and return home facilities were developed along with FPV and video downlinks.  And now I bought the Inspire 2 ...

I'm very pleased to have the privilege to own and fly the Inspire 2 and take amazing video footage.  It is the easiest and most precise r/c helicopter to fly that I have ever flown, certainly by contrast with first and second generation r/c helicopters.

I think many of DJI's "poor customer relationship" problems are due to software bugs and what appears to be poor pre-release testing.  These problems are made much more severe because DJI do not currently support a proper process of regressing back or choosing previous software versions.  The DJI GO App should not enforce "the very latest" firmware upgrades, but should enable a choice of firmware versions.

2018-1-15
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