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Why is logging in more important than customer satisfaction?
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David_
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Seems like a strange question, right? On Christmas day, and several times in the past, DJI servers were overloaded, preventing customers from logging in. Should just be a minor inconvenience, right? Well, the problem is that someone at DJI decided that logging in more important than customer satisfaction. They explicitly placed logic in the app that makes it so that the only way to use the app is by logging in. Because this unnecessary logic exists, when their servers get overloaded, your drone is bricked until they come back up. This situation rightfully infuriated a lot of new customers on Christmas day and several times in the past. Imagine driving for hours to some remote site only to find out your drone is bricked because DJI decided logging in was more important than you being able to use a product that you own. All DJI has done in the past is slowly react to get the servers back up and apologize. The servers are not the problem though! The problem is that logging in was artificially placed there as a requirement to be able to use the drone! A simple code change would have removed that requirement the first time this issue came up and thus prevented it from ever happening again. DJI did not do this though. Why?
2017-12-26
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rolling56
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Are you one of the unlucky ones that got signed up/logged in? oops i mean lucky ones. In 6 months you will be a pro....

I wondered how this Christmas was going to go over and it seems not well......
2017-12-26
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Wachtberger
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First of all I believe that simply asking why logging in is important would have been the appropriate wording and not putting it right away in conflict with customer satisfaction. In my opinion the purpose is quite understandable. You have to be online at least once before the first take off to allow GO 4 to check for potentially crucial firmware updates for flight security and security of your vessel. You also have to be online once to activate your vessel because this is the moment when your warranty period (and care refresh if you bought it) start. Valid reasons I believe.
2017-12-26
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Mari
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Maybe you should read more carefully what is posted on this forum...

You only need to login once on the app, after that you can use it without internet or cell coverage... To make sure you can fly whenever you want, just login on the app once after an update of the app or firmware...
2017-12-26
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Labroides
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There's no need to repeat your rant in a new thread.  You've said it all already.  
2017-12-26
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Disco3
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Mari Posted at 2017-12-26 14:06
Maybe you should read more carefully what is posted on this forum...

You only need to login once on the app, after that you can use it without internet or cell coverage... To make sure you can fly whenever you want, just login on the app once after an update of the app or firmware...

Yes, login once. But how often is once? Once a day, once a week, once at random intervals?

It drives me crazy that it is just so inconsistent
2017-12-26
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hallmark007
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It came in when russian hacked firmware did as DJI's response to attempt to get everyone using software versions created without the previous vulnerabilities.
That's the reason it was rushed in.
I'm not commenting on how well it was implemented or how effective it is.

https://www.dji.com/newsroom/new ... nd-firmware-updates
2017-12-26
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David_
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Wachtberger Posted at 2017-12-26 14:05
First of all I believe that simply asking why logging in is important would have been the appropriate wording and not putting it right away in conflict with customer satisfaction. In my opinion the purpose is quite understandable. You have to be online at least once before the first take off to allow GO 4 to check for potentially crucial firmware updates for flight security and security of your vessel. You also have to be online once to activate your vessel because this is the moment when your warranty period (and care refresh if you bought it) start. Valid reasons I believe.

Logging in is not important at all when compared to being able to fly when you expect to. Logging in is something DJI wants, not what the customer wants. The customer just wants to use their new toy with as little hassle as possible. Imagine driving all the way out to some remote place and running into this artificially created issue. There is no legitimate excuse for this.This question will not get answered publicly by a DJI employee. They know that they have no valid excuse for requiring login and they are hoping the problem is forgotten about, just like the last several times this happened.
2017-12-26
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David_
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Mari Posted at 2017-12-26 14:06
Maybe you should read more carefully what is posted on this forum...

You only need to login once on the app, after that you can use it without internet or cell coverage... To make sure you can fly whenever you want, just login on the app once after an update of the app or firmware...

Nothing should ever stop you from flying except for real, physical issues like a dead battery or a broken propeller.
2017-12-26
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hallmark007
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David_ Posted at 2017-12-26 15:04
Logging in is not important at all when compared to being able to fly when you expect to. Logging in is something DJI wants, not what the customer wants. The customer just wants to use their new toy with as little hassle as possible. Imagine driving all the way out to some remote place and running into this artificially created issue. There is no legitimate excuse for this.This question will not get answered publicly by a DJI employee. They know that they have no valid excuse for requiring login and they are hoping the problem is forgotten about, just like the last several times this happened.

I’ve already explained and given a valid reason, it seems like your looking for two reasons, if your going to a very remote location travelling for hours it should easily click with you that you check before you leave you are signed in.
2017-12-26
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Mari
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Disco3 Posted at 2017-12-26 14:36
Yes, login once. But how often is once? Once a day, once a week, once at random intervals?

It drives me crazy that it is just so inconsistent

once = 1 time...  repeat that after app-update or firmware-update to make sure it is stored that you are logged-in correctly.

Don't be that stupid to use the log-out option that is in the app, just close it like you normally close an app!

And if you keep having troubles, uninstall and re-install the app... update after update can make the app less stable... a new and fresh install may help.

It has never stopped me from flying...



2017-12-26
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Woe
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No problems here. I feel bad for all the newbies
2017-12-26
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Kuya Kano
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I didn't find any problems on Christmas day, or any other day for that matter.
2017-12-26
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Genghis9
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Reason: they cannot control your ability to fly and work the GEO fencing without you tapped in to mother DJI...it is what it is, you don't have to like it, but you do have to deal with it.  Thus far to date much has been stated, complained about, and lamented on this very issue, and DJI has not even blinked about it.  You have to remember the culture you are dealing with here, control is the key to everything...something we here in the west aren't fully used to at least as customers from a company selling a product such as this.
2017-12-26
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ghostrdr
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Why not just give a guided missile to anyone without any accountability? That's basically what DJI would be doing if they didn't require activation. How many times have we seen new pilots so anxious to fly neglect to do so in a safe environment and almost immediately crash into a garage or a tree or a wall or worse? That guy would just pack up his drone and try to return it to a retailer as damaged before delivery. Of course, it was not his fault, the drone had bad software or some other defect. This process at least insures that the drone was delivered without damage or you wouldn't have bothered to activate it. Sure, some were inconvenienced for a day but once you do login, you very seldom have to do it again. That first day would be better served reading the user guide or watching some videos rather than decapitating the family pet!
2017-12-26
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Todd in Chicago
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As far as I know, you do not need to be connected to the Internet to fly.

When I was using my Android phone to connect to the remote controller, I would put my phone on Airplane mode, so there was no wireless connectivity.  Never had a problem.

Now I use a Crystal Sky which has no wireless capability (only wifi) and same thing, never a problem.

Again, as far as I know, there is no realtime communication or access to the Internet required to fly the Spark.

Not sure what the rant is about.  Maybe just another person who did not RTFM?  Maybe they are are talking about needed to activate first.  I really don't know how much more clear DJI could be when saying ...."You need to activate your Spark before you fly".

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago
P.S.  Update:  I just looked at my original Spark box (yeah...I kept it), and to be fair, it is not very clear that you must activate your product BEFORE it can be used.  Perhaps there are some that, armed with this information, may decide not to purchase, because they don't want that "connected" feeling.  Anyone that has done any research however, would know that activation is required before flying.  To prevent future misunderstandings, DJI may want to include that sticker on the box, product will not fly before being activated online at DJI.com.
2017-12-26
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David_
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There is a simple truth here that is being danced around and avoided.

Nothing should stop you from using a device you own other than physical problems like a dead battery.


That's  all  there is to it. I'm surprised that some people are ok with a  company  crossing that line and adding additional restrictions to no  one's  benefit but their own.
2017-12-26
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Nebuchadnezzar
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This is why the next brand i buy...not will be Dji
2017-12-26
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Labroides
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Nebuchadnezzar Posted at 2017-12-26 22:01
This is why the next brand i buy...not will be Dji

That's why the next drone you buy will be junk
2017-12-26
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Labroides
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How many threads are you going to start to push your rant?  That's 3 that I've seen so far.
2017-12-26
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Mari
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... you keep repeating yourself... If you don't want this, revert back to .700 version FW and an old version of the app... don't ask here how to do that, use your friend Google for that answer.

@Todd in Chicago:  you can fly the drone without registration, you will only be limited in distance and height! The drones were boxed and sold long before DJI implemented that limitation in the FW. I agree that they should make it clear and put sticker on the box...
2017-12-27
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DJI Thor
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David, we are so sorry for the inconvenience that has been caused. We had noticed the issue and had the related team to get it resolved immediately.
We do care about the customers' satisfaction, your experience and the user's feedback will be important to us. But for the concern of the flight safety, we will request the users to log in the app first and fly, or the drone will be limited to 30 meters altitude and 50 meters height.
We really appreciate all users' reports of the issue. Sincerely sorry again for the inconvenience, and thank you for your kind understanding.
2017-12-27
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Nebuchadnezzar
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Labroides Posted at 2017-12-26 22:10
That's why the next drone you buy will be junk

I do not care if it's a scrap that reaches more than the current scrap ...
2017-12-27
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David_
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DJI Thor Posted at 2017-12-27 03:28
David, we are so sorry for the inconvenience that has been caused. We had noticed the issue and had the related team to get it resolved immediately.
We do care about the customers' satisfaction, your experience and the user's feedback will be important to us. But for the concern of the flight safety, we will request the users to log in the app first and fly, or the drone will be limited to 30 meters altitude and 50 meters height.
We really appreciate all users' reports of the issue. Sincerely sorry again for the inconvenience, and thank you for your kind understanding.

The solution is to remove the login requirement, not add a few more servers and hope they don't go down for the 5th time. You absolutely cannot justify logging in as something that is more important than being able to fly. It is a fake, unnecessary restriction that was added by DJI, that benefits no one but DJI, at the customer's expense. If you actually cared about the issue never happening again, you would remove the login requirement completely and not add any other limitations in place of it. All of these restrictions are for your benefit, not ours.
2017-12-27
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luciens
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Forced to agree with David. It's bad enough to disable a paid-for product for use by its owner, but the more dangerous issue is the intentional disruption of pilot control of the aircraft in circumstances chosen by DJI. Ironically, that opens DJI up to liability in case of an incident in which a deliberate interruption of control of the aircraft is involved. For example, you can imagine nightmarish outcomes of an autolanding of the aircraft out of the control of the pilot-in-command if it happens to go into a "NFZ". If the aircraft just happens to descend, out of control, into the rotor blades of a manned helicopter in the area, resulting in a fatality.... and it can be demonstrated that the control interruption in the firmware was responsible.... well, you get the picture. Nasty situation and not just for the pilot...

It is, and has to remain, the PIC's sole responsibility to ensure the flight is safe and all appropriate regulations are complied with. If DJI starts taking over that control, it assumes responsibility to the extent that it does this.

But that's just one difficulty with these limitations. The others are maybe a little more innocent, but still really bad. Making your product more and more difficult to use for your customers is never a good thing. And for those for whom flying is their bread and butter, when these restrictions start to hit them in the pocket book with lost work, etc., an eventual move to DJI's competition can be expected over time.

There;s always a point at which we will stop accepting the limitations and go elsewhere with our checkbooks. That's already about to happen to me, though I'm keeping my P4P for the time being....

2017-12-27
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Geebax
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luciens Posted at 2017-12-27 10:49
Forced to agree with David. It's bad enough to disable a paid-for product for use by its owner, but the more dangerous issue is the intentional disruption of pilot control of the aircraft in circumstances chosen by DJI. Ironically, that opens DJI up to liability in case of an incident in which a deliberate interruption of control of the aircraft is involved. For example, you can imagine nightmarish outcomes of an autolanding of the aircraft out of the control of the pilot-in-command if it happens to go into a "NFZ". If the aircraft just happens to descend, out of control, into the rotor blades of a manned helicopter in the area, resulting in a fatality.... and it can be demonstrated that the control interruption in the firmware was responsible.... well, you get the picture. Nasty situation and not just for the pilot...

It is, and has to remain, the PIC's sole responsibility to ensure the flight is safe and all appropriate regulations are complied with. If DJI starts taking over that control, it assumes responsibility to the extent that it does this.

'For example, you can imagine nightmarish outcomes of an autolanding of the aircraft out of the control of the pilot-in-command if it happens to go into a "NFZ". If the aircraft just happens to descend, out of control, into the rotor blades of a manned helicopter in the area, resulting in a fatality.... and it can be demonstrated that the control interruption in the firmware was responsible.... well, you get the picture.'

Really? What were you doing flying ABOVE the helicopter anyway? What a ridiculous example!
2017-12-27
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Labroides
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luciens Posted at 2017-12-27 10:49
Forced to agree with David. It's bad enough to disable a paid-for product for use by its owner, but the more dangerous issue is the intentional disruption of pilot control of the aircraft in circumstances chosen by DJI. Ironically, that opens DJI up to liability in case of an incident in which a deliberate interruption of control of the aircraft is involved. For example, you can imagine nightmarish outcomes of an autolanding of the aircraft out of the control of the pilot-in-command if it happens to go into a "NFZ". If the aircraft just happens to descend, out of control, into the rotor blades of a manned helicopter in the area, resulting in a fatality.... and it can be demonstrated that the control interruption in the firmware was responsible.... well, you get the picture. Nasty situation and not just for the pilot...

It is, and has to remain, the PIC's sole responsibility to ensure the flight is safe and all appropriate regulations are complied with. If DJI starts taking over that control, it assumes responsibility to the extent that it does this.

Congratulations on coming up with the most contrived scenario I've read in the forum.
Just imagine how much worse it could have been if the crashing helicopter caused a bus full of orphans to run into a train carrying toxic waste, causing the train to derail, spilling the cargo into the town's water supply.
If DJI starts taking over that control, it assumes responsibility to the extent that it does this.
Um ... DJI taking over control of your Phantom??
That's about as fanciful as the bus full of orphans etc.
When have you heard of DJI taking control of anyone's Phantom?
And for those for whom flying is their bread and butter, when these restrictions start to hit them in the pocket book with lost work, etc., an eventual move to DJI's competition can be expected over time.
What restrictions?
And what competition?  (there is none)
There;s always a point at which we will stop accepting the limitations and go elsewhere with our checkbooks.
Checkbooks?   What's a checkbook?
2017-12-27
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luciens
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Geebax Posted at 2017-12-27 13:35
'For example, you can imagine nightmarish outcomes of an autolanding of the aircraft out of the control of the pilot-in-command if it happens to go into a "NFZ". If the aircraft just happens to descend, out of control, into the rotor blades of a manned helicopter in the area, resulting in a fatality.... and it can be demonstrated that the control interruption in the firmware was responsible.... well, you get the picture.'

Really? What were you doing flying ABOVE the helicopter anyway? What a ridiculous example!

Not at all. Suppose you had permission to fly into the NFZ and were in transit to your destination. Copter becomes unresponsive due to a bug in the NFZ firmware... stops where it is and slowly begins a descent.... into a manned aircraft's path. The PIC, having no control, cannot give way to the manned aircraft as he's required to by regulations and disaster strikes. It's easy to think up your own other scenarios involving a forced interruption in aircraft control by the firmware....

Not an inconceivable scenario at all.
2017-12-27
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luciens
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Labroides Posted at 2017-12-27 14:20
Congratulations on coming up with the most contrived scenario I've read in the forum.
Just imagine how much worse it could have been if the crashing helicopter caused a bus full of orphans to run into a train carrying toxic waste, causing the train to derail, spilling the cargo into the town's water supply.
If DJI starts taking over that control, it assumes responsibility to the extent that it does this.

Have you tried flying your P4P or mavic lately with just the controller? have you tried flying into a NFZ in atti mode? And many other reports of control problems having to do with NFZ's?

What if you're on a job, need to be in the air Right Now, but you can't login to the silly Go app? While you fight with it, your client rolls his eyes and eventually just asks you to leave.... Sound like fun to you?
2017-12-27
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Geebax
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luciens Posted at 2017-12-27 16:09
Not at all. Suppose you had permission to fly into the NFZ and were in transit to your destination. Copter becomes unresponsive due to a bug in the NFZ firmware... stops where it is and slowly begins a descent.... into a manned aircraft's path. The PIC, having no control, cannot give way to the manned aircraft as he's required to by regulations and disaster strikes. It's easy to think up your own other scenarios involving a forced interruption in aircraft control by the firmware....

Not an inconceivable scenario at all.

Totally inconcievable, you should never be flying anywhere near a manned aircraft UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, much less above it.
2017-12-27
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luciens
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Geebax Posted at 2017-12-27 16:31
Totally inconcievable, you should never be flying anywhere near a manned aircraft UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, much less above it.

Wrong. Manned aircraft can and do come into your airspace even if you're following the rules to the letter - that's why the rule requiring you to give way to manned aircraft in that event is in the regs in the first place.

"you shouldn't be there anyway" is not a defense for any form of intentional interruption of aircraft control. Anything that deliberately takes control away from the PIC is just plain dangerous and unacceptable period, no matter what the circumstances are.
2017-12-27
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Geebax
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luciens Posted at 2017-12-27 16:44
Wrong. Manned aircraft can and do come into your airspace even if you're following the rules to the letter - that's why the rule requiring you to give way to manned aircraft in that event is in the regs in the first place.

"you shouldn't be there anyway" is not a defense for any form of intentional interruption of aircraft control. Anything that deliberately takes control away from the PIC is just plain dangerous and unacceptable period, no matter what the circumstances are.

You have developed a BS scenario in the first place, and now you are compounding it with more BS. The whole point of the DJI approach is that if the aircraft should not be in that airspace, then it forces a landing, and so it should.
2017-12-27
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luciens
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Geebax Posted at 2017-12-27 17:48
You have developed a BS scenario in the first place, and now you are compounding it with more BS. The whole point of the DJI approach is that if the aircraft should not be in that airspace, then it forces a landing, and so it should.

Regardless of what you think of it, intentionally removing control from the PIC of the aircraft is extremely dangerous no matter what the circumstance is - an aircraft out of control is an aircraft out of control, even if it seems to be doing something innocent at the time.
It's unfortunate that anyone would even try to defend behavior like that, I find that very strange.

If a manned aircraft decided to autoland by itself on approach to a restricted area or NFZ, etc., there would be, er, consequences I'll put it that way.
2017-12-27
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Geebax
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luciens Posted at 2017-12-27 17:54
Regardless of what you think of it, intentionally removing control from the PIC of the aircraft is extremely dangerous no matter what the circumstance is - an aircraft out of control is an aircraft out of control, even if it seems to be doing something innocent at the time.
It's unfortunate that anyone would even try to defend behavior like that, I find that very strange.

Why are you ignoring the fact that if the aircraft gets to the point of auto-landing, you have already ignored a whole heap of warnings telling you that you are flying into a prohibited zone. Far better to take the aircraft out of the sky than let it venture further into a dangerous area.
2017-12-27
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luciens
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Geebax Posted at 2017-12-27 17:58
Why are you ignoring the fact that if the aircraft gets to the point of auto-landing, you have already ignored a whole heap of warnings telling you that you are flying into a prohibited zone. Far better to take the aircraft out of the sky than let it venture further into a dangerous area.

Because it doesn't matter how or why the rules were broken or how the aircraft busted prohibited airspace once it's in that airspace. At that point, the very WORST and STUPIDIST thing you can do is put it out of control. If you do that, you not only got a whole heap of regs busted and a whole bunch of warnings BUT ALSO an aircraft flying around in there under the control of NOBODY.

So it may sound innocent enough to "take it out of the sky", but if it does that under the control of NOBODY, that really IS compounding what's already a dangerous situation into something potentially catastrophic.

Control of the aircraft is rule number 1 in aviation - even if everything else has been busted to bits, you're still far far safer with the aircraft UNDER CONTROL. That's the only hope you have of resolving the situation safely. After the a/c is on the ground, then you can put the cuffs on. But while the aircraft is in the air, it MUST remain under control.
2017-12-27
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Genghis9
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Geebax Posted at 2017-12-27 17:58
Why are you ignoring the fact that if the aircraft gets to the point of auto-landing, you have already ignored a whole heap of warnings telling you that you are flying into a prohibited zone. Far better to take the aircraft out of the sky than let it venture further into a dangerous area.

Geebax...bud think happy thoughts and realize the fight is no longer about the facts...it's about the perception and impression of the situation.  You won't get this through with that wall in front...
Take Care...
2017-12-27
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ALABAMA
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These are the reasons some people should only buy toy drones.  They would save a lot of money, and rants that nobody wants to read.
2017-12-27
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luciens
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Sorry guys for the rant. It's just I've never heard anyone advocate for intentional surrender of control of an aircraft while in flight _ever_. I've been involved in aviation for over 30 years and have simply never heard this. Very very bizarre. But maybe times have just changed and left me behind ...
2017-12-27
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Geebax
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luciens Posted at 2017-12-27 18:17
Sorry guys for the rant. It's just I've never heard anyone advocate for intentional surrender of control of an aircraft while in flight _ever_. I've been involved in aviation for over 30 years and have simply never heard this. Very very bizarre. But maybe times have just changed and left me behind ...

Remember that the DJI programming is not there because of careful flyers who know what they are doing and will avoid dangerous flying inside an NFZ, it is there for the thousands of idiots who don't even know what an NFZ means.
2017-12-27
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luciens
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Geebax Posted at 2017-12-27 18:45
Remember that the DJI programming is not there because of careful flyers who know what they are doing and will avoid dangerous flying inside an NFZ, it is there for the thousands of idiots who don't even know what an NFZ means.

I understand the rationale, but I just find it objectionable that everyone else to be punished too. Namely, with the hassles associated with legitimate uses of otherwise restricted airspace if the need or desire arises, and even if you want to fly but all you have is your goggles and you left your smart phone at home. I just muchly prefer to be free to exercise my own personal responsibility and not have it done for me.

But such is life in many areas these days. And I guess I'm used to manned aviation where my plane doesn't land itself without my consent .
2017-12-27
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