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Serious I2's design flaw - WHY DJI don't do anything?
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Matthew Dobrski
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CineView Media Posted at 2018-1-26 03:25
The content of this thread gives me chills!
Ive been sceptic of spending this much money on a drone, that to me still is a toy with a pro camera attached, and if the sh.. hits the fan, youre left alone fighting agains the impossible, proving it was a manufacture error.
I like the concept of this machine, but the reliability around everything is terrifying

You can't be more wrong with your worries, my friend! No machine is invulnerable. All you read here about failures doesn't reflect overall reliability of this particular product, which probably fails no more and no less than anything else man-made. Legions of other happy and amazed Inspire 2 pilots don't bother to post here. Go for it and fly the beast !
2018-1-26
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Farnk666
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lolders Posted at 2018-1-26 14:25
Well I think I know why this happens guys. Day one when I got my I 2 (I was one of the first people to own one in Canada), I noticed that when you opened the landing gear, the rubber pads on the feet caused the landing gear to "skip" across the surface you put it on. I said to myself "Yikes, I will never stress the legs again". I saw this right away, however I've seen so many videos of people setting it up on pavement and bad surfaces and they just let it scrape! Since that very first time I always pick the unit up by the arms when opening and closing the landing gear.  When the grip pads skip on the surface it twists the glue apart.  So yes I could be wrong, but I think it is all caused by the user...  Hopefully this helps some people.. PS, some guy make printed clamps for the arms. I agree though, there should have been a few rods going through it to just secure it rigid.

And the thousands of Inspire 1 owners who have been flying for years with exactly the same setup and design? No word of motors falling off those arms.

This is a manufacturing fault, probably due to some work they have done to increase the efficiency of the assembly process or a design/materials change.

If DJI wanted people to hold their Inspires up off the ground when coming out of storage mode, it would be in the manual.

2018-1-26
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Matthew Dobrski
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Farnk666 Posted at 2018-1-26 17:04
And the thousands of Inspire 1 owners who have been flying for years with exactly the same setup and design? No word of motors falling off those arms.

This is a manufacturing fault, probably due to some work they have done to increase the efficiency of the assembly process or a design/materials change.

Since my therapist gave up on me, I'm using a pillow method ... I'm holding it tight against face and scream my lungs out ... It works ... ...
2018-1-26
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yuumee
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Matthew Dobrski Posted at 2018-1-26 13:39
Knowing that Sherlock Holmes was extremely intelligent, I'm taking your final comment as a compliment . However, you misunderstand the meaning of "manufacturing fault", Here's an googled explanation:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=manufacturing+fault+definition&oq=manufacturing+fault&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l5.9096j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Or alter the design to eliminate it completely. If you know particular part will be getting X type of forces, you design it in a way that can withstand it.

I still call it design flaw.
2018-1-27
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KeithM6
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And the thousands of Inspire 1 owners who have been flying for years with exactly the same setup and design? No word of motors falling off those arms.

The design of the landing gear on the Inspire 1 and Inspire 2 are not the same. The Inspire 1 "feet" have plastic on the bottom and slide more easily than do the Inspire 2 feet which have a small rubber dimple on the bottom of each "foot". I have both, and even on a smooth surface, the Inspire 2 needs a bit of help to slide smoothly. In my opinion, if the inspire 2 transisitons from travel mode to landing mode on a rough surface, a great deal of torque is applied to the motor mount attachment glue joint.

This may be a factor in the failures we have observed.
2018-1-27
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Ch.Huebner
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KeithM6 Posted at 2018-1-27 07:15
The design of the landing gear on the Inspire 1 and Inspire 2 are not the same. The Inspire 1 "feet" have plastic on the bottom and slide more easily than do the Inspire 2 feet which have a small rubber dimple on the bottom of each "foot". I have both, and even on a smooth surface, the Inspire 2 needs a bit of help to slide smoothly. In my opinion, if the inspire 2 transisitons from travel mode to landing mode on a rough surface, a great deal of torque is applied to the motor mount attachment glue joint.

This may be a factor in the failures we have observed.

We have solved the problem now: 4 safety clamps and everything is safe. Purchased here:
https://www.pimp-your-kopter.de/ ... cherungsklammer.php

2018-1-30
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eggbeater
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Ch.Huebner Posted at 2018-1-30 08:26
We have solved the problem now: 4 safety clamps and everything is safe. Purchased here:
https://www.pimp-your-kopter.de/dji-multikopter/dji-inspire-2/zubehoer-dji-inspire-2/i2-sicherungsklammer.php

You should know this safety hack precludes the use of the factory propeller guards.
2018-1-30
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ronin rs211
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Matthew Dobrski Posted at 2018-1-26 14:16
It's not that simple, Ronin. To understand design challenge in this case, one must know specific physical and mechanical properties of carbon fiber tubes. Carbon tubes are providing amazing strength to weight ratio lengthwise, yet they're very brittle and prone to collapse under excessive clamping stress. Special tooling and technique is necessary to perform cutting, drilling or notching. Any not-reinforced opening in the wall will create stress concentration around, challenging the worthiness of such joinery:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=stress+concentration&oq=stress+concentration&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I built a car out of carbon fiber so I kinda know how this stuff works... crap design flaw is still crap design.
2018-2-2
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Elektrica Atellani
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We think we found the solution for this. We've been testing it and it seems to be working really well. It's not affection the I2 at all, but it adds load and loads of safety and peace of mind:
https://forum.dji.com/thread-135050-1-1.html
2018-2-12
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fansd845e849
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Its not a question of if it will detatch. Overtime the glue will inevitably fail whether it deteriorates fast or slow depends on the environment it's in.

The clamp that screws on the carbon tube is good but remember the motors can detatch too.

The inspire 2 has a weak mechanical design.

But the inspire 1 has a weak battery design, that is why it has been detuned by limited output. Inspire 1's crashed because of battery brick voltage failure. Software fixed it

The inspire 2 if goes through proper maintenance periodically can be made safe.
2018-2-12
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Mr.Mister
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Do any of the solutions presented in this thread address the "tilting" of the motor if the glue fails?  The first clamp in this thread appears to keep the motor attached to the arm, but if it also does not keep it from spinning or getting out of alignment, I think you'll be crashing anyway.

Has anyone from DJI publicly announced what they did (if anything) to resolve this issue?  If so, how can we tell if our birds are the "affected" ones?

And finally, I'd also just like to say that the original flaming the OP received on this post is ridiculous. This is a serious issue that we should NOT be "just moving along". It's attitudes like this that can get someone hurt.
2018-2-15
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FalconCam
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Mr.Mister Posted at 2018-2-15 17:01
Do any of the solutions presented in this thread address the "tilting" of the motor if the glue fails?  The first clamp in this thread appears to keep the motor attached to the arm, but if it also does not keep it from spinning or getting out of alignment, I think you'll be crashing anyway.

Has anyone from DJI publicly announced what they did (if anything) to resolve this issue?  If so, how can we tell if our birds are the "affected" ones?

I too would like to know what DJI has done to fix this issue as I have heard nothing regarding a fix and whether my I2 is susceptible to this design flaw (bought almost a year ago).

Which of the 3rd party solutions is the best?
2018-2-20
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Cougar1
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FalconCam Posted at 2018-2-20 10:36
I too would like to know what DJI has done to fix this issue as I have heard nothing regarding a fix and whether my I2 is susceptible to this design flaw (bought almost a year ago).

Which of the 3rd party solutions is the best?

Best solution might be to do proper maintenance as well as pre-flight checks.
2018-2-20
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dan_vector
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DJI have done absolutely nothing publicly to even acknowledge the I2's several design flaws. My unit has been sat with less than an hour on it because I just won't fly it. It has severe vibration and wanders all over the place.

DJI support just don't give a sh1t and have told me that there is nothing wrong with my drone.

The I2 is dangerous and unsafe and until DJI actually publicly make a statement and recall the defective drones for modification my I2 will just sit and rot. I'm furious that DJI just take the money and run away. Crooks the lot of them.
2018-2-20
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KerryG
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We run one of the largest DJI Repair shops in the US and have sold many, many units and have never seen this. Sure, you can say that you saw 20 people post about it but 20 out of tens of thousands of units but the math of that makes it pretty much statistically zero.  This doesn't mean it can't happen but it isn't enough to warrant a recall or even "require" DJI to respond to this thread.
2018-2-25
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fans44739f0d
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2019-1-23
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Matthew Dobrski
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Well, accidents happen ...
airport-6-5-16.jpg
2019-1-23
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ElectricLife Atellani
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Sorry for that. It's such a pity to see this gorgeous bird like this.
this could have helped avoid the accident:
ULTIMADRONE
In the new version it also includes parts to avoid propeller vibrations.
No matter what, the kit adds overall stability to the craft, by being the only one coupling the motors, especially without being intrusive or by replacing stock parts.
We've been flying Kit 1 and Kit 2 for many, many months and no more issues, no more vibrations and a good degree of added stability, especially with high winds. There're currently many hundreds of these kits mounted on Inspires. It's a small insurance for a priceless machine and a series of added benefits no matter what. It also allows for prolonged use of DJI stock propellers, which we consider the way to go.
2019-1-23
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ASTURDRON
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that same thing just happened to me.




According to the response of DJI it is my fault:

Many thanks for reaching out. Your question is rather broad, but I hope to assume correctly you are asking after its warranty status. I see that a Data Analysis has been performed and was updated with the following conclusion:

"NO WARRANTY
DJIFlightRecord_2018-11-03_[11-08-29]

1. The aircraft was piloted under GPS mode, and responded to the pilot's control well;
2. T=14:07, h=87.1 m, d=56.5 m, the pilot put throttle stick downward, roll stick leftward and pitch stick backward, then the aircraft flew to the left rear direction when descending, and it crashed with obstacles;
3. Incident point: 43.5641440 -6.1498697. The aircraft cannot sense or avoid obstacles that are not within the detection range, please fly with caution.

Conclusion: Pilot stick command error, charged."

Hope to have informed you.

Kind Regards,
Best regards,
2019-1-24
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ElectricLife Atellani
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ASTURDRON Posted at 1-24 07:06
that same thing just happened to me.

[view_image]

It might not be the same thing. It looks like you hit a cable while flying backwards (visible in the video), correct me if I am wrong.If that is the case, the inspire is not expected to detect that and the crash, as seen in the video, seems unavoidable, The Inspire does not have rear detection sensors (But even detection sensors are hardly going to detect a cable). Therefore it is considered pilot error.
Sorry for your loss!
2019-1-24
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Mike9129
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I sent my own drone back to DJI just this Tuesday past with a crack after developing in the same part of the arm as is cracked in your photo @asturdon

to be honest, 2 years of taking off and landing and flying in sometimes less than ideal conditions, I don't fault it. I'm just happy that I spotted it before it cracked fully and fell out of the sky.
it could have been the same with your's but you didn't spot it beforehand, and when you started backing away from that cliff at full throttle it might have just finished cracking open.

those small cracks and fractures are something that are easy to miss but very important to keep an eye out for.

other that that leg tho, your drone looks in remarkably good shape for having fallen out of the sky
2019-1-24
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ASTURDRON
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ElectricLife Atellani Posted at 1-24 11:31
It might not be the same thing. It looks like you hit a cable while flying backwards (visible in the video), correct me if I am wrong.If that is the case, the inspire is not expected to detect that and the crash, as seen in the video, seems unavoidable, The Inspire does not have rear detection sensors (But even detection sensors are hardly going to detect a cable). Therefore it is considered pilot error.
Sorry for your loss!

There was a helicopter putting some meshes hanging from the helicopter about 15 meters plus the safety distance another 45 meters (apart if you touch the cables there is no trace of the drone).
From where the drone was to the cables there are about 60 meters measured by topography.
In the back there was nothing only the sea.



I saw how the leg with the engine broke in mid-flight
2019-1-24
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epicjib
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I have not experienced a mid flight failure of the motor mount loosing up from the carbon tube yet, But I installed the reinforcement clamps on my I2 as I want to mitigate any potential issues like this... But I have a crashed I2 due to a bird strike so I grabbed the motor mounts at opposite ends and gave it about 5 lbs of twist force and it came clean off, so the preparation and adhesion surface of the motor mount to the carbon tube is not being properly prepared on some units and this can result in failures.  So I choose to not become one of these examples.
2019-1-24
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ASTURDRON
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This is how dji solves the warranty regarding this manufacturing defect .

(the warranty is passed through the lining)

2nd response from DJI Europe:
       
Support2.NL (DJI Support)

Jan 25, 20:44 CST

We are truly sorry for the inconvenience. You have my understanding however we only use flight record as the professional method for data analysis. The result clearly explained enough that the drone crashed because of out of detection range which is the pilot fault. So we will not provide the warranty for this case.

Kind regards,

Support.eu2

Ying

SUPPORT NL

DJI Europe
2019-1-25
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ElectricLife Atellani
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These possible accidents are exactly why we made a kit that couples motors 2 X 2. If it was not a cable strike, as suggested, it would have prevented the accident, as it also avoids a possible rotation.
2019-1-25
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AeroMovie
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As already mentioned above we used the extra holders from the Pimp your Kopter. Make your head a little freer when flying. You can get it here and it's not as expensive as other manufacturers:
https://www.pimp-your-kopter.de/ ... cherungsklammer.php
2019-1-26
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ASTURDRON
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If there are these solutions made by other companies is that it is a problem is common.
So, I do not understand why DJ is washing his hands saying that it is the pilot's fault when the videos clearly show what is happening.

My face would fall of shame if I have to tell a client that I do not apply the guarantee because it is their fault, when I know that the problem is mine.
2019-1-26
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ElectricLife Atellani
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ASTURDRON Posted at 1-26 05:13
If there are these solutions made by other companies is that it is a problem is common.
So, I do not understand why DJ is washing his hands saying that it is the pilot's fault when the videos clearly show what is happening.

To expand and add to that, we actually also made our Kit to also couple the motors, hence create added stability. Probably the main problem is the actual stock propellers, which eventually start rattling. DJI added a piece of foam to mitigate the problem, but eventually those props need replacement and they are not that expensive, considering the price of the I2. We also have a kit for stopping the propeller rattling in case you want to dramatically extend their life
This said, I'd rather change the props every once in a while and I'd rather use DJI's stock props. We did not have a good experience with CF non stock props. those were imprecise, clearly added a lot of strain on the craft on takeoff, even unfolded, etc. Granted, those were early models, but I would fly with DJI's props no matter what.
2019-1-26
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ASTURDRON
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ElectricLife Atellani Posted at 1-26 11:41
To expand and add to that, we actually also made our Kit to also couple the motors, hence create added stability. Probably the main problem is the actual stock propellers, which eventually start rattling. DJI added a piece of foam to mitigate the problem, but eventually those props need replacement and they are not that expensive, considering the price of the I2. We also have a kit for stopping the propeller rattling in case you want to dramatically extend their life
This said, I'd rather change the props every once in a while and I'd rather use DJI's stock props. We did not have a good experience with CF non stock props. those were imprecise, clearly added a lot of strain on the craft on takeoff, even unfolded, etc. Granted, those were early models, but I would fly with DJI's props no matter what.

I understand that we have to change the wear parts, but my inspire did not have 1.5 hours of flight when his arm broke.
2019-1-27
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JBSonic
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It is true, and no, this issue has NOT been addressed by DJI.
Most users are simply unaware of their Inspire 2 faults until it is too late.

I mean,who films their Inspire 2 when hoovering with a high speed camera?
I have.

Guess what I saw? The arms of the Inspire vibrate at a very high frequency, essentially shaking left right very fast, you can see it on the slow motion footage.
This constant high frequency vibration eventually weakens the glue on motor attachment.

Due to manufacturing inconsistencies, some have better distributed glue and might not shake as much,  but they all shake.
This eventually wears down the glue, detachment is virtually unavoidable, the only question is when it will happen.

Temperature here also plays a role, either very high temps or very low temps can speed this process up.
It is poor design, made to fail, long after the warranty period (most of the time).

Honestly would discourage anyone from buying the Inspire 2.
Btw you need around 240 fps or higher to see the shaking, do try it for yourself, you will be amazed (you cant see it with your bare eyes)
2019-1-27
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ElectricLife Atellani
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JBSonic Posted at 1-27 05:38
It is true, and no, this issue has NOT been addressed by DJI.
Most users are simply unaware of their Inspire 2 faults until it is too late.

Interesting. It's generally a high end machine which requires a higher maintenance, which probably includes many propeller changes as well. My current I2 has a 55 hours of flight (700km in distance) and it is mint and solid as a rock (At least the arms). So kudos to DJI for that.Granted, it always flew with the Ultimadrone coupling kit and I used to swap propellers often (Not anymore). I rarely fly in speed mode, but I certainly flew it into high winds and I love descending fast, as I love those moments of semi silence when it dives. Beside changing dampers a couple of times and one of the springs of one of the batteriesy slots not being perfectly smooth, everything else is as good as new. I almost feel that it lasted way past my expectations. I am quite sure that the added strength of the kit helps a lot, but still, this 3rd Inspire 2 is as good as it gets. It flew with searing heat and also at a freezing -25c without a sweat.
I hope I am not going to incur into Murphy's law now.
BTW, we're working on the evolution of the Ultimadrone kit, with a sweet added safety function. Prototypes should come in soon (A week or two) for testing. It looks pretty cool and I think it adds total motor safety in terms of detachment and rotation without sacrificing the beautiful design, which is, let's be honest, quite gorgeous.
2019-1-27
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ASTURDRON
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Well at the end DJI says that the drone did not hit anything in the air, nor did his arm break in mid-flight.
I am told that the accident was caused by me crashing the drone into the ground.
The video of the accident recorded by the drone itself says that it is useless because it doesn't prove anything.
We have used a phantom 4 pro with the same flight plan that inspires 2 to look for it, I have contributed the video and this is the amazing answer of dji: You could have placed the drone there and then record it.
I would never give this answer to one of my clients, I would be embarrassed.

According to Dji, their verdict is professional and they only use the data registered by the mobile application.
I provide the link of the data registered by the mobile application.


Tomorrow I will explain my case to the lawyers of the OCU (organization of consumers and users) of which we are partners.
2019-2-3
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mixchief
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yuumee Posted at 2018-1-26 02:54
It doesn't matter whether this is a design flaw or manufacturing fault - this supposed to be addressed.

If you buy a car tomorrow that has a "manufacturing fault" on the breaks are you going to do something about it or wait for the real accident to happen? And do you think I am going to send my bird tomorrow to DJI in hope they will check it properly for me and return it in same state as it has been delivered to them after seeing all these screw ups they are having with their support?

Actually it is pretty well known that vehicle manufacturers will wait for not only one documented but several documented cases before they recall a potentially dangerous condition, case in point the Tanaka (not exactly sure of the spelling) air bags  that were killing people world wide because of a manufacturing defect that was covered up for years and to this date even though it is a well known issue has resurfaced in cars post disclosure. The Ford Pinto was exploding for a while before Ford did anything, So DJI will likely wait for someone to get hurt before they do anything about it unless a class action suit or similar forces the government (s ) to get involved and force a recall not to mention a grounding of all Inspire 2 craft.
2019-2-3
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