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FCC OR CE??? WHY I CAN'T CHOOSE MYSELF???
10832 26 2018-1-4
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ZmaroSobrinho
Second Officer
Flight distance : 3668084 ft
Brazil
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I recently discovered that you have such an FCC or CE option for the spark drones depending on the geographic region. I would like to know why DJI does not offer this option for user to choose which one to use. I've seen numerous options for changing this with third-party applications and I do not want to use it. Why is not DJI available to choose which we want to use?
2018-1-4
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Vyborny83
Second Officer
Flight distance : 166014 ft
Czechia
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Because you cannot choose which laws you want to obey, Europe has its own regulations - CE and US has FCC (don't know what you must obey in Brazil but even there are rules you cannot simply ignore). If you wanted to use the FCC regulations in Europe, you would risk a fine and the same applies to your country as well. Learn what is allowed there and stick to it.
2018-1-4
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TudorD
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Flight distance : 778363 ft
Italy
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Because DJI implementation of those rules must be coded in the product in order to obey local laws (I don't think that it is possible, for example, to register new cars with the steering wheel on the wrong side) . The problem is that this implementation is only partial because the RC is reducing is power but doesn't change frequencies to obey EU regulations (they are selling a product with the steering wheel in the good side that can only go on the wrong side of the road)..
2018-1-4
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Krrisstoff
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Flight distance : 1531650 ft
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Poland
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Vyborny83 Posted at 2018-1-4 05:33
Because you cannot choose which laws you want to obey, Europe has its own regulations - CE and US has FCC (don't know what you must obey in Brazil but even there are rules you cannot simply ignore). If you wanted to use the FCC regulations in Europe, you would risk a fine and the same applies to your country as well. Learn what is allowed there and stick to it.

That's not true. The option of choosing does not equal breaking the law. The Dji Go application should inform users about territorial rules and not block functions. By blocking the choice of FCC / CE, Dji determines what can and what is not.

Returning to CE. Dji misleads users by providing a reach that is not real. Spark in CE mode can break off communication after just 20 meters. A distance of 500 meters (RC) is virtually unachievable. An unstable signal at short distances makes Spark dangerous.
2018-1-4
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Mario_b
lvl.3
Flight distance : 977103 ft
Germany
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Krrisstoff Posted at 2018-1-4 06:50
That's not true. The option of choosing does not equal breaking the law. The Dji Go application should inform users about territorial rules and not block functions. By blocking the choice of FCC / CE, Dji determines what can and what is not.

Returning to CE. Dji misleads users by providing a reach that is not real. Spark in CE mode can break off communication after just 20 meters. A distance of 500 meters (RC) is virtually unachievable. An unstable signal at short distances makes Spark dangerous.

But the Range Problem is related to the Point that DJI didn't use the good 5 GHz WLAN Channels of the EU Norm. They avoid using all channels between 5490 MHz and 5710. All channels in that Band are allowed for out side use with nearly 30 dBmi (nearly 1 Watt) but Sender must support TCP and DFS (otherwise limited to 500 mWatt).

But all Specs states: 5.725 - 5.825 GHz as used Frequencys. These Frequencys are NOT an Official WLAN Band in the EU, it is open for SRD (Short Range Devices) with limited 14 dBmi power. So sure, they are allowed to use them.

That is exactly the Problem, why we never got a 5GHz Connection from Android to the RC and 2.4 GHz Connection from RC to Spark in Europe. because Android know it is in the EU and doesn't scan/connect that High Band. Ending in an 2.4 GHz Connection between Android and RC, and 5Ghz Connection between RC and Spark.  Android iOS ignores that and connect also in Europe on that higher Band (well sure, they said if there is a wlan it should be allowed there, doesn't care about local rules) - that's why the Connection works well better with iOS as with Android.

From my Point, this is in implementation error by DJI. I didn't see the Point why they avoid the very good Channels which are allowed in the EU (and also in US). And nevertheless it takes me to the Point, that DJI is NOT Android Compatibel in CE Mode.
2018-1-4
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S.J
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Kuwait
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Krrisstoff Posted at 2018-1-4 06:50
That's not true. The option of choosing does not equal breaking the law. The Dji Go application should inform users about territorial rules and not block functions. By blocking the choice of FCC / CE, Dji determines what can and what is not.

Returning to CE. Dji misleads users by providing a reach that is not real. Spark in CE mode can break off communication after just 20 meters. A distance of 500 meters (RC) is virtually unachievable. An unstable signal at short distances makes Spark dangerous.

Actually I am also under CE restriction yet I am able to fly more than 1.5 KM. I use a third party tool to lift the CE and uphold FCC in my SPARK


2018-1-4
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Vyborny83
Second Officer
Flight distance : 166014 ft
Czechia
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Krrisstoff Posted at 2018-1-4 06:50
That's not true. The option of choosing does not equal breaking the law. The Dji Go application should inform users about territorial rules and not block functions. By blocking the choice of FCC / CE, Dji determines what can and what is not.

Returning to CE. Dji misleads users by providing a reach that is not real. Spark in CE mode can break off communication after just 20 meters. A distance of 500 meters (RC) is virtually unachievable. An unstable signal at short distances makes Spark dangerous.

And what would be a point of being able to choose it ? The only impact it would have would be that everybody would choose the best norm (probably FCC) and by doing that, often break the local laws. The fact that this option does not exist actually protects the users from breaking the laws unintentionally (as not everybody knows what is and isn't allowed from available frequencies and their broadcasting power).

Agreed, with the current DJI GO 4 App you can't get even close to the declared max range but at least there is a workaround. On android you can downgrade to DJI GO 4 4.1.15 or lower that still supports the OTG cable. I can get about 400m with that (versus 50m via WiFi).
2018-1-4
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Krrisstoff
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Mario_b Posted at 2018-1-4 07:03
But the Range Problem is related to the Point that DJI didn't use the good 5 GHz WLAN Channels of the EU Norm. They avoid using all channels between 5490 MHz and 5710. All channels in that Band are allowed for out side use with nearly 30 dBmi (nearly 1 Watt) but Sender must support TCP and DFS (otherwise limited to 500 mWatt).

But all Specs states: 5.725 - 5.825 GHz as used Frequencys. These Frequencys are NOT an Official WLAN Band in the EU, it is open for SRD (Short Range Devices) with limited 14 dBmi power. So sure, they are allowed to use them.

Dji, knowing that Spark will not fly in Europe as steadily as in the US, divided users into two groups. Users who live in Europe have bought a defective product with an unstable connection.

If the rules for WIFI signal bands were known before, why did Dji use this type of connection ???
2018-1-4
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Krrisstoff
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S.J Posted at 2018-1-4 07:04
Actually I am also under CE restriction yet I am able to fly more than 1.5 KM. I use a third party tool to lift the CE and uphold FCC in my SPARK

Of course, you can fly in Europe in FCC mode, however it is against the law. Incorrect with the law but much safer looking at the stability of control over the Spark
2018-1-4
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Mario_b
lvl.3
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Germany
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Krrisstoff Posted at 2018-1-4 07:13
Dji, knowing that Spark will not fly in Europe as steadily as in the US, divided users into two groups. Users who live in Europe have bought a defective product with an unstable connection.

If the rules for WIFI signal bands were known before, why did Dji use this type of connection ???

Well i guess, they didn't use them to avoid TPC and DFS Implementation, i see no other point why. Strange thing is, if wikipedia is right, these Channels are allowed nearly overall in the World except India, but India is extrem special.
2018-1-4
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tuonov4aprc
First Officer
Flight distance : 614288 ft
Italy
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Krrisstoff Posted at 2018-1-4 06:50
That's not true. The option of choosing does not equal breaking the law. The Dji Go application should inform users about territorial rules and not block functions. By blocking the choice of FCC / CE, Dji determines what can and what is not.

Returning to CE. Dji misleads users by providing a reach that is not real. Spark in CE mode can break off communication after just 20 meters. A distance of 500 meters (RC) is virtually unachievable. An unstable signal at short distances makes Spark dangerous.

the same behavior does not happen with the altitude setting. Here in Italy the maximum altitude allowed for drones is 150 meters, but if in the app I select 500 meters of maximum altitude, I get a warning that informs me of exceeding the limits imposed, but the setting remains at 500 meters.
2018-1-4
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DJI Elektra
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China
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Zmaro, we would recommend users follow the local regulations and spark will change the mode automatically when it gets the GPS signal and identify the location. Thanks for your understanding.
2018-1-4
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Matioupi
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France
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tuonov4aprc Posted at 2018-1-4 09:38
the same behavior does not happen with the altitude setting. Here in Italy the maximum altitude allowed for drones is 150 meters, but if in the app I select 500 meters of maximum altitude, I get a warning that informs me of exceeding the limits imposed, but the setting remains at 500 meters.

very good point (about the altitude setting)

as for the FCC vs CE, most consumer grade routers let the user choose what country rules they want to stick with. (On my Synology AC2600, i got a message telling me that this might have legal implications not choosing the right one)
Still those routers have the CE AND FCC stamps and you can buy them.
2018-1-4
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S-e-ven
Captain
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Thailand
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Vyborny83 Posted at 2018-1-4 07:08
And what would be a point of being able to choose it ? The only impact it would have would be that everybody would choose the best norm (probably FCC) and by doing that, often break the local laws. The fact that this option does not exist actually protects the users from breaking the laws unintentionally (as not everybody knows what is and isn't allowed from available frequencies and their broadcasting power).

Agreed, with the current DJI GO 4 App you can't get even close to the declared max range but at least there is a workaround. On android you can downgrade to DJI GO 4 4.1.15 or lower that still supports the OTG cable. I can get about 400m with that (versus 50m via WiFi).

Czech Republic, the max speed on your roads is 130 kph, right?
Does all your cars come with a limitation to that by the manufacturer?
2018-1-4
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sergio.flor
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Spain
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DJI Elektra Posted at 2018-1-4 22:11
Zmaro, we would recommend users follow the local regulations and spark will change the mode automatically when it gets the GPS signal and identify the location. Thanks for your understanding.

This is all well and good, but DJI must provide a safe product and now fly spark in Europe is very dangerous. The reach is only of 80 or 100 meters and lost fully the control. You must solved this issue as soon is possible, is an issue known from June and we are waiting an soluction that never arrives. Europe has law about safe flights and dji dont comply. Europe has law about misleading advertising  and dji don't comply....
2018-1-4
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Jos A
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Flight distance : 11588 ft
Netherlands
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New 4.1.15 mod is out with pano, fcc and otg, google is your friend
2018-1-4
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sergio.flor
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Spain
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Jos A Posted at 2018-1-4 23:24
New 4.1.15 mod is out with pano, fcc and otg, google is your friend

I know but this is not the solution because DJI is trying that the go app do automatically the change to CE zone (without comfirmation). From 4.1.15 DJI is working agains the CE users, the OTG don't work, the change to CE without confirmation .... I think that dji must  focus only on fixing this issue and  abandoning their offensive against the CE users.
2018-1-5
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Vyborny83
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Czechia
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S-e-ven Posted at 2018-1-4 22:34
Czech Republic, the max speed on your roads is 130 kph, right?
Does all your cars come with a limitation to that by the manufacturer?

Can you drive only because you got a car let's say as a birthday gift ? No .. you have to get the drivers license first .... there is no such requirement for recreational usage of drones and many people don't even know that there are some restrictions and regulations they should obey. That's the difference.

Don't take me wrong, I would gladly choose to follow FCC rules if that gave me better reliability of WiFi ... but you can't. There is no room for discussion there as the rules are set very clearly in this case. In the car, you are allowed to temporarily increase the speed even above the max allowed speed in case you need to overtake the vehicle before you (and the more power you have the shorter that manuever is), but there are no such exceptions in drone flying ....
2018-1-5
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Jos A
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Netherlands
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I know but this is not the solution because DJI is trying that the go app do automatically the change to CE zone (without comfirmation).huh, thats new...
these are the options on the mod app, and use your phone/table in airplane mode

https://drive.google.com/file/d/ ... L0/view?usp=sharing
2018-1-5
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S-e-ven
Captain
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United States
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Neither it is for bikes and riding them, but in case you drive to quick, lets say in a 30 kph zone with 40, you are doing something wrong!
It is up2you, to know about the law.
And DJI is even tellin you, that there are rules to apply (p.ex. with the height limits), and you have to assure, you know that.
I know that the difference is in the kind of rules, here the frequences and power outings, but till some time ago, the Phantoms had a switch.
And of course, most people would fly in FCC.
Like they drive bike in walking streets.
Build yourself a drone
Rules apply, but not automatic
2018-1-5
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Vyborny83
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Czechia
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S-e-ven Posted at 2018-1-5 00:42
Neither it is for bikes and riding them, but in case you drive to quick, lets say in a 30 kph zone with 40, you are doing something wrong!
It is up2you, to know about the law.
And DJI is even tellin you, that there are rules to apply (p.ex. with the height limits), and you have to assure, you know that.


What I tried to explain is that in motorism there are cases when it is legal to cross otherwise valid regulations like the max speed during a manuever to overtake vehicle before you. Therefore it is justifiable to give the people the option to choose to cross the max speed in some cases.

Do you know about any such case in drone flying ? Any valid reason to justify why it would be a good thing to break the local regulations ? So far the only reason you are giving to DJI to implement this feature is so you can intentionally break the law .....
2018-1-5
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Mildman
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United Kingdom
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Jos A Posted at 2018-1-5 00:39
I know but this is not the solution because DJI is trying that the go app do automatically the change to CE zone (without comfirmation).huh, thats new...
these are the options on the mod app, and use your phone/table in airplane mode

DJI is trying that the go app do automatically the change to CE zone (without comfirmation)

Yes, this is correct, I think it came with one of the many versions of 4.1.18 and during the .900 firmware update. (I keep one device up to date and one device FCC capable).

I was forced back to CE with no Cancel/OK message...but when returning to the hacked 4.1.15 app on my other device, the Cancel/OK message returned.

As said a number of time in these forums, we're not getting full transparency from DJI on the matter....I'm fed up of trying.
2018-1-5
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DJI Elektra
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China
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sergio.flor Posted at 2018-1-4 23:18
This is all well and good, but DJI must provide a safe product and now fly spark in Europe is very dangerous. The reach is only of 80 or 100 meters and lost fully the control. You must solved this issue as soon is possible, is an issue known from June and we are waiting an soluction that never arrives. Europe has law about safe flights and dji dont comply. Europe has law about misleading advertising  and dji don't comply....

Our engineers are working on OTG cable. Please wait patiently. Once there is any news, we will inform users. Thanks for your understanding and attention.
2018-1-5
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Quentyn
First Officer
Flight distance : 37759 ft
Finland
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Hi Elecktra - can i confirm that your message is official confirmation that OTG support is returning officially to the spark  ? be superb if it is
2018-1-5
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Quentyn
First Officer
Flight distance : 37759 ft
Finland
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Hi Elecktra - can i confirm that your message is official confirmation that OTG support is returning officially to the spark  ? be superb if it is
2018-1-5
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stiibu
lvl.2
Flight distance : 155016 ft
Germany
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same issue here ... I fly MAVIC PRO since 2017 (with ipad mini 4) and my son was saving his money several months to buy this week finally a SPARK for his own - he uses a SAMSUNG A5 Android Cell phone with a SIM Card without a data rate.
1) without OTG support it was almost impossible to register his setup and go through the initial startup procedure - we cannot establish MOBILE > RC and MOBILE > Internet at the same time without  100% reliable OTG support !!!!!!!! Even we tried it, it was inconsistent using the latest 4.2.8 Go App. Some important information is missing on the screen (e.g. accu %) but finally we managed at least to activate his spark.
2) our first SPARK test-flight (without the buggy OTG but with the WIFI >> RC setup) was a nightmare compared to the MAVIC PRO experience ... even after 50m we suffered massiv video image issues, warning messages, delayed video signal - in my opinion the SPARK is not useable at all in EC mode, no fun and very dangerous !!!!!!

Since FCC is not an option for Europe, the only way to stabilize the connection to the Spark is to return to a supported OTG support for iOS and Android !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2018-3-29
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Col. Sam Pimton
lvl.1
Thailand
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Vyborny83 Posted at 2018-1-5 00:57
What I tried to explain is that in motorism there are cases when it is legal to cross otherwise valid regulations like the max speed during a manuever to overtake vehicle before you. Therefore it is justifiable to give the people the option to choose to cross the max speed in some cases.

Do you know about any such case in drone flying ? Any valid reason to justify why it would be a good thing to break the local regulations ? So far the only reason you are giving to DJI to implement this feature is so you can intentionally break the law .....

upvote for a good citizen
2018-10-8
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