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Why longer distance with OTG?
1029 27 2018-1-4
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AlanIRL
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Hi guys. I'm looking to be schooled.

Why does the OTG attachment give greater distance? If the OTG is just between the phone and controller, and the controller is then contected to the AC by its own wifi, how does the connection between the phone and controller help to increase distance that can be achived between the controller and the AC?



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hallmark007
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I also think no distance will be gained though some do, btw RC to aircraft connected by radio not by WiFi unless using phone.
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AlanIRL
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Sorry meant Radio :-) To many forms of communication...
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Aeromirage
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I tried an OTG cable and hated it. I found no benefit whatever and many reduced features.
My phone never had any trouble linking to the RC and I now use a Crystalsky which has no trouble either.
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Vyborny83
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The whole point of an OTG cable for some is because in Europe we have much more strict regulations concerning the strength of a WiFi signal and also, the band of 5,8GHz is banned .... (actually it is allowed for short range devices with ludicrously low power .. pretty much useless) and European phones does not support it.

So, the reason why OTG gives you the range boost is because since the phones does not support the 5,8 Ghz, they are forcing you to use the 2,4 GHz between the phone and RC and 5,8GHz between the RC and Spark which gives you a range about 50m if you are lucky.

On the other hand if you use the OTG cable, you can use the 2,4 GHz for RC and Spark and since this band is allowed much more power, the range increases significantly (about 400m in my case) .... that's the whole trick.

Also, ignore Hallmark as he is local troll. We have tried to explain this to him about a thousand times but he still don't want to understand that ;).
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AlanIRL
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OK. So it is Wifi between RC and AC? Ok. I'm starting to get a clearer picture now. You did say that EU phones do not support 5.8GHz but how come my iphone can connect to my local wifi on either 2.4 or 5.8 ?
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Vyborny83
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AlanIRL Posted at 2018-1-4 12:22
OK. So it is Wifi between RC and AC? Ok. I'm starting to get a clearer picture now. You did say that EU phones do not support 5.8GHz but how come my iphone can connect to my local wifi on either 2.4 or 5.8 ?

Because the Iphone uses the American standard FCC and therefore is breaking the european laws (CE standard) ;). There is a thread about that as well. Thats why some users have the same range with and without OTG as well .

Link to the thread https://forum.dji.com/thread-121396-2-2.html . The most important stuff begins in the middle of the second page. There are explained the frequencies allowed in the europe as well as proof that iPhone is violating it ;).
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AlanIRL
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I'm sorry - missed that thread. Apple is BREAKING THE LAW by allowing its EU users to use 5.8 ? Surely if it was that big a deal, a company the size of Apple selling as many phones as they do throughout Europe would have to comply with EU standards! If this is not being imposed on them then that tells me it can't really be that big of an issue. Need to find this other thread.
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AlanIRL
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I have just checked on my APP. V4.1.20 and I can switch between 2.4 and 5.8 easily enough using custom option. I presume the wifi indicator on the main flight status page is the wifi connection between RC and AC. I am not using OTG cable.
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AlanIRL
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The back of my iphone actually has the CE marking, not the FCC marking.
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Raploc
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AlanIRL Posted at 2018-1-4 12:35
I'm sorry - missed that thread. Apple is BREAKING THE LAW by allowing its EU users to use 5.8 ? Surely if it was that big a deal, a company the size of Apple selling as many phones as they do throughout Europe would have to comply with EU standards! If this is not being imposed on them then that tells me it can't really be that big of an issue. Need to find this other thread.

Apple isn't breaking the law. If you are able to connect to your router on 5.8 Ghz chances are that it is set to a FCC region. So technically you are breaking the law.
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Vyborny83
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AlanIRL Posted at 2018-1-4 12:36
I have just checked on my APP. V4.1.20 and I can switch between 2.4 and 5.8 easily enough using custom option. I presume the wifi indicator on the main flight status page is the wifi connection between RC and AC. I am not using OTG cable.

I have added the link to the thread that explains the frequencies above. The problem is not only about apple, some samsung phones that were originally manufactured for non European market are acting the same. If everything was as it should be, everytime they are in Europe they should switch from FCC to CE mode ... but that would degrade their WiFi performance and the users would have the same problems as everybody else ...
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AlanIRL
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Who exactly is enforcing this law? And how can i be breaking a law I have never heard of so easily. SO i buy an iphone in the EU and I buy a router in the EU. And the Router broadcasts at 5.8 and my iPhone gives me the option to chose that 5.8 to connect to, as does just about every other device in my home - Sony Smart TV, 2 iPads, Macbook etc etc. And I am breaking the law?
So half the people in the country are breaking this law unknown to themselves.
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eYeSkYeYe
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Apple is not breaking any laws. It just doesn't babysit their customers when it comes to WiFi.
So, it's the end user choice.
Same like, lets say, the guns or cars... it's not manufacturer responsibility what would you do with it.
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AlanIRL
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Sorry Vyborny83 - where is that link? I can't see it.
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AlanIRL
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Sorry - going blind. Just saw it :-)
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davmau
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Vyborny83 Posted at 2018-1-4 12:15
The whole point of an OTG cable for some is because in Europe we have much more strict regulations concerning the strength of a WiFi signal and also, the band of 5,8GHz is banned .... (actually it is allowed for short range devices with ludicrously low power .. pretty much useless) and European phones does not support it.

So, the reason why OTG gives you the range boost is because since the phones does not support the 5,8 Ghz, they are forcing you to use the 2,4 GHz between the phone and RC and 5,8GHz between the RC and Spark which gives you a range about 50m if you are lucky.

It would be very nice if you would let be these boring explanations. The whole topic you should clarify with Android, Apple, Europa and co. in court or even better, buy an iPhone and look forward to unimaginable expanses. It is trolling me......
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Mildman
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OTG for me is about video connection, as WiFi between the RC and my Android means I lose video signal at about 50metres...so irrespective of how far the Spark 'might' fly, I haven't got video anyway.

I can probably live with the 150-200 range in the UK, it's not range I'm after its video reception, OTG provides that.
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Bright Spark
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While in court, you can also explain why you want to fly further than vlos!
Only joking of course
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AlanIRL
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Something still doesn't make sense. If the phone connects to the RC on 2.4 and that then means the connection between the RC and the AC is forced to use 5.8 - but isn't 5.8 illegal? Either way one of the chains of connection will be 5.8?
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hallmark007
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Vyborny83 Posted at 2018-1-4 12:15
The whole point of an OTG cable for some is because in Europe we have much more strict regulations concerning the strength of a WiFi signal and also, the band of 5,8GHz is banned .... (actually it is allowed for short range devices with ludicrously low power .. pretty much useless) and European phones does not support it.

So, the reason why OTG gives you the range boost is because since the phones does not support the 5,8 Ghz, they are forcing you to use the 2,4 GHz between the phone and RC and 5,8GHz between the RC and Spark which gives you a range about 50m if you are lucky.

Your ignorance knows no bounds.
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Raploc
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AlanIRL Posted at 2018-1-4 12:48
Who exactly is enforcing this law? And how can i be breaking a law I have never heard of so easily. SO i buy an iphone in the EU and I buy a router in the EU. And the Router broadcasts at 5.8 and my iPhone gives me the option to chose that 5.8 to connect to, as does just about every other device in my home - Sony Smart TV, 2 iPads, Macbook etc etc. And I am breaking the law?
So half the people in the country are breaking this law unknown to themselves.

Who is enforcing the speed law in your country? I'll bet you can drive 200 kph in a 50 kph zone right?  until you get caught. Most routers can't be set to a different region. Some can and some like mine can transmit at almost twice the legal tx limit here if I set it to the USA.
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Vyborny83
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AlanIRL Posted at 2018-1-4 12:55
Something still doesn't make sense. If the phone connects to the RC on 2.4 and that then means the connection between the RC and the AC is forced to use 5.8 - but isn't 5.8 illegal? Either way one of the chains of connection will be 5.8?

Exactly, therefore the only way how you are not breaking the law in Europe for sure is by using the OTG cable for the phone and the RC and 2,4GHz for RC and Spark.
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Wachtberger
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AlanIRL Posted at 2018-1-4 12:35
I'm sorry - missed that thread. Apple is BREAKING THE LAW by allowing its EU users to use 5.8 ? Surely if it was that big a deal, a company the size of Apple selling as many phones as they do throughout Europe would have to comply with EU standards! If this is not being imposed on them then that tells me it can't really be that big of an issue. Need to find this other thread.

No, there is exactly one only user in this forum lacking some legal knowledge and keeping to claim that EU laws are being broken ;-)
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AlanIRL
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Raploc Posted at 2018-1-4 13:04
Who is enforcing the speed law in your country? I'll bet you can drive 200 kph in a 50 kph zone right?  until you get caught. Most routers can't be set to a different region. Some can and some like mine can transmit at almost twice the legal tx limit here if I set it to the USA.

Yes, but there is also a legal requirement for the local authorities and councils to post regular signs informing you of the speed limit on the road you are currently on. In fact in some cases speeding fines have been overturned because proof was given that there was too much distance between signs or no sign at all indicating a change of speed limit.
So it also behoves those that set the law to ensure that those expected to follow it are well aware of it. I have contacted 3 of my friends who are in the tech industry in various guises, non admittedly in communications, and none of them have ever heard anything about it. I consider myself fairly tech savy, into photography, computers, general electronics and programming and I have never heard of it.
It just all stinks a bit of EU nonsense. Some rule that someone came up with to justify their wages or something and no one knows anything about it or could be bothered enforcing it and huge companies can get CE certification even when their devices are not in compliance. Has anyone actually ever being prosecuted for using 5.8?
I just googled it and came up with articles where respected newspapers and tech mags from the UK are discussing the pros of cons of 2.4 v 5.8 router set up - Kinda strange that there would be a pro and con discussion when it shouldn't even be an option.
Not sure what to make of it all really. When you look at ridiculous laws that are still enforced in various parts of the world it puts in perspective that anyone could find anyone in violation of some law even if that person just sat staring at the wall all day.
I can only conclude that it is obviously not all that dangerous or important or we would have heard way more about it.
And please don't mention about buying guns and driving cars and its not the manufactures responsibility what you do with them or how you use them - HUGE difference. There is of course responsibility on the manufacturer to meet many standards and provide you with something that in its basic operation does not violate any laws. Indicators have to be a certain colour, lights have to have certain angle, emissions etc etc. Those cars have to clear all sorts of test and regulations before they can go on sale.  
Yes if I am reckless in my use, thats is on me. If I was reckless in my use of AC that would be on me. But if my car breaks emission laws I am not held responsible - ask VW.  
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AlanIRL
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https://drone-traveller.com/drone-laws-europe/#ireland

https://www.pylo.co/blog/list-la ... t-various-countries

Both above sites list many euro countries where 5.8GHz is allowed.  

Some youtube videos demonstrate how to "hack" the Spark into FCC mode but you need to install a modified version of GO4 on an Android phone and make drone believe it is in US.  So that leads me to believe that the drone is in CE mode as standard in the EU unless you hack it. And the communication between phone and RC in 5Ghz is perfectly OK. Perhaps a more amplified version of 5GHz is being utilised after the hack in FCC mode, but the slightly less powerful 5GHz range being used in CE mode is OK.
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Raploc
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AlanIRL Posted at 2018-1-4 13:48
Yes, but there is also a legal requirement for the local authorities and councils to post regular signs informing you of the speed limit on the road you are currently on. In fact in some cases speeding fines have been overturned because proof was given that there was too much distance between signs or no sign at all indicating a change of speed limit.
So it also behoves those that set the law to ensure that those expected to follow it are well aware of it. I have contacted 3 of my friends who are in the tech industry in various guises, non admittedly in communications, and none of them have ever heard anything about it. I consider myself fairly tech savy, into photography, computers, general electronics and programming and I have never heard of it.
It just all stinks a bit of EU nonsense. Some rule that someone came up with to justify their wages or something and no one knows anything about it or could be bothered enforcing it and huge companies can get CE certification even when their devices are not in compliance. Has anyone actually ever being prosecuted for using 5.8?

Well here the legal defence "I didn't know this law existed" won't hold up in court. All our laws are published and free for all to read. But I'm not going to argue about it. The reason why 5Ghz is preferred over 2.4Ghz is congestion on the 2.4ghz channels.Note that I'm not using 5.8Ghz because that is illegal here in the Netherlands to use. I already posted the exact 5Ghz frequencies that I can use in the recommended thread. Not one of them is used by the RC or AC. That's why I would like to use an otg kabel. This would eliminate the 5.8Ghz problem.
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Vyborny83
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AlanIRL Posted at 2018-1-4 14:42
https://drone-traveller.com/drone-laws-europe/#ireland

https://www.pylo.co/blog/list-laws-and-regulations-about-fpv-and-rc-aircraft-various-countries

A word of advise. Don't trust webpages without a trusted source. As to that drone traveller, for Czech Republic they say the max allowed altitude is 100m which is not true. You can fly up to 300m high. The other claimed parameters for CZ were a mess also, you can't trust it.

Please take a look at this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels . The 5,8 GHz is allowed in Europe for short range devices only and with a brutally limited broadcasting power (not sure whether drones fall to that category, when another user asked the local authorities the answer was NO).
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