Hi i have been out doing abit of filming today in the uk and wanted some opinions, i am not happy with the video at some points especially the first 15 seconds if you look at the sand it looks grainy. i was adjusting the shutted speed as i was flying

settings i had were
4K 25 FPS
+1
0
0
D CINELIKE
everything in manual mode
white balance 6500k

I like how smooth the film is and happy with the 4k 25fps but it looks grainy in some places, why is that?

i suggest nd filters -

Just bought the polar pro cinema series. Will that sort out the video stuttering when yawing aswell?

Yes, filters would help.  Also, my impression was that the video was just a bit dark in a few places - perhaps lighten it up in post?    Finally, I'm guessing that the lady with the child mid-way through your video was the wife?  If so, and since you can afford an expensive drone, you should also be able to buy the pretty lady some jeans without holes in the knees.  

Yeah I have found that in areas of dark contrast you really see the compression of the 4K signal with the obvious keyframes.
I try to do a little editing in post to remove this but lightening up the area or avoid getting dark areas with too much detail (rivers and shadows on trees in particular).
Unfortunately there isnt a way around this with Mavics 60mps data limit for 4k.

Just my opinion here, an ND filter wont fix the artifacting you are seeing, it will allow you to set your shutter-speed to the 180 degree rule (double shutter over fps e.g. 25fps shutter at 50, 30fps shutter at 60) This will create the "cinematic" look but for the true "cinematic" feel you need 24fps and a shutter speed at 48 (or 50 if its closest). This will create a small amount of motion blur in your video. This works because of the way the brain processes our dreams and it was found that video shows at 24fps with the 180 degree shutter gave the video a dreamlike feeling.
The issue you are seeing is down to the bitrates that the Mavic captures video footage at and funnily enough, just last night I was looking at the Mavic's video bitrates and doing a little analysis. Taking a short 5 second clip at each resolution and frame-rate I was able to calculate the bits per pixel to try and figure out what is the most optimal resolution to prevent artifacts and capture the cleanest video. Take a look at the data below.


This shows the resolutions, total number of pixels, frame-rates and bitrates. In my basic analysis I calculated the bitrate per frame (bitrate divided by the fps) to give the available bitrate per frame. I then divided this bitrate per frame with the total number of pixels, giving the available bitrate per pixel per frame. I understand that there are compression algorithms that are taking place however these are based on the fact that where there are a lot of pixels changing quickly this is where the bitrate wont be able to keep up during compression. So taking those numbers I produced a chart to show the bitrate per pixel per frame. In a nutshell this shows the available bits per pixel, meaning a longer bar means more data can be captured, meaning less artifacting.


Looking at the chart you can see that 1080p@30fps is the longest bar, this is because 1080p@30fps has a bitrate of 40Mbits/per second, you might say, oh, well, 4k cinematic@30fps has a bitrate of 60Mbits/ps, sure it does, but it also has four times the resolution to compress using that 60Mbits/ps bitrate compared to 1080p. Because of this, 4k video, no matter what resolution are outputting at, the captured footage will still have more artifacting compared to any of the other resolutions.





So my results are that 1080p@30fps will capture the cleanest video footage however it doesn't quite get that cinematic feel using 30fps. 1080p@24fps comes in second and will produce that cinematic feel.
4k, while it looks great and is nice and sharp the bitrate is too low. My personal opinion is that the 4k should be a minimum of 100Mbits/ps but its finding a memory card that can do sustained write at this speed is going to cause issues that DJI wont want to deal with.

Going by the results I would suggest that if you are outputting at 1080p want the cleanest video, use 1080p@30fps and if you want the cinematic feel, go for 1080p@24fps

If you are outputting at 4k use 4k cinematic@24fps

Also remember to use the lowest ISO you possibly can, ideally 100. This will help prevent digital noise, higher ISO's introduce digital noise, this additional noise will the make the compression algorithm have to sacrifice information in some areas of the frame to compensate, the end effect being visual artifacting.

Hope this helps

Very interesting thanks for posting that, I assumed 4k would be the best quality image. I don't like the fact of using 1080 when I have 4k available! There is a big jump with bitrates from 4k and 2.7k so if I want to remove some of the grainy footage I need to lower the resolution but surely there are trade offs when going from 4k to 1080?

From your graph it looks like 2.7k would be the best all round setting

StanfordWebbie Posted at 2018-1-14 15:31
Yes, filters would help.  Also, my impression was that the video was just a bit dark in a few places - perhaps lighten it up in post?    Finally, I'm guessing that the lady with the child mid-way through your video was the wife?  If so, and since you can afford an expensive drone, you should also be able to buy the pretty lady some jeans without holes in the knees.

Yes that is my wife and she thinks it looks "cool" thank you very much  

If it's Your first, I cannot fathom what will be next - Great Job!

alex_markov Posted at 2018-1-15 00:44
If it's Your first, I cannot fathom what will be next - Great Job!

Thank you

Steeevo Posted at 2018-1-15 00:42
Yes that is my wife and she thinks it looks "cool" thank you very much

Right, and for the record, StanfordWebbie so do millions of other women, and even quite a few men!

Steeevo Posted at 2018-1-15 00:38
Very interesting thanks for posting that, I assumed 4k would be the best quality image. I don't like the fact of using 1080 when I have 4k available! There is a big jump with bitrates from 4k and 2.7k so if I want to remove some of the grainy footage I need to lower the resolution but surely there are trade offs when going from 4k to 1080?

From your graph it looks like 2.7k would be the best all round setting

Yeah, 2.7k@24fps would be a good compromise for both resolution and quality of the footage captured.

I feel the same about 4k however most of my other cameras and devices capture at 1080p and I tend to output to youtube or 1080p anyway so capturing at 4k just on one camera is overkill, especially with filesizes and storing them.
I use 1080p@30fps more now as I shoot the same on all my cameras and drones for consistency, i also sometimes use 1080p@60fps for those slow motion captures.

StanfordWebbie Posted at 2018-1-14 15:31
Yes, filters would help.  Also, my impression was that the video was just a bit dark in a few places - perhaps lighten it up in post?    Finally, I'm guessing that the lady with the child mid-way through your video was the wife?  If so, and since you can afford an expensive drone, you should also be able to buy the pretty lady some jeans without holes in the knees.

Malakai_UK Posted at 2018-1-14 17:01
Just my opinion here, an ND filter wont fix the artifacting you are seeing, it will allow you to set your shutter-speed to the 180 degree rule (double shutter over fps e.g. 25fps shutter at 50, 30fps shutter at 60) This will create the "cinematic" look but for the true "cinematic" feel you need 24fps and a shutter speed at 48 (or 50 if its closest). This will create a small amount of motion blur in your video. This works because of the way the brain processes our dreams and it was found that video shows at 24fps with the 180 degree shutter gave the video a dreamlike feeling.
The issue you are seeing is down to the bitrates that the Mavic captures video footage at and funnily enough, just last night I was looking at the Mavic's video bitrates and doing a little analysis. Taking a short 5 second clip at each resolution and frame-rate I was able to calculate the bits per pixel to try and figure out what is the most optimal resolution to prevent artifacts and capture the cleanest video. Take a look at the data below.
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/26758071_448820382200548_4202044090033380318_o.png?oh=b7cc3c37481a3b11c3a1a0e0e356ecd6&oe=5AECF6B8[/img]

This is great information. I've been trying to read and watch videos explaining the 180 rule and when/how to apply it. This post certainly helps and also gives clarification on which setting might be optimal.

The biggest question(s) I have now if regarding ND filters. Most suggest using them, saying they will help the video. But once I select the video settings, say 1080p@24fps, how do I know which ND filter to use? Since I can't set the aperture, is there a setting I can use or look at to know I've selected the correct filter based on the lighting conditions when I'm flying?

CycleParadise Posted at 2018-1-15 12:50
This is great information. I've been trying to read and watch videos explaining the 180 rule and when/how to apply it. This post certainly helps and also gives clarification on which setting might be optimal.

The biggest question(s) I have now if regarding ND filters. Most suggest using them, saying they will help the video. But once I select the video settings, say 1080p@24fps, how do I know which ND filter to use? Since I can't set the aperture, is there a setting I can use or look at to know I've selected the correct filter based on the lighting conditions when I'm flying?

First, put your Mavic Camera in manual mode.

If you don't want to do math in your head, the simplest way it's to set your Mavic camera settings to your desired resolution (1080P/2.7K/4K), frame rate (24fps/30fps) , and shutter speed (1/50th or 1/60th second)... Point your Mavic Pro camera at the scene you want to film, and hold the ND for in front of the lens. If the image is over exposed in the histogram display (the distribution is all the way to the right), then you need a stronger ND filter... Or vice versa.

If you don't mind doing simple math, then set your camera settings as desired, point your camera at the scene, and see how far under or over exposed the scene is with your current settings (the camera display tells you, "+2ev", or "-3ev" etc). A scene that is 1ev over exposed  means you should adjust your camera settings to allow half as much light to hit the sensor. You can do this by changing the aperture, frame rate, shutter speed, or... ND filter!  Since you don't want to change your frame rate, or shutter speed, and you can't change your aperture on the Mavic Pro, you change your ND filter:

ND4 reduces light by 2 stops
ND8 reduces light by 3 stops
ND16 reduces light by 4 stops
ND32 reduces light by 5 stops

There will be times when you simply won't get the perfect combination of ND filter and frame rate to get that 180 degree shutter angle, in which case you just have to do the best you can and choose what you want to do (change shutter speed/ND filter/try to correct in post production etc).

CycleParadise Posted at 2018-1-15 12:50
This is great information. I've been trying to read and watch videos explaining the 180 rule and when/how to apply it. This post certainly helps and also gives clarification on which setting might be optimal.

The biggest question(s) I have now if regarding ND filters. Most suggest using them, saying they will help the video. But once I select the video settings, say 1080p@24fps, how do I know which ND filter to use? Since I can't set the aperture, is there a setting I can use or look at to know I've selected the correct filter based on the lighting conditions when I'm flying?

I mentioned the histogram, but didn't say how important it is to learn how to use it. It's the most important display in the DJI Go 4 app! Adjust your settings and ND selection so that the curve is distributed between the right and left edge of the graph.

If the curve is pushing up against the right edge, then your highlights are over exposed and will show no detail (just white). If the curve is pushing against the left edge of the graph, then your shadows are under exposed and will not show any detail (just black).

Sometimes, a scene simply cannot be properly exposed, and you have to make a creative choice... Expose correctly for the highlights and let the shadows be under exposed (crush the blacks), or expose correctly for the shadows and let the highlights be over exposed (anything over exposed will show as white). In post production you can often pull some detail back from under exposed shadows, but you can't recover anything from over exposed areas of the image.

Jyunte Posted at 2018-1-15 13:48
First, put your Mavic Camera in manual mode.

If you don't want to do math in your head, the simplest way it's to set your Mavic camera settings to your desired resolution (1080P/2.7K/4K), frame rate (24fps/30fps) , and shutter speed (1/50th or 1/60th second)... Point your Mavic Pro camera at the scene you want to film, and hold the ND for in front of the lens. If the image is over exposed in the histogram display (the distribution is all the way to the right), then you need a stronger ND filter... Or vice versa.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, a hundred thank yous!!

This is what I was looking for but couldn't find. Or my brain wasn't big enough to comprehend it. Your explanation is perfect.

Now that I understand better, I'll feel confident in buying ND filters and using them.

Again, thank you!!

Jyunte Posted at 2018-1-15 14:01
I mentioned the histogram, but didn't say how important it is to learn how to use it. It's the most important display in the DJI Go 4 app! Adjust your settings and ND selection so that the curve is distributed between the right and left edge of the graph.

If the curve is pushing up against the right edge, then your highlights are over exposed and will show no detail (just white). If the curve is pushing against the left edge of the graph, then your shadows are under exposed and will not show any detail (just black).

And thank you for the explanation of the histogram and its importance. I've done some reading on using the histogram. I'll read up on it more and get to using it properly.

I can't wait to put this into practice!!

Some great input here

For getting the balance with or without ND filters this is my workflow.

• Set Manual shooting mode
• Turn on the histogram and zebras (zebras will show blown/over exposure on screen, histogram for exposure)
• Manual white balance
• Decide the resolution and frame-rate you are shooting in then set the shutter to the 180 rule, for example: 1080p@60fps use a shutter of 120, 4k@24fps use a shutter of 50, 2.7k@30fps use a shutter of 60. You get the idea.
• Set ISO 200 (I use ISO 200 as the start ISO because once I'm up in the air to take the shot and if I have already chosen a ND filter, I have the ability to either drop the ISO down to 100 to bring the exposure down a little or push it up to 400 if I need more light, all without having to bring the aircraft back to change the filter.)
• Shoot using D-Log +1,-0,-0 (I use +1 sharpness to disable the built in noise filter, its a bit crap.)
• Point the mavic roughly where im going to shoot to get an idea of exposure levels.
• If the scene is blown way out I need to use a ND filter to bring the exposure down. Hold one at a time in front of the lens until the exposure is good.
• If the scene is good and I dont need an ND filter Ill drop the ISO to 100 to reduce noise, I can always push it back to 200 if the image gets too dark.
• If the scene is too dark I don't need a ND filter but need to push the ISO up a little. Ideally nothing over 800 but this is up to you.
• Set the white balance for the scene.
• Take the shot, the video will have a cinematic look because of the 180 shutter rule and your exposure should be great to work with.
  

Note: Its important that any highlights are correctly exposed and not blown, keep the zebra stripes as little as possible in the white areas. This will help with dynamic range because the D-Log profile will take care of the detail in the shadows as much as possible and post processing will allow you to restore the shadows but retain the detail.

Take the shot.
The video will have a cinematic look because of the 180 shutter rule and your exposure should be great to work with in post.

I cant really help, just wanted to say that it was a real nice video overall (Y)

Thanks letobbz, some good information on here thanks for all your help, I was using the histogram while shooting this video it's a great tool and really helps when you cant see your phone screen very well. also I havnt worked out that "zebra" thing yet but can see it being very helpful.

So what I gather if worst comes to worst it's better to under expose and rectify when editing?

Steeevo Posted at 2018-1-16 03:26
Thanks letobbz, some good information on here thanks for all your help, I was using the histogram while shooting this video it's a great tool and really helps when you cant see your phone screen very well. also I havnt worked out that "zebra" thing yet but can see it being very helpful.

So what I gather if worst comes to worst it's better to under expose and rectify when editing?

The zebras will show you areas that are either under exposed or over exposed. Those areas will have no information. Meaning, each pixel has a data a value for its brightness from 0-255 (0 being black and 255 being white). If a pixel or group of pixels are 0 value then there is no information in that area, its under exposed and you wont be able to adjust it in post to bring any data back. Same for 255, they are pure white and no information can be gathered from that. The zebras have a threshold where DJI have determined a level where there may still be enough information in those pixels, its probably around the value 5 to 250. Basically anything between a value of 0-4 is classed as under exposed and the zebra stripes will show. Anything between 5-250 will be classed as exposed. Anything between 251-255 is classed as over exposed and the zebras will show.

As you say, it can be difficult sometimes to see what the image looks like on the screen. This is why using the histogram for overall exposure, the zebras to adjust exposure so you don't over/under expose and focus peaking to determine whats in focus. These tools will help to no end to capture the best video you can.

Where about's in the UK are you from? I'm in the midlands. Would be nice to see if we can get a local group together to fly and share ideas.

don't use style 1+ for sharpness, you get noise!!. Use neat noise reduction if you use 1+ in post reduction.

Jos A Posted at 2018-1-16 04:38
don't use style 1+ for sharpness, you get noise!!. Use neat noise reduction if you use 1+ in post reduction.

This I do!
I'd rather have a bit of extra noise to deal with than the mush that comes out normally because of the built in NR.

I have good results on uhd 30 fps manual/balance sunny/cloud/ iso 100 / shutter 60 style 0,-2,-2 and dlog

This sharpness malarkey is confusing some say +1 some say -1. I have played with it while hovering and cant see anything change?

Steeevo Posted at 2018-1-16 05:55
This sharpness malarkey is confusing some say +1 some say -1. I have played with it while hovering and cant see anything change?

You will see it in areas like trees or grass. Basically 0 and below sharpness activate built in noise reduction so in some areas of trees for example you might get areas of the trees that look like they are blurred all into a blob. +1 sharpness supposedly turns the NR off and stops this but applies slight over-sharpening to the point of introducing some extra noise in the image. You can use noise removal during post process but its an extra step in the editing process. For the average user 0 should be good enough. +1 will need a bit more work in post.

Very nice...

At 1:29/1:30 you had a close call

Yes I did, there are a lot of seagulls around here and I'm sure one day they will attack the mavic, they always fly around it to see what it is.

Malakai_UK Posted at 2018-1-16 02:23
Some great input here

For getting the balance with or without ND filters this is my workflow.

Some more great info!!

Thanks for sharing your workflow. That will certainly help when I head out to fly.

Malakai_UK Posted at 2018-1-16 06:25
You will see it in areas like trees or grass. Basically 0 and below sharpness activate built in noise reduction so in some areas of trees for example you might get areas of the trees that look like they are blurred all into a blob. +1 sharpness supposedly turns the NR off and stops this but applies slight over-sharpening to the point of introducing some extra noise in the image. You can use noise removal during post process but its an extra step in the editing process. For the average user 0 should be good enough. +1 will need a bit more work in post.

I've seen posts which suggest DJI changed camera settings in a firmware update, and now the +1 sharpness setting is no longer the optimal choice. They certainly changed the color styles! Have you tested different picture styles recently? I think the latest I've seen recommended is 0,-3,-3.

Jyunte Posted at 2018-1-18 00:07
I've seen posts which suggest DJI changed camera settings in a firmware update, and now the +1 sharpness setting is no longer the optimal choice. They certainly changed the color styles! Have you tested different picture styles recently? I think the latest I've seen recommended is 0,-3,-3.

Im going to have to have a look into this, thanks for pointing it out

Malakai_UK Posted at 2018-1-18 01:50
Im going to have to have a look into this, thanks for pointing it out

Thanks for your input in this thread. I could learn a lot by just reading your post. I would appreciate if you could also let us know your results for the camera settings. I have heard and read so many different opinions that it would be nice to have something reliable and up to date ;-)

yes filters will help

Silverhammer92 Posted at 2018-1-18 04:21
Thanks for your input in this thread. I could learn a lot by just reading your post. I would appreciate if you could also let us know your results for the camera settings. I have heard and read so many different opinions that it would be nice to have something reliable and up to date ;-)

No problem, I'm hoping this weekend the weather holds up and ill have enough time to get out and play. I have some events coming up in March I want to capture so need to get everything nailed down before then.

Same here, I have got a good location sorted this weekend with clearance from the local airport as its in their airspace. hopefully it will stay bright

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this topic. Im new to Mavic flying and have been looking at quite a few videos and posts on settings for smooth flying and settings for cinematic filming. But at this point i want to capture film good enough to post process and share through youtube or other sites. I have started a notebook documenting my Mavic settings and for each flight what filters and film modes i use. Learn as i go!

Jyunte Posted at 2018-1-18 00:07
I've seen posts which suggest DJI changed camera settings in a firmware update, and now the +1 sharpness setting is no longer the optimal choice. They certainly changed the color styles! Have you tested different picture styles recently? I think the latest I've seen recommended is 0,-3,-3.

Just had a play indoors with the colour styles, it would appear NR is still applied when sharpness is set to 0,-1,-2 and -3, you will still get mush in areas with it set to 0. Noise at +1 (@ iso 400) are manageable so anything below ISO 400 will be ok.
D-LOG for the picture style all the way as this will adjust the curve to capture more detail in the shadows, this is then put back to normal in post and then colour grading and LUTS applied. This site might help if you dont get it.

My conclusion is that I'm going to stick with D-Log and CS +1,0,0