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100Mb/s now? Zenmuze X5 and Mavic Pro?
1146 14 2018-1-23
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Armando R A G
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After seeing the new mavic air, that it has a 100Mb/s bitrate...Can we now get a firmware upgrade for the zenmuse X5 and mavic pro that allows 100mb/s bit rate?

If is not much to ask



2018-1-23
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Farnk666
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Bitrate performance is limited by hardware as well as software - Doubtful that a firmware update could deliver that sort of performance increase.
The X5 is a relatively old camera now.
2018-1-23
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DJI Mindy
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Farnk666 Posted at 2018-1-23 17:41
Bitrate performance is limited by hardware as well as software - Doubtful that a firmware update could deliver that sort of performance increase.
The X5 is a relatively old camera now.

I must say I agree with you, X5 has been released for a very long time and I don't think the bitrate would be improved by the firmware upgrade. So does the Mavic Pro.
2018-1-24
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Armando R A G
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Farnk666 Posted at 2018-1-23 17:41
Bitrate performance is limited by hardware as well as software - Doubtful that a firmware update could deliver that sort of performance increase.
The X5 is a relatively old camera now.

In the case of the X5 the bitrate is only limited by firmware. The "escuse" when it was launched was that the memory cards at the time weren't fast enough.Well, that was solved a long time ago.

This camera is a professional grade camera, is "normal" to get firmware upgrades after some time. Is a small improvement in the video quality, is a shame that a camera so good, that captures so many information can not store it fast enough and part of that info is lost in the way.

2018-1-24
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Armando R A G
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DJI Mindy Posted at 2018-1-24 00:06
I must say I agree with you, X5 has been released for a very long time and I don't think the bitrate would be improved by the firmware upgrade. So does the Mavic Pro.

DJI still sell's it and for what i know is not discontinued, so, is not impossible. Besides, it's sold has a professional camera, usual to have upgrades after a long time, even with new models.
I think is more of a marketing strategy from DJI, but this a feature that will not stop clients of upgrading from the Inspire 1 to the 2.
2018-1-24
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Matthew Dobrski
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This issue was discussed long time ago to death and concluded. The on-board processor used for X5 camera recording doesn't allow for faster than 60Mbps bitrate. It has nothing to do with modern SD cards  capabilities, it's a computing limitation of camera itself. Indeed, DJI was a bit behind available technology at the time, but it is what it is and nothing can be done to improve video quality of Zenmuse X5 camera.
2018-1-24
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Farnk666
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What would be great (dreaming here, but stay with me) is for the original X mount to be opened up and the spec made available for supporting 3rd Party gimbals.
As DJI has moved onto the next generation X mount with the I2 and a new revenue stream, alternative sensor options for the older platform would be awesome.

I use the X3, X5 and XT on my Inspire, but an ability to use a 360 cam, a small mirrorless like a Sony RX or even something like a Parrot sequoia would be great.

Not going to happen, but wouldn't it be wonderful!.
2018-1-24
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Advocate
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Matthew Dobrski Posted at 2018-1-24 21:16
This issue was discussed long time ago to death and concluded. The on-board processor used for X5 camera recording doesn't allow for faster than 60Mbps bitrate. It has nothing to do with modern SD cards  capabilities, it's a computing limitation of camera itself. Indeed, DJI was a bit behind available technology at the time, but it is what it is and nothing can be done to improve video quality of Zenmuse X5 camera.

The onboard processor DOES allow for higher bitrates than 60Mb/s, saying that it doesn't is incorrect.  The 60Mb/s bitrate is a CHOICE by DJI NOT a limitation of the hardware.

There is some work going into trying to up the bitrate but as far as I know the guy isn't getting anywhere with it.  In his last post he confirmed that 80Mb/s at least was possible, but he may have been talking about the X3 camera.

Can someone from DJI PLEASE ask your engineers to increase the bitrate of the X5 camera?  
2018-5-3
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mixchief
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What about the X5R?
2018-5-3
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Advocate
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The X5R?  That's a beast of a camera that records both 60Mb/s H.264 to the SD card whilst simultaneously recording RAW 4k video to an onboard SSD at a whopping 2.4Gb/s!

I've been looking at buying an X5R but seeing how DJI have crippled the X5 and refuse to even acknowledge that the 60Mb/s bitrate is hampering it is really putting me off investing even more money with DJI.
2018-5-3
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mixchief
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Advocate Posted at 2018-5-3 11:44
The X5R?  That's a beast of a camera that records both 60Mb/s H.264 to the SD card whilst simultaneously recording RAW 4k video to an onboard SSD at a whopping 2.4Gb/s!

I've been looking at buying an X5R but seeing how DJI have crippled the X5 and refuse to even acknowledge that the 60Mb/s bitrate is hampering it is really putting me off investing even more money with DJI.

It is an amazing camera compared to the X5, so why would DJI make the X5 into an X5R? It makes no business sense, specially now that their focus is completely on the newer products. I was lucky to find a very reasonably priced X5R and sold the X5 at a price that made sense  to make the upward move. Something that could have cost me $3000 ended in the long run costing me $600. Again I reiterate, there is no point in waiting , hoping or otherwise thinking that the X5 is going to be improved, it already was and it's called the X5R.
2018-5-4
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Advocate
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Increasing the bitrate of the X5 to 100Mb/s, or even 200Mb/s would in no way turn the X5 into an X5R, not even close.  But it would give those of us that bought a "professional" camera a picture quality more in line with what DJI advertised it to be.  At the moment the quality of the movie files coming off my X5 camera couldn't be considered "professional", and I doubt they would even be considered "prosumer" either.

I'm (we're) not asking DJI to turn the X5 into an X5R, we're just asking for the quality that was advertised.
[EDIT] I'm in no way saying that DJI, or any of the DJI employees on this board have lied to us.  Not at all.  But they did advertise the X5 camera as a "professional" camera, and continue to do so even today (Osmo Pro, Inspire 1 Pro) when in reality most production companies won't accept video files at 60Mb/s, much less the even lower bitrates that the X5 writes for 1080p files.
What would make me over the moon is if DJI would increase the bitrate of all video files that the X5 writes to SD Card.  The next best thing would be if we could see an increase in the lower resolution bitrates up to the 60Mb/s current bitrate of 4k (I'd rather have high quality 2.7k than low quality 4k).

From what I can gather, so far we've had two seperate reasons for why the bitrate is limited to 60Mb/s,

1) That's the highest bitrate the cards can accept.
2) That's the highest bitrate the CPU can write.

Firstly, the micro SD cards that the X5 accepts are capable of bitrates MUCH higher than 60Mb/s.
The X5 uses the Ambarella A9 CPU which is capable of writing at bitrates higher than 60Mb/s.  A google search for "ambarella a9 bitrates" leads to this https://www.ambarella.com/uploads/docs/A9-product-brief.pdf which lists the A9 as being capable of "H.264 codex BP/MP/HP Level 5.1 and MJPEG", stick THAT into gfoogle and it ledas you to this http://blog.mediacoderhq.com/h264-profiles-and-levels/ which lists the maximum attainable bitrates for H.264 Level 5.1 as 240Mb/s for baseline, extended and main profiles, and 300Mb/s for high profile, which the A9 CPU is listed as being compatible with.

So please don't tell us that there are technical reasons why the bitrate can't be increased DJI. [/EDIT]


2018-5-4
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Matthew Dobrski
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Advocate Posted at 2018-5-4 07:34
Increasing the bitrate of the X5 to 100Mb/s, or even 200Mb/s would in no way turn the X5 into an X5R, not even close.  But it would give those of us that bought a "professional" camera a picture quality more in line with what DJI advertised it to be.  At the moment the quality of the movie files coming off my X5 camera couldn't be considered "professional", and I doubt they would even be considered "prosumer" either.

I'm (we're) not asking DJI to turn the X5 into an X5R, we're just asking for the quality that was advertised.

Advocate, drop it, please! Technically possible or not, achievable or not, DJI will NOT invest into further development of X5 camera firmware. Period. All your doubts and arguments have been articulated loudly and clearly on numerous media good 2 years ago, when way cheaper Phantom 4 Pro camera killed all older siblings. For whatever reason, the answer is NO... And, oh, don't be so naive in believing that the Pro word used in product name means anything these days ...
2018-5-5
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Advocate
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Matthew Dobrski Posted at 2018-5-5 10:47
Advocate, drop it, please! Technically possible or not, achievable or not, DJI will NOT invest into further development of X5 camera firmware. Period. All your doubts and arguments have been articulated loudly and clearly on numerous media good 2 years ago, when way cheaper Phantom 4 Pro camera killed all older siblings. For whatever reason, the answer is NO... And, oh, don't be so naive in believing that the Pro word used in product name means anything these days ...

I’m merely replying to posts that contain incorrect information.  If DJI  just came out with it and said “You’re not getting it because we don’t want to do it” I’d happily accept it.  I just hate being fed rubbish like “I’m afraid the hardware doesn’t support it” which implies a willingness to provide “if only we could” when the reality is they just plain don’t want to.

But having said all of this, you’re right, it’s time to let it lie...the weather has improved here in the UK enough for me to go out and fly these wonderful machines instead of moaning about what they don’t do ;)
2018-5-5
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Matthew Dobrski
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Advocate Posted at 2018-5-5 16:15
I’m merely replying to posts that contain incorrect information.  If DJI  just came out with it and said “You’re not getting it because we don’t want to do it” I’d happily accept it.  I just hate being fed rubbish like “I’m afraid the hardware doesn’t support it” which implies a willingness to provide “if only we could” when the reality is they just plain don’t want to.

But having said all of this, you’re right, it’s time to let it lie...the weather has improved here in the UK enough for me to go out and fly these wonderful machines instead of moaning about what they don’t do ;)

3 x thank you, finally you've got the idea! Life's not fair, enjoy it as much as you can ...
2018-5-5
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