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iceman#1
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Germany
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Can anyone enlighten me, why the transmission distance on the Air is double of the Spark range, althought the Transmission Power is the same on both?
I thought you'd need more dBm to gain more range...
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2018-1-24
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Wachtberger
Captain
Flight distance : 261509 ft
Germany
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No it's related to the transmission system. Also Mavic Pro has the same transmission power but theoretical 7 km in FCC:
Transmitter Power (EIRP)        FCC:<=26 dBm
CE:<=20 dBm
SRRC: <=20 dBm
MIC: <=18 dBm

The transmission system used in Pro is called Occusync, in Air it's called Enhanced WiFi and in Spark just WiFi. What the tecnical differences specifically are I don't know because as far as I understood all three are WiFi but on different standards. One relevant element for Air seem to be the external antennas in the front landing feet.
2018-1-24
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Ex Machina
Captain
Flight distance : 1784344 ft
United States
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The marketing materials state the Air uses Enhanced WiFi, whereas the Spark uses plain old WiFi. Given that transmission power is more or less the same, I'm guessing some sort of signal processing allows for more effective use before signal degradation?
2018-1-24
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iceman#1
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Germany
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Thanks Wachterberger and Ex Machina for the explanation. Then my hopes are high. Especially because the Air is using OTG as standard connection between phone and remote, where the Spark uses Wifi which sucks hard. A lot of lag and stutter using WiFi over OTG
2018-1-24
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marcel_911
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Flight distance : 18901 ft
United Kingdom
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What annoys me is the CE:2000m part. We in the UK only get HALF the range of the US. Not fair. I don't want to fly beyond 2000m probably but I don't want to be on the edge of transmitter range all the time. It would be nice to have some extra range in the bank to help if there are obstructions.
2018-1-27
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Wachtberger
Captain
Flight distance : 261509 ft
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marcel_911 Posted at 2018-1-27 15:17
What annoys me is the CE:2000m part. We in the UK only get HALF the range of the US. Not fair. I don't want to fly beyond 2000m probably but I don't want to be on the edge of transmitter range all the time. It would be nice to have some extra range in the bank to help if there are obstructions.

You are legally obliged to always fly in Visual Line Of Sight (VLOS). Now tell me in which distance do you believe to still see your Mavic Air or any other drone with your eyes? ;-)
2018-1-27
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hallmark007
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Here this might explain why.
2018-1-28
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iceman#1
lvl.4
Germany
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where did you find this info?
2018-1-29
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iceman#1
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Germany
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Wachtberger Posted at 2018-1-27 15:58
You are legally obliged to always fly in Visual Line Of Sight (VLOS). Now tell me in which distance do you believe to still see your Mavic Air or any other drone with your eyes? ;-)

it's not to have the ability to fly that farm, it's more like a guarantor to have a good FPV connection between drone and controller. we all know that 2000m is theoretical. But if 2000m laboratory conditions equals to 500m real life great transmission, I'd be fine with that.
2018-1-29
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Wachtberger
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Flight distance : 261509 ft
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iceman#1 Posted at 2018-1-29 05:52
it's not to have the ability to fly that farm, it's more like a guarantor to have a good FPV connection between drone and controller. we all know that 2000m is theoretical. But if 2000m laboratory conditions equals to 500m real life great transmission, I'd be fine with that.

That applies to me as well. In this thread you'll find a video with range test: https://forum.dji.com/forum.php? ... D534%26typeid%3D534
There it was stable until 2 km.
2018-1-29
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iceman#1
lvl.4
Germany
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first range test video online:

2000m in FCC 5.8GHz mode
like anticipated, way less than the 4000m (5.8GHz) on spec sheet.

to assume that it will only fly 250m (half of the 500m CE 5.8GHz spec sheet) here in Germany is making me upset
2018-1-29
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netzwerg
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Germany
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iceman#1 Posted at 2018-1-29 06:03
first range test video online:
https://youtu.be/8ucWx7eqnfU
2000m in FCC 5.8GHz mode

In Germany you are only allowed to fly in Sichtweite (visual range) so 250m is more than enough for a small drone.
2018-1-29
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hallmark007
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iceman#1 Posted at 2018-1-29 06:03
first range test video online:
https://youtu.be/8ucWx7eqnfU
2000m in FCC 5.8GHz mode

Ridiculous I can fly my spark 600 metres without any problems, I’m using 2.4ghz and I’m CE.
2018-1-29
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iceman#1
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Germany
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netzwerg Posted at 2018-1-29 06:39
In Germany you are only allowed to fly in Sichtweite (visual range) so 250m is more than enough for a small drone.

Maybe for you, but on private property I need more than 250m just to have more security in FPV transmission...
2018-1-29
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Griffith
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Flight distance : 98537 ft
United States
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The power levels quoted in the specs are just the maximum allowed by FCC or CE, not the actual transmitted power (see Hallmark's chart for actual transmit power). In addition the antenna design and placement can enhance (or not) the effective radiated power (which is not regulated).
2018-1-29
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Griffith
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hallmark007 Posted at 2018-1-29 06:57
Ridiculous I can fly my spark 600 metres without any problems, I’m using 2.4ghz and I’m CE.

Effective range is determined as much by local interference as it is by transmit power.  Pilots should expect a shorter range in areas where there may be elevated background transmission or structural interference.
2018-1-29
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Griffith
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Ex Machina Posted at 2018-1-24 08:55
The marketing materials state the Air uses Enhanced WiFi, whereas the Spark uses plain old WiFi. Given that transmission power is more or less the same, I'm guessing some sort of signal processing allows for more effective use before signal degradation?

I'm not sure what the name 'Enhanced WIFI' applies to, exactly.  But I'm sure you're correct - they're probably using multiple channels, wider bandwiths and algorithms to reduce noise and packet loss.
2018-1-29
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Wachtberger
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iceman#1 Posted at 2018-1-29 08:10
Maybe for you, but on private property I need more than 250m just to have more security in FPV transmission...

I shall do a test when I have received mine on a nearby open field without any buildings or streets where I won't put anyone at risk and report back. But I won't go beyond 1 km and do it for this one test only. If connection remains stable, users in Europe get well more than they should need. We'll see.
Edit: It should also be noted that the test video above has been made with 5.8 Ghz connection because in FCC mode it makes no difference in terms of range. In Europe 2.4 Ghz connection should be used when flying in areas with low WiFi disturbance.
2018-1-29
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sica
First Officer
Flight distance : 679 ft
Israel
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DJI should allow for increased transmission power. Each to do so on his own responsibility. The laws of many countries restrict the amplitude of the emission ... unfortunately ... I do not want 4Km with a signal at the limit ... only 1.5 Km with stable signal !!!
2018-1-29
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Wirezfree
Second Officer
Flight distance : 17999 ft
United Kingdom
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sica Posted at 2018-1-29 09:30
DJI should allow for increased transmission power. Each to do so on his own responsibility. The laws of many countries restrict the amplitude of the emission ... unfortunately ... I do not want 4Km with a signal at the limit ... only 1.5 Km with stable signal !!!


Unfortunately when it comes to Radio Transmission DJI will have to certify compliance.
Each country have local regulations, but there are some standards and partial harmonisation.

In Europe it is ETSI who manage the standards.
There are various standards for Frequency, Power and Modulation type.

DJI use 2.4/5.8GHz and Power is per country regs,
but no idea what "Modulation" they use.?,
In the EU(ETSI) depending on modulation, this can also affect power level.

Edit...
I forgot there is also the ITU involved in specifications/standards
2018-1-29
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Wachtberger
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sica Posted at 2018-1-29 09:30
DJI should allow for increased transmission power. Each to do so on his own responsibility. The laws of many countries restrict the amplitude of the emission ... unfortunately ... I do not want 4Km with a signal at the limit ... only 1.5 Km with stable signal !!!

This is not in DJIs hands. If they do not comply with the standards, they don't get the CE label allowing them to sell their products in Europe. Making it manually switchable independent from location would already be a no go for the CE label.
2018-1-29
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sica
First Officer
Flight distance : 679 ft
Israel
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uff ... laws remain laws ... we meet and ready ...
2018-1-29
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I am Sparkacus
lvl.4
Flight distance : 94626 ft
United Kingdom
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Just got mine this morning from John Lewis online I can say that I went to the end of my neighbors fields (I have their permission) and the Air was flawless it’s about 600m and I was just about able to see it hence why that is as far as I would go. My Spark would be acting crazy and hardly sending an image at the same range (still love that little fella though).  I know as I flew it within minutes as a test!

Massively impressed with the 22 minute flight! Goodness it’s so quick and I’ve not even entertained sports mode! Love it!
2018-1-29
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Wirezfree
Second Officer
Flight distance : 17999 ft
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iceman#1 Posted at 2018-1-29 08:10
Maybe for you, but on private property I need more than 250m just to have more security in FPV transmission...


Unfortunately what "you need" and what you get are not in the hands of DJI.
They want to sell products... So "DJI need" to comply

2018-1-29
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iceman#1
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Germany
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I am Sparkacus Posted at 2018-1-29 10:45
Just got mine this morning from John Lewis online I can say that I went to the end of my neighbors fields (I have their permission) and the Air was flawless it’s about 600m and I was just about able to see it hence why that is as far as I would go. My Spark would be acting crazy and hardly sending an image at the same range (still love that little fella though).  I know as I flew it within minutes as a test!

Massively impressed with the 22 minute flight! Goodness it’s so quick and I’ve not even entertained sports mode! Love it!

that was a fast delivery then.
Great to hear that you are happy with your purchase. I'll sell my Spark, because the Air is the Spark I always wanted.
In which setting did you fly? 5.8GHz FCC?

I wonder why the guy in the video is flying 5.8GHz anyhow. I thought the Air is using 2.4GHz as default. Why should he use 5.8 when being in the middle of nowehere
2018-1-29
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iceman#1
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Germany
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Wachtberger Posted at 2018-1-29 08:45
I shall do a test when I have received mine on a nearby open field without any buildings or streets where I won't put anyone at risk and report back. But I won't go beyond 1 km and do it for this one test only. If connection remains stable, users in Europe get well more than they should need. We'll see.
Edit: It should also be noted that the test video above has been made with 5.8 Ghz connection because in FCC mode it makes no difference in terms of range. In Europe 2.4 Ghz connection should be used when flying in areas with low WiFi disturbance.

looking forward to that
2018-1-29
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MarWu
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Flight distance : 11555 ft
Germany
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Hi,

just found two Videos with range tests for CE Standards. Looks pretty promising.

<a href=""><a href="
2018-1-30
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MarWu
lvl.2
Flight distance : 11555 ft
Germany
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That didn't worked as planned...



2018-1-30
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iceman#1
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MarWu Posted at 2018-1-30 00:49
That didn't worked as planned...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-LmjtyLWzE

second video seems very promising. First is questionable because of the high wind velocity.
2018-1-30
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MarWu
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iceman#1 Posted at 2018-1-30 05:47
second video seems very promising. First is questionable because of the high wind velocity.

Yes. However for CE Standard I am very happy to see a range which is beyond the Spark's disappointing range tests. It isn't important for me whether the MA reaches exactly the promised range or not, but a stable connection in the visible range is important for me, in which the spark failed in my oppinion.
2018-1-30
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iceman#1
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MarWu Posted at 2018-1-30 06:07
Yes. However for CE Standard I am very happy to see a range which is beyond the Spark's disappointing range tests. It isn't important for me whether the MA reaches exactly the promised range or not, but a stable connection in the visible range is important for me, in which the spark failed in my oppinion.

that's exactly what I'm looking for. A stable and lag free connection in a visible range.
I highly believe the default OTA connection between phone and controller is making a huge difference.
2018-1-30
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Matioupi
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France
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In a sketchy first approach, range from transmitter A to receiver B depends of :

- emitted power of A
- gain of antenna A (which "focuses" the radio waves)
- free space losses at the signal frequency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_path_loss)
- gain of receiver B antenna (focuses radio wave at reception)
- sensitivity of receiver B (i.e. receiver capability to sort out received signal from noise)

The sensitivity and capability  to sort out the signal from noise is also a function of the bandwidth of the transmitted signal : for a given transmit power, il you use a lower bandwidth (transmit less information or pack it more efficiently), it will be easier to sort out the signal from noise at reception time.
I'm pretty sure the Mavic Air uses receivers with higher sensitivty. USe antennas with slighlty higher gains, and uses lower bandwidth channels. Also they may have shifted the channel center vs regular wifi frequencies to escape a part of interferences.

2018-1-30
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Ozziebattler
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marcel_911 Posted at 2018-1-27 15:17
What annoys me is the CE:2000m part. We in the UK only get HALF the range of the US. Not fair. I don't want to fly beyond 2000m probably but I don't want to be on the edge of transmitter range all the time. It would be nice to have some extra range in the bank to help if there are obstructions.

I was just reading a guy with stock Air went out 4800 meters
and he was in the UK
2018-1-30
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iceman#1
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Germany
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So it seems range won't be a problem. But when it comes to the second video here,I see a lot of lag and artefacts going on in the FPV.
Looking forward to test out my Air soon. Still not shipped though

2018-1-30
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MarWu
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Flight distance : 11555 ft
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The artefacts are due to the phone's lack of performance as commented on youtube:
"it is because my android phone running too slow, did not behave like this in normal flight"

2018-1-31
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MarWu
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Matioupi Posted at 2018-1-30 13:09
In a sketchy first approach, range from transmitter A to receiver B depends of :

- emitted power of A

Assuming that the FCC range for FCC with 631 mW (2,4 GHz) and 1259 mW (5,8 GHz) is reached and assuming that the received power decreases with ^2 of the distance, you could calculate the range for the CE standard by:

range_CE = range_FCC * sqrt(power_CE / power_FCC)

Whith these assumptions you get 1,4 km (2,4 GHz) and 563 m (5,8 GHz). Just to be clear...these are basic calculations, which only take the emitted power into account and none of the other mentioned factors of influence.
2018-1-31
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hallmark007
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iceman#1 Posted at 2018-1-30 22:28
https://youtu.be/M73mup1EeAY

https://youtu.be/uCbx8-e-8_U

Here’s another test.

2018-1-31
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A CW
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OcuSync is primarily designed for FPV whereby the WiFi transmission is enhanced above that of normal WiFi by taking away from the image quality in order to improve the latency, live feed and enable simultaneous transmission to multiple devices whilst maximising transmission range. That is why the Pro can be used with dual remotes, transmit 1080p FHD to the live feed and connect wirelessly to Goggles - which were originally designed for the Mavic Pro.
If you wave your hand slowly in front of the MA or Spark camera and look at the motion on your device screen you will notice a slight delay - it’s instantaneous using OcuSync. Signal breakage is very rare too due to the vast number of channels and even band width that the RC will select. That is why you can fly the Mavic Pro 13,000 feet away from you in a European country and still see exactly the same quality in the live feed as if the drone were in front of you. WiFi only transmission in drones are designed not to take from the image and impact compression but will have many draw backs in return - including signal disconnects at shorter range and being more susceptible to interference - especially WiFi and electromagnetism.
2018-1-31
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Bulldog
First Officer
Flight distance : 816158 ft
United States
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LOL. Guys, the air blows. The distance blows. The battery life blows. Not sure how many video's have to be done before people realize it.
2018-1-31
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iceman#1
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Germany
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A CW Posted at 2018-1-31 05:11
OcuSync is primarily designed for FPV whereby the WiFi transmission is enhanced above that of normal WiFi by taking away from the image quality in order to improve the latency, live feed and enable simultaneous transmission to multiple devices whilst maximising transmission range. That is why the Pro can be used with dual remotes, transmit 1080p FHD to the live feed and connect wirelessly to Goggles - which were originally designed for the Mavic Pro.
If you wave your hand slowly in front of the MA or Spark camera and look at the motion on your device screen you will notice a slight delay - it’s instantaneous using OcuSync. Signal breakage is very rare too due to the vast number of channels and even band width that the RC will select. That is why you can fly the Mavic Pro 13,000 feet away from you in a European country and still see exactly the same quality in the live feed as if the drone were in front of you. WiFi only transmission in drones are designed not to take from the image and impact compression but will have many draw backs in return - including signal disconnects at shorter range and being more susceptible to interference - especially WiFi and electromagnetism.

Sure thing Ocusync is undoubted way better, but as we are talking about the Air here, let's skip it
2018-1-31
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