To the OP, Yes, your are correct... the smaller it is, the harder it is to see the further out it goes.

Hellsgate Posted at 2018-1-30 18:45
I believe the point the op was trying to make and that im trying to answer..

If a drone must be kept within line of sight, is it reasonable to assume the smaller it is the nearer it should be?

Unless you use Lume Cubes. Then your drone can fly much farther, while you maintain VLOS. ;-)



RedHotPoker

RedHotPoker Posted at 2018-1-31 00:36
Unless you use Lume Cubes. Then your drone can fly much farther, while you maintain VLOS. ;-)

Yes that is true if you enhance the visual effect of the drone but the limitation still applies there is a point when the drone is just too far away even using lume cubes.
Once you reach that point then it should be obvious that the drone is too far away and should be brought back in closer.
I guess this limitation could be open to debate as many people have perfect vision whilst others like myself suffering from the dreaded old age dont see as well as we used to.The answer to this thread simply can be summed up in 2 words ............ FLY SAFE.

Hellsgate Posted at 2018-1-31 02:36
Yes that is true if you enhance the visual effect of the drone but the limitation still applies there is a point when the drone is just too far away even using lume cubes.
Once you reach that point then it should be obvious that the drone is too far away and should be brought back in closer.
I guess this limitation could be open to debate as many people have perfect vision whilst others like myself suffering from the dreaded old age dont see as well as we used to.The answer to this thread simply can be summed up in 2 words ............ FLY SAFE.

Most of my best days flying, are out in the country. Away from prying eyes and poor attitude people.


When I first bought my Lume Cubes I wasn't quite sure how useful they would be. When I  turned one on, the brightness was surprising. I see why they included a warning card, to avoid looking into one, while lit.
I soon realized how useful these would be. Sure enough, that first flight with them attached, was great.
It surprised me just how far away they could be seen in the bright day sky.  These probably saved me losing my Phantom several times.
I'm not keen to debate their usefulness, only to highly recommend them to others here.
If you don't have these, buy something similar. ;-)


RedHotPoker

Visual line-of-sight (VLOS) only; the unmanned aircraft must
remain within VLOS of the remote pilot in command and the
person manipulating the flight controls of the small UAS.
Alternatively, the unmanned aircraft must remain within
VLOS of the visual observer.
• At all times the small unmanned aircraft must remain close
enough to the remote pilot in command and the person
manipulating the flight controls of the small UAS for those
people to be capable of seeing the aircraft with vision
unaided by any device other than corrective lenses

So, in general,  I think the idea of a smaller UAS would have to be closer to see is a good assumption.  Depending on lights affixed to the aircraft.  But seeing a light..is that really VLOS.  I guess the test would be, if you had a crash/collision from a questionable distance could you articulate to the FAA that your VLOS was in fact good enough to have avoided the crash/collision.

fansb1fe1104 Posted at 2018-1-29 20:52
I can see the point of the rule of VLOS, to avoid collisions with aircraft. What aggravates me about this rule is people on the ground have absolutely no way to judge how high and how far a plane is.  You could have your drone 10 ft away up at 300 or 400 feet and you will not be able to tell if the plane will hit it unless you see it through the camera. I have to be extremely cautious when I fly at home, even though I am just about right on the 5 mile radius from the nearest grass airfield (bigger airports in the 10-20 mile radius) alot of times planes seem to be flying at less than 400 feet. I was walking my dog at the park down the street from me (a little bit outside the 5 mile radius) when a large plane, possibly a DC-9 around that size came roaring overhead which to me on the ground looked like he was no more than 100 feet above the trees. I could see all the markings very clear. I then thought to myself I am glad I was not flying my drone right then because unless he was over 400 feet with the very short amount of time that you hear the plane then actually see it, if I was flying at 400 feet and brought it down to try to avoid the plane, if it was in the planes flight path, my phantom could very well hit it while trying to descend and get out of the way.  This seems to be becoming more of a problem, too many planes and helicopters seem to ignore their 500 foot rule even over semi-populated land. Then if they collide  it is still our fault because we have to give way to airplanes at all times.

In such a case, if you was flying under 400ft and are able to prove that, you have no responsibility in the hypothetical and very less probable situation of a collision. Airplanes must respect 500ft minimum flying height unless they are on an approach path to airports and landing strips and in such case perhaps you are in a NFZ.

ALABAMA Posted at 2018-1-29 13:23
Keep a good pair of binoculars handy.

Like this one:

Portable Glasses.

FAA make regulations or drones pose a big threat!!

15matjan Posted at 2018-2-8 14:25
In such a case, if you was flying under 400ft and are able to prove that, you have no responsibility in the hypothetical and very less probable situation of a collision. Airplanes must respect 500ft minimum flying height unless they are on an approach path to airports and landing strips and in such case perhaps you are in a NFZ.

The nearest airport near where I live is 4.7 miles away according to the B4UFLY app. This airport is a small grass field with no control tower. I used to get class D warnings when I fly at home, but I have not seen that warning in a while. The nearest bigger airports near me, one is about 8 miles away and the other is about 10 miles. Mostly the small planes seem to fly over 500 feet.  Occasionally it appears to me that the smaller planes are below 500 feet, possibly 300-400 feet. Again its hard to know for sure because its impossible to tell how high they are from the ground. Helicopters seem to like to fly pretty low too. So being more than 5 miles from a bigger airport with big planes, usually Lear jets, although the other day I saw what I would guess might be a 737. The other day when I took my dog to the park near me to walk around, this park is just outside the 5 mile mark for the grass field, and about 8 and 11 miles for the larger airports, this large plane (possibly the 737) looked to me like he was flying maybe 200 feet over the top of the trees. He flew almost directly over me and I could clearly see all the markings on the jet. That's what aggravates me and worries me these planes that seem to be flying so low. Unless its an emergency I can't see any reason why jets would be flying so low so far from where they are landing. This one jet I have seen very low quite a few times so I know its not an emergency. If I had been flying my phantom at the park that day and was at 300-400 feet if I tried to see and avoid when it came through I could very well have crashed into it. If that happened I would be the one at fault because all drones must yield the right of way to manned aircraft no matter what the altitude is the drone it is the one who has to see and avoid.  I don't fly at home much anymore because of this and if I do I don't fly any higher than the trees. Ok my rant is over now, sorry that was so long.

Visual Line of sight under section 107, at least as far as the FAA is concerned means, and I quote:
With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the remote pilot in command, the visual observer (if one is used), and the person manipulating the flight control of the small unmanned aircraft system must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to:

fansb1fe1104 Posted at 2018-2-8 20:27
The nearest airport near where I live is 4.7 miles away according to the B4UFLY app. This airport is a small grass field with no control tower. I used to get class D warnings when I fly at home, but I have not seen that warning in a while. The nearest bigger airports near me, one is about 8 miles away and the other is about 10 miles. Mostly the small planes seem to fly over 500 feet.  Occasionally it appears to me that the smaller planes are below 500 feet, possibly 300-400 feet. Again its hard to know for sure because its impossible to tell how high they are from the ground. Helicopters seem to like to fly pretty low too. So being more than 5 miles from a bigger airport with big planes, usually Lear jets, although the other day I saw what I would guess might be a 737. The other day when I took my dog to the park near me to walk around, this park is just outside the 5 mile mark for the grass field, and about 8 and 11 miles for the larger airports, this large plane (possibly the 737) looked to me like he was flying maybe 200 feet over the top of the trees. He flew almost directly over me and I could clearly see all the markings on the jet. That's what aggravates me and worries me these planes that seem to be flying so low. Unless its an emergency I can't see any reason why jets would be flying so low so far from where they are landing. This one jet I have seen very low quite a few times so I know its not an emergency. If I had been flying my phantom at the park that day and was at 300-400 feet if I tried to see and avoid when it came through I could very well have crashed into it. If that happened I would be the one at fault because all drones must yield the right of way to manned aircraft no matter what the altitude is the drone it is the one who has to see and avoid.  I don't fly at home much anymore because of this and if I do I don't fly any higher than the trees. Ok my rant is over now, sorry that was so long.

Difficult case. You may be right and have the law on your side, but, given the actual trends, if anything happens they'll tend to believe more the plane's pilot.
I'd check the AIP in that area and if there are any flight restrictions (level, path, etc) in the area of those trees, I'd notice it to flight control authority.
A, too brave pilot, is dangerous to air safety, not when approaching that airfield but, presumably, other airports and airfields too