I got a call yesterday about making a pretty straight forward paid flight. That puts it under Part 107. The location is 3-4 miles from a major airport. The rules for airspace authorization are fluid and I am not sure where they stand as of this moment.

Originally, when Part 107 started we were required to contact the control tower of the airport to notify them of the flight. Pretty simple. On my Part 107 Dashboard I can request airspace authorization. The little voice in my head says that it could take weeks to get a response or acknowledgement. Or, can I just call?

So what to do? Do I call the control tower anyway? MUST I now request airspace authorization through the online form on my Part 107 Control Panel, and wait for a response? For what it is worth, here are the mission details.

Time: 4:00 pm to sunset
Maximum Altitude: 120 ft. AGL
Radius From Takeoff Point: 1/4 mile

TC

Contact tower, provide them with answers to all their questions, and you should be good to go
You'll need to contact tower soon before the flight as you can't count on a good handoff to the next shift.  However, if you have never contacted this tower before you might want to give them a heads up call now to ensure they are on board with the procedure.
I agree with you, the on-line system is convenient but considering you are dealing with a large gov't bureaucracy who knows when you'll receive a response back.  You could try it to see how long the turn around time is.  As long as you talk to the Tower you should be covered either way, assuming the on-line response does not come back in a timely manner.
Let us know how it goes?

Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-3 11:38
Contact tower, provide them with answers to all their questions, and you should be good to go
You'll need to contact tower soon before the flight as you can't count on a good handoff to the next shift.  However, if you have never contacted this tower before you might want to give them a heads up call now to ensure they are on board with the procedure.
I agree with you, the on-line system is convenient but considering you are dealing with a large gov't bureaucracy who knows when you'll receive a response back.  You could try it to see how long the turn around time is.  As long as you talk to the Tower you should be covered either way, assuming the on-line response does not come back in a timely manner.

Thanks for the reply. I just want to keep things as legal as possible. Yes, I have contacted towers before for my recreational flying. Sometimes I have wondered if they even wrote the information down. One of the creepy things about the call is they must have caller id. They automatically know your name and your telephone number.

TC

iFlyMyDrone.com Posted at 2018-2-3 11:50
Thanks for the reply. I just want to keep things as legal as possible. Yes, I have contacted towers before for my recreational flying. Sometimes I have wondered if they even wrote the information down. One of the creepy things about the call is they must have caller id. They automatically know your name and your telephone number.

TC

You need to determine what class of airspace you will be flying in. Since you will be operating under 107, you are required to be a certified 107 operator and apply for and receive an authorization to operate in the specific class of airspace.
You can file for the authorization at this link. https://www.faa.gov/uas/request_waiver/.  FYI, it takes a long time to get an airspace authorization unless the airport supports the LAANC system (LAANC is for low altitude authorizations such as UAS and is only available at certain airports through apps like Airmap or Skyward)

The ability to just call the tower is for hobbyists only. I suggest looking at the 107 requirements if you want to be fully legal.  Most if not all commercial operators (including myself) applied last year for authorizations we intend to use this year or we have peers who will let us use their approved authorizations.

Hope this helps.

+1 on post #4.  

It's documented on the FAA site as linked in the post above and has been discussed a number of times on this forum.   There is no simple "calling the airport" with a 107.

See post #21 here for confirmation:  https://forum.dji.com/thread-84920-1-1.html

Here's another thread on it:  https://forum.dji.com/thread-83134-1-1.html

It is worth looking into if you are in a LAANC test area and use Airmap or Skyward and get real-time authorization via text. The FAA will be expanding the test areas this Spring Take Care and fly safely!

iFlyMyDrone.com Posted at 2018-2-3 11:50
Thanks for the reply. I just want to keep things as legal as possible. Yes, I have contacted towers before for my recreational flying. Sometimes I have wondered if they even wrote the information down. One of the creepy things about the call is they must have caller id. They automatically know your name and your telephone number.

TC

Yes they do have ID and the calls are recorded too, unless you happen to call a clear line.  The public lines are almost always recorded as well as tower comms.  That can be a good thing for you too.

To clarify, I wasn't talking about you calling towers in general, I was talking about you calling this particular tower in advance.
I can believe you get mostly a shrug when you call.  Let's be honest, from their standpoint you'll be flying at about 100 feet and nothing that they deal with on any given day, short of an IFE, is going to fly anywhere near that altitude that close to the field.  Not unless you are flying directly below the approach path and very close to the runway, which you are not.  All this means is to them it is one of those yeah yeah yeah things, just stay out of our way and out of their hair.
You are legal if you notify them and adhere to the set rules, I see no reason why there would be a problem there.

Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-3 16:50  ...You are legal if you notify them and adhere to the set rules...

What set of rules?  You mean the set of rules about being required to request a 107 waiver for operation in controlled airspace?  How so?  Do you have a link showing that 107 pilots are actually not required to follow the set of FAA rules as illustrated on the FAA site?  

A link has been provided in post #4 showing that your post #2 was incorrect.  Do you have a link or a reference showing that your post #2 is in fact correct?  

Clearly I don't get caught up in this 107 stuff, but to help clear the air here a little bit...
Go here to read "FAA Facilities participating in LAANC Initial Prototype Evaluation Fall 2017" : https://www.faa.gov/uas/programs ... icipating_in_laanc/
Note it is a .gov site and is current as of fall 17, meaning two things 1) it is not required to use LAANC and 2) there are only about 49 airfields that are currently even participating in what is an evaluation period.
As I see it you can use the more cumbersome request process which as noted above is in effect requesting a controlled airspace authorization or airspace waiver which may or may not work for you time wise or you can gain local clearance/authorization from the tower.  Now, it is important to note that the FAA has directed controllers to direct you to what is now called the drone zone portal (https://faadronezone.faa.gov/); so this may or may not work for you either as that will boomerang you right back to having to work the cumbersome request process.  
Your call, as I don't know what your timeline is and how critical the situation will be for you.  Either way you decide to go come back and let us know what you actually learned in doing so.
Wish you all the best...

As I see it...

Sorry - I don't understand how one can read or even carefully study your post and conclude that it's okay to circumvent the FAA rules as posted on the FAA site.  

Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-2-3 16:54
What set of rules?  You mean the set of rules about being required to request a 107 waiver for operation in controlled airspace?  How so?  Do you have a link showing that 107 pilots are actually not required to follow the set of FAA rules as illustrated on the FAA site?  

A link has been provided in post #4 showing that your post #2 was incorrect.  Do you have a link or a reference showing that your post #2 is in fact correct?

Your point is you must have clearance, agreed you must.
The issue then becomes how you get said clearance.  My point was yes I suppose you could request an airspace authorization or waiver or just call the tower.  Now will that work, yes technically it will, is that how the FAA would like it to work no it is not.  Will it work, it might not, but it is worth the effort in doing so if time is not on your side.
I'm not one to tie myself up in knots over technicalities, if this is time sensitive then waiting for the perfect solution will not work.
As to rule set, I meant if you get clearance then ensure you follow all the other rule sets that apply.
I'd think this should clarify my position, if not I'll be happy to explain further.

Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-2-3 17:24
Sorry - I don't understand how one can read or even carefully study your post and conclude that it's okay to circumvent the FAA rules as posted on the FAA site.

Yes I can see why you would say this...as I noted in my reply to you previous it is not about circumvention it is about obtaining clearance locally vice a bureaucratic process, not optimum for sure, but it will get the job done.  I'm sure you wont agree.

TC
If you wouldn't mind, can you ID which airfield you are looking at for this?  I'd like to satisfy some curiosity with it.  If you can't or won't I understand, no prob.
Cheers

Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-3 17:27
Your point is you must have clearance...
The issue then becomes how you get said clearance.  My point was yes I suppose you could request an airspace authorization or waiver or just call the tower.  Now will that work, yes technically it will, is that how the FAA would like it to work no it is not.  Will it work, it might not, but it is worth the effort in doing so if time is not on your side.
I'm not one to tie myself up in knots over technicalities, if this is time sensitive then waiting for the perfect solution will not work.

No, sir.  My point is, you must follow the law.  That's the same law you agreed to follow when you acquired your Part 107 certification.  

Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-2-3 18:09
No, sir.  My point is, you must follow the law.  That's the same law you agreed to follow when you acquired your Part 107 certification.

Well I am not going to debate you about following the law, as I'm sure we actually both agree that that is unarguable...
The issue is how to go about it, I have one approach, you don't agree, and you have yours...fair enough, I have no issue with your approach or your position.  I just don't think it is so darned black and white and there are more than one way to get there, clearly you do not and thus here we sit.
At this point we can only agree to disagree about that difference.

Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-3 17:30
...it is about obtaining clearance locally ...

No it's not.

The FAA will issue waivers/authorizations to certain requirements of Part 107 if an applicant demonstrates they can fly safely under the waiver without endangering people or property on the ground or in the air.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/request_waiver/

This has nothing to do with "obtaining clearance locally."  

There is no footnote or asterisk or any other side notation on the page which would allow a tangent from this FAA rule.  

Never mind.

iFlyMyDrone.com Posted at 2018-2-4 05:34
Never mind.

In a attempt to help: in order to fly completely legal under 107 you will need an authorization for the class of airspace you wish to fly in. You can apply for that authorization at faadronezone.gov --> Authorizations take at a minimum 90 days  so that will likely not support your operation at this time. When you fly under an airspace authorization (vice an airspace waiver) you are STILL REQUIRED to call the tower to inform them you are flying and all the information associated with your approved authorization (altitude, length of flight, area of flight)

When a HOBBYIST calls the tower (under part 336 non commercial) they are not asking for clearance, they are informing the tower they are flying and what altitude and gathering information on typical flight patterns.

I apologize for your question getting caught up in an argument. The fact is if you are flying for anything other than recreation your only totally legal option is the airspace authorization (or waiver, but that takes even longer).

Hope this helps

I do not want to get into the middle of this, however if you are flying 107 to make a living , you people as a community need to come together and get the FAA to see that some business opportunities come at a moments notice and there is a real need to receive authorization in a timely manner, I know its being worked on with the LAANC test until this is implemented there needs to be a better way, You need to contact the FAA and express your concerns as part of the business community. Take Care and Fly Safe!

RMJovo Posted at 2018-2-4 07:32
I do not want to get into the middle of this, however if you are flying 107 to make a living , you people as a community need to come together and get the FAA to see that some business opportunities come at a moments notice and there is a real need to receive authorization in a timely manner, I know its being worked on with the LAANC test until this is implemented there needs to be a better way, You need to contact the FAA and express your concerns as part of the business community. Take Care and Fly Safe!

Believe me we do. The issue is that small business (general photography, insurance adjustment, etc) do not get attention like big businesses (major agriculture, mapping, construction companies). I have been waiting for an authorization for 8 months. I do occasional real estate, a lot of insurance assessment and general cinematography/photography.

The fact is that the FAA is moving as fast as they can, but when everyone can buy a drone a best buy, pay $150 and get a 107 and believe they are going to be millionaire, there are going to be more folks breaking the rules than following  them. Simply because they KNOW they will not have to face consequences.

The degradation of the discussion above occurred because the OP wants to do things legally, which, as a professional myself, I applaud. But individuals who disagree with the process give wrong information either ignorantly or purposefully.

Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-2-4 03:30
No it's not.

The FAA will issue waivers/authorizations to certain requirements of Part 107 if an applicant demonstrates they can fly safely under the waiver without endangering people or property on the ground or in the air.

OK now that the crap storm has gone in to full blow and you insist on pressing the matter, I'll split hairs with you...
Part 107 says: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/ret ... RT&n=pt14.2.107
§107.41   Operation in certain airspace.
No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from Air Traffic Control (ATC).
These are the FAA rules, not mine.  Now it would seem no one is in dispute about the fact that clearance is required, I don't think so anyway.  That said, the issue is how.  No where in part 107 does it say how, but in other places on the faa.gov site (as noted by myself and others here) it does lay out how you should, which seems to be the dispute as to whether one approach is required over another.  Now last I checked ATC is an entity like a tower, RAPCON, ctr, etc. not a portal.  Therefore if you gain permission, clearance, approval from a duly authorized FAA ATC facility you would have what is needed, in my opinion, and this is where the hair gets split.  

Now I too will apologize to the OP, he asked for thoughts and opinions on the subject.  I provided mine and clearly you and others do not agree, which is fine.  The OP is the PiC and he must make the decision as to how to proceed in good faith to the requirements.
TC I wish you the best of luck, if you still wish too, let us know what happens.
Take Care and Fly Safe

Wow I’m glad I can use AirMap call the ATC and Flight Control Center and I’m good to go. They request my name address and phone number registration # location of operation time and length of operation max altitude.  I also log the time of the calls phone numbers I called and people I spoke to.  NOTE THIS IS JUST A COMMENT AND NOT MEANT TO BE LEGAL ADVICE IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. Take Care and Fly Safe.

Genghis9 Posted at 2018-2-4 09:57
OK now that the crap storm has gone in to full blow and you insist on pressing the matter, I'll split hairs with you...
Part 107 says: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/ret ... RT&n=pt14.2.107
§107.41   Operation in certain airspace.

There is some confusion on this thread between airspace authorizations versus airspace waivers.

An airspace authorization is required for 107 flights in controlled airspace (FAA REQUIREMENT). Operation under an authorization STILL requires the operator to contact the local ATC for which the authorization was granted to provide flight information before each flight and receive information. This is in addition to asking the FAA for the authorization through the faadronezone.gov portal

An airspace waiver (which is harder to get) DOES NOT require ATC contact prior to each flight and is usually requested for extended periods operating in the controlled airspace. (example: taking construction photos daily on a structure being built for progress documentation)

This information is not only written on various FAA sites, it is also used in practice by those of us using drones commercially. We do not just read the words on the sites and documents, we talk to local FSDOs and FAA representatives to ensure we share the same interpretation as the regulating authority. Which is currently, to fly in controlled airspace you need to have an approved authorization (granted through the faa drone zone portal) and an informed tower or an approved airspace waiver (also granted through the faa drone zone portal).

Essentially speaking, clearance is not the same as a waiver or authorization.

QiiFlight Posted at 2018-2-4 11:47
There is some confusion on this thread between airspace authorizations versus airspace waivers.

An airspace authorization is required for 107 flights in controlled airspace (FAA REQUIREMENT). Operation under an authorization STILL requires the operator to contact the local ATC for which the authorization was granted to provide flight information before each flight and receive information. This is in addition to asking the FAA for the authorization through the faadronezone.gov portal

I will agree clearance would not be the same as a waiver for sure, I think we could lawyer the whole authorization aspect down to a fine point, but I will even cede that for the sake of the discussion and your point.
I would proffer that if you are going to the extent of talking to FSDOs then to me that is certainly covering your bases down to the Nth degree, if not a bit in the weeds in my opinion, however, in today's evolving environment maybe that is what is really needed.
In the case of flying no higher than about 140 ft (most tall pines are 100 ft tall) in a very small area for a very short time, it seems to me that jumping through all those hoops for that is burdensome and unnecessary (I realize that is the point where we differ).  The idea and intent is to ensure deconfliciton, in this case short of another drone in the area or an IFE nothing will be flying at 100 feet near an airfield (oh except maybe a crop duster) and as long as you get ATC clearance and approval you should be good to go (the whole portal process aside).  I believe even the faa realizes this process is not really workable and reasonable which is why they updated the portal and they are attempting to establish the LAANC system in order to expedite the process so it is both reasonable to the user and to the system for traffic management purposes.  I do not believe our government agency has caught up to the current situation, they rarely are, and until a better process is established I don't think anyone is in danger of jail if they have made a real effort towards ensuring safety, approval, and deconfliction.  I will also agree, if possible, you should attempt to use the process that is defined whenever possible, however, in those cases where reality conflicts with bureaucracy I recommend doing what I recommended; and as I noted it may not be accepted or workable as the faa has told controllers to direct operators to the portal, making all this moot at that point.

QiiFlight Posted at 2018-2-4 11:47
...to fly in controlled airspace you need to have an approved authorization (granted through the faa drone zone portal) AND an informed tower or an approved airspace waiver (also granted through the faa drone zone portal).

QiiFlight - thank-you for your logic and clarity of words.  Your post should be a sticky.

So to summarize the thread and bring it to its final conclusion:

...to fly in controlled airspace under Part 107, a pilot needs to have

1) an approved authorization (granted through the faa drone zone portal - this is the mechanism under which a pilot may seek ATC approval*  - he may not contact the airport facility directly)

or


2) an approved airspace waiver (also granted through the faa drone zone portal).


https://www.faa.gov/uas/request_waiver/

*If a pilot is interested in participating in the LAANC initial prototype evaluation, see Notes 1 & 2 in the link above

Thanks again

Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-2-5 03:12
QiiFlight - thank-you for your logic and clarity of words.  Your post should be a sticky.

So to summarize the thread and bring it to its final conclusion:

Nope, I don't think this thread has come to it's final conclusion...

I think the bigger question is how is DJI going to handle removing the geo fence once I get instant LAANC authorization to a sector / sectors to do the work I am contracted to do?

Waivers are for operating outside the rules .... under agreed upon conditions between the operator and the FAA.
ATC Authorization is for operating outside of Class G Airspace.

I am a commercial helicopter pilot ... and I need ATC authorization (by radio) to fly into Class B, C, D airspace ... or to work within that airspace.  There is no way I can make it up to A !!

I'm going to post my answer to this, as I've been doing a lot of Part 107 flights in an area completely covered in LAANC enabled Class B airspace.

For the most part, I use the Airmap app to obtain authorization within the LAANC enabled airspace.  However, Airmap isn't 100% reliable, so I sometimes use Skyward.  There are major benefits to using these apps.  Airmap shows the current position of most traffic, and it gives audible alerts if something is flying near me.  The only things that I can't see are hospital and police helicopters, and the aircraft from the nearby AFB.  Obtaining authorization is very simple within the LAANC parameters, and I'm able to obtain it within a few minutes in most areas.  The AFB airspace is more difficult.  When I request LAANC authorization from Airmap, I immediately receive an SMS message from the FAA stating I have authorization with all the details.  If I listen to ATC on my radio, I will often hear mention of my position to other air traffic.  Skyward is similar, but I don't get the text from Skyward usually.  Instead, I get a notification within the app, and I can print out the details on a printer.

Now, if I want to get authorization to fly outside LAANC parameters, i.e. fly 400' instead of the automated 100', I have to plan the flight three days ahead of time.  In my experience, requesting a flight less than 72 hours in advance results in an SMS from the FAA saying the flight was immediately rejected.  More than 72 hours, and I get one SMS saying they are reviewing it and will notify me before 24 hours before the flight, and about 30 minutes later, I receive another SMS saying it's approved.  I have had a few rejected, some because they weren't able to process it in the 48 hour period and rejected the flight 24 hours before flight time, and some because of other concerns that I was not aware of at the time I submitted the request.    Most of the time, it's not a problem.

Sometimes, though, I get problems with Airmap having what they call "overlapping airspace," and it won't let me request authorization for certain areas even though Airmap says they're clear up to 400'.  Skyward rarely has those issues, but I find Skyward not as quick, not as friendly, and it doesn't give me traffic alerts.

Calling ATC is out of the question here.  The Class B airspace contains 5 airports, one of which is a large AFB, and another of which is a major international airport.  Calling either of those two just upsets them, because they don't have time to answer the phone.  We also have so many hospital heliports, it's ridiculous.  Using the apps is the best way to get ALL towers on the same page, and it works.  Hearing my drone operation announced over ATC radio without ever calling them, though, was proof positive to me that the apps work.

I've also tried using the Drone Zone site.  It works for the most part, but it's best for waivers, not airspace authorizations.  That site takes up to 3 months for them to say no, so the flights have to be posted WAY in advance.  I did a bunch of blanket area authorization requests, and got permission for the entire Class B airspace, which was nice, but that was before LAANC was operational in my area.  Once it was operational, things moved a lot more swiftly.

Wow - great post!  Lots of interesting and useful info.  Thanks!