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HELP: DJI Phantom 3 Mystery Crash
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37417 114 2015-5-2
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boutropeur.msn
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Please do post the logs!
2015-5-3
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sheinisch
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droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-5-3 11:15
FYI for when you get this fixed or get a new bird.

LiPo batteries need conditioning for the first ...

Hi,

just a short question: What do you mean with "charging the LiPo up to 1 c maximum"? Is "1 c" an indicator or specific time?

Thanks,
*Sven*
2015-5-3
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coreynach
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sheinisch@headl Posted at 2015-5-3 18:39
Hi,

just a short question: What do you mean with "charging the LiPo up to 1 c maximum"? Is "1 c"  ...

"C" rating is the discharge rating of a battery. It helps you figure out the maximum amperage draw of a battery. The higher the C rating, the more energy can discharge at once. Here's how you calculate it:

*Move the decimal place of the C rating to the left three digits. So a Lipo with a 20C rating would be 0.020
*Multiply that by the Mah rating of the battery.
*For instance, a 2200mah battery times .020 would have a maximum amp draw of 44
*However, a 2200mah battery with a 45C rating (.045) has a maximum amp draw of 99, so it can provide more power quickly.

What does this have to do with charging? Some might think that if a battery can discharge 44amp, it may also charge at 44amp, but has other have stated, this will shorten the life of the battery. If you use that same equation,  a 2200mah battery at 1C (0.001) would equal 2.2 amps. Charging at 1C means only charging your battery using that amp measure... (so a 4400 battery would be at 4.4amps. etc..). While the battery C rating may be high enough that you could "feed" it more amps at once, which lessens the charge time, it does shorten the batteries life.
2015-5-3
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Barrie McArthur
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coreynach@gmail Posted at 2015-5-3 19:09
"C" rating is the discharge rating of a battery. It helps you figure out the maximum amperage draw ...

Isn't this irrelevant with the P3? You can't (as far as I know) adjust the chargers settings, and the intelligent battery has its own electronics to control the input charge rate. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
2015-5-3
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Cacc
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I don't know if this could be an issue, but when you recovered the craft how hot did the battery feel? The battery for the Phantom 3 gets much hotter than the Phantom 2 because of the higher voltage; so hot that you have to wait for it to cool down after a flight to be able to charge it. If you live in a hot climate I would imagine the battery gets even hotter. Maybe someone from DJI can answer this better than anyone else, but is it possible that the intelligence of the battery is programmed incorrectly or a sensor within your battery was faulty? It won't let it charge if it is too hot (which makes perfect sense to prevent damage), but will it also try to protect the battery by shutting it down if it gets too hot in flight?
2015-5-3
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droneflyers.com
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Barrie McArthur Posted at 2015-5-3 19:15
Isn't this irrelevant with the P3? You can't (as far as I know) adjust the chargers settings, and  ...

You are correct - with a smart battery and smart stock charger, this work is done for you.
2015-5-3
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droneflyers.com
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We may never know - because who knows what DJIs policy is about sharing the results of post-crash data?
If they find a potential problem, they will probably tweak settings in an update.

I checked by P3 battery fit - it fits much looser than those in my P2. I'm not saying that's a problem - but the P3 battery slides in and out easily whereas all my P2 Batteries take a good hard shove to go in and a really hard pull (my wife doesn't even have the strength to do it) to remove.

I just put some of that gold contact cleaner on it (deox) to make certain and I am going to break in the batteries and land at 50% for the first number of flights...just in case this problem was related to a combo of unconditioned batteries, heat and/or a less than perfect connection to the quad.  
2015-5-3
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johnl1906
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Wow sorry bro!  Definitelycurious to see if the root cause is determined.
2015-5-3
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suqsid.bobmail
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droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-5-3 22:58
We may never know - because who knows what DJIs policy is about sharing the results of post-crash da ...

I think it is complete BS that the quad records flight data that is only readable by DJI. I don't buy Apple because of this kind of crap.

If this is wrong and someone knows how to get usable info out of these data logs, please let us know.
2015-5-3
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Blade_Strike
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Guys if the craft had a complete power failure it will be covered. Some of you always want to start the conspiracy theories from the get go.. There is a log for end users to review. Its in the user center. This even shows stick movements.

The internal flight log will give dji even more data..

2015-5-3
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Michael Starley
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Good insight dronefyler.Thanx.Did not know about battery conditioning. Very good to know.Tahoe -ed..If DJI has not already considered this..I would like to request that this info(Battery Break In and Coditioning) be added to all individiually sold units.I know that the paperwork that I received when I purchased the p2 did not have it.Not griping...but things like that sure would make your job more enjoyable...if management will allow you to approach them with it.I have always discharged to below 8% after 20 cycles.What I just learned here can add longevity to my investment.Jacob Zacks...hate to hear about the bird.I too have lost one...due to aftermarket parts though.Be patient with customer service.  
2015-5-3
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flyingduck88
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This incident just turned my stomach when I read it.  I can relate to how the OP feels completely! No, I don’t own a P3 simply because I couldn’t find an Advanced version in stock but if I would of I’d have one right now.
My P2V+V3 experienced the EXACT same failure Just 2 weeks ago and on its 33rd flight. I know they are completely different internally but I have to wonder if this kind of problem is going to happen more as they see more flight time with the P3.
I know the first thought is to suggest that the battery somehow vibrated loose because of user error and seating it all the way BUT I can say in my case there was no way. I doubt the OP made that mistake too.
Not much is more disheartening then hearing the motors just stop and seeing the quad plummet to the ground and not being able to do ANYTHING to stop it!
I had a Flytrex live 3G on mine and the flight log showed that everything was 100% and then it just stopped. I can only hope the DJI will be able to find the cause of this for both the OP and myself!! When I was on the phone with DJI I was told I didn’t need to send the battery in BUT I insisted that I was going to. What if it is a problem with the battery? The fellow on the phone seemed like they had no interest or suspect that it was the battery….Almost like he kind of knew something already?? I shipped it to them anyway! LOL!!
2015-5-3
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coreynach
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Barrie McArthur Posted at 2015-5-3 19:15
Isn't this irrelevant with the P3? You can't (as far as I know) adjust the chargers settings, and  ...

Yes.. it is irrelevant for the P3. You just plug its battery in to the proprietary charger and it work. I was just answering the question before, and think it's good to educate about RC whenever you can.
2015-5-3
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Total
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droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-5-3 11:15
FYI for when you get this fixed or get a new bird.

LiPo batteries need conditioning for the first ...

Can you post a link to this conditioning ? Does DJI have a official statement on this ?  I have not read about this in the user manuals ?
2015-5-3
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Barrie McArthur
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coreynach@gmail Posted at 2015-5-4 00:28
Yes.. it is irrelevant for the P3. You just plug its battery in to the proprietary charger and it  ...

Yeah, sorry if I came across as rude, not my intention, it's just  that noobs may think something hasn't been explained in the manual....or is that Manuel?!!! Safe flying!!
2015-5-3
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Jacob Zacks
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How would I post them? I'm willing to if someone tells me how to do it.
2015-5-3
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knarfboy
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Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-5-3 10:54
DJI has the reader.  They can look at it.

Why DJI give us not the reader?
2015-5-3
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Tahoe_Ed
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knarfboy Posted at 2015-5-4 06:35
Why DJI give us not the reader?

It is developmental software and not user friendly.  They are working on a user version but I am not sure when or if it will ever be released.  The iOSD has a viewer for the logs.  Eventually.
2015-5-3
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cheong
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@Jacob Zacks upload the log into dropbox and share the link, thanks
2015-5-3
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mswall
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Cacc Posted at 2015-5-3 13:59
Since you are not flying until the app is out, you can pretty much condition the batteries now. (M ...

Remember to always remove the camera support before powering up the quad - otherwise the gimbal fights the support which can't be good for it.
2015-5-4
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boutropeur.msn
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mswall@mac.com Posted at 2015-5-5 01:50
Remember to always remove the camera support before powering up the quad - otherwise the gimbal fi ...

@Jacob

Just wrote a log reader/converter, you can use it at http://www.flylitchi.com/logs
You will be able to convert the log to CSV human readable format (you can open it with excel for example).
2015-5-4
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Jacob Zacks
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boutropeur.msn Posted at 2015-5-5 15:27
@Jacob

Just wrote a log reader/converter, you can use it at http://www.flylitchi.com/logs

Tried to upload my logs to this, says invalid file.

Just an update on the situation. I bought this from Allerc, and they have been very helpful. They did an RMA for me yesterday and will be sending it into DJI once they receive it to figure out what happened. Hopefully I'll have my money back before June.
2015-5-5
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boutropeur.msn
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Whoops I just realized that we are not talking about the same log files.
The log files you can convert on flylitchi.com are the DJI Pilot logs, they are located in your mobile device's internal SDCard, inside the "DJI/dji.pilot/FlightRecord" folder.
2015-5-5
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myles
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I had the same problem I was only 30' out and 30' up and it just powered down and crashed.. totally broke the camera.. I contact DJI support they seemed helpful... I sent it back today.. they paid for the shipping.. so it seems that a couple people are actually reporting the same issue I had so maybe that enough that they fix the problem and send me a replacement.
Close up of damage on camera
2015-5-5
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myles
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Jacob Zacks Posted at 2015-5-3 09:29
This is what it looks like

That's exactly how mine looks
2015-5-5
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myles
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Jacob Zacks Posted at 2015-5-3 10:07
I have a very limited supply on the battery since the plastic around the connector is split, I can  ...

They are going to have you send the entire box back so they can inspect it.
As I previously stated I had the same problem and had to wait until Monday AM PST 9AM but they were extremely helpful.
2015-5-5
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norbert.gundlac
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Today my P3 also crashed after 15 min flying in an open field, I returned a few time to home-point (just practicing) but my last flight I started with 50% of battery and it crashed (just fall out of the sky) while I return it back (manually) to home-point. Battery show one led on and second led blinking (30%-40% battery). My screen of the pilot app showed 33% battery (just after the crash). Camera and gimball are broken.
I was not able to get at the logs with the USB cable connect to my PC.
DJI support response quicky and ask me to return the P3 for investigation (they can read the blackbox), The best way to return the P3 is via the dealer.
Hopefully DJI they can fix this issue soon.
2015-5-7
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gsp171
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norbert.gundlac Posted at 2015-5-8 01:56
Today my P3 also crashed after 15 min flying in an open field, I returned a few time to home-point ( ...

Start a new thread and post a pic of your phantom
2015-5-7
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norbert.gundlac
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2015-5-7
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gsp171
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sorry for your loss
2015-5-7
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imwhitey
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norbert.gundlac Posted at 2015-5-8 01:56
Today my P3 also crashed after 15 min flying in an open field, I returned a few time to home-point ( ...

Hmm, yes make a new thread and post pics of the damage please. Thank you.
2015-5-7
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mswall
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Please DJI - once you receive the damaged P3s, figure out what is causing this and put the following in a firmware update:   CRASH = NEVER;
2015-5-7
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Daninho
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Blade_Strike Posted at 2015-5-3 23:26
Guys if the craft had a complete power failure it will be covered. Some of you always want to start  ...

this is interesing with the user Center. Is this working already or in progress? So you just go in the app and click on user center and select the correct flight and you see the date and stick movements of your selected flight? I remember a guy crashed his P3 and ppl claimed he did a CSC, this would be the ideal tool to see if that was the case.

With the Phantom2 ppl had similar problems, many from the early batch dropped cause of the smart battery. I hope this get solved when i receive my P3 end of may.
2015-5-7
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neilkarunatilak
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Additionally, at least with the Android version of the app, I was able to pull the cached flight logs off my android tablet, which I could then read in Notepad on Windows.
Not sure if these are the same flight logs or not, or how that would work if the app crashed midway.
2015-5-7
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Jacob Zacks
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The logs were sent to DJI, and it appears that they classified this as "user error" because "There is a small fall at the end of the flight; however, it is due to the user performing the 'stop motor move' on the controller, while in mid air."

This is ridiculous, a flaw in the controls allowed the motors to cut and for $1300 to be lost.
2015-5-21
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ruprick
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Jacob Zacks Posted at 2015-5-22 04:05
The logs were sent to DJI, and it appears that they classified this as "user error" because "There i ...

Well that sucks!
2015-5-21
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cascadeflyer
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Sorry for your loss! Hopefully you will get it back in the air somehow! The 'stop motor move" is not a flaw though. It is a safety cut off that these quads all have. The both sticks down and in/out position is not one you would or should use in normal flight. Full down/full yaw/full reverse, and full left/right is just not a normal thing to do. This has been debated to death many times but the CSC motor stop move is not going anywhere.
2015-5-21
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Oliver
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Jacob Zacks Posted at 2015-5-22 04:05
The logs were sent to DJI, and it appears that they classified this as "user error" because "There i ...

That's really unfortunate. However, at least we know what caused it. Was it easy to perform the stop motor move by accident?

Could I please have access to the logs? I'd be interested to see what they look like and see if I can extract any useful info from them
2015-5-21
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hundleton1
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so was is CSC or holding the throttle in full down ?
2015-5-21
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john-kirwan89
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Total Posted at 2015-5-4 03:19
Can you post a link to this conditioning ? Does DJI have a official statement on this ?  I have no ...

This battery conditioning you here of is a load of BS! NiCad batterys maybe benefit from it but lithium batterys dont.
2015-5-21
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