suqsid.bobmail Posted at 2015-5-13 15:26
Some thoughts:

1) Check your DJI folder on your phone for a crash...txt file. It does try to save ...

Hi, I did a check, and didn't find any app crash log during that flight. It's probably just a signal lose rather than an app crash.

Well, when I thought about it, they actually let me pay 100% for that drop, since they didn't give me the option to just by the P3 itself and ask me to send the remote back, I believe that remote costs maybe more than 30% of that whole package.

suqsid.bobmail Posted at 2015-5-13 12:27
So why didn't it fly home?

Did he set...and check home?  DJI has stated that home could be an issue to establish if interference is heavy

silverqsy@gmail Posted at 2015-5-13 13:26
First, the place I flied is 4 miles away from Logan Airport, it's almost at the edge of the flight  ...

I get it....not saying that you did anything wrong but the P3 is not fool proof so going over water has it's risks.

"and ask me to send the remote back"
Exactly, why would you have to send that one back, you bought it.

The deal should be, your new replacement Phantom is being shipped today.

suqsid.bobmail Posted at 2015-5-13 15:26
Some thoughts:

1) Check your DJI folder on your phone for a crash...txt file. It does try to save ...

Good point...but what if the remote was the problem LOS

Bottom line with my opinion is...I think something is wrong with power issues of the battery...add in some glitches that mask issues. If this was a FAA issue in flight hardware...they be grounded.  Trust Me I know been working in real copters for years as an auditor for a very large engine control company.

With some competition offering flyaway replacements, i do wonder what DJI thinks overall on the subject of liability. While i can totally see their side of things in that this is a new tech with tons of opportunities for user error and force majeure, a company does have to stand behind its product if used as instructed.

The black box features are certainly a great step for identifying whether the user or hardware was at fault, but thus far in this thread it's a mystery as to how they are coming to that determination.

What i doubt will ever happen but would be a big nod to their customers if they did: is release a document detailing what cases merit full replacement of the hardware. all the usual stuff like home point set, compass cali, etc... but even further: photos of the unit before each flight to see that hardware is OK.. showing that the battery is in tight,  etc... As many details as possible to show that the user operated within the guidelines of the manual.

Here's another question: is it possible for them to come up with readings from the antennas about active signals in the area/where the copter is flying? Signal strength between craft and transmitter is one thing, but it would be super helpful if it could warn you that it detects a strong signal in the area.

/thoughts

ams4900@yahoo.c Posted at 2015-5-13 20:45
Did he set...and check home?  DJI has stated that home could be an issue to establish if interfere ...

I don't see why home would be an issue to be established since at this point it has nothing to do with the remote and it's all GPS dependent, and it's been self navigating, there should nothing to interfere with that,

xguy4ku Posted at 2015-5-13 21:55
I don't see why home would be an issue to be established since at this point it has nothing to do  ...

RTH option if an event happened could have sent the unit to somewhere else. Not saying it was the problem but "just trying to peel back the onion" to see what could have happened

I was just about to start a thread about my compass going into error and my p3 started to drift away and I had no control. I tried to keep it from drifting but couldn't and right when u was going to execute the stick movement to stop the motors compass error stopped flashing and it went back to green saying safe to fly and the everything went normal.   I've been flying my f450 and f550 in this same area for over a yr without any issues.  They work flawlessly every time, so I know nothing is wrong with the area I'm flying in.  The manual states of that happens give it throttle and go higher. But that is scary when it's floating away.   

Dji should do what 3dr is doing right now.  Put the logging capabilities into the controller so they can see if it was a true fly away and if it was replace it for free.  3dr is giving that warranty so I'm sure the p3 could do it with a firmware update and a updated controller.. and then also put hdmi on the controller also. . Lol

jacmac64 Posted at 2015-5-13 18:21
Nice to know the 1 year warranty means nothing. I really thought this would a case where they would  ...

Agree, many of my friends around me were amazed by the photography and video I created using the P2, but they said they gonna think about it since the P2 does require some DIY (gimbal setup, FPV System and etc.) to become fully functional. When the P3 is out, I simply told them just go for it, I praised a lot about its overrall performance improvement, the easy-to-useness, the out-of-box flight experience, they got pretty excited and one even thought about getting an Inspire one. When I got the P3 in my hand, I even post some long exposure test shots on Weibo (Chinese Twitter), which got fowared by DJI official account and reach more than 40k views, lots of people commented saying they cannot wait to get a p3. I almost feel myself becoming a salesperson for DJI.
Honestly, I'm more than happy to see a company from my home country becoming an industry leader because of their creativity and innovation, rather than the sterotype of being copycat or using cheap labor. I have to confess that i was a big fan of DJI, that's why i didn't post my story anywhere other than this forum, things can easily get out of control in social media.

But now what? I have to say their response kind of hurts me. DJI, if you really want to become the Apple in the UAV industry, rather than making your website, your industrial design and ads Apple-like, your custom service should and have to keep up.

What's even worse is this case hurts my passion about aerial photography. I'm a professional photographer and filmmaker and I can see the its bright futrue, I'd like to share some of my work so you guys will understand that im not just talking big words. However now I'm much less confident when I have to fly these things. The idea that they can drop from sky in any second just haunts me, I may not capable to achieve such shots again for right now, which makes me feel sad.

an aerial video I did in 17 Miles Drive, Carlifornia


a aerial little planet in boston


I am also experimenting interactive panorama using 360 cities, it feels like Google Streetview, but from above. here is an example: http://www.360cities.net/image/gainsborough-st#330.67,12.87,70.0

I really hope someone  in the higher level from DJI could read this, and offer me a better solution.

And dji keeps saying the p3 signal can be interfered with per fcc law,  isn't the thing suppose to fly home and land if there is a control issue?  My f450 and f550 do it just fine, so why won't the flag ship bird of dji do it.  With the price of these things getting more and more expensive they need to put critical flight log info into a log file or files that get stored on the controller.  That way everyone can prove if the user made a mistake or if the hardware is to blame.   

Although my new p3 flies like a dream.  I love it allot and I'm praying i don't lose it because of hardware error.  So far dji products have done ok by me.  Easy to fly and everything.   I am concerned about my p3 showing compass issues and drifting away on me until it some how corrected itself and resumed normal flight

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-5-5 03:55
There is an icon of the cloud with an up arrow in the upper right corner of the App under user.  P ...

Hi Tahoe_Ed, could you forward my updated post as well as my message at 89# to one of your supervisors in DJI? Thanks!

DJI-Autumn Posted at 2015-5-4 10:00
Pls sync your filght record to the cloud, I'll have a check. Trully sorry for your loss.
And pls cal ...

Hi Autumn, could you forward my updated post as well as my message at 89# to one of your supervisors in DJI? Thanks!

averbouwens Posted at 2015-5-5 01:49
Yes, this is my post.  Lost my Bird 1.  Have not heard back from DJI Inspire Support?  Tahoe_Ed, c ...

Hi man, how is your case going?

ams4900@yahoo.c Posted at 2015-5-13 12:20
Your data set indicates to me that the power is spiked from a slowing of the power...not much but t ...

I highly doubt that this has something to do with a sudden power loss

suqsid.bobmail Posted at 2015-5-13 15:26
Some thoughts:

1) Check your DJI folder on your phone for a crash...txt file. It does try to save ...

This would be useful when there is an App crash but as far as i know there was a Phantom3 sudden power loss, the app worked and showed of course a black screen after the power loss.

Daninho Posted at 2015-5-13 23:20
I highly doubt that this has something to do with a sudden power loss

Agree... so why did it spike? the last printouts (4?) shows something happening? I'm only saying to get a spikelike that shows system is not pushing amperage so what could it be?  

ams4900@yahoo.c Posted at 2015-5-13 23:35
Agree... so why did it spike? the last printouts (4?) shows something happening? I'm only saying t ...

are you refering to the data he posted? I think its normal that the voltage goes above a bit when hovering after two minutes of high speed flying.

Daninho Posted at 2015-5-13 23:44
are you refering to the data he posted? I think its normal that the voltage goes above a bit when  ...

Agree again....did that happen?  "gather the data" that's how we find the problem to get him 100% ;o)

That response is unacceptable. Have you spoken to DJI?

Michael M Posted at 2015-5-14 01:01
That response is unacceptable. Have you spoken to DJI?

Just got another email back from them
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Siyang

We are DJI Technology, a Customer Service and Repair center for North America. Our focus is technical support through phone and email, as well as product repair.

Unfortunately, in these situations where we cannot accept the Phantom into our repair center, we cannot determine the cause of the Phantom's behavior.
Because of this, we have customers fill out the survey so we can find any clues that lead us to one of these main causes: user error, equipment malfunction, or signal interference.

The fact that you chose to fly your unit over open bodies of water, something we advise against in our safety guidelines places a certain level of responsibility on you.
http://download.dji-innovations. ... s_Disclaimer_en.pdf

I choose to help, and offered you the best solution we have to helps customers in your position. We cannot offer any further discount as this is a company-wide policy.

If you accept, please use the information in the previous email to send your transmitter in.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

DJI Customer Service Lead North America
DJI Customer Service North America
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

well what can i say?

"The fact that you chose to fly your unit over open bodies of water, something we advise against in our safety guidelines..."

In THEIR promotional videos on THEIR website, the quad is even launched from a boat !!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZZELmbz7mBc

Ulysse Posted at 2015-5-14 04:14
"The fact that you chose to fly your unit over open bodies of water, something we advise against in  ...

You should of been more responsible and flew it over lava from an active volcano.

My P3 is the first drone I have ever own and I must said mine flies really good and havent gave me any problems but on the last fly ( a couple of days ago) it almost fall in the middle of a lake,  i have the video and I will upload it to youtube so you guys can see it, since that day I havent fly it again because I am afraid of loosing my 1000 dollar drone lol

I will post the video later tomorrow and also if some could explain me how to get the log of the drone so I can see if there is anything that shows the error.

Thanks

Come on DJI. Cut the hedging, do the right thing, and replace this fellow enthusiast's quad, who did nothing wrong.  Believe me,  *ALL* eyes here are watching to see how you handle this!!!

lightpanther Posted at 2015-5-14 11:14
Come on DJI. Cut the hedging, do the right thing, and replace this fellow enthusiast's quad, who did ...

"The fact that you chose to fly your unit over open bodies of water, something we advise against in our safety guidelines places a certain level of responsibility on you.
http://download.dji-innovations. ... s_Disclaimer_en.pdf"

Umm, to be honest, how is that a "safety" guideline and not a "reliability" issue? Why should a P3 200 feet above water be any less safe than a P3 200 feet above concrete? Imagine if an airline manufacturer said "don't fly this device above open bodies of water." Why not? Can it not be trusted? The product should be reliable in the air. End of story. External water bodies have no Rasputin-like influence over the stability of firmware.

No matter how many times I repeat this lots of people are still going to do it.

"If you fly your quadcopter regularly over bodies of water you will likely lose it to Neptune".

I've been saying this for a year and a lot of people dispute the statement- but meantime there are almost daily stories of loss in water!
DJI finally made it official and put it in the manual.

I don't want to appear heartless - and of course I wish the OP got his quad back or a free one from DJI - yet at the same time flying at that height and distance over the Charles River in the middle of one of the largest and most crowded urban areas in the US....is not responsible flying. Besides all the questions of legality (this is in a Category A safety Zone - less then 5 miles from Logan), there is the common sense end of things. The amount of EMI and wireless signals in that area (MIT, vast amounts of research labs, etc.) has to be off the charts.
The OP admittedly did not have his eye on the quad at all times.

Some people experience a similar situation and come to the forums saying "I messed up....it's my fault for flying in a risky fashion, etc.".
Others go on forever about how it's DJI's fault.

The rest of us should simply learn that when we want to take a risk, we need to buck up when things go wrong. If the quadcopter had dropped on dry land and been sent back to DJI they may have done more. As it stands it's like telling Apple you want AppleCare on the iphone you dropped off the boat last week. It won't happen.

Sorry for injecting reality here - but that's the deal. What part of "do not fly your Phantom over bodies of water" do people not understand? It's basically a toy - even military grade equipment could not be trusted when anything (one motor failing, etc.) could make it fall.

Flying over water is fine...as long as the pilot is ready to take the fall if the bird goes down.

droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-5-14 11:25
No matter how many times I repeat this lots of people are still going to do it.

"If you fly your qu ...

Droneflyers, I disagree.

There's a difference between pilot error "i accidentally seagull swooped my Phantom into the Pacific ocean" and a device that suddenly does something utterly unpredictable. I mean, are you serious? Imagine your new car just suddenly swerved off the road for no reason and into a field. Do you really think it's okay to be told "we advise our drivers not to use "open roads" without reinforced outer barriers." What? Open roads are what a car is for. The fault is in the DEVICE, not in the driver/pilot! No matter what, and no matter how many sources are in the environment,  these expensive drones should be able to make it back if something unpredictable goes wrong. If they don't make it back, then they should be replaced. No more excuses for using the buyers as beta testers.

ams4900@yahoo.c Posted at 2015-5-13 20:45
Did he set...and check home?  DJI has stated that home could be an issue to establish if interfere ...

Lord only knows what type of lasers, radio signals, etc. are hitting that river!
The Flight Path is virtually over MIT.....they do everything from plasma/fusion experiments to "waves and beams" research.
Heck, Mass General has scads of nuclear stuff - there are vast science and research labs lining the banks of that river - in addition to the colleges and thousands of plain old wifi signals.
It would be impossible to put a finger on the "EMI soup" that's in a place like Boston...especially in an open corridor with MIT, Harvard, Mass General and lots of super secretive research centers.

I am sorry that you do not agree with our policy.  You case has been reviewed by senior management in LA.  Their decision is consistent with our company policy.  We have an unrecoverable craft and inconclusive data.  We have offered a reduced price for a replacement.  That was and is the offer.  

lightpanther Posted at 2015-5-14 11:36
Droneflyers, I disagree.

There's a difference between pilot error "i accidentally seagull swooped  ...

"No matter what, and no matter how many sources are in the environment,  these expensive drones should be able to make it back if something unpredictable goes wrong"

Expensive? These things cost less than a laptop computer.....they are certainly not a piece of military grade equipment.
You are flying a $300 quadcopter - a toy. A nice toy, but a toy.

I say $300 because the advanced is
A $300 camera on a $200 gimbal on a $300 quadcopter controlled by a $200 transmitter.

Most all of the flight systems are in the $300 quadcopter - but let's assign 1/2 of the transmitter to the equation. That means a $400 hobby toy.

Given normal manufacturing that means it cost $100 to make the thing which you claim should be able to be bombarded by a particle accelerator at MIT, 2,000 various amplified wifi signals and other misc RF...and make it home no matter what.

If this were true Aircraft carriers would be able to be build for 100 million dollars instead of 3 Billion.
Our military budget would be cut by 1/2 because they could use toy-grade components instead of mil-spec stuff.

We disagree. No one in this hobby for the past 20 years has ever expected what you state.....it's a new attitude that's come up only in the last 8 months or so and it's an impossible bar to clear.

There is only one way the "replace it because I lost it" warranty would work out....this would be for DJI to vastly raise the price of the machines (maybe $200 or more) so that ALL of us would pay into a fund for the folks who want to fly them over rivers and the ocean.

It just cannot be done given the current machines and pricing.

As to some here who commented "some competition is replacing flyaways" - I'd ask you to list me 10 people who have had their "flyaways" replaced by a DJI competitor. Remember, if you are going to speak about a competitor, you have to - as the name implies - talk about a similar machine with similar capability in the same price range.
name it.

If you want to be a pioneer, sometimes you take an arrow in the back.  Take the 30% discount, it's a good deal considering the circumstances.

droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-5-14 11:51
"No matter what, and no matter how many sources are in the environment,  these expensive drones sh ...

"Expensive? These things cost less than a laptop computer.....they are certainly not a piece of military grade equipment.
You are flying a $300 quadcopter - a toy. A nice toy, but a toy."

Funny, because I don't consider a laptop a toy, you see. I consider it a professional piece of electronic equipment which I expect to be manufactured to a high standard. Nor do I consider the money dropped on a laptop to be trivial. Pulling apart the flying component from the camera is silly. This product is marketed as an integrated object, not as a "flying thing with strap on camera." That's like saying you are really paying just for the CPU in your laptop. No...I am paying for the laptop...the thing that is pictured on the box, and if the screen is wonky and goes pink or the power supply burns out, I sure don't think it's because I "set my standards too high."


"Given normal manufacturing that means it cost $100 to make the thing which you claim should be able to be bombarded by a particle accelerator at MIT, 2,000 various amplified wifi signals and other misc RF...and make it home no matter what."

What may or may not happen at MIT is irrelevant. If people can use their TVs, cellphones, and car radios in the area, then they should be able to use a Phantom. Moreover, newbies or even proficient pilots should not *conceivably* have to pore over such things as engineering research catalogs for local institutions to decide whether to fly a quad.

"If this were true Aircraft carriers would be able to be build for 100 million dollars instead of 3 Billion.
Our military budget would be cut by 1/2 because they could use toy-grade components instead of mil-spec stuff."

This is a non sequitur. The purpose and function of aircraft carriers bears no resemblance to the case in point. This is not military ops. This is basic stability and reliability, which should apply at any price range outside of dollar store. And probably even there.

"There is only one way the "replace it because I lost it" warranty would work out....this would be for DJI to vastly raise the price of the machines (maybe $200 or more) so that ALL of us would pay into a fund for the folks who want to fly them over rivers and the ocean."

It just cannot be done given the current machines and pricing."

Yes it can. All you do is change your emphasis to making sure that the platform is stable and reliable *first* before adding further complexities to the software that are rendered meaningless if the basic stability has not yet been established. Who cares if the camera is 4k if the Phantom falls out of the sky? With a cracked lens it's a Ok camera? Like you, I don't mean to be harsher than I sound, but I don't buy it. Well actually, I did buy it. But frankly, I'm worried. Will my Phantom fly away? Will it drop suddenly like a coconut leaving my hands trembling over an orphaned transmitter? If I fly it over a river or even a creek is that too "risky"? If I lose the bird too even after reading everything and being super careful, which I intend to do, will I also get a "30% reduction offer" email? If DJI is selling millions of these things, then they can afford a replacement policy. It's up to them whether they implement it. It's not up to them to decide whether their users are impressed or not when they don't.

droneflyers.com Posted at 2015-5-14 11:25
No matter how many times I repeat this lots of people are still going to do it.

"If you fly your qu ...

I have to say I cannot agree with many things you've said here.

The place I flied is more than 4 miles away from Logan Airport, it's almost at the edge of the flight restricted area, no way near the no fly zone and I was flying within the height limit, I didn't fly over crowd or the bridge, I flied my p2 in this area several times without any issue, I'm familer with the place and the weather is better than just fine; so NO, I don't think it's a irresponsible flying.

I did not fly over MIT, I took off near it and go straight to the river, and I seriously doubt those lasers or radio signals or radiations would be all over the place or "over the chart", MIT or any institution should have decent emission control system, otherwise they would have caused many more problems rather than just a drone crash.

BTW your analogy between a phone drop in water and a drone crash doesn't make sense to me at all. A phone won't jump into water by itself, but my drone did.


I said I believe it's 70% DJI's fault for good reasons, and I have the video and flight log as evidence. my data maybe not enough to determine the exact cause of the drop, BUT it's probably enough to rule out user error. The last minutes video and flight record fits perfectly and you can see what I was doing, until the moment I lost connection. Sure I don't have anything showing what happend at that exact moment and after that, but let me ask this, what kind of user error or practice could cause a P3 lost communication and drop imediately? Even I'm a bad ass and want to drop p3 in the river without leaving any trace, there is no way I could do it. Stop the moter in the mid-air? then flight log will record that action as well as the video. it has to be something wrong with the unit, no matter it was a battery failure or firmware issue, it's the product's problem. And I beilive that should be enough for a replacement.


I don't know much about fly-away replacement cases, but I did see 3d robotic clearly promised this in their ads, and I do believe their method is valid and applicatble. hopefully they could keep their promises unlike those DJI ads, which showing P3 flying over all kinds of places where it supposed to stay away from.

Right now it seems DJI don't want to compromise at all, but whether I may or may not accept that offer, unwillinly, I have to make my point.

1. Watching DJI movie ads flying over water and flowing lava (wait, did I just say flowing LAVA???) hearing lines such as "Any obstacle that might hamper controllability, can rely on the intelligence of the Phantom 3 to never become disoriented or lost, it makes flying completely effortless and it will always come home."
2. Drooling meanwhile ordering an Phantom 3
3. Reading this forum and noticing DJI's response "you chose to fly your unit over open bodies of water, something we advise against"
4. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to laugh or cry or do both

Why do people waste their time with Droneflyers... His posts are all about "HOW ALWAYS DJI IS RIGHT" and how perfect everything is in fairytale land....  LOL

silverqsy@gmail Posted at 2015-5-14 15:02
I have to say I cannot agree with many things you've said here.

The place I flied is more than 4 m ...

It is a fairly sensitive area to fly, wonder if MIT was testing a HERF gun lol

I have a question, maybe a stupid one, but...

What technical reasons are given not to fly over water? I mean, why isn't the same fliyng 100 meters high over fields and flying 100 meters high over water?

Please, I would like to know the most accurate reason for that, because I don't understand...

joanenricc@yaho Posted at 2015-5-15 05:13
I have a question, maybe a stupid one, but...

What technical reasons are given not to fly over wate ...

It's called CYA by DJI. An easy out for them for upcoming complaints.

ruprick@gmail.c Posted at 2015-5-15 05:22
It's called CYA by DJI. An easy out for them for upcoming complaints.

Don't understand... really, I try but I can't.

In terms of flight, the bird itself can differentiate what surface is flying over? That's why I asked, in my example, what is the difference at 50, 100 or 120 meters high...