WebParrot Posted at 2018-3-13 07:34
You've obviously not traveled to other countries!  I would expect this in some other countries.

In many countries you have to show your ID when an officer ask for it. In EU you have to always identify yourself. Especially if you are driving a car!

Bigplumbs Posted at 2018-3-14 14:34
In the UK Trespass is a Civil action and nothing to do with the Police No Idea if this is the same in the US

In America if you trespass, there is a real danger owner will shoot you.

Bigplumbs Posted at 2018-3-14 14:34
In the UK Trespass is a Civil action and nothing to do with the Police No Idea if this is the same in the US

There is an actual crime called Criminal Trespass.

They do provoke Google them and see what they do, they are activist and have had several drones already shot down

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-3-14 15:44
In America if you trespass, there is a real danger owner will shoot you.

Not exactly.  99.9999999% of people will politely ask you to get the hell off of their property.  Now, if you break into our house, you will be carried out.

I bet you the cop that said "I don't have a drone and not planning on buying a drone" has a Mavic pro.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-3-14 15:44
In America if you trespass, there is a real danger owner will shoot you.

That is not true.  It is illegal to shoot people on your property.  But if you are armed and they object to being told to leave, and then attack you, you can shoot them.  Typically, if the owner wants them gone and  the trespasser for some reason refuses to leave but doesn't threaten the owner, cops have to be called to arrest the trespasser.

But, it is tradition to promptly shoot British Redcoats if they are trespassing on a U.S. citizen's property.  Just saying.

Bigplumbs Posted at 2018-3-13 23:14
What the cops need to safely do their job are to get rid of all those guns in America

Haha, British Redcoats have been trying to disarm the USA populous since the United States was created.   So nice try

These people were being pains for the camera click bait.  Nothing else.  I bet they have been to jail before or have close family members that are in jail, based on their attitude.  Does it ever work out to fight the police on the street?  Dumb.  Easier, and actually effective, to have your lawyer do it.

Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-14 14:26
It isn't the NYPD. This happened in Wayne County which is on Lake Ontario between Rochester and Syracuse.

Sorry you are wrong. That was a NY State Police officer that detained them. Scoot to about 14:00 on the video.

Cheers!

Bob Brown Posted at 2018-3-15 13:31
Sorry you are wrong. That was a NY State Police officer that detained them. Scoot to about 14:00 on the video.

Cheers!

NY State Police are not NYPD. You are wrong.

Gunship9 Posted at 2018-3-14 19:50
That is not true.  It is illegal to shoot people on your property.  But if you are armed and they object to being told to leave, and then attack you, you can shoot them.  Typically, if the owner wants them gone and  the trespasser for some reason refuses to leave but doesn't threaten the owner, cops have to be called to arrest the trespasser.

But, it is tradition to promptly shoot British Redcoats if they are trespassing on a U.S. citizen's property.  Just saying.

Sorry for my bad, but all we hear about here is Americans shooting each other, we believe that if there are no guns nobody gets shot, it’s worked for us so far, although we did have 2 deaths due to shooting in 2017, we ran the redcoats out a long time ago.

look like you was spying animal group activice. Then being a jerk to the cop when you got busted for it

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-3-15 14:46
Sorry for my bad, but all we hear about here is Americans shooting each other, we believe that if there are no guns nobody gets shot, it’s worked for us so far, although we did have 2 deaths due to shooting in 2017, we ran the redcoats out a long time ago.

LOL.  As Archie Bunker said to his hippy daughter about the number of people murdered by people using guns, "Would you feel any better, little girl,... if they were pushed out a window?"

People are still murdered frequently in Mexico, England, Detroit, and many other places where guns are outlawed.  I don't see banning guns as doing anything but empowering criminals.  Making their career safer for them.  

Plus, I will give up guns protecting me, when the Queen of England dismisses her armed guards.  Remove all the guns protecting the political elite and we will see if banning all guns solves things for us.

So there are plenty of guns in England.  Just not for the peasants.  Long standing tradition, I hear.

djiuser_1zLTa1sLhHT8 Posted at 2018-3-15 15:41
look like you was spying animal group activice. Then being a jerk to the cop when you got busted for it

It wasn’t me.

Gunship9 Posted at 2018-3-15 15:47
LOL.  As Archie Bunker said to his hippy daughter about the number of people murdered by people using guns, "Would you feel any better, little girl, if they were pushed out a window?"

People are still murdered frequently in Mexico, England, Detroit, and many other places where guns are outlawed.  I don't see banning guns as doing anything but empowering criminals.  Making their career safer for them.  

We put criminals in jail and we don’t need to do it with guns, I think you would be mistaken to think that UK gun crime or murder rate from guns is anything like US, anyways it’s not my intention to lecture anyone on whether the use of guns make this world a safer place, each to his own.

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-3-15 15:59
We put criminals in jail and we don’t need to do it with guns, I think you would be mistaken to think that UK gun crime or murder rate from guns is anything like US, anyways it’s not my intention to lecture anyone on whether the use of guns make this world a safer place, each to his own.

I am not fooled into thinking that your gun crime rate means you have no one murdered.  You still murder the same number of people you want to but you just do it with clubs, strangulation, beating to death, and stabbings.  Hence the archey bunker quote.  Your rate of murder has to do with culture and a lot of other factors.  It has little to do with the tools at your disposal.

Besides, I have a bon fire pit, lots of beer, and two gun ranges in my neighborhood.  I have to have guns.  Although oddly, the us guys don't care about guns.  It is the wives that have got into the hobby.  One neighbor's wife is a cop.  I think most wives here are concealed carry.  Men here don't carry.  Just push the wives into play and run.  Most of us guys are more into archery.  Archery is very relaxing in a zen way.

Kidding, it is all in good jest as such a sensitive subject can be.

Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-13 18:56
He’s driving a vehicle on public roads which requires a driver’s license. When a cop asks you for it you must provide it. These people are assholes and deserves to go to jail. The cops were very polite and professional.

The "probable cause" was so weak that they should not have stopped them in the first place.  If a cop pulls you over and is unable as to tell you what law you have violated, then they don't belong to be pulling them over.  Using the identification thing as a crutch for detainment indicates to me that local law enforcement team are amateurs.

M K ULTRA Posted at 2018-3-15 16:45
The "probable cause" was so weak that they should not have stopped them in the first place.  If a cop pulls you over and is unable as to tell you what law you have violated, then they don't belong to be pulling them over.  Using the identification thing as a crutch for detainment indicates to me that local law enforcement team are amateurs.

If the cop is in the wrong sort it out later. When he pulls you over and asks for ID you produce it. Once you prove that you are no danger to him, then you can discuss minor points of law.

Luca Rubino Posted at 2018-3-14 15:05
In many countries you have to show your ID when an officer ask for it. In EU you have to always identify yourself. Especially if you are driving a car!

In many states in the US it is also a requirement.  In other states there must be "cause" or a reason for officer intervention.  Citizens have a right to know why they are being detained and the "reason" must be of statute.  The tatics displayed here are of clinical intimidation, similar to what you see in the military.  "Do as I say and don't ask questions."   

Someone called and reported you as flying a drone around their property.  They can follow up on a citizen complaint as to the nature of your flight.  They can request your identification and verify that you are a licensed drone operator, part 107 or hobbyist.  They can do this under the scope of eliminating criminal intent, verify you have no criminal record so that the flight isn't part of a future crime.  The only thing you did was waste a lot of peoples time.  They could file a complaint against you with the FAA and you could receive fines and/or lose your license to legally fly a drone.

pyott Posted at 2018-3-16 11:30
Someone called and reported you as flying a drone around their property.  They can follow up on a citizen complaint as to the nature of your flight.  They can request your identification and verify that you are a licensed drone operator, part 107 or hobbyist.  They can do this under the scope of eliminating criminal intent, verify you have no criminal record so that the flight isn't part of a future crime.  The only thing you did was waste a lot of peoples time.  They could file a complaint against you with the FAA and you could receive fines and/or lose your license to legally fly a drone.

They can send out the army to get me CIA FBI etc etc, they will find me on the west coast of Ireland sitting by the fire having a wee dram, however it will do them no good as I’m not the person involved, he’s a clown from the US..

Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-15 17:42
If the cop is in the wrong sort it out later. When he pulls you over and asks for ID you produce it. Once you prove that you are no danger to him, then you can discuss minor points of law.

That’s just full of common sense.

“Nowadays most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.”

duke123 Posted at 2018-3-13 16:48
Thats the key with dealing with the police, be nice and do as they ask and there will be no problems, there are always a few jerks out there that don't want to cooperate.

So just bend over and grab your ankles just because they simply say so? Yeah F that!

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-3-14 14:29
I agree with the jerk bit,

Curious to know how the driver was being a jerk? He was asking what crime he had committed. His stand point was that no crime was committed and he was simply standing by it.

Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-13 18:56
He’s driving a vehicle on public roads which requires a driver’s license. When a cop asks you for it you must provide it. These people are assholes and deserves to go to jail. The cops were very polite and professional.

Along the lines of what I was thinking.  
The Driver had to produce ID in form of Driver's license.  The others are not required to have ID on them.   But may have to state their names.

"In 24 states police may require you to identify yourself. (If they have reasonable suspicion that you’re involved in criminal activity.)  “Stop and identify” statutes are laws in the United States that allow  police to detain persons and request such persons to identify  themselves, and arrest them if they do not.  Except when driving, the requirement to identify oneself does not  require a person who has been detained to provide physical  identification. Verbally giving identifying information is sufficient to  satisfy that requirement."

DanielTheRider Posted at 2018-3-28 10:48
Curious to know how the driver was being a jerk? He was asking what crime he had committed. His stand point was that no crime was committed and he was simply standing by it.

Issue was driver kept asking why, rather than providing ID, driver's license.  Which is required being he is the driver.  The driver was being cagey, prompting reasonable suspicion.  

Had driver provided ID, and everyone in car stated their names, then it might have been a different story.  Depending on whether driver and passengers did something to raise officer's suspicions.  Or officer during stop spotted something that could indicate criminal intent.  

Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-14 16:57
Not exactly.  99.9999999% of people will politely ask you to get the hell off of their property.  Now, if you break into our house, you will be carried out.

The Castle Doctrine, stemming from old (1600s) English Common Law.  Which goes back to Roman times, and appears to have been derived from laws of Biblical times.

WebParrot Posted at 2018-3-13 07:32
I'm in full agreement.  I suspect the private business that initiated the complaint has had prior issues with demonstrators and are on the radar of law enforcement to help them deal with the disagreements (I'm trying to be kind.)  That they had to have their own security force is telling in itself!

While I don't completely agree with the "accused" for not complying, I do think it would have been helpful for them to anticipate problems and be prepared with written verse-and-song about their legal rights.

"I suspect the private business that initiated the complaint has had prior issues with demonstrators and are on the radar of law enforcement to help them deal with the disagreements (I'm trying to be kind.)  That they had to have their own security force is telling in itself!"

Could also be that business is covertly doing work for U.S. Government.  Which can escalate what seems to be a trival matter into a serious problem, regardless of what your legal rights are or you thought they were.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-3-28 11:26
Issue was driver kept asking why, rather than providing ID, driver's license.  Which is required being he is the driver.  The driver was being cagey, prompting reasonable suspicion.  

Had driver provided ID, and everyone in car stated their names, then it might have been a different story.  Depending on whether driver and passengers did something to raise officer's suspicions.  Or officer during stop spotted something that could indicate criminal intent.

But if there was no crime, no need. Now if the driver did something unlawful WHILE driving, I can understand.

M2Wair Posted at 2018-3-13 05:29
The guys didn't help themselves and identify themselves to police officers when requested to do so, so go figure the police offers arrested them. That having been said they didn't break any laws, so why stop them!

It that State, is it law that you must identify yourself even if you're not being investigated for committing a crime? Here in Texas, that's not the law. You can refuse to provide identification unless the officer is investigating a crime (not a potential crime) and questioning you in reference to said crime. What's illegal is NOT providing ID if you are being questioned in relation to a crime, or providing false ID. Again, that's in Texas though. Not sure about in the State where this video was shot.

DanielTheRider Posted at 2018-3-28 10:48
Curious to know how the driver was being a jerk? He was asking what crime he had committed. His stand point was that no crime was committed and he was simply standing by it.

Ok it’s very simple, first we should all respect our law enforcement, these people put there lives on the line every day for the common good, yes they sometimes make mistakes but we should do what we can to support them where we can.
It was a case of showing identity and the matter would have been closed, if they had have shown identity and felt it was wrong to be asked, then take their case further, but don’t waste time blocking those who are there to see matters resolved in a civil manner.
But what happened was that a whole lot of their time and police time was wasted on a matter of principle.
We haven’t seen the outcome of this incident but my bet is this went no further and the gains made on you tube for these guys were sufficient and principles could go to the dogs.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-3-28 11:46
"I suspect the private business that initiated the complaint has had prior issues with demonstrators and are on the radar of law enforcement to help them deal with the disagreements (I'm trying to be kind.)  That they had to have their own security force is telling in itself!"

Could also be that business is covertly doing work for U.S. Government.  Which can escalate what seems to be a trival matter into a serious problem, regardless of what your legal rights are or you thought they were.

Well, I don't ever subscribe 'consipracy theories' without some facts (not opinions) being cited.  It seems like a cop-out (no pun intended) for a more likely explanation.  SHARK doesn't go into their evidence collection schemes to look for government conspiracies.  Their issue(s) have always been humane treatment of animals.  

You're welcome to your opinion of the remote possibility, I'm not signing on, though.

Mavic Ace Posted at 2018-3-14 14:26
It isn't the NYPD. This happened in Wayne County which is on Lake Ontario between Rochester and Syracuse.

I can't speak for New York, but in my area the 'county mounties' and state highway patrol are comprised of many former military, MP's, SP's, AP's.  In the military, authority is absolute in two ways... you're out ranked, or you follow the orders of the military cops.  That's the way they (and we) were trained.... comply and ask quesitons later.  I believe that attitude caries forward into their "civilian" manifestation of their authority.  They just can't turn it off and without another officer's level head, or a supervisor's knowledge, it goes amiss.

WebParrot Posted at 2018-3-28 13:39
Well, I don't ever subscribe 'consipracy theories' without some facts (not opinions) being cited.  It seems like a cop-out (no pun intended) for a more likely explanation.  SHARK doesn't go into their evidence collection schemes to look for government conspiracies.  Their issue(s) have always been humane treatment of animals.  

You're welcome to your opinion of the remote possibility, I'm not signing on, though.

You completely missed point and warning.  Mine was one of a general warning.
There are some places protected by private security, that are tied in with government.
Act like those guys did, and you could well find yourself being taking to jail.

Hahahah, but sad

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-3-28 15:40
You completely missed point and warning.  Mine was one of a general warning.
There are some places protected by private security, that are tied in with government.
Act like those guys did, and you could well find yourself being taking to jail.

Well if I missed your point it was because of the way you typed it!  Your Post#68 reads:

"Could also be that business is covertly doing work for U.S. Government."

If anything, your wording was misleading, and my reply directed in that regard.

WebParrot Posted at 2018-3-29 04:41
Well if I missed your point it was because of the way you typed it!  Your Post#68 reads:

"Could also be that business is covertly doing work for U.S. Government."

Guess the "Could also be", read to much like "That business is".

At least in case of two companies I worked at that did work with U.S. Government, and had Government employees present at companies - neither put up signs advertising the fact.  Both had their own security.  Both had cooperation of local police to deal with people like those shown in video.

`What a shame....

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-3-29 08:09
Guess the "Could also be", read to much like "That business is".

At least in case of two companies I worked at that did work with U.S. Government, and had Government employees present at companies - neither put up signs advertising the fact.  Both had their own security.  Both had cooperation of local police to deal with people like those shown in video.

Fair comment / reply.  Thank you.