Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Over 11,000 feet in distance with my P3P
2539 31 2015-5-12
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
jeffhall916
lvl.1

United States
Offline

Some of the recent videos I have made. Golden Gate being one of my most proud! Watch in 4k if you can







2015-5-12
Use props
dmwierz
lvl.4
Flight distance : 61427 ft
United States
Offline

Jeff, as spectacular as your videos are, and I don't mean to be a downer, but you do realize that not only were you flying in restricted airspace (National Park), but it appears you are well above the 500 ft AGL limit as well as subtantially beyond line of site?
Screen Shot 2015-05-12 at 10.59.40 AM.png
2015-5-12
Use props
jeffhall916
lvl.1

United States
Offline

dmwierz Posted at 2015-5-13 00:07
Jeff, as spectacular as your videos are, and I don't mean to be a downer, but you do realize that no ...

I should have stated that I had a Ranger with me the whole time and I had clearance. The winds were very high and no aircrafts were in the area. He was great and amazed at the same time
2015-5-12
Use props
dmwierz
lvl.4
Flight distance : 61427 ft
United States
Offline

jeffhall916@gma Posted at 2015-5-13 00:15
I should have stated that I had a Ranger with me the whole time and I had clearance. The winds wer ...

Ok, cool. Just for my edification, how did you "get clearance"?
2015-5-12
Use props
jeffhall916
lvl.1

United States
Offline

dmwierz Posted at 2015-5-13 00:16
Ok, cool. Just for my edification, how did you "get clearance"?

I originally went there to take photos but brought it with me. I saw a Ranger and asked what he thought of me flying it. He originally told me no, then told me to hold on. I was taking photos and he came back 30 min later and said it was ok but that he would oversee it, I was fine with that.
2015-5-12
Use props
dmwierz
lvl.4
Flight distance : 61427 ft
United States
Offline

Jeff, I may be wrong, but I don't think grabbing a Ranger and having him tell you it's OK constitutes approval, even if he is "overseeing" it.

Again, I'm not trying to be a Drone Nazi, but videos like the ones you've publicly posted are exactly the kinds of things that can raise all kinds of issues with officials who monitor YouTube and other places.  An astounding amount of commercial and military traffic passes through the Golden Gate, and for this reason, DHS has identified it as a big target for people wishing to do bad things, and the vision of a drone laden with hazardous cargo flying over this passage is not something any of us want people thinking of.

Flying over a stadium in use by a team (it looks like a practice is going on) as well as a populated urban area also raises a big red flag.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope I am, cuz my imagination swims at the possibilities for using a P3 in areas like this.
2015-5-12
Use props
jeffhall916
lvl.1

United States
Offline

dmwierz Posted at 2015-5-13 00:34
Jeff, I may be wrong, but I don't think grabbing a Ranger and having him tell you it's OK constitute ...

And this is not against you at all. I did all my research and I try to fly responsibly. AT&T Park has no restrictions other than you cannot fly 2 hours before a game and cannot fly an hour after a game. I was well within the limits, SFPD thanked for doing that as well. I am not a guy that goes out there and "just flies and I don't care what happens" kind of guy. A do appreciate your input. I just wanted people to know that I do research before flying
2015-5-12
Use props
Calvette
lvl.4
Flight distance : 103222 ft
United States
Offline

Jeff, GREAT videos!  Glad you shot and shared them with us.  I know that area well since I live in the East Bay.   Surprising how well the bird handled the wind there.
2015-5-12
Use props
jeffhall916
lvl.1

United States
Offline

Calvette Posted at 2015-5-13 01:44
Jeff, GREAT videos!  Glad you shot and shared them with us.  I know that area well since I live in t ...

Thanks! I grew up in Redwood City and I never get tired of going to SF. I was shocked too, never thought it would have flied the way it did, surprisingly impressed!
2015-5-12
Use props
PaulOTron
lvl.2

United States
Offline

Ugh.  I'm sorry I feel the need to jump on the "downer bandwagon".  But the facts are, the towers of the GG bridge are 746 feet tall, and the drone was above them.

I don't know if the ranger said he/she allowed it, or if he/she had the authority to do so, but I still have my own position on it: There are some things that are LEGAL, but we should avoid doing anyway.  Flying low over people, or flying where drones are unwelcome.  I will fly over houses, but I don't fly low enough near houses that the drone can be heard, or create the appearance that private activities are the subject of the images we capture.

At the GG bridge, in particular, there are a number of news stories about citizens worrying about drones.  Those concerns may be unfounded and people might be paranoid.  But in the end, restrictive laws come from popular opinion which persuades politicians.  Even if we stay legal, we should all avoid "pushing the edge" of legal limitations, or just irritating people... even unreasonable people.

That said, the videos are beautiful and I'm jealous it wasn't me.
2015-5-12
Use props
Mikey14
lvl.3

United States
Offline

OMG, I'm new to the drone world but everyone need to keep their opinions to themselves.  Don't worry about what other people do with their Phantoms. Its not gonna effect you. You sound like a bunch of bickering hens!
Just enjoy the videos and don't ask questions or try and be the internet quadcopter police. Don't assume anything from videos. GEEZ! Sometimes you need to stretch the limit to get the right shot.'
You sound like those people who say DON'T breed your dog and rescue one. NO, I don't want someone elses problem. If I can make the perfect dog that I want then I will!!! You're right, there are too many dogs that need adopting but it's my choice and I don't want that.
2015-5-12
Use props
john.lambert4
lvl.3

Australia
Offline

Mikey14 Posted at 2015-5-13 09:31
OMG, I'm new to the drone world but everyone need to keep their opinions to themselves.  Don't worry ...

Well put, however I think everyone's concerns are to help users of drones be aware of local laws so they don't get fined (already happening here in Australia with CASA searching YouTube videos and fining the pilots).

I'm sure we all have everyone's best interests at heart when we mention about night flying, restricted areas, too high, etc.  Not everyone may be fully aware of these?
2015-5-12
Use props
stevesx55
lvl.4
Flight distance : 942651 ft
United States
Offline

Great Video!!! amazing how steady the P3 is in that kind of wind..
2015-5-12
Use props
Viking Tattoos
lvl.2
Flight distance : 549531 ft
United States
Offline

Jeff, what is that white thing waving in some sections of the video??    BTW i loved the videos..  
2015-5-12
Use props
pdesloge
New

Hong Kong
Offline

Mikey14 Posted at 2015-5-13 09:31
OMG, I'm new to the drone world but everyone need to keep their opinions to themselves.  Don't worry ...

I don't agree that what one user does will not effect others.   Every time one user pushes the envelope of permissibility it creates the perceived need for  even more restrictive rules!
2015-5-12
Use props
dmwierz
lvl.4
Flight distance : 61427 ft
United States
Offline

Look, this isn't about protecting the OP from getting fined or to educate him on something he should already know...Flying over a National Park, in excess of allowable altitude limitations, and over a crowd in a public area of a major city are the very actions that could very well put all of our futures in jeopardy.

Just what we need; more headlines about a drone falling on people in San Fransisco, or being sighted over the Golden Gate Bridge, a location that has been near the top of the DHS potential target list for years, or flying high enough to interfere with other aircraft who HAVE legitimate authority to fly there.

Despite what any of you think, or what you would like to be true, you are not free to do whatever you want, whenever you want. There are places you cannot fly because you put other people in danger, or where aircraft are not allowed because of security concerns. Highlighting this fact makes us responsible adults, not "bickering hens.                        
2015-5-12
Use props
Mikey14
lvl.3

United States
Offline

I drive faster than what the speed limit says which means i put everyone at risk including my wife and son (I actually don't drive fast when my newborn is in the car) That is my choice and I don't need someone like you telling me how to drive or to slow down, just enjoy the sight of how nice my car is. I might get a ticket and may or may not learn my lesson but everyone elses driving priviledges aren't gonna be effected because i drive fast.
As soon as I get my P3P, I am gonna make a short video of me flying over and outside nursery filled with babies. I can't wait to see what you have to say about that other than I got some good videos of babies!
2015-5-12
Use props
BrewserB
lvl.1

United States
Offline

There is no way in hell in driving over that Foresthill bridge. LOL How far is it across? I'm just amazed at the distance you're getting. I would be a bit scared to take it over the bridge in case something happened and dropped. You would be screwed. I'll have to take mine out into the country to get a good handle on distance but so fare you have shown it will go quite far (in right conditions).
2015-5-12
Use props
joanenricc
lvl.2

Spain
Offline

Great videos!
By the way, maybe because I'm a newbie...I don't think I would be so confident to do this kind of shots...
2015-5-13
Use props
aburkefl
lvl.4
Flight distance : 78612 ft
United States
Offline

jeffhall916@gma Posted at 2015-5-13 00:54
And this is not against you at all. I did all my research and I try to fly responsibly. AT&T Park  ...

The other poster did pre-apologize for being a drone-Nazi, but...

I commend your actions. Perhaps, in a perfect politically-correct world, there would be forms to be filled out, t's to be crossed, i's dotted, etc., but I think you approached it just fine.

My wife and I recently returned from a 2-week visit in France. We were in one particularly famous church and there were very large signs posted stating "SORRY, NO PHOTOGRAPHS!" I suspect you are one of the people who would have been standing with me with their hands in their pockets while others were snapping away like fiends. I was tickled when the irreverent snappers were asked to leave.

Great pics. I envy you. When I bought my Blade, my first thoughts were of filming places like Yellowstone, where we visited last year. Alas, I quickly discovered the anti-drone rules in either all or most national parks.

My wife and I also visited Mont Saint Michel. Saw some incredible drone photos just before we went, but the videographer explained in great detail the cooperation between the French national police and the local law officials. While there, I had to make do with my handheld gimbal and my GoPro!
2015-5-13
Use props
mjyatess
lvl.1

United Kingdom
Offline

I'm all for having fun and getting incredible footage like this (which don't get me wrong, this footage really is incredible), but we do have a level of responsibility as drone pilots. I think there is a huge difference between not taking photos in a church, and flying a small aircraft in restricted airspace. And those of you that call us buzzkills or bores, we're just trying to be responsible as part of the drone community at large, because if we aren't you'll soon not be able to fly anywhere.
2015-5-13
Use props
Calvette
lvl.4
Flight distance : 103222 ft
United States
Offline

PaulOTron Posted at 2015-5-13 04:26
Ugh.  I'm sorry I feel the need to jump on the "downer bandwagon".  But the facts are, the towers of ...

"But the facts are, the towers of the GG bridge are 746 feet tall, "
But he didn't fly that high.  His flight started/ended above the valley that that the bridge sits in.
2015-5-13
Use props
dmwierz
lvl.4
Flight distance : 61427 ft
United States
Offline

Look, I'll never convince anyone of anything, especially in a mostly-anonymous forum like this, but I've gotta try.

I live downtown in a major US metro area and I see goofballs flying drones over crowded city streets, over monuments, over parks, ALL the time. Last year during and just before the 4th of July fireworks celebrations, there were no fewer than 4 drones in the air, three of them Phantoms, buzzing over the crowd estimated at 200,00 spectators, and one was inside the fireworks, over hundreds of boats. You think any of these guys thought "what would happen if I had a fly-away, or if I lost control of my drone?"? Not a chance.

A few evenings ago, I walked onto our balcony to catch some springtime sun and warmth, and heard a familiar buzzing sound. Sure enough, some idiot was flying an Inspire 1 right outside our building (we overlook a river that goes right through the downtown area). It was at least 600 feet above the ground. It hovered there for a while, then took off out of sight (out of my sight, and more importantly, out of sight of the pilot) around our building, out over rush hour traffic and the crowded street on the ground. I saw the pilot in a clearing below our building and went down to chat with him, but he was gone by the time I got there. I was not going to scold him, wasn't going to call the police, or anything like that. I just wanted to ask him if he had thought about what would happen if his $3K toy malfunctioned and crashed, or if somebody didn't appreciate having a drone hover outside their balcony (the camera was pointed away from our building, at the river, but 99.9% of people wouldn't have known this) and called the police on him?  

You don't think I haven't considered how "cool" it would be to fly around down here, skimming over the river, between or over the skyscrapers, zooming under bridges, screaming over sailboats on the lake, hovering over a fountain, etc.? Of course I have. What has stopped me is the realization that if something bad happened, someone or something could be seriously damaged or injured. That's what responsible people do - they analyze what the consequences are of something going wrong as the result of their actions, and make a considered decision on whether what they are doing is wise. And I don't mean the risks just to themselves; I mean the risk to others. They also research the laws and regulations to ensure they are operating appropriately.

Maybe this is where I see many pilots/owners go astray: they make the risk/reward decision based on the risks to THEM, not to others. "Am I willing to risk losing or damaging my aircraft? Yeah, it would be expensive, but just THINK of the cool video I can take and show to all my friends, and really, what are the odds something's gonna go wrong?". They never consider what would happen to OTHER PEOPLE should something go wrong. Or...more likely they just don't care, and simply figure, "it's a free country - don't tell ME what i can't do".

I cringe every time I see something like the (well done and beautiful, but that's not the point) videos Jeff posted, AND when I read people rationalizing why it was OK to do what they or others have done, or deflecting the discussion over their possibly irresponsible actions onto the people who try to show them that what they are doing may not be cool. I don't think Jeff was consciously acting recklesly. I'll gladly give him the benefit of this doubt. It sounds as though he attempted to get what he thought was approval to fly over the Golden Gate National Park, although I seriously doubt a Park Ranger has the authority to grant such approval.

More generically, though. when, not if, one of these small drones falls out of the sky and injures someone, or worse, the pilot/owner may or may not suffer whatever the consequences are (how likely is it that he or she will have liability insurance?), and then will move on with his life, returning to his day job, minus his drone. He'll look back on this years later "Remember how cool that was when we had that drone? DUDE, that was awesome!"

However, some of us make a living taking photos and videos (me), terrestrial and aerial, and we will be the real losers, as undoubtedly the long-term results of incidents like this will be EVERYBODY will pay the price for the reckless actions of a few. More restrictive laws and regulations will ensue. More bureaucratic red tape to go through to ply our trade.  

I'm done, now. Do what you want to do, when you want to do it. You're going to anyway. Hey, this is a free country, right? Laws, Shmaws. Regulations, Shmegulations. FAA, ShmeffAA. Other People, Shmother People.
2015-5-13
Use props
xguy4ku
lvl.1

United States
Offline

Night shot of stadium, from 3:44 on at the very end is Spec fucking tacular
2015-5-13
Use props
imdjay
lvl.2
Flight distance : 194541 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

the arrogance & ignorance of some of the folks in here and abroad will be the reason for tighter restrictions of unmanned aircraft.

Flying is not driving.

Illegal, is illegal.

Irresponsible is irresponsible.

Pretty images and entitlement complexes do not excuse any of these things.

Anyone who can't/won't understand the reasons for appropriate flying, should not be flying in the first place. There is no room for being kind about this, because it does affect more than just the pilot and his or her choices. You crash your toy into a car causing a pileup with deaths, enjoy seeing your wife and newborn behind thick glass.
2015-5-13
Use props
PaulOTron
lvl.2

United States
Offline

Calvette Posted at 2015-5-13 21:10
"But the facts are, the towers of the GG bridge are 746 feet tall, "
But he didn't fly that high.   ...

How is the launch altitude relevant?  By that logic you could launch from a skyscraper and legally fly 400 feet above that point.

It's my understanding (and I'm no expert) that any legal reference to altitude uses one of the following to define "Zero altitude":

AGL = "Above Ground Level".  That is, when you fly through a valley, the valley floor is where the bottom of your imaginary tape measure goes.  Above water, that's the water level and above hills, it may be from the peak of the hill.  Roofs of skyscrapers and other structures don't count.

AMSL = "Above Mean Sea Level".  Simple.

HAAT / EHAAT = "Height Above Average Terrain" or "Effective Height Above Average Terrain"  The specific definition is fairly complicated, but basically it takes the elevation of several peaks and valleys nearby, and averages them.  The radius and number of measured points varies depending on the regulatory agency, but for our purposes we might consider it halfway between the valley floor and the average nearby peaks.

I believe the FAA's ceiling is 400 feet AGL, so when above water, it's 400 feet above the water's surface.

I just looked all this up, but my level of certainty about all this stuff is only about 85%, so if I'm wrong, someone please correct me and provide a source.
2015-5-13
Use props
jeffhall916
lvl.1

United States
Offline

Viking Tattoos Posted at 2015-5-13 11:00
Jeff, what is that white thing waving in some sections of the video??    BTW i loved the videos..

Those were the legs of the Phantom. I was pulling hard left and they got in the shot lol
2015-5-13
Use props
ArmyScout
lvl.2

United States
Offline

Bravo Jeff, Amazing shots!  Keep em coming!! Haters are gonna hate regardless of what you do.
2015-5-13
Use props
jeffhall916
lvl.1

United States
Offline

imdjay Posted at 2015-5-14 00:20
the arrogance & ignorance of some of the folks in here and abroad will be the reason for tighter res ...

At what point did I fly over the GG Bridge? I didn't, for that simple reason. I flew over the water, if it drops, it goes in the water and that is MY loss, not yours. It is MY $1300 gone, NOT yours. As I appreciate all of your comments, I feel I fly responsibly. I don't do dumb s%$! and fly and do reckless things. I am a photographer and I want to capture this world from how I want to see it and how others do too. If I fly the bird, I will do it in the utmost, best way that I can. 2 out of 3 of those videos I had permission to do so. 3rd one I didn't need it.

It's a debate that could go on forever so I am done.

Bridge is 2428 ft. long. It is about 15 min from me and we always go hiking below, it's beautiful!
2015-5-13
Use props
Fiver
lvl.1

United States
Offline

Is it too late to jump on the downer bandwagon?  While I can't comment about the national park flying issue, I can comment that you have ads embedded on those youtube videos.  Technically that makes your videos commercial, and technically, since they are commercial, you are in violation of FAA regulations.   I suggest you remove the ads from your youtube videos, it's a simple checkbox.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read ... e-videos-on-youtube
2015-5-13
Use props
imdjay
lvl.2
Flight distance : 194541 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

jeffhall916@gma Posted at 2015-5-14 12:23
At what point did I fly over the GG Bridge? I didn't, for that simple reason. I flew over the water ...

I wasn't singling you out, but you're still making excuses that are ignorant to the fact that you are flying directly over active roadways in your second and third videos, and high enough over the GGB that your close distance to it could easily mean your craft falls onto a car (wind, loss of control, etc... ) That's a high speed roadway, not a 25mph countryside, you hit  1 car, you cause a pileup.

I know you're in love with making pretty images, we all are, but if you're seriously turning a blind eye to the possibility that you could have caused others harm, then that's still just plain ignorant.

Everyone needs to realize that excuses Do Not Matter if you cause an incident. And if you do cause an incident, it's the flying community as a whole that will have to suffer the consequences.

I want everyone to capture great images like the ones you posted, but NOT at the risk of doing others harm and incurring stricter use of all of our crafts
2015-5-14
Use props
jeffhall916
lvl.1

United States
Offline

imdjay Posted at 2015-5-14 23:12
I wasn't singling you out, but you're still making excuses that are ignorant to the fact that you  ...

Ok, then I will fly it in my backyard at 1 foot off the ground like you do right? That way nothing will happen at all. Because even if you did fly it in your backyard, it could fly away and hit someone in the head, or a car. Just knock it off. Anyone that flies, something could happen. you could get hit by lightning, you never know. You are ignorant for saying what you do wont hurt anyone, wrong! I will do what I do, and fly as  responsibly as I can. A dumbass would have flew over and through the GGB without asking or saying a word

I'm officially done with the replies
2015-5-14
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules