Heavenone Posted at 2018-5-28 10:37
# 1 Wachtberger
What date of production is your Air?

I have one of the very first produced I believe, at least if one can trust that website analysing the serial numbers. If their information is correct, my MA was produced on 16 December 2017 if I remember it correctly.

A CW Posted at 2018-5-28 13:00
Thank you but only been flying a couple of years  
I think it was the RC and IMU calibrations causing the yaw issue in my case. So relieved all was OK today.
I totally appreciate that the motive of this thread is to help others trouble shoot the issues they are facing rather than to undermine their issue. In my case, there was a minor yaw glitch and thanks to this thread and your efforts I can see it is not a universal problem which I found encouraging.

Thank you for this very valuable feedback that will certainly help others to get their problems solved as well. And nobody needs to wait for another firmware update. One can open a support case any time and get the blackbox data analysed. That will be done by much more competent people and at the end of the day also help to improve the product.

Wachtberger Posted at 2018-5-28 12:54
I fear we shall never learn about that. But I have seen similar firmware updates before that did not allow downgrading. They only do it if important security relevant issues are fixed with an update, this is all I know and can say.

I get that.  And i'm trying to be patient.  but it's difficult.  Especially being a Systems Engineer.  I know what  software updates and firmware updates can do.  

Wachtberger Posted at 2018-5-28 13:11
Thank you for this very valuable feedback that will certainly help others to get their problems solved as well. And nobody needs to wait for another firmware update. One can open a support case any time and get the blackbox data analysed. That will be done by much more competent people and at the end of the day also help to improve the product.

Very true - if the glitch persisted for me today then contacting DJI directly would have been my next step to carry out an official diagnostic evaluation. I'm very pleased that is no longer the case for me.

Heavenone Posted at 2018-5-28 10:34
here answer out of problems with firmware update..

"Update: DJI send me a new drone. So definitely something not right with latest firmware."

what is the firmware version on your new Mavic Air?

3-D Posted at 2018-5-28 13:32
what is the firmware version on your new Mavic Air?

It is not his one as I suspected from the outset. Just found the OP also not giving any details why his aircraft was replaced. Such posts do not help anyone but only create drama.

I just went for a flight a few minutes ago.  When i took off it did have the yaw effect again, but not as bad as it was when i first reported it.  This is a weird situation because my results differ each time i fly.
today, it was flyable, but still not as steady when i took her out.  My distance is getting better though.  was able to go 1900ft before it started complaining.  The interesting thing is that i turn the craft backward, and flew backward for another 1100 ft before it started complaining again.  This time, (now at 3100 ft) video was unusably choppy and signal was going in and out.  I was able to initiate RTH and it turned and started flying home.  Once good signal was restored, i was able to stop RTH and bring it home under my own power.

I point these things out because my experience is different almost each time i fly.  It was not when i bought it.
More testing to come with my particular bird.  i'll layout what i can, but i'm still placing this squarely on the DJI devs.  They did the stereotypical developer move..  "works fine in on mine, send it out!"

3-D Posted at 2018-5-28 13:28
I get that.  And i'm trying to be patient.  but it's difficult.  Especially being a Systems Engineer.  I know what  software updates and firmware updates can do.

Especially being a Systems Engineer.

Defining of a Systems Engineer:


Does hardware maintenance, troubleshooting, and repair down to componet level.  Along with writing reports and planning equipment upgrades and installs.

Does software upgrades, bug hunting, and coding patches.  Along with answering users questions about hardware features and functions.

Does general system adminsitration, verifying backups, data recover, security audits, and helping users with their accounts and programing problems.  Along with tunning and optimization of system.
Occassionaly deals with design issues of system.

Is one that goes in at 3:15 am to handle yet another minor problem that could have waited till next morning, after having been up till 1:00am resolving some other problem.
Tends to be considered by Family and Friends as a nerd or anti-social, because he/she misses most parties, birthdays, weddings, and even occassional funeral.
Lastly, and most importantly System Engineer is scape-goat for everyone elses foul-ups.  

Is there any chance some of those having issues, post their video here.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-5-28 15:06
Especially being a Systems Engineer.

Defining of a Systems Engineer:

Either you are a fellow admin, or you're spying on me...

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-5-28 15:13
Is there any chance some of those having issues, post their video here.

I'll video the next time i go up and post it.  To this point, I've been more consumed with the actual flight than the video.  

Wachtberger, I have to admit, since I did the update to .400  my Mavic Air has been very reliable. My problems prior to that were bad. Disconnects all the time totally unreliable. I know there are some  here on this forum who are experiencing problems since the update and I can speak from experience, it is a royal pain when things are not working right and you're afraid to fly due to them.  I concur with your findings here as my MA is pretty spot on. I had one flight a week or so ago, when I noticed the yaw problem at take off, it slowly yawed to the right with no stick input from me, but I only had 11 Sats locked at the time of lift off. I landed right away and sat there powered up until I had 14 Sats locked, when I took off again it was locked in, no yaw. Thanks for the video.

Thought I was the only one experiencing this. I have to restart 2-3 times to get proper compass calibration. And today after I thought it was all set I flew it up in the air and saw it drift at least 50 feet away. Luckily it was higher than any trees. Something is not right here!

I would like to thank Wachtberger for starting this off. I agree that we need a systematic approach to resolving this issue. And right now we need more tests before we can write off the firmware as not being the cause of the problem. Three flights is really not sufficient to resolve if this is a firmware issue.

My suggests (for what they are worth)
Wachtberger, please repeat those flights just as you did before, same location, controller, drone, similar conditions. Say 5 times if you are willing.
If you have other displays, repeat with another set of five tests.  (this would keep the drone and the remote as constants)

Other should also try and duplicate Wachtberger testing procedure and post the results.

3-D Posted at 2018-5-28 16:05
Either you are a fellow admin, or you're spying on me...

I can can neither confirm nor deny, either...  

#38
in GERMAN forums...there are hundreds of replies to AIR problems after updating and over 10 000 followers...
my last AIR was absolutely perfect
till I updated..the firmware with no chance to roll back,
now yaw turning without sticks...if rising up slowly sudden short turns to the left...
and everywhere also on fields with no houses..heavy interferences...
so if pilots would have the chance to roll back 0.400 there would be a lot less problems now...

I raised up at a pinwheel (sorry for my bad english)
slowly straight..then twice .air turns suddenly to the left....

APAS was deactivated ! BUT the funktion to hide obstacles was activated..
it looks like as if the Air has detected an obstacle and tries to avoid collision and react suddenly like this.
BUT APAS WAS DEACTIVATED,  maybe there is a problem in the software..

Wachtberger Posted at 2018-5-28 12:34
I can fully agree to that. This is also why I tested all three take off modes because my initial suspicion has been that just one or two of them might show the symptoms, while I, normally taking off manually,  had not experienced any problems. Now I have had no problems in all three modes and have reported that (like others did as well).
I want to put one thing straight here once and forever: It is not at all my intention to play anything down or to protect DJI. If I find a problem I report it frankly and have done so many times before. When I do such tests it is my goal to help identify the root causes of problems that users are experiencing because the same could happen to me any time too and I would depend on the help of other pilots to get it solved.
Here we have a case where the root cause was perceived to be the firmware update, but some doubts must be allowed too. If there was a general issue, this forum would be flooded by relating reports and complaints. This is clearly not the case. Thus what remains is to try isolating the possible cause to the extent possible and identify which particular user settings or other factors might lead to it. If we are lucky it can be found quickly, but it also can be a long and painful search.

From past experience, I would say you would have to perform same tests you performed on a minimum of 100 Mavic Airs that were selected at random, covering first manufacturing date to April 2018, and selection would need to include multiple countries.
Those tests would also need to be repeated at different times of day, and in different locations.  Along with repeating those tests by including variables such as different pilot accounts, drone settings, and smartdevices being used.

It could be there is a common thread, other than firmware .400 update, that is causing various Mavic Air problems being reported here.   Below are a few of those various problems that I remember reading about.

Issue being hashed out involving Motor Current Error after May update.  Some appear to be real, while others appear to be false warning?
Active Tracking turns into Active Attacking after .400 firmware update.
Couple of cases where after updating to .400, Mavic Airs are being replaced by DJI.  Wondering if MAs were bricked by firmware update?
Two cases where updating to .400 resulted in lag problems with Live view that were not present prior to update.
Several cases involving sudden drop in battery power to 0%.  Which appear to be false warnings.
Several cases where after updating to .400, Mavic Airs have required re-calibrating or update fails and requires repeating update and re-calibrating.


Even though I don't own a Mavic Air, I have been following Mavic Air problems, guessing there is some commonality between firmware for Mavic Air and Mafic Pro line.  And what appears to be a firmware problem with Mavic Pro a couple of people (besides myself) have experienced that cropped up after going .300 on Mavic Pro / RC.

I discovered something else mate.
When I refreshed the FW before experiencing the glitch on Saturday I used version 1.2.3 on my MacBook... Not knowing that a new version 1.2.4 was released in mid May for IOS... I've just uninstalled and reinstalled the latest version of Assistant 2 now.
I did mention that I only refreshed the FW using only the GO4 app via my iPhone yesterday and the glitches disappeared. Perhaps refreshing the FW on the older version of Assistant 2 may be a root cause for some.  

A CW Posted at 2018-5-29 04:29
I discovered something else mate.
When I refreshed the FW before experiencing the glitch on Saturday I used version 1.2.3 on my MacBook... Not knowing that a new version 1.2.4 was released in mid May for IOS... I've just uninstalled and reinstalled the latest version of Assistant 2 now.
I did mention that I only refreshed the FW using only the GO4 app via my iPhone yesterday and the glitches disappeared. Perhaps refreshing the FW on the older version of Assistant 2 may be a root cause for some.

Can you please see if 1.2.4 version of Assistant-2 will access and download to your laptop FlightLogs and BlackBox data?

Both 1.2.4 and 1.2.3 on my MacBook will show firmware on Mavic Pro P, and I know on MacBook Pro running version 1.2.3 will update or revert Mavic Pro P firmware or perform calibrations and simulator works.   But neither will show files on Mavic Pro P.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-5-29 04:45
Can you please see if 1.2.4 version of Assistant-2 will access and download to your laptop FlightLogs and BlackBox data?

Both 1.2.4 and 1.2.3 on my MacBook will show firmware on Mavic Pro P, and I know on MacBook Pro running version 1.2.3 will update or revert Mavic Pro P firmware or perform calibrations and simulator works.   But neither will show files on Mavic Pro P.

Yep, all is fine on my MacBook Air - even calibrated the VPS/OA too. Though this was for my Mavic Air and not the Pro (sold that on the weekend).

A CW Posted at 2018-5-29 05:05
Yep, all is fine on my MacBook Air - even calibrated the VPS/OA too. Though this was for my Mavic Air and not the Pro (sold that on the weekend).

Thanks!
In my case, can't figure out why all other features of Assistant-2 work; except for accessing FlightLog data and BlackBox data.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-5-29 05:08
Thanks!
In my case, can't figure out why all other features of Assistant-2 work; except for accessing FlightLog data and BlackBox data.

Very strange. Try reinstalling v1.2.4

A CW Posted at 2018-5-29 05:28
Very strange. Try reinstalling v1.2.4

I have not tried a re-install on MacBook Air being, Assistant-2 was not already on it.  Thus a first time install.

On MacBook Pro, I installed Assistant-2 v1.2.4, over previous version of Assistant 2.
When that resulted in same problem with no FlightLogs or Blackbox data,  I deleted Assistant-2, and Re-installed Assistant-2 v1.2.4.  Rebooted MacBook Pro, still had same problem.

Been doing some more researching and reading.  Some other Mavic Pro owners have run into same problem I am seeing, and believe it is result of firmware update to Mavic Pro that results in Flight Logs and Blackbox data not being written for new flights or no Logs or data is shown at all when using Assistant-2.

Might have made better progress on this problem if it weren't for getting side-tracked with two other vendors products causing problems.  One problem left of those two is a pretty obvious programmer mistake, in that crash log shows same error that is tied back to improper coding practice.  Of course vendor can't reproduce error.  Which goes back to, it ain't just DJI that has problems and customers with problems.


Thanks again for checking on access of Flight Log and Blackbox data.  

Bill B Posted at 2018-5-28 16:57
Wachtberger, I have to admit, since I did the update to .400  my Mavic Air has been very reliable. My problems prior to that were bad. Disconnects all the time totally unreliable. I know there are some  here on this forum who are experiencing problems since the update and I can speak from experience, it is a royal pain when things are not working right and you're afraid to fly due to them.  I concur with your findings here as my MA is pretty spot on. I had one flight a week or so ago, when I noticed the yaw problem at take off, it slowly yawed to the right with no stick input from me, but I only had 11 Sats locked at the time of lift off. I landed right away and sat there powered up until I had 14 Sats locked, when I took off again it was locked in, no yaw. Thanks for the video.

You are welcome! :-)

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-5-29 08:16
I have not tried a re-install on MacBook Air being, Assistant-2 was not already on it.  Thus a first time install.

On MacBook Pro, I installed Assistant-2 v1.2.4, over previous version of Assistant 2.

I remember suffering major app crashes on my MPP when I first got it - it what caused by my iPhone FW not being up-to-date and not working with the latest version of GO4 at that time. We forget that checking the FW and updates on our phones and computers is as important as on the drone, remote, batteries and apps. These recent glitches may be caused by bad FW on the RC - which can be downgraded or refreshing the FW on the previous Assistant 2 version - which seemed to be my case this time round. Sometimes Apple are to blame and not DJI. It can be very frustrating at times. Adding NFZ databases and quizzes to the mix these days too and countless different forms of calibrations just to take off in a straight line. I know it's all part of the hobby but there are times when I simply want to take a photo without all of the ..... that goes with it

Neal McGuire Posted at 2018-5-28 20:01
I would like to thank Wachtberger for starting this off. I agree that we need a systematic approach to resolving this issue. And right now we need more tests before we can write off the firmware as not being the cause of the problem. Three flights is really not sufficient to resolve if this is a firmware issue.

My suggests (for what they are worth)

I can do more tests but am not sure that they would have any other results. I had flights without any issues after the firmware update before this test, and also yesterday I had flights without issues. It is quite obvious, that my MA is not affected. Should anything happen in my next flights, I shall definitely report it here.
It would be more promising in my opinion, if those who experience problems run step by step tests by refreshing firmware, do a test flight, calibrate IMU, do a test flight and so on until they achieve a positive result. This would likely result in tracking the problem down.

Heavenone Posted at 2018-5-28 23:25
#38
in GERMAN forums...there are hundreds of replies to AIR problems after updating and over 10 000 followers...
my last AIR was absolutely perfect

I would suggest you open a support case with DJI and let them analyse your blackbox data.

A CW Posted at 2018-5-29 04:29
I discovered something else mate.
When I refreshed the FW before experiencing the glitch on Saturday I used version 1.2.3 on my MacBook... Not knowing that a new version 1.2.4 was released in mid May for IOS... I've just uninstalled and reinstalled the latest version of Assistant 2 now.
I did mention that I only refreshed the FW using only the GO4 app via my iPhone yesterday and the glitches disappeared. Perhaps refreshing the FW on the older version of Assistant 2 may be a root cause for some.

Then you had overlooked my post on the release of the new version... ;-)

A CW Posted at 2018-5-29 08:29
I remember suffering major app crashes on my MPP when I first got it - it what caused by my iPhone FW not being up-to-date and not working with the latest version of GO4 at that time. We forget that checking the FW and updates on our phones and computers is as important as on the drone, remote, batteries and apps. These recent glitches may be caused by bad FW on the RC - which can be downgraded or refreshing the FW on the previous Assistant 2 version - which seemed to be my case this time round. Sometimes Apple are to blame and not DJI. It can be very frustrating at times. Adding NFZ databases and quizzes to the mix these days too and countless different forms of calibrations just to take off in a straight line. I know it's all part of the hobby but there are times when I simply want to take a photo without all of the ..... that goes with it

I know it's all part of the hobby but there are times when I simply want to take a photo without all of the ..... that goes with it  


I get where you are coming from.  Last thing people who do Highly Technical work for a living want to do is, do more Technical work while trying to relax at what is supposed to be a fun sport or hobby.  I know it can be incredibly frustrating to non Technical people too, who simply want to fly and take pictures to get away from their own work day events.

Any chance somebody can put up a video showing the problem, it might help, it also might help to see how big or small this problem is, so far it seems it’s pretty minute.

Wachtberger Posted at 2018-5-29 08:41
Then you had overlooked my post on the release of the new version... ;-)

It was when I was in Cyprus. Take a holiday and the world changes when you're away It's definitely fixed now. Just took off in my house (prop guards on) no GPS lock of course - took off manually and used auto - no yaw glitch each time using just OPTI mode too right up to the ceiling (don't panic, I learn't to fly in ATTI mode on my P3P). It's fixed for sure.

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-5-29 08:53
I know it's all part of the hobby but there are times when I simply want to take a photo without all of the ..... that goes with it  

Very true and it's very relaxing when it works, which is usually most of the time even for non technical people like myself.

A CW Posted at 2018-5-29 10:33
It was when I was in Cyprus. Take a holiday and the world changes when you're away  It's definitely fixed now. Just took off in my house (prop guards on) no GPS lock of course - took off manually and used auto - no yaw glitch each time using just OPTI mode too right up to the ceiling (don't panic, I learn't to fly in ATTI mode on my P3P). It's fixed for sure.

Cyprus is a wonderful place to be and you are fully excused for following other activities there ;-) But I am very happy to hear that your problem is solved!

Wachtberger Posted at 2018-5-29 11:28
Cyprus is a wonderful place to be and you are fully excused for following other activities there ;-) But I am very happy to hear that your problem is solved!

Stunning place mate - a week in Paphos with my wife and 17 month old son. No drones as just wanted some quality time with my immediate family.
Still, done 8 flights on the MA since I've been back, sorted out a minor bug and sold my MPP Now I can just get back to enjoying what I bought this thing to do - take photos and video

3-D Posted at 2018-5-28 12:41
... And this is why doing a factory reset and then refresh the firmware could make a difference in some.  If DJI starts with a greenfield Mavic Air, it could not take into consideration the affect of upgrading the code.
Any customizations or settings that were changed, could affect how the fimrware is applied.

Agree, and as Wachtberger was good enough to take the time to test and report, I thought I'd add another voice to this.

I've had no issues with v...400 - my Air is perfectly stable. But going back to your comment 3-D, there are similar reports after firmware updates to Phantoms. Remember that the method of installation is identical. I believe its an issue with the process - specifically how the modules are unpacked after .bin file download for installation.

I'll throw another side fact into the mix - when the unsanctioned Dumbled0r software came out, it was discovered that you needed to flash the firmware twice for all modules to be properly installed. So ever since then, for each update for my Mavic or Phantom, I've done the update, rebooted, reset to factory defaults (as defaults may be different between firmware versions), rebooted, and refreshed the firmware  (i.e. updated twice). I'll then do a VPS calibration and then Gimbal calibration.

I haven't had an issue after a firmware update since I started doing the above.

Punchbuggy Posted at 2018-5-29 14:13
Agree, and as Wachtberger was good enough to take the time to test and report, I thought I'd add another voice to this.

I've had no issues with v...400 - my Air is perfectly stable. But going back to your comment 3-D, there are similar reports after firmware updates to Phantoms. Remember that the method of installation is identical. I believe its an issue with the process - specifically how the modules are unpacked after .bin file download for installation.

I believe its an issue with the process - specifically how the modules are unpacked after .bin file download for installation.  


You bring up a possiblity of need of some piece of software having already been installed prior to upgrade.  Which at some point will itself install critical missing piece of software.
Second time is the Charm?

Punchbuggy Posted at 2018-5-29 14:13
Agree, and as Wachtberger was good enough to take the time to test and report, I thought I'd add another voice to this.

I've had no issues with v...400 - my Air is perfectly stable. But going back to your comment 3-D, there are similar reports after firmware updates to Phantoms. Remember that the method of installation is identical. I believe its an issue with the process - specifically how the modules are unpacked after .bin file download for installation.

What you wrote makes sense.
I'm going to take that test.
I'll come back to say how it was.



UPDATE:
Unfortunately, it did not work.
Even redoing all procedures twice (including recalibration), the preview continues with a huge delay (lag).
I already wrote in another post. I think it is a problem of image processing X ambient lighting.
The less light, the more delay (even when in AUTO mode)

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-5-29 14:54
I believe its an issue with the process - specifically how the modules are unpacked after .bin file download for installation.  

Hi. Just to clarify.
I recall the conversations when Dumbled0r was first released (prior to when the mods started to remove references). It started out that some people using the tool to downgrade firmware on their P4 would report that VPS appeared to have stopped working afterwards (I think there was even a message - VPS disabled). Seemed that a second refresh resolved the issue for all experiencing it. The  first flash may have introduced an incompatibility.

If you've ever seen the file unpacked, it comprises of numerous controller modules each with version numbering. It's logical to do that, as certain modules would be common between models (e.g. for VPS on the P4, P4A and P4P). My suspicion is that part of the installation process compares versions and perhaps doesn't update if not necessary - that's evidenced by the fact that battery firmware is not applied to the battery if it's already at that level. At least, that's what happens for the P4 series.

So, could it be possible that a module has not been installed due to a version mis-read, leaving the original (possibly incompatible) module still installed on completion of the update process? A second or third refresh may be required to get it to check again and hopefully apply correctly.  

I hope that makes sense, and sure - this is pure conjecture. I'd love to confirm how the update process works in detail. The logs give a hint, but...

TZero Posted at 2018-5-29 15:16
What you wrote makes sense.
I'm going to take that test.
I'll come back to say how it was.

Hi.  I don't understand what you're referring to with "the preview continues with a huge delay".
And I assume the image processing x ambient lighting comment, related on the VPS sensor's ability to operate effectively?
Sorry - I may just be a little slow today...