Please select Into the mobile phone version | Continue to access the computer ver.
Fly Aways?
580 22 2018-6-1
Uploading and Loding Picture ...(0/1)
o(^-^)o
Ken Storm
First Officer
Flight distance : 81266 ft
United Kingdom
Online

Just started fly my Air and naturally I keep reading the forum and oft see issues with fly aways.

Whatever the cause, I would have thought it possible to Geo-Fence the drone, setting a max distance from home before it stops and either returns of hovers.
Assuming of course your GPS had a solid fix at home and still has at the fence.

2018-6-1
Use props
Folkestone
Captain
Flight distance : 843199 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

Aren't most of them caused by GPS or compass errors which would break that system?

It's a nice idea and I am no expert on how these things work but I'd love the security that a system like this would offer.
2018-6-1
Use props
HereForTheBeer
Captain
Flight distance : 5381368 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

Fly always usually occur because of a system failure or lack of system readiness. So I’m not sure a geo-fence is best idea.. you already can set a max flight distance in settings, however this won’t prevent a fly away.. as fly always occur when the normal system in place fail..

Usually during a fly away event the drone switches to failsafe ATTI mode. And ATTI mode is very difficult to control if you are not expecting it or even impossible to fly if the drone is completely confused and has no references (all systems have high bias and thus bad zeroing)


The best bet if your drone failsafes into ATTi mode is to lower your drone under you get VPS/Opti mode (down firing vision positioning system) because at that point the drone will have some references and will be far more controllable.   VPS/Opti mode range is around 31 feet from the ground, but sometimes it can need to be a bit closer.  at that point you can safely auto land the drone or manually fly it back at that height or wait for errors to clear up (sometimes they will on their own)  

Alternatively if you are in fail-safe atti mode and over a field pulling the drone down into the ground or pressing land button is an option.. this won’t stop you from crashing or drifting off while it’s decenting, but atleast gets the drone out of the air and stops it from flying off forever until battery is low or until it crashes miles away with no signal.  
2018-6-1
Use props
BossBob
lvl.2
Flight distance : 2048022 ft
United Kingdom
Offline

HereForTheBeer Posted at 2018-6-1 02:50
Fly always usually occur because of a system failure or lack of system readiness. So I’m not sure a geo-fence is best idea.. you already can set a max flight distance in settings, however this won’t prevent a fly away.. as fly always occur when the normal system in place fail..

Usually during a fly away event the drone switches to failsafe ATTI mode. And ATTI mode is very difficult to control if you are not expecting it or even impossible to fly if the drone is completely confused and has no references (all systems have high bias and thus bad zeroing)

Another option you might try is to yaw the aircraft through 360 degrees a couple of times. This is to give the compasses, GPSand IMU a chance to synchronise and so return to GPS flight. Examination of logs has shown that often a drone that has dropped into ATTI mode still has good GPS lock, but the 2 compass directions and GPS direction have become unsynchronised and the IMU is confused.
2018-6-1
Use props
HereForTheBeer
Captain
Flight distance : 5381368 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

BossBob Posted at 2018-6-1 03:03
Another option you might try is to yaw the aircraft through 360 degrees a couple of times. This is to give the compasses, GPSand IMU a chance to synchronise and so return to GPS flight. Examination of logs has shown that often a drone that has dropped into ATTI mode still has good GPS lock, but the 2 compass directions and GPS direction have become unsynchronised and the IMU is confused.

Having experienced a Toilet bowl effect (TBE) before on a dji Spark, I can tell you that sometimes even that isn’t completely possible it just does it’s own damn thing.  And only solution is to crash it or get it grounded ASAP once it losses its sh..t.   

I haven’t experienced TBE on my Mavic Pro yet (thank god) but having read a lot of logs and posts from people about mavics and phantoms and spark... I wouldn’t waste my time spinning the drone in the air hoping it will figure things out.. I would try to get the thing to the ground ASAP and safely.   Or get get it in range of VPS and hope it will recover because if the VPS works it will stabilize itself.  
2018-6-1
Use props
hallmark007
Captain
Flight distance : 7732080 ft
  • >>>
Sweden
Offline

I would ignore what here for the beer has said regarding the cause of fly aways , the fact is simply that nearly all fly aways will contain some kind of pilot error (fact) . It is very unusual to lose gps in these aircraft and cases are very rare,
Regarding geo fencing , to curb distance its not in these drones, however you can set max flight distance and max flight altitude if you feel you want to fly within certain parametres.
2018-6-1
Use props
HereForTheBeer
Captain
Flight distance : 5381368 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-6-1 04:54
I would ignore what here for the beer has said regarding the cause of fly aways , the fact is simply that nearly all fly aways will contain some kind of pilot error (fact) . It is very unusual to lose gps in these aircraft and cases are very rare,
Regarding geo fencing , to curb distance its not in these drones, however you can set max flight distance and max flight altitude if you feel you want to fly within certain parametres.

I think you completely missed the entire context.

Most of the time fly always occur because of system failures. Flipping the drone into Atti mode.  

Please reference links to users who didn’t have some system failures in their logs and a Atti mode trigger before a fly away event..


No one has shifted blame here from or to the pilot in what I said, reguardless of who’s fault it is, fly aways never seem to occur if all the systems are online and functioning properly (aka not in failsafe atti mode).

Maybe you never experienced a drone completely sh..t the bed before, but I have on my spark I used to own on multiple occasions and I can tell you, it isn’t always pilot error, sometimes it is literally and completely uncontrollable.. even if it responds to stick inputs it maybe inverted controls or completely offset or entirely unresponsive.
And I learned best bet is to get the drones to lock on to VPS (downfiring cameras) that will re-stabilize the drone in most cases.. from there, land it is best bet, by far best bet..


And yes I have built my own racer drone and the Atti mode on that is vastly
More controlable than the TBE that seems to happen to a lot of people here and happened to myself on a few occasions with my old sparky.  

2018-6-1
Use props
hallmark007
Captain
Flight distance : 7732080 ft
  • >>>
Sweden
Offline

HereForTheBeer Posted at 2018-6-1 05:19
I think you completely missed the entire context.

Most of the time fly always occur because of system failures. Flipping the drone into Atti mode.  

System failures caused by bad pre planning , flying in wrong envoirments causing problems for the system, as i said before almost all fly aways are caused by pilot error, have i had problems before with system Yes , but i am well aware that i could have averted problem with correct attention to preflight.

Remember you are the one guy around here who says its ok to just take your drone straight up while not waiting for enough sat lock.
2018-6-1
Use props
HereForTheBeer
Captain
Flight distance : 5381368 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-6-1 05:33
System failures caused by bad pre planning , flying in wrong envoirments causing problems for the system, as i said before almost all fly aways are caused by pilot error, have i had problems before with system Yes , but i am well aware that i could have averted problem with correct attention to preflight.

Remember you are the one guy around here who says its ok to just take your drone straight up while not waiting for enough sat lock.

Not always bad pre-planning.  

Hence why I have taken off with my Mavic Pro before a lock occurred and never experienced a fly away.. and anyone can do that if they chose to without much risk aince for the most part they keep you within Opti limits (I believe 24 feet was what I saw last time I did it)  and it is perfectly controllable.. but I don’t. Recommend people doing it, but if they do it should be ok, it will eventually get a sat connection and be fine..  
2018-6-1
Use props
hallmark007
Captain
Flight distance : 7732080 ft
  • >>>
Sweden
Offline

HereForTheBeer Posted at 2018-6-1 05:42
Not always bad pre-planning.  

Hence why I have taken off with my Mavic Pro before a lock occurred and never experienced a fly away.. and anyone can do that if they chose to without much risk aince for the most part they keep you within Opti limits (I believe 24 feet was what I saw last time I did it)  and it is perfectly controllable.. but I don’t. Recommend people doing it, but if they do it should be ok, it will eventually get a sat connection and be fine..

That’s easy if you take off with weak gps your failsafe will only let you fly to max altitude 16 ft, but if you try take off with weak gps then you run the risk of going to ATTI Mode and if crash occurs then stupid pilot error, spells stupid pilot any day of the week.
Or wait less than I minute get proper lock less risk of problems Smart Pilot .
2018-6-1
Use props
HereForTheBeer
Captain
Flight distance : 5381368 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-6-1 05:51
That’s easy if you take off with weak gps your failsafe will only let you fly to max altitude 16 ft, but if you try take off with weak gps then you run the risk of going to ATTI Mode and if crash occurs then stupid pilot error, spells stupid pilot any day of the week.
Or wait less than I minute get proper lock less risk of problems Smart Pilot .

Not every location has good Sat coverage, FYI.  I live in the mountains  if you fly around cliff sides and pocket valleys you commonly see 4-6 sat connections because you are shielded by the rocks.  

Also indoor flying to consider, not that I have done too much of that, but there is that too.

I’m not going to disagree that flying without solid sat connection increases the risk, it defiantly does, good to have more data for the aircraft to know what it’s doing.  But Dji wasn’t stupid about this, and the built the drone to be stable without GPS using Atti+VPS and height limitations..
2018-6-1
Use props
tokenbrit
First Officer
Flight distance : 384094 ft
Canada
Offline

I agree completely with hallmark that almost all fly always are avoidable. The DJI product is very  reliable and the quality of the software is excellent - there is much expertise and experience built into the platform, but it takes time to master it.

The return to home functionality is the failsafe  feature , you never want to rely on it, but make sure you read up on RTH so it it is set up correctly for when you need it.   Most importantly, prior to take off, check you have set the return height to be high enough to clear any obstacles and it is set to return to you.  Once you power up the drone, wait to hear confirmation that the home point has been set.  Test RTHin safe surroundings  many times, to be sure you know how it works - learn to know how to react when you lose video signal or the drone becomes unresponsive.   If you turn off the transmitter completely, provided  you have enough power, you should get the drone back.

Power is the other consideration. While the software will provide the power levels of the battery and will warn when the battery is low -be mindful it cannot forecast wind direction and strength at varying altitudes.   Don’t be caught miles downwind with a low battery warning!
2018-6-1
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

HereForTheBeer Posted at 2018-6-1 04:15
Having experienced a Toilet bowl effect (TBE) before on a dji Spark, I can tell you that sometimes even that isn’t completely possible it just does it’s own damn thing.  And only solution is to crash it or get it grounded ASAP once it losses its sh..t.   

I haven’t experienced TBE on my Mavic Pro yet (thank god) but having read a lot of logs and posts from people about mavics and phantoms and spark... I wouldn’t waste my time spinning the drone in the air hoping it will figure things out.. I would try to get the thing to the ground ASAP and safely.   Or get get it in range of VPS and hope it will recover because if the VPS works it will stabilize itself.

And only solution is to crash it or get it grounded ASAP once it losses its sh..t.

Why you need to carry a shotgun.  If drone has got to go down, might as well have some fun doing it!

2018-6-1
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

Isn't the ability to set Maximum Flight Distance, Geofencing by radius.  Granted you can't make a true fence with one side loped off or triangle shape.

But as pointed out, if NAV system (GPS / Compasses / IMU) is hosed, it likely will flight right on past Maximum Flight Distance and Ignore RTH.
2018-6-1
Use props
HereForTheBeer
Captain
Flight distance : 5381368 ft
  • >>>
United States
Offline

tokenbrit Posted at 2018-6-1 06:25
I agree completely with hallmark that almost all fly always are avoidable. The DJI product is very  reliable and the quality of the software is excellent - there is much expertise and experience built into the platform, but it takes time to master it.

The return to home functionality is the failsafe  feature , you never want to rely on it, but make sure you read up on RTH so it it is set up correctly for when you need it.   Most importantly, prior to take off, check you have set the return height to be high enough to clear any obstacles and it is set to return to you.  Once you power up the drone, wait to hear confirmation that the home point has been set.  Test RTHin safe surroundings  many times, to be sure you know how it works - learn to know how to react when you lose video signal or the drone becomes unresponsive.   If you turn off the transmitter completely, provided  you have enough power, you should get the drone back.

I’m not discounting pilot error at all..  and I agree with the common sense thing that you mention.  

Dji isn’t stupid (usually atleast), but having experiance the a dji sparky hat sh..t the bed on multiple occasions, proper control is not always possible I have actually entered it where the controls where effectively useless, not unresponsive, just useless!  Like roll left/right was actually forward and backwards.. I don’t know why or how it occurs..

Having since flown actual hand built racer drone with real Atti mode (not assisted) I can look back on my experiences with my spark I had and I can without doubt tell you that it was uncontrollable beyond a pilot error..  few things that I picked up on I realized could have been my fault with just a very responsive drone but not all of it was that, for sure!

When and if you ever have a drone that just sh.ts the bed.. you will know it.  It’s not a normal atti mode either.  Have had my Mavic Pro go in atti mode a few times when flying sometimes sustained for a few minutes before regained its bearings(I don’t know why it Attied a few times over a field). and it remained very controlable, a drift here and there but mostly controlable, you can tell it’s in atti though because I put felt more “raw”.   A drone that sh.ts the bed on atti will suddenly change completely, and turns into a different animal entirely.. suicidal animal at that.  Forward may = dive bomb for example.. you know it when you encounter it... it isn’t controlable and feels like it wants to kill itself..
2018-6-1
Use props
hallmark007
Captain
Flight distance : 7732080 ft
  • >>>
Sweden
Offline

Again if you listen to here for the beer and hedge trimmer you most likely will not get your Aircraft off the ground, and I’m sure it won’t encourage other newbies either.

Reality is GPS in these drones is exceptionally good and almost never fails, if you know your envoirment and precheck both your aircraft look out for warning signs have a plan if something goes wrong where it might be suitable and safe to land, then you shouldn’t have any problems, the vast majority of users are flying quite happy.
You must take what you read around here with a pinch of salt, there are many who are happy to get on the bandwagon and try to create hysteria blame everything for their problems except themselves.
You bought your aircraft to go fly and enjoy, don’t be discouraged by the naysayers around here.
Fly safe..
2018-6-1
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-6-1 08:00
Again if you listen to here for the beer and hedge trimmer you most likely will not get your Aircraft off the ground, and I’m sure it won’t encourage other newbies either.

Reality is GPS in these drones is exceptionally good and almost never fails, if you know your envoirment and precheck both your aircraft look out for warning signs have a plan if something goes wrong where it might be suitable and safe to land, then you shouldn’t have any problems, the vast majority of users are flying quite happy.



hallmark007-Accusing.jpg


Tell us hallmark007, Why is it wrong for others to Troll you, but you deem it okay to Troll others?

Are you above your own calls, you make upon others?

Do see yourself as sole expert on all things quadcopter, helicopter, rc planes, drones?

Do you ever have feelings of godhood?


When you view this webpage do you invision hallmark007's Forum at top?



2018-6-1
Use props
hallmark007
Captain
Flight distance : 7732080 ft
  • >>>
Sweden
Offline


The fact that you continue to screenshot my posts and repost shows who the real troll is around here, scaremongering newbies is about your level

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
2018-6-1
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-6-1 12:07
The fact that you continue to screenshot my posts and repost shows who the real troll is around here, scaremongering newbies is about your level

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

Your attempt to once again distract from your own Hubris is not going to work.

hallmark007-Accusing.jpg

Tell us hallmark007, Why is it wrong for others to Troll you, but you deem it okay to Troll others?
  Are you above your own calls, you make upon others?
Do see yourself as sole expert on all things quadcopter, helicopter, rc planes, drones?
Do you ever have feelings of godhood?
When you view this webpage do you invision hallmark007's Forum at top?




2018-6-1
Use props
hallmark007
Captain
Flight distance : 7732080 ft
  • >>>
Sweden
Offline

HedgeTrimmer Posted at 2018-6-1 12:18
Your attempt to once again distract from your own Hubris is not going to work.

[view_image]

Again another thread you try to bring down to your own level. This is not about you, but if you persist in trying to try to scare particularly newbies from flying , go right ahead.

I no longer need to be involved in your clap trap. Good day..
2018-6-1
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-6-1 12:07
The fact that you continue to screenshot my posts and repost shows who the real troll is around here, scaremongering newbies is about your level

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

hallmark007 - “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Now that you mention it, I do feel dragged down and beaten by your ''experience'' (cough, cough, cough).

2018-6-1
Use props
HedgeTrimmer
Captain
United States
Offline

hallmark007 Posted at 2018-6-1 12:28
Again another thread you try to bring down to your own level. This is not about you, but if you persist in trying to try to scare particularly newbies from flying , go right ahead.

I no longer need to be involved in your clap trap. Good day..

hallmark007 - Again another thread you try to bring down to your own level.

"Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty" ~ hallmark007 2018/06/01



2018-6-1
Use props
ISAWHIM
lvl.1
Flight distance : 167 ft
Offline

These devices are young, we are the guinea-pigs... There are many things that are not part of the system, which should be in these systems, like... Redundancy and Absolution.

Redundant accelerometers (Which do NOT need GPS to sustain orientation. Since that seems to be a common issue, if only temporarily, due to erratic "data".)
Redundant GPS sensors (In the obvious event of chip failure, which seems to be an issue.)
Redundant or generic "failsafe" sensors. (Cheap, low-grade, solid design failsafes that assist when all else fails.)

Absolution = 100% tested electronics, which are known to have low failure rates and can survive 4x the expected "normal issues", before actual failure. (Since safety is the issue here and what constitutes "instructed flying", is NOT flying manually, using the automatic controls and sensors, which are failing at times, as well as the manual controls.)

I know that they do put a LOT of effort into these things. I have seen the production and testing. However, I also see the end results, which only impresses me as a novelty. My electric unicycle has redundant circuits and recovery circuits, with 100% pre-tested and calibrated hardware. Why? Because it transports a human in traffic, at speeds of 25 MPH. I have had one failure, due to overheating on a hot day, in the three years (8,500 miles) that I have driven it. It is made in China and cost less than these things, and is built with more hardware and materials.

But even the best things are prone to failure, at no-ones fault. You don't hear about the number of "non-failures", because they are enjoying the devices without issue. Just because you don't have that issue, or have not seen it, doesn't translate into it NOT existing. Save your $0.02 so the actual technicians can diagnose the issue, and then thank these people reporting the issues, so that the issues hopefully contribute to the successful future flights of your own devices, or future versions.
2018-6-1
Use props
Advanced
You need to log in before you can reply Login | Register now

Credit Rules