Hey guys,

After seeing a lot of videos and posts about not being able to control the drone in ATTI mode, I have a question. From my understanding, the drone should act like any other cheapo drone without GPS when in ATTI mode and requires you to fly it manually. Is this the case? Or is something else at play here when the drone switches to ATTI mode that you're unable to control it. I've seen many videos of it start to drift and you simply cannot fight it at all.

I recently purchased a spark and have yet to experience ATTI mode, and by the sounds of it, I don't want too...

As you said - same as any cheapo drone without GPS. Spark in ATTI is no different.
If you have connection between RC and Spark, you can always control it (unless you have some catastrophic s/w of h/w failure).
Yes - it may drift with wind. And yes - it may take-off in one direction if its IMU has an issue and can't keep it level.
But it is exactly the same as with any other drone with no GPS.

The videos you saw where it starts to drift and you can't fight it at all could have been because:
- users panic and start to hit RTH button instead of moving their sticks - a lot of cases like that. RTH does not work in ATTI.
- users lost connection between RC and Spark and the video you saw is either from their phone cash or they did recover Spark afterwards.

In any case - there are no hidden miracles here. It works as any other drone. There are many urban legends around fly-away Spark because people just don't understand how the drone works and are completely lost when Spark drops from GPS to ATTI mode,

Normally, ATTI mode occurs if the connection between the remote and aircraft was interrupted due to interferences and aside from that if we're lacking in GPS signal, you might encounter this error message as well, I would recommend avoiding flying your aircraft in a hazardous environment, ensure that we're getting strong GPS signals and the firmware for your remote controller and the aircraft are up to date aside from that make sure that IMU and compass are well calibrated. Hope you'll have a great flight with your spark.

One more thought - you said "I recently purchased a spark and have yet to experience ATTI mode, and by the sounds of it, I don't want too...".

Well, sooner or later you will experience ATTI in Spark. Just be prepared to take control. Instead of hitting RTH (as most people do), calmly direct the dron towards yourself (using compass arrow in the lower left corner of DJI GO App, if you are too far away to see which direction Spark is facing) and fly back to you.

Also study this page and you will be a very happy Spark owner: New Spark Pilots - Info&Errors on ATTI / Compass / GPS Satellites

In case of questions or issues - ask - we are here to help.

Mirek6 Posted at 2018-6-12 11:59
One more thought - you said "I recently purchased a spark and have yet to experience ATTI mode, and by the sounds of it, I don't want too...".

Well, sooner or later you will experience ATTI in Spark. Just be prepared to take control. Instead of hitting RTH (as most people do), calmly direct the dron towards yourself (using compass arrow in the lower left corner of DJI GO App, if you are too far away to see which direction Spark is facing) and fly back to you.

Appreciate your great responses! Yeah I have lots of experience with cheapo Hubsan drones and have no problem flying it without assistive technologies like GPS. I just was worried when manual mode also doesn't work and your pretty much doomed to crash.

Great to hear it's suppose to work like any other drone. I've also been reading that you should only calibrate the IMU when it says so on the drone health screen or shows a warning.

CHEFFY Posted at 2018-6-12 12:06
Appreciate your great responses! Yeah I have lots of experience with cheapo Hubsan drones and have no problem flying it without assistive technologies like GPS. I just was worried when manual mode also doesn't work and your pretty much doomed to crash.

Great to hear it's suppose to work like any other drone. I've also been reading that you should only calibrate the IMU when it says so on the drone health screen or shows a warning.

Yes. Good advice.

I am bit more cautious and calibrate my IMU every several months.
Also, when I start flying I always do some pre-flight checks which include checking if everything is normal on DJI GO screen, hovering Spark in front of me, turning it around in the air to see if it remains level. Checking how it responds to my stick movements up, down, sideways, front back. Takes half a minute and shows if equipment works correctly. Again - check the page I referenced in my previous post in this thread.

Also remember to calibrate compass if you are traveling long distances - several hundred kilometres.

Many happy flights with your Spark!

It always helps to learn to fly with a cheap drone.
That way you will know how to fly without GPS guidance.
Take from someone that started with the SYMA X5C 3 years ago.

can you fly in ATTI mode with a mobile device or only with the RC?

Take from someone that started with the SYMA X5C 3 years ago

  yeah I started with a quadrone …$40 LOL

Spark has no full Manual Control only GPS and Atti
the best way to be ready is buy cheap drones perhaps the fast ones or small one such as the hubsan nano i have

and count the atti as ur car losing traction and drifting yea u drive normally and dont speed maybe
but u may lose traction at one day and have to be calm and stable the car this is the same for the drone tho its rare if u do preflight checks or it may not happen

Frunobulax Posted at 12-27 20:17
can you fly in ATTI mode with a mobile device or only with the RC?

   yeah I started with a quadrone …$40 LOL

Hi Frunobulax,

Yes that is possible. You'll need to use the "normal" mode to convert to ATTI mode.
You'll need to change parameter "fswitch_selection_2" to "3" (that's ATTI).
Also you'll need to change "g_control_control_default_power_up_control_mode" to "3".

Be careful: you are now flying ATTI mode all the time, without the possibility to switch back to a safe mode!

Cheers,
Wolferl

Mirek6 Posted at 6-12 11:59
One more thought - you said "I recently purchased a spark and have yet to experience ATTI mode, and by the sounds of it, I don't want too...".

Well, sooner or later you will experience ATTI in Spark. Just be prepared to take control. Instead of hitting RTH (as most people do), calmly direct the dron towards yourself (using compass arrow in the lower left corner of DJI GO App, if you are too far away to see which direction Spark is facing) and fly back to you.

If you have no gps, how can you use the map to orient yourself?

Mirek6 Posted at 6-12 11:59
One more thought - you said "I recently purchased a spark and have yet to experience ATTI mode, and by the sounds of it, I don't want too...".

Well, sooner or later you will experience ATTI in Spark. Just be prepared to take control. Instead of hitting RTH (as most people do), calmly direct the dron towards yourself (using compass arrow in the lower left corner of DJI GO App, if you are too far away to see which direction Spark is facing) and fly back to you.

If you have no gps, how can you use the map to orient yourself?

stuka75 Posted at 12-28 07:22
If you have no gps, how can you use the map to orient yourself?

I was thinking the same thing

pmshop Posted at 6-12 16:50
It always helps to learn to fly with a cheap drone.
That way you will know how to fly without GPS guidance.
Take from someone that started with the SYMA X5C 3 years ago.

I started with the X5SW (practically the same thing, but with FPV)

DJI Tony Posted at 6-12 11:55
Normally, ATTI mode occurs if the connection between the remote and aircraft was interrupted due to interferences and aside from that if we're lacking in GPS signal, you might encounter this error message as well, I would recommend avoiding flying your aircraft in a hazardous environment, ensure that we're getting strong GPS signals and the firmware for your remote controller and the aircraft are up to date aside from that make sure that IMU and compass are well calibrated. Hope you'll have a great flight with your spark.

Huh? you're saying that ATTI mode occurs if the Spark is disconnected from the RC? I think that's not right. Mine disconnected from the RC and from the phone and initiated a return home, it did not switch to ATTI at all. I saw the black box and no ATTI mode.

stuka75 Posted at 12-28 07:22
If you have no gps, how can you use the map to orient yourself?

If you are in ATTI mode and still have connection to the remote, and phone, you will still see the orientation of the AC via the map I think. That way you can tell which way the spark is flying and you can control it if it is not in your line of sight. Also it probably help to make it fly backward when it's coming closer to you in ATTI mode so that it is easier to control, right is right and left is left, not the opposite as it is when facing you. That's a trick an expert drone pilot gave me meant for beginners. I guess it would be easier that way to control it and make it land.

stuka75 Posted at 12-28 07:22
If you have no gps, how can you use the map to orient yourself?

The map belongs to the phone and can reliably used to orient yourself (if the phone has enough satellites), but if the Spark has no GPS, you can't locate it on the map. Back to using the mark 1 eyeball to locate and orient the Spark. Out of sight over forrest or water? Damn!

Warriewoodlad Posted at 2018-12-31 13:58
The map belongs to the phone and can reliably used to orient yourself (if the phone has enough satellites), but if the Spark has no GPS, you can't locate it on the map. Back to using the mark 1 eyeball to locate and orient the Spark. Out of sight over forrest or water? Damn!

If it goes into ATTI, can you still see its orientation on the app? Can you still see which way it's pointing?

I believe that you can, but I haven't experienced it myself. If the Spark compass is still working, the heading of the arrow head should be correct. However this would be of little use since it would be uncertain where the Spark was coming from. Maybe, if you had a rough idea of where the Spark was (and the wind was light), you could use it to fly a reciprocal course in the hope of getting it close enough to see. However, I would be more comfortable using the camera view to fly back home via familiar landmarks etc.

As a new Spark owner (but an experienced RC aircraft pilot), I have not experienced loss of GPS while in flight yet, but expect I will be able to get the drone back home as long as I have a video feed and a sense of the visual landmarks (which I would). The Spark is quite small and it is super easy to lose sight of it even if direct line of sight is available, especially to my aging eyes. Now, if I were to lose GPS and video at the same time, and could not see the Spark anymore, then I expect things would get quite interesting.

There is a common misconception throughout this thread.

ATTI rarely means no GPS. As a matter of fact, Spark drops to ATTI mode during flight mainly due to disagreement between what IMU components show - compass, accelerometer, gyroscope, GPS.
Basically if Spark's calculated inflight position  (calculated from IMU components records) consistently does not match its physical position (from GPS alone) Spark will enter ATTI mode to avoid being unpilotable (google toilet bowl effect for more info). In ATTI your GPS may, and most likely will, work.

Since my original post in this thread I did experience ATTI few times for various reasons but none of them was due to GPS loss. In 100% of my cases I was successfully able to manually pilot Spark. I saw its exact GPS position and headings using my DJI Go app.

Of course, if ATTI is a result of GPS malfunction, you may have a problem if you do not have a visual contact with Spark and you do not know where it is. But I have yet to see a post on this forum to definitely prove that GPS got totally busted. Please note that there is a huge difference between no GPS and GPS signal which is insufficient to establish Home position. For Home position you need a very strong GPS signal because Home position, to be useful, must be extraordinary accurate (many orders of magnitude more accurate than your phone GPS position).

In summary - on a very, very rare occasion when you drop to ATTI but still have RC-Spark connection you will be able to manually direct your drone back to you using your instruments. That is, if you do not panic and know exactly how to interpret and use what DJI Go shows.

Mirek      
  

It is entirely dependant on WHY the Spark has gone into ATTI mode and the circumstances beforehand. Example; If you fly the drone inside a building which blocks the GPS signal it will fly in 'normal ATTI' mode, i.e. like a cheap drone with no assistance, responding to normal stick inputs and not attempting to do anything on its own when you don't make inputs (outside the laws of motion physics). If it goes into ATTI mode because it has had an error in the GPS/compass/IMU it may not and start putting its own inputs to try to correct itself.

This has happened to me on 2 occasions (out of 350+ flights). It had nothing to do with the input i was making/not making or wind drift. The worst time was inside a quarry (open on 3 sides) where i'd flow a hundred times before. I was in normal mode (restricted to 5mph) and getting into position for the video. Once in position it had the compass/IMU/GPS error and took off at top Sport mode speed, nose down (this was at around 6m in height and there was next to no wind). The map shows the Spark arrow to suddenly jump to about 200m from where it actually was and it then decided it had to get to that point at full speed, i was full stick back and it barely made a difference. Unfortunately for me there was a 40m high quarry wall in the way of where it was trying to get to at a height of 6m! Fortunately i was able to get it just high enough to clear the wall and then spent the next 5mins wrestling with it to eventually get it back into land. Had the RC/AC disconnected there's was no way of recovering.

If these faults weren't a genuine problem with the h/w or s/w DJI would never pay out on any replacements, which they more than often do.

In my opinion, the Atti mode is and was almost always a compass error on my Sparks.
And yes, the position, direction in the app is correctly shown, just the hold of a position by the still availble GPS data is "blown with the wind"

I also think, even in topics "Atti, why", the flight record always stated more as the needed sats and has "yaw error" - "speed error", "compass error", stuff like this, before falls to "Atti"With still reading all sats, like before.

As soon as the compass fails, the Spark (drones) IGNORE GPS data for auto flight functions!
That's why we HAVE to take over, why the bird feels like in Sport mode, on the controls: native flying!

Also this with "still has GPS in sight" is the root for my try to deal with Atti midair:

I leave it alone for some seconds!

Trying to control a bird, in Atti, a kind of a sport mode, but the sport mode (maneuvering/(auto) correction high wind input, ....) seems some time to be the reason for loosing the compass, is a bit contradict, methinks.
I have not had so many Attis, but even the one 1 click away with higher winds blowing, I decided just to ascend as high as possible and to wait a little time.

And after about 5-10 seconds, P-GPS was on, I switched off sport and flew it back.

CHEFFY Posted at 2018-6-12 12:06
Appreciate your great responses! Yeah I have lots of experience with cheapo Hubsan drones and have no problem flying it without assistive technologies like GPS. I just was worried when manual mode also doesn't work and your pretty much doomed to crash.

Great to hear it's suppose to work like any other drone. I've also been reading that you should only calibrate the IMU when it says so on the drone health screen or shows a warning.

Actually, as cheap drones go, Spark is pretty manageable in atti mode.

MKPSG12 Posted at 6-28 01:21
It is entirely dependant on WHY the Spark has gone into ATTI mode and the circumstances beforehand. Example; If you fly the drone inside a building which blocks the GPS signal it will fly in 'normal ATTI' mode, i.e. like a cheap drone with no assistance, responding to normal stick inputs and not attempting to do anything on its own when you don't make inputs (outside the laws of motion physics). If it goes into ATTI mode because it has had an error in the GPS/compass/IMU it may not and start putting its own inputs to try to correct itself.

This has happened to me on 2 occasions (out of 350+ flights). It had nothing to do with the input i was making/not making or wind drift. The worst time was inside a quarry (open on 3 sides) where i'd flow a hundred times before. I was in normal mode (restricted to 5mph) and getting into position for the video. Once in position it had the compass/IMU/GPS error and took off at top Sport mode speed, nose down (this was at around 6m in height and there was next to no wind). The map shows the Spark arrow to suddenly jump to about 200m from where it actually was and it then decided it had to get to that point at full speed, i was full stick back and it barely made a difference. Unfortunately for me there was a 40m high quarry wall in the way of where it was trying to get to at a height of 6m! Fortunately i was able to get it just high enough to clear the wall and then spent the next 5mins wrestling with it to eventually get it back into land. Had the RC/AC disconnected there's was no way of recovering.

I suspect that during your incident Spark was not in ATTI.

Its behaviour was synonymous with disagreements of its IMU signals of where it "thought" it was and were it really was.  It tried to correct the disagreement and took off.

Normally, in P-GPS mode, such corrections are done on a miniscale all the time while drone is flying. It takes constant measurements where it should be, compares to where it is and corrects. This is why it can sit in one spot without stick input and without being blown by the wind.

In ATTI it does not do any corrections - it just gives up and allows you and wind to take it anywhere.

You did not say if your logs shows ATTI while your drone takes off. If they do, you may have entered ATTI because h/w malfuctioned and then, because of this malfunction, Spark started to behave weirdly and not as if it were in ATTI.

Mirek

S-e-ven Posted at 6-28 05:47
In my opinion, the Atti mode is and was almost always a compass error on my Sparks.
And yes, the position, direction in the app is correctly shown, just the hold of a position by the still availble GPS data is "blown with the wind"

S-e-ven,

I fully agree. ATTI is caused mostly by errors which manifest themselves as compass, speed, yaw etc. It may happen for number of reasons but what it really means is that Spark can no longer auto-correct its course and starts ignoring IMU signals, which it normally uses for flying, thus letting pilot take full control.

GPS may, and most likely, would still work. Compass may, and most likely would, still work (albeit if this is compass issue it may give you wrong readings).

What I was trying to say in this post is that, in most cases, you, as a pilot, have full control and you still can see where the drone is and which direction it is heading even though it may not be in your VLOS. I believe you do agree with this.

Unless, of course, it is true h/w issue - then all bets are off. Spark can show ATTI and fly full speed to the neverland ignoring your stick. But than, it is not in ATTI, it is in disastreous error. This happens very rarely.

Mirek

There always seems to be a lot of chest puffing when it comes to threads about ATTI mode. People pipe in with comments about how you should be able to fly perfectly fine if your A/C goes into ATTI mode. While this is true to some extent, the A/C has often gone into ATTI while also having other issues that have already made it fly randomly. It doesn't seem to be simply, its in P-GPS, now it's in ATTI, no problem I'm in control let me just fly back. Firstly it can take a few seconds before you even realise, then it takes a few more seconds before you can orientate yourself and the A/C. Depending on where you are flying and the conditions, depends on how much chance you have to get it under control.

RJB1 Posted at 6-28 15:01
There always seems to be a lot of chest puffing when it comes to threads about ATTI mode. People pipe in with comments about how you should be able to fly perfectly fine if your A/C goes into ATTI mode. While this is true to some extent, the A/C has often gone into ATTI while also having other issues that have already made it fly randomly. It doesn't seem to be simply, its in P-GPS, now it's in ATTI, no problem I'm in control let me just fly back. Firstly it can take a few seconds before you even realise, then it takes a few more seconds before you can orientate yourself and the A/C. Depending on where you are flying and the conditions, depends on how much chance you have to get it under control.

Yes, of course. Incident in the quarry may have been of this nature. Spark systems error which may have shown as ATTI on dji go 4 display and in logs but in fact was a serious issue having nothing to do with ATTI.

In true ATTI you can pilot the drone. But if you can't and it shows ATTI it is just confused and in error condition.

I was responding to people earlier in this feed who seemed to believe that ATTI equals no GPS. That's simply not the case in most situations.

Mirek

If i'm understanding you correctly your definition of 'ATTI' mode is next to irrelevant to the Spark as you can't put it in ATTI mode optionally, (other than by flying it in a GPS blocking building large enough to get enough height to disengage OPTI mode, which i've never read a story about on here).

ATTI mode under 999/1000 circumstances described on here means there is a serious problem with the Spark and it is not in 'normal' ATTI mode.

Your first post (#2) is completely erroneous as far as i'm concerned. The Spark, in most circumstances, when displaying ATTI mode DOES NOT behave like a cheapo no-GPS drone, it is experiencing a serious malfunction which IS common to the platform. It likely won't respond to normal stick inputs and its normally luck rather than skill that brings it back safely. While it may not happen regularly to the SAME drone, across the product it is a repeated problem.

If you want to experience flying in ATTI mode, fly it indoors or under a covered roof (carport or inside a warehouse.  I flew mine in my garage to experiment and educate myself on flying without GPS.  Yes, this is different then flying outdoors as you don't get wind pushing your spark, but at least you can see the different behaviour you have in ATTI vs GPS flights.  my 2 cents

You need somewhere tall enough so that the OPTI mode isn't engaged too otherwise that will be assisting you. IIRC OPTI mode stops working above 8 metres so a normal building won't cut it.

"ATTI-mode with altitude hold" can be assigned to the RC's Sport button.
There are numerous posts about this..

I have had my spark since spring, 4 times it has gone into Atti mode and 3 if those times I was out in the open, no buildings, no trees close open and it says atti mode and takes off crashing twice. Is there something I can do to prevent this?

djiuser_BcWJ2dgzHrtj Posted at 1-6 01:29
I have had my spark since spring, 4 times it has gone into Atti mode and 3 if those times I was out in the open, no buildings, no trees close open and it says atti mode and takes off crashing twice. Is there something I can do to prevent this?

Have you been in Sport mode, before?

youtu.be/eZWsm78Er1E the best way to be prepared for ATTI freak out is to practice, see the video above to program your sport mode switch to become atti mode.

I was in tripod mode above the water, and lost GPS signal under a pier.  The drone was flying straight, but went to ATTI mode when it lost GPS, and took off at normal speed suddenly and without warning.  After hitting a concrete column, it went into the ocean, so yeah - be careful.

Wolferl Posted at 2018-12-28 01:20
Hi Frunobulax,

Yes that is possible. You'll need to use the "normal" mode to convert to ATTI mode.

thx man! I love you! I see you video about this! Is the best!
is it possible to use TRIPOD with ATTI mode? or... is it possible to use TRIPOD MODE with ATTI mode (together)?
or have I reduced the atti mode's aggressiveness so that the SPARK flies as similar to the tripod mode?

I just had the atti mode..
Watch and learn what happens
Any command you give by your rc is multiplied by 1000 )
I guess the atti mode happened because of starting the flight indoors, and not having the gps connected.
Luckily i had the prop guards on, and i survived the wall hit.
Landed safe, but it wasn’t easy.
I thought that i had lost the drone..
Also see what my tshirt says.. “panic in the sky” ))

https://vimeo.com/509169184

Mirek6 Posted at 2018-6-12 11:53
As you said - same as any cheapo drone without GPS. Spark in ATTI is no different.
If you have connection between RC and Spark, you can always control it (unless you have some catastrophic s/w of h/w failure).
Yes - it may drift with wind. And yes - it may take-off in one direction if its IMU has an issue and can't keep it level.

I've been flying / building drones for many years. Purchased a spark for fun and was shocked the first time it did this during a waypoints Litchi cruise. Mission aborted and spark started (quickly) drifting away. Was able to recover it but it was trying to escape. This has since happened to me 3 different times and I have very luckily not crashed it but it drifts away fast and tries to ignore my sticks. Fairly shocking. Yes. I think my neighborhood affects the compass oddly as it wants frequent calibrations. Someone without a lot of experience would have crashed my Spark several times in the few weeks I've owned it.

Obguy99 Posted at 1-29 15:04
I've been flying / building drones for many years. Purchased a spark for fun and was shocked the first time it did this during a waypoints Litchi cruise. Mission aborted and spark started (quickly) drifting away. Was able to recover it but it was trying to escape. This has since happened to me 3 different times and I have very luckily not crashed it but it drifts away fast and tries to ignore my sticks. Fairly shocking. Yes. I think my neighborhood affects the compass oddly as it wants frequent calibrations. Someone without a lot of experience would have crashed my Spark several times in the few weeks I've owned it.

Mine does the same thing in my neighborhood. Is there something I can do to increase or improve the GPS of the drone? Every time I switch to sport mode in flight, it shows my GPS in RED and I’ve lost control of it one time. So I’ve only flown short distances since then. However I read somewhere that the range on these sparks are supposed to be pretty decent!
Do you think my phone service could be causing the issue? For instance my phone (apple) shows one bar of service even connected to the house WiFi! In the house I’ll often have no service at all on my phone...Is the low service on my phone to blame for the crappy GPS IN SPORT MODE?