I have had had several flyaways with my Spark, but luckily I have always mede my Spark back to me undamaged. I must say I’m not that impressed that a compass error will take out all GPS functionality and make ATTI-mode for the drone. I think it must be a solution with small movemens or whatever, that could make the drone go back in a SEMI-autoway instead of the ATTI.

When I had my questions about this, people in this forum said I had to learn to control the AC in ATTI-mode. But there are no way to train ATTI-mode on the Spark, as there are no buttons or settings for this. Then I had a thought...


Suggestion:
How about setting the Spark in ATTI-mode with the FN-button, BUT JUST FOR A LIMITED RANGE? For example set ATTI-range to 20m. You could then safely train in ATTI-mode within a radius of 20m. Outside this sphere AC automaticly change to GPS-P mode.

In this way, I have, as a Pilot, at least a chance to train, to be prepaired when or if compassfailure. (To all of you who say that I should buy a separate AC with other flight characteristics to train ATTI-mode:  ”I want to train with an AC that have exactly the same charackteristics as the one I have to deal with during a compass failure”)

This must be a very easy feature to implement in the next firmware release, compaired to all compicated software controlling the Spark, which really impress me a lot:-)

Best Regards Thomas Lydhig

Good idea - if it can be done   

Ever since I started to receive those issues, i've uploaded every flight to Airdata UAV. Even when the flight goes perfectly fine, I upload it. I've had perfect flights show YAW errors and compass errors in the log, but your unaware during flight. I went and recalibrated the compass very slowly and ever since then, my issues have gone away. I guess my point is to always check your flight data for a pre-warning, and calibrate as needed. I had to calibrate my compass 3 times before it stopped throwing errors. I'm 10 flights in now with zero issues.

CHEFFY Posted at 2018-7-9 09:59
Ever since I started to receive those issues, i've uploaded every flight to Airdata UAV. Even when the flight goes perfectly fine, I upload it. I've had perfect flights show YAW errors and compass errors in the log, but your unaware during flight. I went and recalibrated the compass very slowly and ever since then, my issues have gone away. I guess my point is to always check your flight data for a pre-warning, and calibrate as needed. I had to calibrate my compass 3 times before it stopped throwing errors. I'm 10 flights in now with zero issues.

I’s alot of responce for 10 flight. I always also check warings. And I have made several calibrations. But we see what you say, if you like me was 2m way from AC, prepairing for landing, when AC suddenly started drifting away out to the see...

A CW Posted at 2018-7-9 09:51
Good idea - if it can be done

It’s today possible to limit how far away from you AC can fly, in DJI GO app. We know DJI can force AC to ATTI. I’m rather sure it’s very easy to do. If DJI want... or if many of us ask for it.

ThomasLydhig Posted at 2018-7-9 22:00
It’s today possible to limit how far away from you AC can fly, in DJI GO app. We know DJI can force AC to ATTI. I’m rather sure it’s very easy to do. If DJI want... or if many of us ask for it.

Yeah, set a max distance in the app.

I think it would be easy to implement but as hazardous as suddenly handing the control of a RC plane in flight to a newbie.  Perhaps fly ATTI in a simulator mode?  I am starting to think that hundreds of dollars worth of drone as a person's first RC aircraft isn't wise.  Not wise no matter how good it's autopilot is.

If you keep your Spark flying at a sufficient altitude not to fly too low over metal structures then compass error should be unlikely. The trouble is when someone hovers the Spark low or next to something with metal inside, it doesn't mean you can't encounter interference but if you keep it high enough then this limits possibly needing to fly the drone home in ATTI Mode. I don;t think you can practice enough to combat against ATTI Mode, even at short distances it's difficult to judge orientation and controlling the Spark when this happens. I totally agree with you that DJI should incorporate another level in between the two currently, as it would likely thwart against some of those fly-away's.

Gunship9 Posted at 2018-7-9 22:57
I think it would be easy to implement but as hazardous as suddenly handing the control of a RC plane in flight to a newbie.  Perhaps fly ATTI in a simulator mode?  I am starting to think that hundreds of dollars worth of drone as a person's first RC aircraft isn't wise.  Not wise no matter how good it's autopilot is.

1. The range limit, would minimize the damage.
2. When I have has this problems I have got messages from the forum, that I should be able to handle Spark in ATTI-mode. How can I handle that if not training?
3. Simulator are not even close ti the real thing.

davidmartingraf Posted at 2018-7-9 23:02
If you keep your Spark flying at a sufficient altitude not to fly too low over metal structures then compass error should be unlikely. The trouble is when someone hovers the Spark low or next to something with metal inside, it doesn't mean you can't encounter interference but if you keep it high enough then this limits possibly needing to fly the drone home in ATTI Mode. I don;t think you can practice enough to combat against ATTI Mode, even at short distances it's difficult to judge orientation and controlling the Spark when this happens. I totally agree with you that DJI should incorporate another level in between the two currently, as it would likely thwart against some of those fly-away's.

But for me my fault has happend far away from urban areas with alot of metal. So no Wifi-interference. And it has been up in the air... So this problems do occur, much too often for my well being.
And you are right, it’s hard to fly in ATTI-mode that’s why I think a limited training mode (to not getting fly-aways during practise) would help us pilot to be better when failure comes.

But best of all, as you agree, would be a GPS-only limitied safe home flight mode. It’s much better to crash 5m beside you that seeing the AC flying away in the the air...

Nice idea about 20 m radius ATTI.

This would not be true ATTI though since the AC would have to know its starting point (home point) and track current GPS position in order to measure distance from home point. However, everything else could be like ATTI - full response to environmental conditions such as wind without holding GPS position in one spot when no input from sticks.

I like it. If not for anything else, it could be fun.

I would throw one more thing to the mix - ability to set max distance and max altitude. Why limit to 20 m? Limit to whatever pilot wants to limit. These two limits (max distance and max altitude) would need to be different for "fake" ATTI and for regular default GPS mode.

Mirek  

Thomas,

You say: "I think it must be a solution with small movmens or whatever, that could make the drone go back in a SEMI-autoway instead of the ATTI."

The problem is - there is no easy solution. If compass, IMU and GPS are not in agreement, the AC must drop into ATTI so pilot has full control. Read about "toilet bowl effect" for drones so you will understand one of the reasons why (there are other reasons as well).

Yes - it is possible to start using GPS only and do a lot of hunting for position and figuring out if response of the drone to the commands is correct (even if compass and IMU are busted but GPS is healthy), but this requires more processing power. This would also require systems redundancy (which does exist in more expensive drones) because how would AC know that GPS shows good data and not false data due to some h/w error? Dangerous proposition. So Spark simply gives full control to the pilot.

I know that, at the surface, all sounds fairly simple. It is not. Decisions which DJI made are balanced and quite smart. Of course, this is not an excuse for issues which pilots do experience with Spark. But I must also say, following this forum and helping in analyzing logs, that DJI is fairly good at replacing lost or damaged drones if the problem was truly caused by their h/w or inefficiency of or bug in the software or firmware.

Having said that, your idea about ATTI learner mode is excellent.

Mirek

Mirek6 Posted at 2018-7-10 05:02
Nice idea about 20 m radius ATTI.

This would not be true ATTI though since the AC would have to know its starting point (home point) and track current GPS position in order to measure distance from home point. However, everything else could be like ATTI - full response to environmental conditions such as wind without holding GPS position in one spot when no input from sticks.

That was exacly what I meant, 20m was just an example. Sorry for being unclear.
Nice, that you liked it. How do we make DJI to implement this feature?

Mirek6 Posted at 2018-7-10 05:02
Nice idea about 20 m radius ATTI.

This would not be true ATTI though since the AC would have to know its starting point (home point) and track current GPS position in order to measure distance from home point. However, everything else could be like ATTI - full response to environmental conditions such as wind without holding GPS position in one spot when no input from sticks.

That was exacly what I meant, 20m was just an example. Sorry for being unclear.
Nice, that you liked it. How do we make DJI to implement this feature?

ThomasLydhig Posted at 2018-7-10 05:45
That was exacly what I meant, 20m was just an example. Sorry for being unclear.
Nice, that you liked it. How do we make DJI to implement this feature?

Yeah  - DJI Moderators do read these posts and they do bring ideas to their engineers.
They did not create this forum out of goodness of their hearts - this is good business :-)
We can only propose and hope that some of the ideas will be implemented by DJI.

I am sure that they have full hands of work on new version of their firmware for both Spark and RC, which they already announced few days ago on the Facebook page (and than that announcement off). Hmmm...

I was hoping for some solid improvements after 7 months of no updates. Especially less susceptibility of Spark to compass and yaw errors which result in ATTI in the first place. Not mentioning solid Android OTG support for which we are waiting since last October.

In the meantime, we need to be patient, be smart and knowledgeable when flying and just have fun.

Thanks for your contribution and for joining this forum.

Mirek

ThomasLydhig Posted at 2018-7-9 23:26
1. The range limit, would minimize the damage.
2. When I have has this problems I have got messages from the forum, that I should be able to handle Spark in ATTI-mode. How can I handle that if not training?
3. Simulator are not even close ti the real thing.

Yeah, the range limit would minimized damage.  Keeping it within eyesight and close enough that it isn't a vague dot in the distance would be helpful and within the intent of the law.  I think it is worth it to have the ATTI option but I don't think the company will implement it because of the newbie owner issues.  

How do you learn to fly in ATTI mode?  

Learn to fly it GPS stabilized in all orientations so you have full and precise control of the drone while it is facing you (controls reversed), facing away, facing to the left, and facing to the right.  

Learn to fly it home and land it, in GPS stabilized mode, instead of relying on the autopilot to find home and land for the owner.  I think a lot of "Spark in ATTI wasn't responding to the controller as it flew off" is from the owner not working the sticks while they frantically stabbed at the RTH button.

Learn to use the sticks to place the drone precisely where you want it instead of being satisfied with where it winds up after stick movements.  Learn to combine stick movements.

Lots of things people can do to learn to fly a drone.  Having ATTI mode control is part of flying a drone so buy an un-stabilized toy drone to learn control without autopilot stabilizing you.

I disagree that simulators are not even close to the real thing.  I disagree since I learned to fly RC by using a simulator.  I never had a trainer pilot to help me which was the way people used to learn to fly RC models.  I used the Real Flight G3.5 simulator to gain muscle memory and stick control, in all orientations, as I learned to fly an un-stabilized Align Trex 450 model helicopter.  A helicopter (my first RC model) being the worst thing to learn on as they were like balancing a ball on a pin back in the days before autopilots and gyro stabilizers.

My Spark is no problem because it is owned by a RC pilot that knows a little about photography.  Sparks owned by photographers that know a little about flying, are doomed.

ThomasLydhig Posted at 2018-7-9 23:34
But for me my fault has happend far away from urban areas with alot of metal. So no Wifi-interference. And it has been up in the air... So this problems do occur, much too often for my well being.
And you are right, it’s hard to fly in ATTI-mode that’s why I think a limited training mode (to not getting fly-aways during practise) would help us pilot to be better when failure comes.

I think if you check your gear before and after each flight to make sure nothing looks out of place, calculate how much wear-and-tear, and plan accordingly then you are limiting systematic risk.

Unsystematic risk when the Spark reverts to ATTI Mode is very difficult to combat and prevent.

ThomasLydhig Posted at 2018-7-9 23:26
1. The range limit, would minimize the damage.
2. When I have has this problems I have got messages from the forum, that I should be able to handle Spark in ATTI-mode. How can I handle that if not training?
3. Simulator are not even close ti the real thing.

They will not be integrated because a lot more Spark will fall because they will turn it on with intransigence and collide with the lack of braking. Spark's target audience is looking for an automatic flight. For this reason, it is advisable to eliminate the error and then the Spark will not be in ATTI mode, so you do not have to know it. The ATTI training mode does not solve the problem, but is a symptomatic treatment.

Gunship9 Posted at 2018-7-10 06:51
Yeah, the range limit would minimized damage.  Keeping it within eyesight and close enough that it isn't a vague dot in the distance would be helpful and within the intent of the law.  I think it is worth it to have the ATTI option but I don't think the company will implement it because of the newbie owner issues.  

How do you learn to fly in ATTI mode?  

I never use RTH, bacause people in the forum has warned for it’s use. So I allways fly manual. And I tried to move the AC in positions to get the best pictures. what I want to take pictures. Taking photos was my main purpose for buying the Spark. I wanted to get pictures from new angles. New views. And as I’m an real amatour photographer I didn’t had the budget for buing the best DJI drone...

You wrote: ”Photographers with a little flyingskills are doomed”, and you are problable compleatly right, due the problems Spark has...

But I bought my Spark because of the information I found on DJI:s home page, like: ”Worry-free flight in the palm of your hand.”.

So I hope you are wrong, that I’m not doomed and DJI improves their firmware on Spark, so it fullfills their advertising. In the meantime the least DJI could do is giving me a tools for real training when failures come and I’m forced to fly in ATTI mode.

I just come up with a solution that would make ATTI-training less dangerous, because of the rangelimit. That’s all.

ThomasLydhig Posted at 2018-7-10 07:48
I never use RTH, bacause people in the forum has warned for it’s use. So I allways fly manual. And I tried to move the AC in positions what I want to take pictures, that was my main purpose for buying the Spark.
I wanted to get pictures in from new angles. New views. And as I’m an real amatour photographer I didn’t had the budget for buing the best DJI drone...

I think the Spark is a beginner drone in the way a Honda CBR600RR sport bike is a beginner motorcycle.  They are the cheapest in their category but,...  Beginners are best served with an old used motorcycle without plastic and a cheap toy drone because both will be crashed.  That is the nature of beginners learning anything so why crash something pricey?

The "Worry free flight" is very much advertising taking liberties with the language.  Flight in a moving fluid (air) is always worry full until you know the all the dangers and gotcha hazards.

You never use RTH and fly skillfully to precisely place the drone.  I think that may be why you were able to fly your Spark back to you in ATTI rather than just lose the Spark as you pressed the RTH button.  I wonder how many Spark owners can precisely land the Spark on a 2 foot by 2 foot wooden table.  Land it facing the right way or are they just happy the autopilot lands for them or that it lands somewhere in the parking lot.

That's just it.  Atti mode is most likely when the drone is near coming in for a landing.

The trick is to land straight down, so if atti mode occurs there will a lot less instability.

It really is a fine system and sweet drone. Thanks.

Blellow Posted at 2018-7-10 08:08
That's just it.  Atti mode is most likely when the drone is near coming in for a landing.

The trick is to land straight down, so if atti mode occurs there will a lot less instability.

How do you know then ATTI-mode occurs? If it starts drifting during your straight landing what do you do then? And then the drone goes to ATTI-mode it’s a failure, less failures the better drone.

I like my drone, but it has been too much failures for me call it sweet.