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HarleyGuy55
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Flight distance : 1159409 ft
United States
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So i have 3 batteries and i run my battery safety levels at 15% critical and 30% warning ! But i dont always fly till there at those levels i sometimes fly or mess around till one or 2 bars are out then let them cool down then charge them so they are ready for tomorrow.. So ive be reading that i should run them down once in a while pretty close to the max discharge level then cool down then charge again but i kind of get conflicking info so is there anyone out there that has a bettery thats got 40 or even 60 charges on it and its still doing a great job holding a charge and doing what it is suppossed to do . could you share your info. Sorry that didnt sound right .. no offence intended.. Is there anyone thats got the same battery for years now that wants to share there wisdom ? LOL ! I'd like to think i'm pretty sauvy on the LiPo batteries and others being as ive been doing RC stuff for years and have only had one battery explode and that was 15 years ago and using the wrong type of charger .. well the right charger wrong setting. But at $170 dollars each i'd like to get some life out of these batteries. Thank you and as a fellow drone guy says on here "Drone On" my friends drone on !
2018-9-5
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solentlife
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Flight distance : 1087530 ft
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Forget all that crap about deep discharge ........ if you already are using LiPo's - then you should already know the folly of deep discharging a LiPo.

The only possible benefit from doing a deep discharge of a DJI battery is to get the counter in the board re-aligned to the battery. It is said that after many charges - it can start to report batterys charged level slightly wrong.

Personally I have DJi batterys with significant number of charges, well over your suggested 60 and still giving excellent performance without deep discharge ever conducted.

I don't play games with my batterys ... I charge to fly ... fly generally to about 30% .... remove and store till next wanted ... charge up and fly etc. etc. I do not charge to 50% as some suggest, not necessary if you are at 30% or more at end of flight. If charged and not flown, or I land with still high charge remaining  - my auto discharge will do the job for me.

IMHO - there is too much paranoia and hype passed around about these batterys. DJI have produced a system to look after the less experienced LiPo user and that also benefits the more knowledgeable ... just let them do their programmed thing.

Nigel
2018-9-5
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HarleyGuy55
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1159409 ft
United States
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solentlife Posted at 2018-9-5 03:12
Forget all that crap about deep discharge ........ if you already are using LiPo's - then you should already know the folly of deep discharging a LiPo.

The only possible benefit from doing a deep discharge of a DJI battery is to get the counter in the board re-aligned to the battery. It is said that after many charges - it can start to report batterys charged level slightly wrong.

Thanks but i'm still not understanding ! So i fly till whenever lets say 30% or more.. should i charge battery and then put it away till tomorrow or put it away and charge before i fly. So i guess the question always store 100% battery or discharged battery !
2018-9-5
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HarleyGuy55
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Flight distance : 1159409 ft
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So this is my story.. I keep my batteries charged because i fly every day . I'm hearing maybe that i should not charge till i'm ready to fly the next day or when ever?
2018-9-5
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solentlife
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LiPo's do not like standing at full charge..... whether one day or one year. That's the chemistry ...

But we need to look at it in a practical way.

Best policy is to charge immediately before use. Or if time is a problem - charge night before.
If you are actually using your batterys every day - then charging as near to when you use is best policy.

I would suggest that you set auto discharge to 2 days ... which means as long as you do not press power button - after 48hrs standing - it will start to self discharge to the ~60% mark over next 2 days. Pressing power button will reset the timer or stop the discharge.
Using the 2 day setting means you can basically charge up ready for next session and not worry if you do not fly. The battery program will look after it for you. Just remember to charge up before you do fly.

I strongly suggest that if a battery stands for more than 12hrs before flight - to switch on battery and plug charger in to top up the small amount lost by batterys self discharge.  ALL batterys suffer self discharge but at a very low rate.

Nigel
2018-9-5
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Nigel_
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Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
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HarleyGuy55 Posted at 2018-9-5 03:30
Thanks but i'm still not understanding ! So i fly till whenever lets say 30% or more.. should i charge battery and then put it away till tomorrow or put it away and charge before i fly. So i guess the question always store 100% battery or discharged battery !

The batteries don't like being either full or empty, they like around 50%.  If charging them to 100% when you get home results in them being at 100% for double the time that charging them on the morning of use does, then you might easily half their lifespan.

It is important that they are charged to 100% before flight, do so as late as is convenient, night before is OK if that is convenient but you will loose some lifespan by doing it that early.

If you land with them at less than 20% then charge them back up to around 50% as soon as convenient, if you really fly every day then try to land before 20% so that you don't need to bother doing this.

If you are not using them for a while, charge them to 50%, or a bit more, for storage.

Every 3 months, take them down to 7% or less and then give a single charge back to 100%.  It is not clear how important this is, certainly doesn't need to be exactly 3 months, but I do think it should be done, especially if they are in storage and not being used since if they are not exercised for 6 months then they are known to die.

If you are following the above rules then set the auto discharge to the 2 day minimum.

They also don't like heat, try to keep them cool, but not freezing, and when charging aim for between 15°C and 30°C.

You should probably be able to get 500 charges out of them before they loose 20-30% capacity, loosing a few charges to convenience is only a matter of cost, not a big problem.  As far as I know, as long as you always charge to 100% before use, there is no problem using them until they force an auto-land, I quite often do.
2018-9-5
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HarleyGuy55
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1159409 ft
United States
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Nigel_ Posted at 2018-9-5 04:39
The batteries don't like being either full or empty, they like around 50%.  If charging them to 100% when you get home results in them being at 100% for double the time that charging them on the morning of use does, then you might easily half their lifespan.

It is important that they are charged to 100% before flight, do so as late as is convenient, night before is OK if that is convenient but you will loose some lifespan by doing it that early.

Thank you so very much for all your help/info .. I will try and follow your advice. Thanks again and have a wonderful day !
2018-9-5
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Nebuchadnezzar
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Flight distance : 2086877 ft
Spain
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i wonder why batteries come with less than 40 % ( i wolud said 35%) when you chargue it by first time ......
2018-9-5
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Mark The Droner
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Flight distance : 2917 ft
United States
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I think the batteries are shipped to the dealer in an ideal storage charge.  Then they are in the dealer's inventory for X amount of time.  The battery will naturally discharge with time.  Sometimes they discharge to a level which is not ideal.  
2018-9-5
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solentlife
Captain
Flight distance : 1087530 ft
Latvia
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35% is actually the recc'd storage level by battery manufacturers ...

LiPo's are best stored at 3.75 - 3.85V per cell.

The P3 battery is quoted as nominal and shipped at 15.4V ... divide that by 4 = 3.85V  ... what a co-incidence.

As long as battery is landed at or more than 30% level - its good to store. No need to charge to 50%.

This is the 'Fuel Table' for LiPo and even though DJI use LiHV version at 4.35V per cell instead pf the standard 4.20V per cell ... the table is still applicable once the top 10% power is drawn from the LiHV :



There are claims that using Voltage is inaccurate form of measuring the cells ... actually that's not true as there is little else you can do in terms of static non-working mode measurement. Voltage is the only figure you can derive. The LiPo has a specific graph of voltage to % charge and this graph never alters. What does alter is internal resistance and this is what determines whether the battery can supply the amps needed.

Nigel
2018-9-5
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Hellsgate
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Flight distance : 1991555 ft
Australia
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Ive had my p4p batteries x 3 for over a year now they are usually kept in a fully charged state due to the fact that i often fly for the emergency service's. The batteries need to be ready to go at a phone calls notice.
Ive never had a battery problem and ive never done a deep discharge.
The lowest level my batteries have ever been down to is 12%.
There is some contention about how you should look after your batteries but if you are flying every day then i honestly dont think it matters what you do.
The problem arises when your batteries are in storage for a long time.  If you are going to not fly for some time you can either fly till your batteries reach around the 30 - 50% mark or just fully charge them and then just leave them alone dont press the button just leave them.
You can if you wish check on them once every cple of months but thats about all you need to do. Top them up to around 50% as required.
2018-9-6
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HarleyGuy55
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1159409 ft
United States
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-9-6 00:23
Ive had my p4p batteries x 3 for over a year now they are usually kept in a fully charged state due to the fact that i often fly for the emergency service's. The batteries need to be ready to go at a phone calls notice.
Ive never had a battery problem and ive never done a deep discharge.
The lowest level my batteries have ever been down to is 12%.

Thank you to all that have helped me with my battery questions. You all are great ! But now i have a more upsetting issue. I'll post it in general area i think thats the proper place ? Anyway thanks again to all !
2018-9-6
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HarleyGuy55
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solentlife Posted at 2018-9-5 23:56
35% is actually the recc'd storage level by battery manufacturers ...

LiPo's are best stored at 3.75 - 3.85V per cell.

Thanks Nigel !
2018-9-6
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HarleyGuy55
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1159409 ft
United States
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Hellsgate Posted at 2018-9-6 00:23
Ive had my p4p batteries x 3 for over a year now they are usually kept in a fully charged state due to the fact that i often fly for the emergency service's. The batteries need to be ready to go at a phone calls notice.
Ive never had a battery problem and ive never done a deep discharge.
The lowest level my batteries have ever been down to is 12%.

Thank you Mr.Hellsgate ! yes i fly everyday and at least 2 batteries worth of flying sometimes all three. I have one battery that i bought via Ebay and although it looks exactly like a dji battery and i mean exactly i don't think it is.. The batteries that came with both my P4 and P4P V2.0 fit snuggly and this other battery is loss and when i land no matter soft or a bit harder the battery kind of resets itself.. weird but or so that battery i do not use for any other flying other than close proximity flying. but the other 2 i use for my long distance  flying. All 3 batteries are charged sometimes 3 times a day depending on how much time i have .  And i've not had any kind of issue with any of my batteries so far. But at $175.00 dollars each + tax I'd kind of like to keep using the ones i have for a LONG time! I need to invest in 1 more than one of those charger multi battery base units so i can charge 3 or 4 batteries at same time . But at this time i'm so upset with my neighbors i could spit nails. If you get some time please read in the General area my post on Neighbors complaining and lets hear your opinion please ? Thanks again for your wisdom ! Have a awesome day and thanks for doing what you do (rescue wise)...
2018-9-6
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Nigel_
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Flight distance : 388642 ft
United Kingdom
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solentlife Posted at 2018-9-5 23:56
35% is actually the recc'd storage level by battery manufacturers ...

LiPo's are best stored at 3.75 - 3.85V per cell.

It's a little confusing because when it reaches 0%, as measured by DJI, the battery is far from empty, some is kept for reserve in case you are still in the air, but also a P4 battery will not let you completely empty it, I think mainly because if completely empty then you can't rapid charge it for several minutes without causing damage so it hurts the charging time significantly.  As you say, around 3.8 volts is the real best storage voltage for most lithium batteries, which in a normal LIPO cell measured scientifically would be about 50%, but not when measured by DJI on their high voltage LIPO packs.

Using voltage as a measure of how full the battery is works perfectly as long as there is no load on the battery, but if you are using 500 watts of power then the voltage will drop considerably just because of the load, so it is not possible to use voltage as a measurement of how full the battery is while flying.  If it is under load then the voltage drop is also affected by temperature making things even more inaccurate. Much better for the intelligent battery to monitor how much power is being used and keep a running total, but that requires that you know the capacity, which is why it is important to empty it and do a full charge to measure the real capacity every so often, in a good battery this is required very infrequently since capacity doesn't change much.
2018-9-6
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DJI Wanda
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Hi. We apologize for the inconvenience. You may check this safety guidelines for Phantom 4 series batteries: https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/ ... delines_V1.0_EN.pdf
2018-9-6
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solentlife
Captain
Flight distance : 1087530 ft
Latvia
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Charged capacity of a battery is always rated at ZERO load - so voltage being the only actual measurement you can make without applying a load is 100% valid.

Yes of course a battery voltage drops when under load … its actually why you can use NiMh as cell for cell replacement of Dry Cell … Dry cell is 1.5V no load but falls significantly to 1.2 or so under load. A NiXX cells is 1.35v no load and usually similar 1.25v when under load … so works fine.


Just to dispel a myth : Capacity does not change in a battery unless physical damage or loss of chemicals. No matter how old that battery gets - the capacity will always be the same if it holds charge. What actually changes and gives appearance of lost capacity is the internal resistance causing greater voltage drop and the work time reduces …


Nigel
2018-9-6
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HarleyGuy55
Second Officer
Flight distance : 1159409 ft
United States
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DJI Wanda Posted at 2018-9-6 05:18
Hi. We apologize for the inconvenience. You may check this safety guidelines for Phantom 4 series batteries: https://dl.djicdn.com/downloads/Phantom_4_Advanced/20170413/Intelligent_Flight_Battery_Safety_Guidelines/Phantom+4+Series+Intelligent+Flight+Battery+Safety+Guidelines_V1.0_EN.pdf

Thanks Wanda , But i have read and reread that same info . It came with both my P4 and P4P V2.0 . But not all batteries act the same. and i'm sure the dji method is a proven way not all of us are able to do exactly as described. But thank you for your help.  You are a breath of fresh air !
2018-9-6
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Weiguoorng
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China
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We CTECHI Group is a leading lithium manganese dioxide battery, lithium iron disulfide battery,lithium sulfur dioxide battery and lithium iron phosphate battery manufacturer and exporter in China, we are not only focus on provide single cell but provide battery assembly and do OEM service for customers, CTECHI has captured 80 percent of overseas markets in the past 16 years with more than 2000 reliable customers in our customer management system, which has been being one of the leading enterprises with the most complete category in China's battery industry. If you have any question or request, please vist CTECHi Website www.superlithiumbattery.com
2018-9-29
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Mark The Droner
Captain
Flight distance : 2917 ft
United States
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So there's an 80% chance CTECHi crashed my drone.  Good to know.  
2018-9-29
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solentlife
Captain
Flight distance : 1087530 ft
Latvia
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-9-5 14:58
I think the batteries are shipped to the dealer in an ideal storage charge.  Then they are in the dealer's inventory for X amount of time.  The battery will naturally discharge with time.  Sometimes they discharge to a level which is not ideal.

Actually I suggest that the manufacturer is shipping at the better level which is lower than 50% ...

Buy any LiPo over counter / online and see what the voltage / charge level is and you will find similar 3.8 - 3.85V per cell ....

Nigel
2018-9-29
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