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Went into auto land at 29%
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Goldenseal
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Help in reading the flight records would be appreciated.

DJI sent me a replacement P4 for the one I had that threw a prop. My new P4 was built July 17, 2018. It died Oct. 8, 2018.
i was on my second battery With 29% left. I was flying in Black Water Canyon. Beautiful day. I wanted to take a still of the Elakala falls # 2. There are 3 in that series of falls on Shays run. It looked like I was over the third falls when it decided to land. I was going to come home with the wind in my favor. Totally LOS.Nothing but air between us. I hit the cancel to land as soon as I noticed it, repeatedly, with no success. I think it was in critical battery mode and I couldn't make it come up. The dreaded disconnect came up. It crashed near the bottom of the canyon. I have read about people taking pictures of Elakaia falls #2 and #3 over land. It said do not attempt unless you are in good physical condition with good climbing skills. I think being a 65 year old disabled man rules me out. LOL



https://www.phantomhelp.com/logviewer/YNIOVGQATYBEU6A0FVZS/
2018-10-8
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Mark The Droner
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I'm tryin' to watch MNF football, so I've only looked at it for 30 secs  but IMO running sport mode with 29% battery is a mistake.  

Sorry for your loss.
2018-10-8
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Geebax
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It took nearly a minute to land. And during the Autoland process, you still have some control, but hitting the cancel button is pointless, it will not cancel. You should have used the sticks to guide it to a safe landing spot.
2018-10-8
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Goldenseal
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-10-8 18:04
I'm tryin' to watch MNF football, so I've only looked at it for 30 secs  but IMO running sport mode with 29% battery is a mistake.  

Sorry for your loss.

Teach me why it was a mistake. I want to learn from you. (I don't think I put it into sport mode) I'm almost stationary, with 29% battery.  I haven't touched anything waiting for the picture to finish to come home and it goes to critical battery landing. I usually fly around my backyard till it is much lower then that. I started off with a 100% battery. I want to know why this time was any different then every other time I flew?
2018-10-8
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RedHotPoker
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Sorry to read about your bad luck flight.


Hope you get it figured out. Good luck.


RedHotPoker
2018-10-8
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Goldenseal
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Geebax Posted at 2018-10-8 18:27
It took nearly a minute to land. And during the Autoland process, you still have some control, but hitting the cancel button is pointless, it will not cancel. You should have used the sticks to guide it to a safe landing spot.

I took 2 HDR shots. In that time it may have started to auto land and I didn't notice. Doesn't explain auto land. Why? Also There is nowhere to land in a wilderness terrain in a vertical forest canyon.  
2018-10-8
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Bashy
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As what Mark said, Looks like cause it was in sports mode with only 29% left, there was a lot of drain on the battery with so little left in it, having said that i use sports mode too and never encountered this, but then i have the high power batteries, as yours was the p4, it would have been the standard P4 battery? Hey, perhaps the battery was on its way out, come to end of life.
2018-10-8
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Bashy
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Did this fall from the sky? what i mean is, did it auto land or drop in the end? in the log, its not showing the VPS kicking in, i could be wrong but it looks like the battery actually gave up befroe it had chance to land

2018-10-8
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CA Mavic Pro
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Lebanon
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Sorry for lost drone.
I try to land with at least 25% remaining. The low battery warning on mavic pro kicks in at 30% and adds to the stress if the drone isn't in the final landing phase
2018-10-8
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CA Mavic Pro
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Lebanon
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Battery reading looks strange too. skipping few %age here and there
2018-10-8
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Geebax
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-8 18:49
I took 2 HDR shots. In that time it may have started to auto land and I didn't notice. Doesn't explain auto land. Why? Also There is nowhere to land in a wilderness terrain in a vertical forest canyon.

Why it went into Autoland I cannot say, but the most likely explanation was that you accidentally hit the Autoland button. Sure there may be nowhere to land in a deep canyon, but the aircraft does not know that. It should not have been landing due to critically low power or such, otherwise it would have said so in the log. According to the log, it was going down below the lauch altitude by 65 feet, so the last record may be correct.
2018-10-8
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Mark The Droner
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-8 18:33
Teach me why it was a mistake. I want to learn from you. (I don't think I put it into sport mode) I'm almost stationary, with 29% battery.  I haven't touched anything waiting for the picture to finish to come home and it goes to critical battery landing. I usually fly around my backyard till it is much lower then that. I started off with a 100% battery. I want to know why this time was any different then every other time I flew?

As you can see from PhantomHelp's graphic log displays in the right corner, you had the right stick about three-quarters of the way forward before it moved to sport mode.  That's okay.  But then you went into sport mode with the right stick still in the same forward position.  So the AC accelerated forward and increased speed dramatically.  Oddly, you were flying away from home during this time.  Shortly after that, it went into critical autoland.

I don't think it's a good idea to fly aggressively during the latter half of a battery's flight.  Why?  Because you're putting stress on the cells and causing their individual cell voltages to drop to great depths suddenly - when they are already low.  If any individual cell happens to hit a certain low point (I think it's 3.3v), the battery triggers the AC into critical autoland in a desperate attempt to save itself before the battery shuts itself off (3.0 v).  But according to the log, your cells are higher than that.  

In fact, according to the log, there are no changes in the cell voltages at all during this time which doesn't make sense.  There may be something wrong with the battery as far as what it is reporting vs reality.  Or it could be some of the telemetry written to the log became redundant (false) due to a weak downlink signal.  

As pointed out in post #3, you cannot cancel critical autoland.  If you don't have a safe place to land, the best procedure is to drive it out of danger with the sticks.  By pushing up on the left stick, you can keep the AC aloft when it's in critical autoland which might give you time to find a best place to set it down.  However, there is a danger the battery will shut itself off at any time without warning.





2018-10-9
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Anthony8858
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Curious if the battery was a third party battery or DJI?
2018-10-9
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Goldenseal
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Strictly a DJI battery.
2018-10-9
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Goldenseal
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Mark The Droner Posted at 2018-10-9 01:57
As you can see from PhantomHelp's graphic log displays in the right corner, you had the right stick about three-quarters of the way forward before it moved to sport mode.  That's okay.  But then you went into sport mode with the right stick still in the same forward position.  So the AC accelerated forward and increased speed dramatically.  Oddly, you were flying away from home during this time.  Shortly after that, it went into critical autoland.

I don't think it's a good idea to fly aggressively during the latter half of a battery's flight.  Why?  Because you're putting stress on the cells and causing their individual cell voltages to drop to great depths suddenly - when they are already low.  If any individual cell happens to hit a certain low point (I think it's 3.3v), the battery triggers the AC into critical autoland in a desperate attempt to save itself before the battery shuts itself off (3.0 v).  But according to the log, your cells are higher than that.  

Thank you for the reply.
Your statements are good rules to follow to keep out of trouble. No problems had come up though.  I was standing on a rock overlooking the canyon. I had perfect LOS.  No signal problems whatsoever. Battery was not problematic. It was a box in canyon with no trails in the canyon. It was just rocks, cliffs, trees and rattlesnakes. No problem of endangering anyone.
My statements are not ment to be defensive. Just trying to figure this out. I got the regular 30% battery warning. I was going to take a picture since that was my goal and return home. No big deal. It was an easy flight home with a tailwind.  Critical battery when everything seemed like a normal flight has got me puzzled.
2018-10-9
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Mark The Droner
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-9 05:50
Thank you for the reply.
Your statements are good rules to follow to keep out of trouble. No problems had come up though.  I was standing on a rock overlooking the canyon. I had perfect LOS.  No signal problems whatsoever. Battery was not problematic. It was a box in canyon with no trails in the canyon. It was just rocks, cliffs, trees and rattlesnakes. No problem of endangering anyone.
My statements are not ment to be defensive. Just trying to figure this out. I got the regular 30% battery warning. I was going to take a picture since that was my goal and return home. No big deal. It was an easy flight home with a tailwind.  Critical battery when everything seemed like a normal flight has got me puzzled.

Then it's possible the battery had a problem.  Unfortunately it's hard to get a warranty replacement since you're supposed to turn in the broken AC.  DJI would want to see the log that's onboard the AC.  Maybe talk somebody into going down into the canyon to get it?  Or hire somebody?  Then contact DJI and see what they say.

Good luck!
2018-10-9
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ALABAMA
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This has happened to me once.  Lucky for me it was within 100 ft  and I was able  to bring it back safely.   I had just completed two other flights and was trying to work in another. I came to the conclusion that
the battery was not giving a true reading.
2018-10-9
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Goldenseal
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Bashy Posted at 2018-10-8 19:15
Did this fall from the sky? what i mean is, did it auto land or drop in the end? in the log, its not showing the VPS kicking in, i could be wrong but it looks like the battery actually gave up befroe it had chance to land

[view_image]

No, it didn’t fall. It went into auto land and then it said, disconnect .

I was apprehensive about flying over the canyon, in case something would go wrong. My wife said, it no different then flying over water. There are no trails in that canyon.
My uncle in his younger days, went down the opposite side of the canyon to go trout fishing.  He had to go over an area that was bare rocks that looked like rocks sliding down the hill. He said it was great fishing. Coming up was the bad part. He said every rock look like it had a rattlesnake on it. A ranger was at the top waiting for him. My uncle said, do you want to see my fish? The ranger said, no. I just wanted to see if you would make it up alive.
2018-10-9
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Goldenseal
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ALABAMA Posted at 2018-10-9 07:02
This has happened to me once.  Lucky for me it was within 100 ft  and I was able  to bring it back safely.   I had just completed two other flights and was trying to work in another. I came to the conclusion that
the battery was not giving a true reading.

Hunker down Alabama. I will be passing your way to Panama City Saturday and Sunday if the lights are back on.
2018-10-9
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ALABAMA
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-9 10:02
Hunker down Alabama. I will be passing your way to Panama City Saturday and Sunday if the lights are back on.

Hope you can get there.  Good thing is it's a fast mover.  Beaches will probably be a mess too.
2018-10-9
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Goldenseal
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My metal detector and I will have a good time. LOL I don't think will be flying soon, if ever again.
2018-10-9
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Goldenseal
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DJI. What do you make of the flight records?

https://www.phantomhelp.com/logviewer/YNIOVGQATYBEU6A0FVZS/
2018-10-9
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RedHotPoker
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-9 11:07
My metal detector and I will have a good time. LOL I don't think will be flying soon, if ever again.

The nice thing about a metal detector, you don’t need any FAA permit, to make money with it. Haha


Golden...


RedHotPoker
2018-10-9
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Goldenseal
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2018-10-9 14:31
The nice thing about a metal detector, you don’t need any FAA permit, to make money with it. Haha

Oh yeah. my detectors have paid for themselves, plus the batteries. They have never broke down. LOL  I have found handfuls of gold plus silver. I have metal detected for 10 hours strait. I can't do that anymore. I love seeing that sparkle of gold in the dirt and I love seeing that golden sunset flying at 300 ft.
2018-10-9
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Geebax
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It is no good appealing to DJI to examine the flight record, the moderators are not skilled in reading them and no-one from DJI ever reads them and reports back to a poster. The only interpretation you will get is from skilled forum members.

I don't think there was any failure, either hardware or software. At 17m 5s the warning "Critically Low Power. Aircraft Landing. Throttle up to reduce the speed of descent and use sticks to avoid obstacles." is shown. This is telling you that the aircraft senses that it is running out of battery power and does not have enough to return to the take-off point. The message gives you the option to slow the descent, and you can use trhe controls to find a optimum place to land. I did not see this earlier, but it indicates that low battery initiated the Autoland procedure, rather than accidentally hitting the button.

But 18 seconds later, the log reports: "warnings:Mobile device CPU fully loaded. Related performance will be affected." This means the phone/tablet device you are using has run out of horsepower to process the display, so it is quite possible that it might not have displayed the previous warning.

It is quite common for flyers to ignore, or fail to see, warnings. It takes practice to see them and also knowledge of what to do when it happens. You may have been able to put the aircraft down somewhere safe in the canyon, but not knowing the place, I can't say. In any event, you appear to have just accepted that in Autoland there was nothing you could do.

While 29% seems to be plenty of reserve power, it is actually not, if you know that the machine is not able to measure the power left in a really accurate way. Experienced fliers have usually land by 29% because they know the risks associated with running out of power in a dangerous location.
2018-10-9
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RedHotPoker
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-9 16:51
Oh yeah. my detectors have paid for themselves, plus the batteries. They have never broke down. LOL  I have found handfuls of gold plus silver. I have metal detected for 10 hours strait. I can't do that anymore. I love seeing that sparkle of gold in the dirt and I love seeing that golden sunset flying at 300 ft.

Tell me what you think about these videos?









Is this real? It seems too easy, unreasonably. Really looks like fake bullion to me, in the last vid...
I don’t know? Hmmmmnnn scratches head

RedHotPoker







2018-10-9
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Goldenseal
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Geebax Posted at 2018-10-9 17:05
It is no good appealing to DJI to examine the flight record, the moderators are not skilled in reading them and no-one from DJI ever reads them and reports back to a poster. The only interpretation you will get is from skilled forum members.

I don't think there was any failure, either hardware or software. At 17m 5s the warning "Critically Low Power. Aircraft Landing. Throttle up to reduce the speed of descent and use sticks to avoid obstacles." is shown. This is telling you that the aircraft senses that it is running out of battery power and does not have enough to return to the take-off point. The message gives you the option to slow the descent, and you can use trhe controls to find a optimum place to land. I did not see this earlier, but it indicates that low battery initiated the Autoland procedure, rather than accidentally hitting the button.

My mobile device being full has only affected my video loading up. I have always had good response with no lag with my IPad as this message has come up many times. I just start dumping videos etc. off my I Pad. Maybe it's me, but I have a problem with the one statement about landing before 29% by experience pilots. I think that is more of an opinion on your part, not fact. I don't want to get into listing names, but I know multiple experienced  flyers that land lower than 29%.  I'm not  totally a neophyte with more then 900,000 mi. flown.
2018-10-9
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Geebax
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-9 19:11
My mobile device being full has only affected my video loading up. I have always had good response with no lag with my IPad as this message has come up many times. I just start dumping videos etc. off my I Pad. Maybe it's me, but I have a problem with the one statement about landing before 29% by experience pilots. I think that is more of an opinion on your part, not fact. I don't want to get into listing names, but I know multiple experienced  flyers that land lower than 29%.  I'm not  totally a neophyte with more then 900,000 mi. flown.

The message indicates that the mobile device is running out of processor resources. It is not uncommon, as the demands of the DGI Go app have increased in recent times, placing more stress on the devices. I don't believe it has anything to do with the Autoland, but it might explain why you did not see the message.

Experienced flyers take note of where they are flying and the associated risks. If the flying location is risky, then they tend to err on the conservative side. The displayed battery capacity is not an absolute, you cannot bank on it. The aircraft is constantly evaluating battery status, and if it thinks the battery does not have the reserve needed to fly back to the take-off point, it will, quite spontaneously, decide to land in an effort to save the aircraft. The only trouble with this action, is that it has no idea what is underneath the aircraft.

2018-10-9
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Bashy
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29% battery and auto land is a bit extreme though isnt it? had to be a faulty battery, no way cause it didnt have enough  to get to the home point, i have seen many videos where folks have headed home and its auto landed at the normal 10% when many m's still from home, granted, i may not fully understand this side of flight as yet due to never been in this predicament  as yet, i am normally around my home point at 30% , thats not to say it will never happen though lol
2018-10-9
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Geebax
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Bashy Posted at 2018-10-9 20:22
29% battery and auto land is a bit extreme though isnt it? had to be a faulty battery, no way cause it didnt have enough  to get to the home point, i have seen many videos where folks have headed home and its auto landed at the normal 10% when many m's still from home, granted, i may not fully understand this side of flight as yet due to never been in this predicament  as yet, i am normally around my home point at 30% , thats not to say it will never happen though lol

Yes, it is a bit dodgy, but the displayed percentage has nothing to do with the aircraft's decision to land. It is not looking at the percentage remaining, it is examining the battery under load, and making its decision based on that. The OP was running in sport mode just prior to the Autoland, and the battery may have been showing signs of sagging voltage.
2018-10-9
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Goldenseal
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We have a gentleman on this another forum that has resolved the situation. Along with my poor cognitive skills as I age and my very mono focused mind on not noticing multiple issues was a problem. The P4 was the other problem.

I have 2 batteries. This was an issue 2 weeks ago with both batteries in the P4. The issue never affected any of the operations or flight time with the p4. One battery I just bought new. I was in contact with DJI about it, because this was a replacement P4 they had sent me. It never happened on the other P4 I had. I should have sent the P4 back. I cleaned the contacts in the P4 and I never saw the errors come up again. I flew it about 6 times with no more battery signal error. I have to concentrate on my flying. I not very multitasking. My wife helped me watch for it, because I cannot bring the error message up in the records. I was having a thrilling time flying over that canyon and to be able to get a picture of the second falls. A place I would never be able to get to by land. Also, I was standing on a point jetting out over the canyon and the shots were amazing.
My cognitive skills have been a depressing issue as I age. I think slower and have to concentrate harder on what I do.
The gentleman in the other forum brought up charts to show what was going on. Battery error messages did come up, that I did not notice. The notices never affected the flight or time flying. I have flown it around my backyard repeatedly in testing it. The chart shows the P4 had not initiated low battery warning, besides the critical battery warning.  The view of the chart being posted is hampered  by my abilities on the forum. #1 my poor judgment. I shlouud have sent it back. DJI gave me a lable.
#2 P4 was defective

2018-10-10
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solentlife
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Just to add to anothers comment about landing out ... I am one of those who likes to be on the ground when 30% battery ... that then means a) I am safe level ... b) I can store the batterys straight off.

Ok - flying in canyons / ridges / varying geo terrain. You may be standing in relatively good air, but away where you cannot detect may be subject to significant up / down / side drafts that will cause the Flight Controller to demand higher power to maintain hover / flight you command. You think all is fine because your air space is good ... the AC's air space may be causing all sorts of demands ... so a 29% battery level could in fact be determined to be low enough level to instigate warnings etc. Personally I would be flying extremely cautiously in such areas and in fact returning home on higher level of battery than usual. Better to plug in a fresh battery and go back to last point to get that extra shot etc.

I really feel sorry for you losing the AC ... and all the advice and comments in the world are not going to get it back for you.

Nigel
2018-10-10
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Goldenseal
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solentlife Posted at 2018-10-10 09:25
Just to add to anothers comment about landing out ... I am one of those who likes to be on the ground when 30% battery ... that then means a) I am safe level ... b) I can store the batterys straight off.

Ok - flying in canyons / ridges / varying geo terrain. You may be standing in relatively good air, but away where you cannot detect may be subject to significant up / down / side drafts that will cause the Flight Controller to demand higher power to maintain hover / flight you command. You think all is fine because your air space is good ... the AC's air space may be causing all sorts of demands ... so a 29% battery level could in fact be determined to be low enough level to instigate warnings etc. Personally I would be flying extremely cautiously in such areas and in fact returning home on higher level of battery than usual. Better to plug in a fresh battery and go back to last point to get that extra shot etc.

What you say is true. Some may put it higher which increases the safety even more.  At that point, I was trying to come home. Which I estimate, I would have landed in the mid 20's. In my estimation, with the tail winds, I was in good shape. Now learning on the other forum, It was not a battery issue. The P4 just decided to land.
I flew it thinking the P4 was ok after previous issues. I was wrong.
2018-10-10
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solentlife
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-10 09:36
What you say is true. Some may put it higher which increases the safety even more.  At that point, I was trying to come home. Which I estimate, I would have landed in the mid 20's. In my estimation, with the tail winds, I was in good shape. Now learning on the other forum, It was not a battery issue. The P4 just decided to land.
I flew it thinking the P4 was ok after previous issues. I was wrong.

I too have been victim of autoland and not being able to influence the point of landing. But that was a P3S - which has more limited action you supposedly can take.

The P3A and P say you can slow the rate of descent and move horizontally to land at a point you decide ... which I have no intention to test !!

The P3S says you can cancel the Autoland when it first appears ... you have a few seconds and then its locked in ... and you are supposed to be able to direct it to land where you think better within a short distance of its vertical point ... reducing descent is not listed as with Adv  and Pro .... Well judging by my P3S - nothing affected its decision to land vertically .. never altered its descent one bit. Straight into the river.

So you can understand I have total sympathy with your case.

In your flight - I have to be honest and say - it would have been a two battery flight in my hands. For the reasons I gave in previous post.

Nigel
2018-10-10
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Goldenseal
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solentlife Posted at 2018-10-10 10:38
I too have been victim of autoland and not being able to influence the point of landing. But that was a P3S - which has more limited action you supposedly can take.

The P3A and P say you can slow the rate of descent and move horizontally to land at a point you decide ... which I have no intention to test !!

Thanks, I appreciate and respect everything you have to say.
2018-10-10
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RedHotPoker
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-10 10:55
Thanks, I appreciate and respect everything you have to say.

That was nice to read. Admirable.

I would appreciate seeing much more of that attitude, with respect shown around here.

All though 99.999% of Us are alive with dignity.


Did you watch any of the videos I shared with you? No comment. Haha
Yeah I know.


RedHotPoker


2018-10-10
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Goldenseal
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RedHotPoker Posted at 2018-10-10 11:29
That was nice to read. Admirable.

I would appreciate seeing much more of that attitude, with respect shown around here.

Sorry, I haven't had time to watch the videos. The pictures seem a little hard to believe.
2018-10-10
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RedHotPoker
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Goldenseal Posted at 2018-10-10 14:27
Sorry, I haven't had time to watch the videos. The pictures seem a little hard to believe.

Yes, take your time, they are a few minutes each...

617F4163-AAE2-4A24-868F-8B67462F7E49.jpeg

Ok, carry on!!



RedHotPoker
2018-10-10
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Bashy
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solentlife Posted at 2018-10-10 09:25
Just to add to anothers comment about landing out ... I am one of those who likes to be on the ground when 30% battery ... that then means a) I am safe level ... b) I can store the batterys straight off.

Ok - flying in canyons / ridges / varying geo terrain. You may be standing in relatively good air, but away where you cannot detect may be subject to significant up / down / side drafts that will cause the Flight Controller to demand higher power to maintain hover / flight you command. You think all is fine because your air space is good ... the AC's air space may be causing all sorts of demands ... so a 29% battery level could in fact be determined to be low enough level to instigate warnings etc. Personally I would be flying extremely cautiously in such areas and in fact returning home on higher level of battery than usual. Better to plug in a fresh battery and go back to last point to get that extra shot etc.

Here, Here re 30%, i deffo like to be on the ground or back over/around the take off point by then, its sensible practise

I didnt know that it could be possible to auto land at such high battery % thanks, something to be aware of now
2018-10-10
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solentlife
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The autoland kicks in when Controller determines that battery amount left is just sufficient to do the job ... it is NOT decided by just the 10% or whatever you set via the app. The 10% is actually the arbitrary level that autoland will be already in action.

The level of battery needed is determined by :

Altitude
External effects on the AC causing higher power draw

Combination of the two can easily be higher than 10% setting.

Nigel
2018-10-10
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