One thing that really holds back the Inspire is the video bitrates. Given that the Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera can record to Prores and even Raw at 1080 to certain SD cards, it would be welcome to see DJI increase the bitrates on the Inspire.

For example 100Mb/s for 4K footage. However this may not be within the bandwidth capabilty of the processor. But it would at least be good to see 60Mb/s for 1080 modes like the Hero4. This would drastically increase the quality, especially since it appears that DJI are using CBR compression. 1080 at 25p appears to be recording at 25Mb/s, which in this day and age is rather pitiful when even consumer camcorders will record at 50Mb/s for 1080 modes now.

If DJI could release an upgraded "pro" version of the camera (which is why I assume they made the camera detachable?) with the option for much higher bitrate recording (preferably in 10-bit 422 Prores or equivilent, or even 10-bit 422 MPEG in a similar vein to AVC Intra)  that would be grand. I know it's probably a pipe dream, but thought I'd mention it all the same.

4K in prores might be a bit of a stretch for an SD card, but I would much rather have extremely high quality 1080 footage than highly compressed 4K footage that is full of banding and artefacting. Since the Inspire is aimed more at the professional end of things, steps should be tken to improve the recording capabilities.

I checked the transfer rate on mine at 1080p60 and got close to 60mbps.  That is about what the GoPro does as well.  I have a BMPC, it is difficult to compare a micro 4/3 sensor to the Sony, especially since it costs 3-4x the price of the Inspire camera with lens.

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-6-3 03:10
I checked the transfer rate on mine at 1080p60 and got close to 60mbps.  That is about what the GoPr ...

I think you added to SimonMW s argument to have a second pro version of the camera.

I agree, since I need only 2K for a professional cinema release I would rather prefer solid 2K or 1080 than a thin 4K resolution!

The advantage of 4K is to be able to zoom in, but this is not seriously possible with the current bit rate. But I understand DJI: 4K sells better, I don't know why... All Blockbuster cinema is in 2K!

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-6-3 03:10
I have a BMPC, it is difficult to compare a micro 4/3 sensor to the Sony, especially since it costs 3-4x the price of the Inspire camera with lens.

In fairness though most of the complaints aren't about the sensor.  I'm actually fine with the sensor on this camera for the kinds of projects we do.  The real problem is with the high compression ratio - high enough that you can actually see the pulsing between keyframes.  THAT is what needs to be fixed before worrying about other sensors, lens systems, etc.  Would I love to see a big sensor with adjustable iris?  Sure.  But I would be VERY HAPPY with the current sensor and a high enough bitrate that I didn't see compression artifacts in the camera originals.

PeteGould Posted at 2015-6-3 05:57
In fairness though most of the complaints aren't about the sensor.  I'm actually fine with the sens ...

Ditto Ditto Ditto

Tahoe_Ed Posted at 2015-6-3 03:10
I checked the transfer rate on mine at 1080p60 and got close to 60mbps.  That is about what the GoPr ...

Wait, are you saying that the data rate on 1080/60 is 60mbps?

That's not what I get when I open a 1080/60 file in Quicktime. It's just shy of 40mbps. 3840/30 is coming in at 60mbps.

I'd love to have 1080/60 at 60mbps.

I get the same,  1080 @ 60fps =  39955 kb/s

Although it does vary between 37 and 42Mbs.   60Mbs would be an improvement and of course 100Mbs for 4K is pretty much a must. 60Mbs is no good for professional use and falls apart if cropping or grading properly.

You almost had Gopro, DJI ... almost ... hopefully you can bump things up via a firmware update

In fairness though most of the complaints aren't about the sensor.

Exactly, the sensor is fine. What holds the Inspire back is the compression. I should note though that not all compressors are alike, so bitrate numbers do not tell the whole story. At a certain point adding higher daterates actually starts to be a problem.

That said, we do need another version of this camera with higher bitrates and preferably a 10-bit Prores option at least. Could we have a real iris? I don't see why not since the iPhone 6 has one. Having a real iris would allow total control over the exposure, ISO, and shutter speed. Although on such a small chip diffraction would start to show at relatively large apertures.

SimonMW Posted at 2015-6-4 16:54
Exactly, the sensor is fine. What holds the Inspire back is the compression. I should note though t ...

Talking about high bitrates and eventual problems, at this point, is just beside the point. Use the datarate in the right way, correct settings in encoding algorithm and you will get the most out of the product. We are talking about real time encoding here which gives no room for storage optimisations or advanced encoding features. Just give the encoder what it needs to generate a clean image without the horrible artefacts it produces now. Bitrate is one part of the problem, encoding settings is another.

I just wonder who within DJI R&D that approved the image quality settings for the video. Seems that person might have been partially blind or just didn't care. I did another test run today at 4K 30fps, perfect sunny weather, and the details look like shit, YES compressed, macropblocking, posterised time SHIT. Im so disappointed! The bird can fly, no doubt, but can it film? I would say my old iPhone 4s is cleaner and better looking.

GET REAL DJI!
FIX THIS, REPLY, COMMUNICATE, SAY SOMETHING. PLEASE!
IM YOUR CUSTOMER, YOU HAVE MY MONEY!


/m

Editart Posted at 2015-6-5 05:17
Talking about high bitrates and eventual problems, at this point, is just beside the point. Use the ...

I just wonder who within DJI R&D that approved the image quality settings for the video.

Give them a chance. At the moment the king of real time compression in cameras is Sony. They started using variable bitrate in their EX line in 2007 and it produced an incredible picture for such a low bitrate of 35Mb/s. These days they are even better. But they have a lot of experience in that field.

The Inspire is using a Sony chip, and maybe they could use that relationship to leverage the use of some of the Sony codecs like JVC have. Maybe implement their XAVC codec technology.

DJI were UAV manufacturer. They are still only a few years old, yet now they are making their own cameras. The quality from the Inspire isn't perfect by any stretch, but if we look at how far they have come since the first Vision camera they are making fast progress. They just need to learn and implement things better from a codec and compression point of view.

Obviously it needs a commitment in that area from them and we will never know publicly if that is the case. The proof will be in the product releases.

Editart Posted at 2015-6-5 05:17
Talking about high bitrates and eventual problems, at this point, is just beside the point. Use the ...

Editart, what is your pathway for assessing the image? I ask because a) H.264.mov files cause difficulties in many an edit system & b) you live in Sweden which is a PAL 25fps country - so your edit system, monitors etc all work natively in 25fps yet you are shooting in a multiple of 30fps. Why? At the moment I'm not confident that the camera is the source of all your issues.

SimonMW Posted at 2015-6-5 05:49
Give them a chance. At the moment the king of real time compression in cameras is Sony. They sta ...

Not sure I would agree with Sony being the King, ever used an Arri Alexa? XAVC is interesting but far from universal and the cards for the Sony FS7 are heavy & very expensive. And that really is the camera output conundrum in a nutshell. Less compression & higher bitrates = rapid weight & cost gains.

Baldrick Posted at 2015-6-5 08:30
Editart, what is your pathway for assessing the image? I ask because a) H.264.mov files cause diff ...

Good question. Well first of all, when outdoors I do shoot 30fps more frequently because the slight slomo effect you get when interpreting footage at 25fps, I think looks good. A softer feeling in my opinion. I recently shot some footage indoors in a factory at 25fps to be able to sync to the flourecent lights at any shutter speed. So, for me, it is sometimes a choice of style and sometimes a limitation due to the artificial light in the location. I try not to not think In terms of TV systems, rather think what do I want the footage to be and how do I want It to look. But sure, If your intentions is to portray reality and are recording 25fps for 30fps TV system, you might be in for a wonderful conversion challenge.

H264 is not rocket science, small hardware H264 encoders exist in most digital equipment today , smartphones, action cameras and other small units. This is not a big thing really but DJI did not do their homework with the settings in the camera, they messed it up. Im OK with that, but what I am not OK with Is the complete silence from them, ignoring the problem and still selling the unit as their aerial flagship so I can create the unforgettable.

The argument that they are only making quads, not cameras Is not holding up. Look at the marketing campaign for the Inspire 1, what does it say?

-We have built a great flying machine, awesome in almost every aspect. Though we had to make the camera interchangeable because right now, ehhh, it sucks. But hey, we only build quads, not cameras.  Please go and by It now anyway, we might fix the camera later, just might.

Im still hoping for a firmware tweak, fixing this. DJI just have to realise, most of us are not interested in YouTube streaming. Just "fix" the camera and we go from there.


regards
m

Not sure I would agree with Sony being the King, ever used an Arri Alexa?

I said they were the kings of compression, not cameras. Incidentally the Alexa when it first came out used Sony SxS cards, and even now uses third party formats. I disagree with your assertion that higher bitrates lead to more bulkiness. The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera for example records 1080 DNG RAW video reliably to SD cards. But it isn't just about bitrates. A 35Mb/s compressor in a Sony camera will often produce much better results than, say, the 35Mb/s compressor in one of the GoPro's from the same period (The Hero2 with Protune upgrade).

The argument that they are only making quads, not cameras Is not holding up. Look at the marketing campaign for the Inspire 1, what does it say?

Not sure what you are trying to say. I said they WERE a manufacturer of quads and that now they make cameras, and are learning. They aren't very experienced that area and it will take time for them to get the experience and knowledge. I really wish people would read what I write instead of skip reading and putting words into my mouth.

I also have compression problem on my Phantom 3 4K footage. Sort of flashes each 8 GOP (). Because of bad codec and too low bitrate. The only solution I'm forced to use is this plugins http://www.digitalanarchy.com/Flicker/main.html

DJI ? 100Mbps experimental mode ?.........

Please sign this petition - https://www.change.org/p/dji-100 ... ntom-3-professional