depicus Posted at 12-17 10:40
Wrong
Wrong
And ?

1) You think you will get good audio with a waterproof case on? You clearly know nothing then.
2) You even went as far as saying you would use your GoPro for 20% of your action stuff, why?  For the last time, this thing is not rugged and likely will not last long only using it for action stuff, which is fine, it isn't what its meant for
3)People that know what they are doing have many tools to work with.  The OP is best suited for short daily shoots, trips, vlogs, social media, light action.

Again, I can flip it and say the same thing about you,  just because you bought it as an action camera (and still using a GoPro for stuff it can't do) doesn't mean it is what it should be used for.

hallmark007 Posted at 12-17 11:29
You keep going on about everything that will blow it out of the water, I’m not to sure why your so interested in the OP, or for that matter depicus, but I’ve heard enough, maybe footage will show what can be achieved from OP and if someone can use it for action who are we to tell him he can’t , it’s only out a few days, so very hard for any of us to say it won’t do this and it won’t do that , truth will most likely be it will shoot a lot better action than go pro in the hands of very creative people.

Regarding doing a wedding with a go pro, if the client is happy with that it’s his/hers prerogative, it’s always going to be compared to the likes of go pro7 and other cameras in its price bracket, but it will always be down to the user as to how creatively it can be used, I’m happy with that.

For action? Yeah it isn't as good.  Go look at comparison reviews (or read the ones I posted), people keep arguing against me about it, yet they have nothing to counter with.  There is one action video posted in here, and it was not good, it actually opened my eyes on how poor the gimbal is currently stabilizing in this setting.  Fine for most stuff still.

What is mind boggling to me is someone can say it's only out a few days so how can you know it wont work out?  Well how can you say it will?  I can at least draw on my history with gimbals and my engineering background and tell you this thing will likely not last in a rough environment (ie action sports).

I get what you are saying regarding the GoPro and wedding footage.  But it turned out terrible, because the GoPro is brutal for that setting (it was a Hero6 without a gimbal, no one could make that work).  And that it my point, pick the right tool for the job.  

h00pla85 Posted at 12-17 12:17
For action? Yeah it isn't as good.  Go look at comparison reviews (or read the ones I posted), people keep arguing against me about it, yet they have nothing to counter with.  There is one action video posted in here, and it was not good, it actually opened my eyes on how poor the gimbal is currently stabilizing in this setting.  Fine for most stuff still.

What is mind boggling to me is someone can say it's only out a few days so how can you know it wont work out?  Well how can you say it will?  I can at least draw on my history with gimbals and my engineering background and tell you this thing will likely not last in a rough environment (ie action sports).

When you are a lone voice then maybe, just maybe it's you that is wrong
https://www.reddit.com/r/dji/com ... reat_even_at_night/

Reading a lot of great review for the Osmo Pocket, both bad and good.  I'm still stuck on which to purchase, and this thread looks right to query, as there are discussions on both the OP and the GoPro Hero7.
The unit will be main used for family home, holiday videos, days out (zoo, parks etc) Holidays around the UK, Spain, France, so some snorkeling and walks etc...
I have read a bunch of reviews about the OP, such as the battery not able to be swapped, so if this is the case, what is the life time of the battery, so I know how long the Pocket will last in the life time of owning it.
Also, I have read about its low light is ok, is this something that can be fixed with firmware updates.  Also what about the focus issues that some reviewers state, such as the back ground around items being out of focus... I wold like for the pocket to be focus all over while filming or taking a picture, similar to the GoPro Hero7, but also when focus on a person etc can it be sorted for the focus on background not to be so poor... are these focus issues fixable with again firmware update...  what about zoom, digital of course, is this something that can be fixed with firmware...  the last is the water proofing, I see there is a case for the Pocket is coming, when is this, and has any DJI official videos been released of this, as the water proof is important especially living in the UK.. but also for snorkeling...
All the above are selling points to be in which to purchase, the DJI Osmo Pocket or GoPro Hero 7....again this is not for professional use, it is for family home videos, like this xmas when we film the family opening gifts....I will of course edit videos later for home use...and to share with family...so please some good recommendations and hopefuly DJI can answer some questions and someone can sell me on which to go for in the end...

depicus Posted at 12-18 07:18
When you are a lone voice then maybe, just maybe it's you that is wrong
https://www.reddit.com/r/dji/comments/a6uzsf/osmo_pocket_on_my_helmet_looks_great_even_at_night/

Lone wolf?
There are the same amount of people that agree with me in this thread
The first 5 comparison reviews when you search on Google, also agree with me, which i posted.

Your points so far are:

-You are using it for action, with no idea how it will work out
-You posting a bad snowboarding video, that proves my point that it has a hard time stabilizing
-A video that shows a comparison when a guy is on rollerblades where there is not much to stabilize, not really an action shot
-A night time video that looks bad and is noisy AF? They both suck at low light and i wouldnt use either of them.  the sensor is barely bigger than a cell phone FFS.

Please show me some reviews that say the Osmo Pocket is better for action...

dragonuck Posted at 12-18 07:57
Reading a lot of great review for the Osmo Pocket, both bad and good.  I'm still stuck on which to purchase, and this thread looks right to query, as there are discussions on both the OP and the GoPro Hero7.
The unit will be main used for family home, holiday videos, days out (zoo, parks etc) Holidays around the UK, Spain, France, so some snorkeling and walks etc...
I have read a bunch of reviews about the OP, such as the battery not able to be swapped, so if this is the case, what is the life time of the battery, so I know how long the Pocket will last in the life time of owning it.

Battery is built-in.  Right now they are estimating i think 140 min at 1080/30fps.  I haven't seen numbers for say 4k/60 which would be under 2 hours.

Battery lifetime depends on a lot.  Proper charging and storing.  With all batteries it will drop over time.

Low light will always be poor with a pocket camera, the sensor size is just too small, barely bigger than a cell phone.  firmware can help a bit with how it reduces the noise but it can only help so much.

Focus issues - i would wait and see, it is a fixed lense and they can likely fix it though, but if it is for an upcoming trip- maybe not in time.  

You can buy a case for it for waterproofing.   You lose the ability to charge the device, change some settings, and will have bad audio with it on, which for snorkelling would not really matter, but for a hike in the rain it will.

For what you are doing I would probably get the Osmo, if you strictly want video camera.  Maybe even consider just getting a small gimbal for a phone if it will not be used much.  Cell phones are nearly on par (and likely better in the next year or 2) than both of them

h00pla85 Posted at 12-18 09:15
Battery is built-in.  Right now they are estimating i think 140 min at 1080/30fps.  I haven't seen numbers for say 4k/60 which would be under 2 hours.

Battery lifetime depends on a lot.  Proper charging and storing.  With all batteries it will drop over time.

Cheers h00pla85... I agree with much of what you say...  I think I will hold off till the new year and see how this progresses, could be GoPro launch something new ... the majority of the filming and pics will be during nice days out, not sporting, maybe some biking next summer, never during the rain, my daughter has a heart condition.  I also agree on mobiles, maybe even a gimbal for that could do, just not sure on which ... again thank you

El Diablo Posted at 12-19 00:25
Dji will not kill GoPro, Yi will do that. Except if you want to talk drones, then it did already...

Yi very well could.  I was actually planning to get one before my friend was getting rid of his Hero 6 for basically the same price (he was using it for family stuff ).  Not much difference between that generation, Hero6 was slightly better but not for that price point.  

I think the Hero7 made the gap bigger with their EIS though, but nothing is stopping Yi from coming out with a comparable EIS at a better price point.  But Yi is an action camera, and if someone wanted to argue between the two they would have a much better case.

El Diablo Posted at 12-19 05:49
I agree. I do believe the Hero / Yi are geared toward a harder use. I've been using action cams since the original Hero lol
Also the 7 is indeed one step ahead than the rest but I am sure Yi will hit back and hard... I switched to Yi after Google switched to Yi ;)

Thank you for the sensible response.

People act like I am insane because I think the GoPro is better for only Action and think they are are geared towards different things.  I agree the Osmo will work well for light action stuff and is much better in every other non-action setting, but if you are only buying a camera for action, I would not get the pocket (again depends what action means to you).

People can use it for hardcore stuff all they want, doesn't mean you should or it is suited for it, it's like shooting a wedding with a Hero6 without a gimbal   , I have seen it and actually had my gimbal in the car and was going to offer it to them to use but my wife said to mind my own business.

h00pla85 Posted at 12-18 09:15
Battery is built-in.  Right now they are estimating i think 140 min at 1080/30fps.  I haven't seen numbers for say 4k/60 which would be under 2 hours.

Battery lifetime depends on a lot.  Proper charging and storing.  With all batteries it will drop over time.

Battery time for 4K 60 on both Osmo Pocket and go pro 7,

hallmark007 Posted at 12-19 06:14
Battery time for 4K 60 on both Osmo Pocket and go pro 7,
https://youtu.be/jqyfwOCnjFw

Thank you for the numbers.

Not sure what the point is for comparing battery life of a built-in vs replaceable.

File size is not surprising.  Sorta mixed on the GoPro using a newer file format, better compression but some users need to convert on computer because of an older computer

El Diablo Posted at 12-19 05:49
I agree. I do believe the Hero / Yi are geared toward a harder use. I've been using action cams since the original Hero lol
Also the 7 is indeed one step ahead than the rest but I am sure Yi will hit back and hard... I switched to Yi after Google switched to Yi ;)

Tried to edit my post but it timed out.

Should be good for diving but I am interested in footage.  The case from DJI looks like it would need to be held at a certain orientation to keep the case out of the footage (not really an issue handheld but depends how it is mounted).  Hopefully a third party makes a dome type case

h00pla85 Posted at 12-19 06:40
Thank you for the numbers.

Not sure what the point is for comparing battery life of a built-in vs replaceable.

I think if you think in terms of how long you can continuously use these small format cameras for and I don’t beleive many will use these for more than 30 minutes without stopping , few will use for an hour or more, so difference is do you carry extra batteries or power pack , I have just charged fully using a Mavic Air battery, Osmo was at 10% it drained MavAir battery by less than 30% which will give 3 full charges to Osmo, with a Mavic Pro battery I would think you would get 4 charges.
It took 31 minutes to reach 60% charge using MavAir battery , so pretty quick.

So while you can’t compare , it easy to see that small problems like fixed battery can be overcome quite easily.

hallmark007 Posted at 12-19 07:01
I think if you think in terms of how long you can continuously use these small format cameras for and I don’t beleive many will use these for more than 30 minutes without stopping , few will use for an hour or more, so difference is do you carry extra batteries or power pack , I have just charged fully using a Mavic Air battery, Osmo was at 10% it drained MavAir battery by less than 30% which will give 3 full charges to Osmo, with a Mavic Pro battery I would think you would get 4 charges.
It took 31 minutes to reach 60% charge using MavAir battery , so pretty quick.

Never meant to imply it was an issue for most things or there isn;t a remedy for most situations. Sorry for going off topic.  My points were mainly directed towards its use as an action camera.

This thing is all about portability, convenience, etc. why go through such great lengths and get such impressive results, and then not do something so simple as making a replaceable battery. Almost all cameras have replaceable batteries for a reason.

It is the same for my drone - I have 3 batteries, so i dont have to wait for it to charge.  

If I had the option of a drone with a built-in battery that lasted longer, or a drone with small batteries that were replaceable, Id take replaceable.

For my daily shooter, if it had a built-in battery, I wouldn't have it.
For my action camera, if it had a built-in battery, I wouldn't have it

Most people do not take as much video as me, and for them this is great.  For people that already have a bunch of gear, this is also a great addition.  If it is the only camera you would have... it depends what your needs are.  No zoom, small sensor, built-in battery, not ideal for some stuff, especially as a primary.



Not that I agree with all of it,  I would rather buy a used mirrorless camera if I had nothing at all.  Mine fits in my pocket with a pancake lens on - sure it isn't as tiny, but the results are much better.

h00pla85 Posted at 12-18 09:03
Lone wolf?
There are the same amount of people that agree with me in this thread
The first 5 comparison reviews when you search on Google, also agree with me, which i posted.

I didn't say it was better but that it was as good in 80% of the action cam scenarios and the gimbal will make for a better, more stable shot.

I could show you an Oscar winning sports video and you'd still have something to say about it. I mean really listen to yourself. Neither camera is perfect but it's hard to take you seriously when you're shown comparisons yet choose to ignore because it's not an "action shot" and I'm sorry but I didn't know we weren't allowed to use an action cam in the dark. In fact I'm beginning to think you don't understand what an action camera really is.

depicus Posted at 12-19 13:47
I didn't say it was better but that it was as good in 80% of the action cam scenarios and the gimbal will make for a better, more stable shot.

I could show you an Oscar winning sports video and you'd still have something to say about it. I mean really listen to yourself. Neither camera is perfect but it's hard to take you seriously when you're shown comparisons yet choose to ignore because it's not an "action shot" and I'm sorry but I didn't know we weren't allowed to use an action cam in the dark. In fact I'm beginning to think you don't understand what an action camera really is.

You actually said
"70% of what the GoPro can do the Pocket seems to be able to do but slightly better. There are very few times the GoPro would be any better, running or riding in the rain I'll stick with the GoPro but otherwise I'm happy with the Pocket. And as an added bonus panoramic photos, raw images, flat video profiles to shoot log I hear are coming and tracking. "

You can shoot in flat video and raw btw on the GoPro

WTF is 70% of what a GoPro can do but better. The biggest thing with an action cam is that it works no matter what you throw at it.  If the pocket can't do that it isn;t doing 70% of anything better in this setting.  So the video on the pocket is better when you are mountain biking and then you fall and your gimbal is toast?  

Your next quote

"I think what you meant is you think they are completely different use cases, I'll carry on using it for my action sports."

Meanwhile you never used it.  So how are you carrying on using it? You are the one confused on what the pocket can and cannot do.  Every review I posted states they are in a seperate category, different use cases, etc.  I can use my GX9 for action sports too and would smoke both in quality, doesnt mean that is what it should be used for

You are right neither camera is perfect. One is the best at one thing, Action which is what it was made for.  The other is best at a few things, which is what it was made for.  It is the reason why they are the best at what they do AND IT IS BECAUSE IT IS WHAT THEY ARE MEANT FOR

You showed ONE comparison video that was on roller blades, the other two were OP only and both were bad.  If you think the snowboarding video and that night time motorcycle video was good quality then this discussion is over.  Those actually shows some of the weaknesses of the OP - gimbal underpowered for action stuff (wind keeps it from being stable)

I can show you 1000's of great videos of non action stuff that was filmed on the GoPro, would that make it better than the OP?

I showed you 5 reviews that were DIRECT COMPARISONS - not one said to get the pocket for action, and they all said they are basically cameras in 2 categories.  AND YOU ARE IGNORING ALL OF THEM

depicus Posted at 12-19 13:47
I didn't say it was better but that it was as good in 80% of the action cam scenarios and the gimbal will make for a better, more stable shot.

I could show you an Oscar winning sports video and you'd still have something to say about it. I mean really listen to yourself. Neither camera is perfect but it's hard to take you seriously when you're shown comparisons yet choose to ignore because it's not an "action shot" and I'm sorry but I didn't know we weren't allowed to use an action cam in the dark. In fact I'm beginning to think you don't understand what an action camera really is.

Here watch some videos of what happens with mild bumps on a road





   go to 17:16 when he switches from helmet to handlebar mount


People who filmed it said this
"I can take this only with this small size, is not it good for something when it is bumpy"
"There is no fix , as focusing lens constantly gets shifted out of place , coursing this refocusing issue , I have tried all possible scenarios , settings , issue persist . Only when i take in to  my hand issue goes away as my hand absorbs  all the bumps . Like i said , gimbal performs perfectly and if it had fixed focus then , this video would not exist . Most reviews are using purely in hand walking or light jogging and I do NOT believe in DJI advert , and think is fake where is set up on dog , unless it was prototype with possible fixed focus ."
"I tested my osmo pocket and had the same results. My Rylo and GP7 perform very well mounted on a bike.""NOT REALLY FOR ACTION CAMERA REPLACEMENT. i handheld it with tilt lock mode on a bicycle sudden jerks still will somehow affects the video but could understand at night time, settings is a pain for a camera."

hallmark007 Posted at 12-19 06:14
Battery time for 4K 60 on both Osmo Pocket and go pro 7,
https://youtu.be/jqyfwOCnjFw

Great video

El Diablo Posted at 12-19 23:51
You're welcome.

Please mind that there are users with different levels of experience and expectations. The kid (no offense to him but at 46 he is a kid to me) you have beef with is loving his Osmo and in his eyes it can do the things he likes without any issues. Perhaps after a crash or two he would change his mind or, like the little Tello, it happens to be a beast and unbreakable, who knows...

Yeah I guess that is what i get for coming onto an DJI forum.  The funny thing is I am arguing the opposite side of this on GoPro   I guess there is no arguing with fanboys.  I have zero brand loyalty so I guess this is what I have to deal with

The funny thing is his was not able to activate so he actually has not used it yet.  So his only experience with it is the same as me from reviews and videos (including the ones he posted) that highlight what it is good for and what it is not.  

I will leave this last video. This highlights what makes this camera great.  There is an issue at 0:05, but otherwise pretty good video for any camera, let alone something this small. Re: the issue the creator said "yea I had more footage like that I couldn’t use. My guess is it’s a mixture of the rolling shutter and some digital stabilization. It occasionally gets some strange warbles in it with certain vibrations."



Anyways thank you for being sensible, and have a Merry Christmas and Happy New years

h00pla85 Posted at 12-19 18:26
Here watch some videos of what happens with mild bumps on a road

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHaXc1DvSVU

To be fair that doesn't look good

Mine arrived today but it was dark so not tested fully yet but managed to test a few things and am impressed with a 100 iso 1/2 exposure photo which was crystal clear in low light. Videos in pro mode in low light look good. I'll try some action this weekend with two runs Saturday and Sunday.

depicus Posted at 12-20 15:05
To be fair that doesn't look good

Mine arrived today but it was dark so not tested fully yet but managed to test a few things and am impressed with a 100 iso 1/2 exposure photo which was crystal clear in low light. Videos in pro mode in low light look good. I'll try some action this weekend with two runs Saturday and Sunday.

It will be interesting how they will fix it with firmware.  You can get rid of most of those issues. that focus pumping from the small bumps should be fixed (i actually saw some more footage that it occurs stationary with objects in the background moving) - I am not sure if it was there before the last update.  I think they tried to fix the blurry autofocus issues by increasing the sensitivity and timing, thus creating this issue.

Glad to hear it is working for you in low light - If you have time i would like to see it if you can post it.  Trust me I would love nothing better than to eat crow and this thing can do everything it is promoted to do and more.  But I can only go off of reviews, tech specs, past experiences, and think of how it everything would handle in a package this small (heat issues, durability, intensive use).

Ive had my Osmo Pocket for a week now, and a Hero 7 since its release, and here are my findings.
Image quality is so close between the Hero 7 and OP that’s its not an issue. We know the H7’s stabilisation is not good in low light, but not every video needs it, especially if the camera is stataic. Ive actual found the H7  to profduce steadier footage in good light when walking around. Ive found (and i see this in 99% of posted videos) that walking with the OP produces bouncy footage. Its just too light for the stabilisation to work effectively. With the H7 the strength of stabilisation can vary, makeing it more adaptable.
There H7 can of course do a lovely Hyperlapse, and doesnt ever suffer from focus issues.

I know each camera has its own market, and given the choice I’d take the OP over the H7, but I think the H7 has the OP beat in quite a few areas even ignoring the build and robustness.

h00pla85 Posted at 12-21 03:57
It will be interesting how they will fix it with firmware.  You can get rid of most of those issues. that focus pumping from the small bumps should be fixed (i actually saw some more footage that it occurs stationary with objects in the background moving) - I am not sure if it was there before the last update.  I think they tried to fix the blurry autofocus issues by increasing the sensitivity and timing, thus creating this issue.

Glad to hear it is working for you in low light - If you have time i would like to see it if you can post it.  Trust me I would love nothing better than to eat crow and this thing can do everything it is promoted to do and more.  But I can only go off of reviews, tech specs, past experiences, and think of how it everything would handle in a package this small (heat issues, durability, intensive use).

I'll be honest I took it to work Friday and while walking the dog around the industrial estate I recorded some footage which was great for low light but did see a bit of pumping which I'll put down to arm movement. Then took out this morning and ready thought I'd got very little usable because on the small screen it looked under exposed but turns out it wasn't as bad as I thought. This is straight out of the camera with no colour correction or exposure adjustment, just a quick edit and up to FB for the group.

I do need to learn exposure settings but otherwise very happy and the stills are very crisp which isn't always the case in lowish light with moving subjects. YouTube doesn't do it any favours so make sure you crank up to 1080p despite uploading at 4k.

depicus Posted at 12-22 12:13
I'll be honest I took it to work Friday and while walking the dog around the industrial estate I recorded some footage which was great for low light but did see a bit of pumping which I'll put down to arm movement. Then took out this morning and ready thought I'd got very little usable because on the small screen it looked under exposed but turns out it wasn't as bad as I thought. This is straight out of the camera with no colour correction or exposure adjustment, just a quick edit and up to FB for the group.

I do need to learn exposure settings but otherwise very happy and the stills are very crisp which isn't always the case in lowish light with moving subjects. YouTube doesn't do it any favours so make sure you crank up to 1080p despite uploading at 4k.

Thank you for the upload.

Was that using the follow command at any point?  I just find with this gimbal, not that its bad, but it seems to always move at a constant speed when panning, when most other gimbals will sort of accelerate/decelerate to make it a very smooth transition (if going back and forth it sort of has a jerky quality to it). Is that something that can be adjusted.  

Not a whole lot of issues considering it was a direct upload, some washout in the sky and some blurry backgrounds but overall pretty good.

My buddy should be getting his in soon and I might go visit him over the holidays - if the snow holds off we will likely do some dirt biking and hopefully he will be willing to test it out at least for a slow run.

h00pla85 Posted at 12-23 06:03
Thank you for the upload.

Was that using the follow command at any point?  I just find with this gimbal, not that its bad, but it seems to always move at a constant speed when panning, when most other gimbals will sort of accelerate/decelerate to make it a very smooth transition (if going back and forth it sort of has a jerky quality to it). Is that something that can be adjusted.  

Yes a small bit of follow towards the end but it seemed to lose focus while tracking so I cut that bit out. Haven't properly tried the different modes and panning yet and it was raining today so GoPro day

It was definitely rushed out as there isn't a lot of control in the pro section and is in the promo videos so I'm sure there will be a lot of updates and the need to come out of pro mode to take a picture is just stupid. Cannot wait for the ND filters as the sky blows out this time of year very easily. Also need to get the GoPro attachment to try on the bike.

Next run is xmas day so will be able to play again then.