MagicRide Posted at 12-20 14:59
I agree with what you say about rules, however if you watch the video from the UK the house of commons is pushing for stricter rules which seems idiotic. Unfortunately as people's fears grow so do their demands on the politicians. To be honest most politicians have no idea how a drone works and most don't care. They just want to look like their doing something.

And that is the scary part...

Even though this incident is taking place in the UK, I will bet my bottom dollar that this incident will have repercussions all over the world for UAV operators, and sadly it may make the hobby, and even the profession, much more difficult for everyone

djiuser_jBXOnzT6p8Z1 Posted at 12-20 14:58
Some in the house of lords have called for stricter regulations today. The Aviation Minister clearly looked under considerable pressure.

Agree though, I think we all will feel watched and judged next time we're flying in public view ...

I've already had encounters with people from the "drone hater" genre, so I'm anticipating much more negative encounters following this event when I go flying

hallmark007 Posted at 12-20 14:50
Rules only work for those who obey , we don’t need anymore of them , but I think main damage that will be done is public perception about drones and the backlash for hobbyists and those who operate within the rules.
Having listened to the media for most of the day, they are not demanding more rules, they are looking for airports to be more secure against these attacks, and I think this will be a wake up call to all international airports that they need to get their ass in gear to prevent this happening to them.

"Having listened to the media for most of the day, they are not demanding more rules, they are looking for airports to be more secure against these attacks, and I think this will be a wake up call to all international airports that they need to get their ass in gear to prevent this happening to them."

I suspect that would be the outcome, along with an acceleration towards registration & testing perhaps.

Latest comments posted up on SKY news article tracking this unfolding situation:

https://news.sky.com/story/chaos ... ay-closure-11586557

Karl Turner: 'I blame Chris Grayling'

Shadow aviation minister Karl Turner said the regulations around drones were not tight enough and blamed Chris Grayling for failing to act.

He told BBC2's Newsnight:

"There should be wider exclusion zones around airports - I think the law says one kilometre at the moment, it should probably be five kilometres according to the experts.

"The government should have brought this legislation forward, it's been an abject failure and I blame Chris Grayling.

"He should have been in the House of Commons today making a statement and explaining to MPs why the government has failed to bring this legislation forward."

-----

This is a prime example of ignorance... The laws aren't the problem, as obviously this pilot is violating even the 1km exclusion NFZ area, the problem is enforcement, and detection of violations, and in tracking down pilots violating ATC NFZ's...

Aardvark Posted at 12-20 15:12
"Having listened to the media for most of the day, they are not demanding more rules, they are looking for airports to be more secure against these attacks, and I think this will be a wake up call to all international airports that they need to get their ass in gear to prevent this happening to them."

I suspect that would be the outcome, along with an acceleration towards registration & testing perhaps.

The acceleration of registration and testing could be brought forward but this will only be to show government is doing something , but it won’t change anything like happened in Gatwick over the last day or so.
I don’t have a problem with registration I believe this is good for both users and general public, testing is the right way forward education is never a bad thing, but registration and testing will only work if it can be done before drone is fully activated.

I am chuckling inside a bit about a lot of talk about stricter regulations,  confirmed registrations of drones, etc., etc., much talk about the focus being on the perpetrators end, but isn't the real point here that the people who are doing this are either unafraid of any legal repercussions or something aligned with a form of domestic terrorist activity? Nothing in my opinion will dissuade such individuals. Quite simply we just need technology to drop a drone and/or technology to track the signal to it's source. Not even sure that exists (publicly) and if it does would the military want to make that known?
There will be copycats soon so I think that someone needs to put some tech out there to disable a drone on command and/or trace it's signal in some way.

Here in Australia we already have a 5 kilometre exclusion zone around airports and helipads but it did not deter one idiot last month Albury Airport Drone

The witness's said that it was a tri-copter, so obviously not a dji machine but the very next day, four people who knew that I fly a few multi-rotor machines had a dig at me!

It would not even surprise me if this was a put-up job by one of the anti-drone technology companies looking for sales.

I just hope that any perpetrators are caught and made an example of by throwing the book at them (5 years with Bubba)

hallmark007 Posted at 12-20 13:43
There have been 50 sightings of the drone, last sighting 40 minutes ago, I think it’s safe to say it’s a drone or more than one drone.

Oh, I’m not saying it’s not a drone.  I’m just saying the above video is inconclusive.   People are mostly stupid, it’s very likely a drone.

Xjet has posted a good vlog on the Gatwick situation, worth a view:

EdisonW1979 Posted at 12-20 15:10
I've already had encounters with people from the "drone hater" genre, so I'm anticipating much more negative encounters following this event when I go flying

SKY News, this morning; Discussion panel is asking for all drones to be banned in the UK.

djiuser_jBXOnzT6p8Z1 Posted at 12-20 22:51
SKY News, this morning; Discussion panel is asking for all drones to be banned in the UK.

What’s that going to do for a group of rouge criminals already not obeying their limits and laws.   No wait never mind that’s rational thinking..!!  Can’t do that when your in power..straight to banning and punishing all!

UK morning papers asking for more regulations.

I think we all can see where this is going.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 22:53
What’s that going to do for a group of rouge criminals already not obeying their limits and laws.   No wait never mind that’s rational thinking..!!  Can’t do that when your in power..straight to banning and punishing all!

Nobody will care for our hobby/profession. Public opinion will be very one sided. Pilots Association, Police, Airports and other anti drone supporters will likely use the opportunity to lobby Parliament with Public support.

Sad and I hope I am wrong.

djiuser_jBXOnzT6p8Z1 Posted at 12-20 23:17
Nobody will care for our hobby/profession. Public opinion will be very one sided. Pilots Association, Police, Airports and other anti drone supporters will likely use the opportunity to lobby Parliament with Public support.

Sad and I hope I am wrong.

we need more community leaders/drone advocates to work closer with authorities to not only draft up common sense rules/laws that arent overbearing for everyone. because if the debate is 1 sided only then going to be very grim future for law abiding citizens and make little to no difference for the criminals.

also i think given the circumstances, airports/prisons and such should have the ability to jam signals including hyperlocalized GPS/GNSS L1 and L2 carrier signals (civilian navigation) and common control frequencies under extreme measures such as this..   while this may not directly lead back to the people committing such acts, probably will be evedance and things that can be collected off the craft maybe lead back to them after it comes down from low power.. or this can at the very least cause much shorter delays while they drain the battery of these drones being jammed into place..  


another method that my GF mentioned, said reminded me if its isnt an encrypted signals between aircraft and the remote, it maybe possible to steal controls from someone with right gear...true enough if the signals are more of less "off the shelf" solution then ya wouldnt be hard to jam out the original owner and take control assuming you know the right frequency, keys, and commands which maybe possible to gather if you have antennas listening around when it approaches then using simple logic you could peice together the likelykeys and commands between RC and aircraft..  however if its being controlled over cellular or encrypted signals.... probably not wortht he effort trying to take control be better to jam it in place

djiuser_jBXOnzT6p8Z1 Posted at 12-20 23:02
UK morning papers asking for more regulations.

I think we all can see where this is going.

All to Predictable.  Known as Ratchet Effect or Boiling the Frog.
Get public to accept very minor Freedom / Right infringing policy, then come back with a new policy that infringes slightly more.  Usually sold to public as For Greater Good.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 22:53
What’s that going to do for a group of rouge criminals already not obeying their limits and laws.   No wait never mind that’s rational thinking..!!  Can’t do that when your in power..straight to banning and punishing all!

Exactly.  Like criminals give a Rats ____ about Laws to begin with.
Doesn't help that few criminals are ever punished, and if they are time behind bars is short and to soft.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 23:23
we need more community leaders/drone advocates to work closer with authorities to not only draft up common sense rules/laws that arent overbearing for everyone. because if the debate is 1 sided only then going to be very grim future for law abiding citizens and make little to no difference for the criminals.

also i think given the circumstances, airports/prisons and such should have the ability to jam signals including hyperlocalized GPS/GNSS L1 and L2 carrier signals (civilian navigation) and common control frequencies under extreme measures such as this..   while this may not directly lead back to the people committing such acts, probably will be evedance and things that can be collected off the craft maybe lead back to them after it comes down from low power.. or this can at the very least cause much shorter delays while they drain the battery of these drones being jammed into place..  

Agree. I solely blame Authorities, airports etcfor having sat on their idle arses so long. Heads should roll for thei lack of foresight.

Still, we now need industry leaders, such as DJI to go public here in the UK to explain to the public how advanced good drones are with regards to no fly zones, gps usage etc etc.

djiuser_jBXOnzT6p8Z1 Posted at 12-21 00:23
Agree. I solely blame Authorities, airports etcfor having sat on their idle arses so long. Heads should roll for thei lack of foresight.

Still, we now need industry leaders, such as DJI to go public here in the UK to explain to the public how advanced good drones are with regards to no fly zones, gps usage etc etc.

maybe but i'd rather have a 3rd party advocate group whose hand isn't tin the "cookie jar"  so to speak. they dont have financial incentives to go either way.. they just want whats right

The police and authorities are clearly not equipped to enforce the drone laws already in place. Adding more laws is completely moronic, you can extend the NFZ from 1km to 5km, they have still broken the same law!!! And banning all drones? I hope the media realises that applies to them too, every time they want aerial footage they'll need to spend thousands on helicopters and all the drone-based companies they use will go bust.

Aside from all of that, if all drones were illegal tomorrow, they are still around, if I were a campaign group intent on doing this does a new law stop me powering up my drone and flying into an airport? No, it's enforcement we need, not more legislation.

ataraxia Posted at 12-21 01:32
The police and authorities are clearly not equipped to enforce the drone laws already in place. Adding more laws is completely moronic, you can extend the NFZ from 1km to 5km, they have still broken the same law!!! And banning all drones? I hope the media realises that applies to them too, every time they want aerial footage they'll need to spend thousands on helicopters and all the drone-based companies they use will go bust.

Aside from all of that, if all drones were illegal tomorrow, they are still around, if I were a campaign group intent on doing this does a new law stop me powering up my drone and flying into an airport? No, it's enforcement we need, not more legislation.

While it’s clear, police and authorities were not geared up for such attacks, I believe this is the same for all international airports, but I suspect we will see great change in security surrounding drones and airports.
Always something has to happen before authorities will spend money defending airports, we seen massive changes in security policy after 9/11, and I suspect that we will see a worldwide security operation at all major airports.
I think that dji will come out ofthis smelling of roses, they had the foresight and the technology to keep their drones from infringing on airports, except for those that have been hacked, I think dji should continue to enhance their NFZ geo in their drones and I expect other drone manufacturers will have to follow suit.
New laws will not stop idiots doing this, new laws and rules are only for those who already fly within the Law.
The thing I read most from those who are against NFZ & GEO is how restricted it is, but most of the airspace everywhere is open to drone users, but you need to be licensed and you need to get SOP to use some space, this is not as difficult as some might portray, I’ve looked at part 107 for the US anyone with half a brain will pass this, this then gives you so many options of where you can fly and it’s there for everyone to use.
In Ireland it’s illegal to fly within 10k of a major airport , just last week I applied to the IAA with a one page risk assessment standard form to fly for a job 2k from airport, I received permission from IAA within 24 hours, and then proceeded to get NFZ removed from dji, this took 10 minutes, all told it was less than an hours work on my part, and ATC knew what time I would be flying at what time I would be finished, this took 1 phone call.

No need to change the laws or rules unless they are ill thought out rules and let the law take care of the idiots.

hallmark007 Posted at 12-21 03:18
While it’s clear, police and authorities were not geared up for such attacks, I believe this is the same for all international airports, but I suspect we will see great change in security surrounding drones and airports.
Always something has to happen before authorities will spend money defending airports, we seen massive changes in security policy after 9/11, and I suspect that we will see a worldwide security operation at all major airports.
I think that dji will come out ofthis smelling of roses, they had the foresight and the technology to keep their drones from infringing on airports, except for those that have been hacked, I think dji should continue to enhance their NFZ geo in their drones and I expect other drone manufacturers will have to follow suit.

Agreed, DJI can come out of this well if they play it correctly and actively assist authorities in stopping rogue drones, whether they be DJI-manufactured or not (we still don't know what it is!)

As long as we don't knee-jerk and hype our way to draconian laws, we can end up with a decent and comprehensive system that allows for sensible drone use and has contingencies for those who decide to break the law.

This was inevitable and we should have seen this coming based on all the childish whining advocating the removal of all restrictions on NFZ's. Especially on this forum. I'm seriously considering parking my drones rather than suffer the increased public outrage that is sure to follow this incident. Even though this happened in the UK, the  fallout is sure to be propagated worldwide. Sad because I really enjoyed the photographic opportunities drones offered but it's just not worth the backlash!

ghostrdr Posted at 12-21 04:52
This was inevitable and we should have seen this coming based on all the childish whining advocating the removal of all restrictions on NFZ's. Especially on this forum. I'm seriously considering parking my drones rather than suffer the increased public outrage that is sure to follow this incident. Even though this happened in the UK, the  fallout is sure to be propagated worldwide. Sad because I really enjoyed the photographic opportunities drones offered but it's just not worth the backlash!

depending what drones you got maybe ill buy them

ghostrdr Posted at 12-21 04:52
This was inevitable and we should have seen this coming based on all the childish whining advocating the removal of all restrictions on NFZ's. Especially on this forum. I'm seriously considering parking my drones rather than suffer the increased public outrage that is sure to follow this incident. Even though this happened in the UK, the  fallout is sure to be propagated worldwide. Sad because I really enjoyed the photographic opportunities drones offered but it's just not worth the backlash!

No chance, I'm not letting some moronic pilots or activists or whatever the hell they are dictate that I can't use my drone. I am a responsible drone owner, I follow the law and I'm very careful with the use of my drone bearing the public in mind. People calling for NFZs to be removed should be banned from using drones and the posts kicked off this forum, especially as DJI has put in extensive measures to ensure drones don't fly into them. Anybody who hacks a drone to get around this should be treated as a criminal before it even leaves the ground.

ataraxia Posted at 12-21 05:08
No chance, I'm not letting some moronic pilots or activists or whatever the hell they are dictate that I can't use my drone. I am a responsible drone owner, I follow the law and I'm very careful with the use of my drone bearing the public in mind. People calling for NFZs to be removed should be banned from using drones and the posts kicked off this forum, especially as DJI has put in extensive measures to ensure drones don't fly into them. Anybody who hacks a drone to get around this should be treated as a criminal before it even leaves the ground.

you express that this person or people causing this does not represent you or this, which is fair and true enough.  however you want to cull the herd of people who maybe doing this professionally or recreationally and dislike overbearing nonsense NFZ restrictions that happen sometimes and get in the way when they arent being unsafe, and treat them like criminals.. how do you know this was a DJI aircraft not one of the 100s of other brands from around the world, or completely custom made?   if you dont like people's opinions on the matter, attacking them and removing them wont change it, it only makes it worse...

add to this that in the end, the very definition of a criminal, means they already breaking the law, so imposing more laws is only dragging more innocent people's faces through the dirt and mud... but changes almost nothing for these people who are already breaking established laws in the UK..

also why are they so incapable of capturing it or taking it down, chasing it, or jammign it?  why is it so ellusive yet been seen for multiple hours and flying around a very high volume airport for a good while..  and yet we, as a diverse group of people in the drone community as the ones who are sh*t according to the media..?   

There are not 100's of brands of drones capable of shutting down an airport like Gatwick. The fact that the perp has still not been identified indicates that the drone was launched from some distance from the airport which increases the likelihood that it was a DJI. Whether or not a pilot is unsafe is in the eyes of the beholder. Are we willing to wait until a civilian airliner is downed by a pilot who felt the rules were too oppressive to finally say "oops..my bad"? It's too easy for irresponsible or dangerous people to gain access to this technology!

ghostrdr Posted at 12-21 04:52
This was inevitable and we should have seen this coming based on all the childish whining advocating the removal of all restrictions on NFZ's. Especially on this forum. I'm seriously considering parking my drones rather than suffer the increased public outrage that is sure to follow this incident. Even though this happened in the UK, the  fallout is sure to be propagated worldwide. Sad because I really enjoyed the photographic opportunities drones offered but it's just not worth the backlash!

I fully agree with you, this will be down to public perception and out of this will come no good for those who treat this hobby and profession in a manner that complies with the rules and the law, of which is the majority of drone users.
Those who continue to whinge about NFZs are idiots and think they should have the freedom to fly how and where they like,  with not a single thought about the potential danger, those who brag about breaking the laws look for plaudits for their escapades are idiots and always will be idiots. Yes some NFZS are not perfect but the have improved greatly since they have been released.
Maybe it’s time for those who love this hobby for what it is, and those who respect the danger and privacy around flying drones stick together and call out the idiots for what they are.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-20 22:53
What’s that going to do for a group of rouge criminals already not obeying their limits and laws.   No wait never mind that’s rational thinking..!!  Can’t do that when your in power..straight to banning and punishing all!

yea exactly, just like the people that think taking guns away from everyone will solve a problem. Criminals dont care if something is illegal. The person is to blame.

ghostrdr Posted at 12-21 05:43
There are not 100's of brands of drones capable of shutting down an airport like Gatwick. The fact that the perp has still not been identified indicates that the drone was launched from some distance from the airport which increases the likelihood that it was a DJI. Whether or not a pilot is unsafe is in the eyes of the beholder. Are we willing to wait until a civilian airliner is downed by a pilot who felt the rules were too oppressive to finally say "oops..my bad"? It's too easy for irresponsible or dangerous people to gain access to this technology!

alot, specially chinese brands.... and im not sure how the fact they are further away means its more likely DJi. no offense i think maybe your experience is a bit more limited with drones, but dji's connection systems while amazing, arent the best possible by any measure. plenty of systems that exist that use unpopulated bands, and have very highly tuned RF systems to get ranges touching on impossible to fly, like 100km. infact not uncommon fixed wing drones are fitted with these systems. that have astonishing range.     also to add to it, always possible to wire up a ras-pi 3 board with a custom drone with a 3G/4G GSM GPIO hat and control as long as have cellular connection and have crystal clear video nearly indefinitely..   if this is a custom drone, that is very very possible.  

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-21 05:57
alot, specially chinese brands.... and im not sure how the fact they are further away means its more likely DJi. no offense i think maybe your experience is a bit more limited with drones, but dji's connection systems while amazing, arent the best possible by any measure. plenty of systems that exist that use unpopulated bands, and have very highly tuned RF systems to get ranges touching on impossible to fly, like 100km. infact not uncommon fixed wing drones are fitted with these systems. that have astonishing range.     also to add to it, always possible to wire up a ras-pi 3 board with a custom drone with a 3G/4G GSM GPIO hat and control as long as have cellular connection and have crystal clear video nearly indefinitely..   if this is a custom drone, that is very very possible.

Well that makes me feel a lot better. An educated and technically proficient pilot who certainly realizes the dangers of drones invading restricted airspace, chooses to shut down a major airport for hours.

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-21 05:57
alot, specially chinese brands.... and im not sure how the fact they are further away means its more likely DJi. no offense i think maybe your experience is a bit more limited with drones, but dji's connection systems while amazing, arent the best possible by any measure. plenty of systems that exist that use unpopulated bands, and have very highly tuned RF systems to get ranges touching on impossible to fly, like 100km. infact not uncommon fixed wing drones are fitted with these systems. that have astonishing range.     also to add to it, always possible to wire up a ras-pi 3 board with a custom drone with a 3G/4G GSM GPIO hat and control as long as have cellular connection and have crystal clear video nearly indefinitely..   if this is a custom drone, that is very very possible.

There are lots of Open Source Drone control Sw out there and boards to run it on. So anyone could get a DJI airframe and run their own control system quite easily.

I think the group disrupting Gatwick were doing this on purpose and had planed it. multiple people and drones.  Therefor any legislation is not going to work. same as making murder illegal.

The other thing is unlike making guns illegal it is is easy for any one to make a drone out of unrestricted components. raspberry Pi, small electric motors, batteries.  OK in theory you could make your own firearm but realistically? and the ammunition?  

Besides the radio control model aircraft community could do the same as a drone. Actually they are the same thing other than *usually* one is fixed wing and one rotary with a camera.  

I think the basic requirements we have seen coming in of Registration,  insurance, competency test and the DJI NFZ's is going to take out 99.9% of the problems.

The other 0.1% will happen regardless even if you ban all  drones.

Gatwick reportedly down again

JAgraphics Posted at 12-21 09:20
There are lots of Open Source Drone control Sw out there and boards to run it on. So anyone could get a DJI airframe and run their own control system quite easily.

I think the group disrupting Gatwick were doing this on purpose and had planed it. multiple people and drones.  Therefor any legislation is not going to work. same as making murder illegal.

realistically, making your own drone and own gun are i would say both very trivial for their selective groups/enthusiasts..more hardcore or familar your are with what your dealing with the easier it is..    genuinely i would find building a drone of that size that would fly that stable, and fast far more challenging than me milling out a block of aluminium and steel into a functioning lower and upper receiver for example


ple.. where as im sure plenty of people here who couldn't for the life of them make a gun but they could build the very "industrial" drone that was spotted...

so ya, laws are only for the law abiding overall..  registration, insurance, testing, all that can apply that to hardcore level, but im sure ebay will still functional perfectly to buy what's needed...  

ghostrdr Posted at 12-21 07:22
Well that makes me feel a lot better. An educated and technically proficient pilot who certainly realizes the dangers of drones invading restricted airspace, chooses to shut down a major airport for hours.

its obviously intentional and this also happened last year...  whoever it or they are, knows exactly what they are doing..  they question is why and who.   

djiuser_jBXOnzT6p8Z1 Posted at 12-21 09:50
Gatwick reportedly down again

Yeah 6 O'clock news reporting a possible drone just spotted, difficult to see if a drone would be able to fly now with 'a variety of agencies on station' with anti drone equipment at hand, but you never know.

M2Wair Posted at 12-21 10:13
Yeah 6 O'clock news reporting a possible drone just spotted, difficult to see if a drone would be able to fly now with 'a variety of agencies on station' with anti drone equipment at hand, but you never know.

getting crazy at this point..if they cant deal with it this time.... they need to stop demonizing drones and the drone community and start rethinking the quality of their own people that out on the field spending money and time and effort failing to get this situation under control..

got bunch of agencies, a lot of money, and bunch of tech and a head start having spotted it as it approached...have every possible advantage if they cant deal with it this time..... its..loss of words

M2Wair Posted at 12-21 10:13
Yeah 6 O'clock news reporting a possible drone just spotted, difficult to see if a drone would be able to fly now with 'a variety of agencies on station' with anti drone equipment at hand, but you never know.

... and open once more.

Seems anyone just squeaking the 'D' word is enough to close a major airport now.

Fun times ahead

HereForTheBeer Posted at 12-21 10:19
getting crazy at this point..if they cant deal with it this time.... they need to stop demonizing drones and the drone community and start rethinking the quality of their own people that out on the field spending money and time and effort failing to get this situation under control..

got bunch of agencies, a lot of money, and bunch of tech and a head start having spotted it as it approached...have every possible advantage if they cant deal with it this time..... its..loss of words

Where do you get all the rubbish, nobody has demonized the drone community, are you making this up for fun ?

hallmark007 Posted at 12-21 11:15
Where do you get all the rubbish, nobody has demonized the drone community, are you making this up for fun ?

i really hope that you are just disagreeing with everything certain members of this community are saying and arent seriously failing to comprehend how the media is negatively portraying the drone community as a whole because of this.  because if its the other way around and your genuinely missing it, maybe bigger issues you need to deal with

hallmark007 Posted at 12-21 11:15
Where do you get all the rubbish, nobody has demonized the drone community, are you making this up for fun ?

In Canada, the Global National news broadcast did a “hit piece” on drones last night, in which they made drones sound like not just a nuisance, but a public menace:

https://globalnews.ca/video/4783819/global-national-dec-20-6

This is the full broadcast; it’s the first news story in the video, and is about 5-7 minutes long. It has a significant negative connotation.