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Prop icing ?
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Manxmann
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Just as a by-the-by:  Is propeller icing ever a concern amongst you folk that fly in cold locations ?


2019-1-3
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solentlife
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No - not on my DJI anyway and that's flying in conditions down to about -10C and also with slight rain / snow ... BUT I have had it on other models ...





But its basically on the static surfaces and in the above videos - inside the thrust tubes ...

Nigel
2019-1-3
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Manxmann
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solentlife Posted at 1-3 03:21
No - not on my DJI anyway and that's flying in conditions down to about -10C and also with slight rain / snow ... BUT I have had it on other models ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEw0oDa8R4Q

Crazy stuff - too ker,ker,  kold for me !
2019-1-3
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solentlife
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That's nowt !!



Nigel
2019-1-3
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DJI Stephen
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Hello and good day Manxmann. The Operating Temperature Range for the DJI Phantom 4 Pro is 32° to 104°F ( 0° to 40°C ). For additional reference I will be posting a link where you can find additional information with regards to the specifications of the DJI Phantom 4 Pro. Thank you.

https://www.dji.com/phantom-4-pro/info#specs

2019-1-3
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Manxmann
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DJI Stephen Posted at 1-3 09:26
Hello and good day Manxmann. The Operating Temperature Range for the DJI Phantom 4 Pro is 32° to 104°F ( 0° to 40°C ). For additional reference I will be posting a link where you can find additional information with regards to the specifications of the DJI Phantom 4 Pro. Thank you.

https://www.dji.com/phantom-4-pro/info#specs

Thanks for the info .     
2019-1-3
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DJI Stephen
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Manxmann Posted at 1-3 15:58
Thanks for the info .

You are very much welcome Manxmann. If you have any other inquiries or concern. Please feel free to post it here at DJI Forum. We are all here to help you. Happy new year.
2019-1-3
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Manxmann
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DJI Stephen Posted at 1-3 16:00
You are very much welcome Manxmann. If you have any other inquiries or concern. Please feel free to post it here at DJI Forum. We are all here to help you. Happy new year.

DJI Stephen,  I do have another concern and it to with you P4P gimbal guards.  The ones that keep cracking on the legs.
Are DJI going to improve them soon ?  It seems that a lot of operators are having the same problem.  I have now ordered PolarPro guards as I no longer have faith in DJI's
2019-1-3
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Manxmann
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DJI Stephen,  here is a link to my previously posted page on the subject of Gimbal Guards
https://forum.dji.com/thread-176337-1-1.html

Cheers
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DJI Stephen
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Manxmann Posted at 1-3 16:05
DJI Stephen,  I do have another concern and it to with you P4P gimbal guards.  The ones that keep cracking on the legs.
Are DJI going to improve them soon ?  It seems that a lot of operators are having the same problem.  I have now ordered PolarPro guards as I no longer have faith in DJI's

Thank you for the follow up inquiry Manxmann. I will forward this inquiry to our DJI R&D Team for us to check. For the latest development and updates. Please visit our official website at www.dji.com for more details. Thank you.
2019-1-3
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Bashy
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I had prop icing, was around 1C to 0C at 10m, i flew  on a clear day but there was some light fog, it was sunrise time, i sent it off but for reasons i canot remember now, i brought it back in and landed it, and it was then that i noticed icing on the props and in the legs too so it was deffo colder and humid up there. I work on the rule that every 100m in height, the temp drops 1C, I also read somewhere that for props to ice up, it does not have to be negative C, the pressure that the props cause makes them cooler, have i got that part right, i could have missred it or misunderstood it lol
2019-1-3
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Manxmann
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Bashy Posted at 1-3 20:01
I had prop icing, was around 1C to 0C at 10m, i flew  on a clear day but there was some light fog, it was sunrise time, i sent it off but for reasons i canot remember now, i brought it back in and landed it, and it was then that i noticed icing on the props and in the legs too so it was deffo colder and humid up there. I work on the rule that every 100m in height, the temp drops 1C, I also read somewhere that for props to ice up, it does not have to be negative C, the pressure that the props cause makes them cooler, have i got that part right, i could have missred it or misunderstood it lol

Standard Adiabatic Lapse Rate is 2C per 1000ft,  so you are not far off the mark.
If the props were icing -- had you noticed a change in performance ?  The aerodynamic of the prop was changed because of a change in profile plus there would have been some small increase in weight.
2019-1-4
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Manxmann
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Bashy Posted at 1-3 20:01
I had prop icing, was around 1C to 0C at 10m, i flew  on a clear day but there was some light fog, it was sunrise time, i sent it off but for reasons i canot remember now, i brought it back in and landed it, and it was then that i noticed icing on the props and in the legs too so it was deffo colder and humid up there. I work on the rule that every 100m in height, the temp drops 1C, I also read somewhere that for props to ice up, it does not have to be negative C, the pressure that the props cause makes them cooler, have i got that part right, i could have missred it or misunderstood it lol

oops there's more.  The prop causes a low pressure area on top  - that's why you get lift.  Low pressure  - reduce pressure you reduce temp.
If my memory serves me well - and it seldom does nowadays - the temp most likely to cause carburettor icing in light aircraft was as high as +4 - 6C .  Depends on humidity of course.
2019-1-4
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solentlife
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In recent years the standard theory of lift where air passes faster over the more rounded top surface and thereby decreases the pressure has been shown to be not entirely correct. Various other factors such as angle of attack and advancing of the aerofoil all play their part.

It has been shown in tunnel tests that the air does not necessarily meet as old diagrams show at the trailing edge ... it has now been shown that air can actually curl up and FWD over the trailing edge at certain speeds.

The Pitch and the props physical manner to 'walk' forward has been shown to be relevant in props.

Just mentioning ...

Nigel
2019-1-4
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Manxmann
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solentlife Posted at 1-4 07:54
In recent years the standard theory of lift where air passes faster over the more rounded top surface and thereby decreases the pressure has been shown to be not entirely correct. Various other factors such as angle of attack and advancing of the aerofoil all play their part.

It has been shown in tunnel tests that the air does not necessarily meet as old diagrams show at the trailing edge ... it has now been shown that air can actually curl up and FWD over the trailing edge at certain speeds.

All to do with Angle of Attack with is also partially affected by the Angle of Incidence,  but I feel the wings Chord plays the major role in general flight properties,  oh then there is drag,  Form,  Inherant & Parrasitic.
PS:  It seems we are both pilots,  or in my case,  ex-pilot !  Too old now .........  
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Bashy
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Manxmann Posted at 1-4 02:59
Standard Adiabatic Lapse Rate is 2C per 1000ft,  so you are not far off the mark.
If the props were icing -- had you noticed a change in performance ?  The aerodynamic of the prop was changed because of a change in profile plus there would have been some small increase in weight.

There was a different prop sound,  if memory serves, it wasnt as high pitched, didnt notice anything else but hen i wasnt looking for it
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Manxmann
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Very interesting as Shulzt would say.
I imagine the props were working harder - higher RPM - to achieve the desired lift ?
2019-1-5
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solentlife
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Manxmann Posted at 1-4 15:22
All to do with Angle of Attack with is also partially affected by the Angle of Incidence,  but I feel the wings Chord plays the major role in general flight properties,  oh then there is drag,  Form,  Inherant & Parrasitic.
PS:  It seems we are both pilots,  or in my case,  ex-pilot !  Too old now .........

I'm no pilot .... but propeller theory is a part of my original training as ships officer ...

Also with all the years of model flying - its a subject that raises its head so often. Over the last few years various Aeronautic studies have been released especially in light of the increased use of extremely thin wings in todays fighters ... which can approach flat plate !
Not only that but Airbus stood the civil airline design industry on its head when it designed wings for such as the A380 ... which has now crossed into other manufacturers ...

I'm just an interested amateur ...

Nigel
2019-1-5
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Manxmann
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solentlife Posted at 1-5 03:07
I'm no pilot .... but propeller theory is a part of my original training as ships officer ...

Also with all the years of model flying - its a subject that raises its head so often. Over the last few years various Aeronautic studies have been released especially in light of the increased use of extremely thin wings in todays fighters ... which can approach flat plate !

I remember years ago when we were involved in off-shore boating,  I thought I'd get a book on prop design so as to learn all about them ...............  mmmmm, I think I fell off at about the bottom of the second page !  It really is hi-brow stuff eh ?
When you think of wings and things,  forward edge slits,  slot & slats,  trailing edge bits & pieces all designed to change the physics of the wing - you think "How complicated"  and it is.  Then when I see an eagle approaching a landing on prey & watch the way it uses its' wings &  tip flight feathers,   the tips are working their proverbial butts off.  It is amazing to watch.  The control is incredible.  No wonder birds are still studied by those involved in aerodynamics - I love it !
The thin wings ?  Surely it's a lift/drag/speed equation ?   Do you see a common thread between propeller dynamics & the wing - as in lift,  drag & speed over the aero/aqua foil etc ?
Interesting stuff indeed.
2019-1-5
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Mark The Droner
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These guys didn't appreciate the seriousness of the icing problem... the decision to fly anyway didn't work out too well...



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solentlife
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One of my companys supplies De-Icing to various .....

Many people do not realise that the amount and decision to De-Ice an airplane before take-off is the Captains decision ...

It is not unusual for a Pilot to 'understate' the amount of De-Icing fluid to use. His Company has to pay for it and the service to apply.

Apologies to any Commercial Pilots here - but its fact and we see it in the volume orders we get.

Nigel
2019-1-5
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Manxmann
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Mark The Droner Posted at 1-5 08:09
These guys didn't appreciate the seriousness of the icing problem... the decision to fly anyway didn't work out too well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgpmp8SYYkw

Wow,  I had read a report on that previously,  that graphic was very well produced.
A series of circumstances leading to a disaster.  "Come into my parlour,  said the spider to the fly" !
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Manxmann
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solentlife Posted at 1-5 08:57
One of my companys supplies De-Icing to various .....

Many people do not realise that the amount and decision to De-Ice an airplane before take-off is the Captains decision ...

CASA used to mail out a publication called "The Air Safety Digest"  commonly known as "The Crash & Burn Comic"  It was a report on accidents & investigations results etc.  Made very enlightening reading as it was official & not some commercial TV production !
2019-1-5
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Manxmann
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solentlife Posted at 1-5 08:57
One of my companys supplies De-Icing to various .....

Many people do not realise that the amount and decision to De-Ice an airplane before take-off is the Captains decision ...

I could well believe that.   Ultimately,  the service is there to make money.  Getting you from A to B is just a way of doing it.

2019-1-5
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